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why i think the real definition of skill isnt a tourney result (serious topic)

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PoundSlap

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sorry guys that it took me some time to start some more serious topics. i was busy and **** but im gonna fix that probably. as the title already indicates this topic is meant to be seriously so pay attention on how you present yourself.

i was wondering what the real definition of skill in melee is. i came to the conclusion that the skill is seperated into various categories like techskill, mindgames, combos, theoretical knowledge. but i think we have the problem here. take a look at jigglypuff. you will notice that techskill is non-existent, mindgames are not so much needed because her moves usually cover more options so even combos are no combos because she hits everything.

with this mind it can be said that a jigglypuff player needs about 40% less skill to be at an even chance of winning than a characters that requires someone to be good at all categories. these 40% can also be influenced due to the matchup. lets assume the jigglypuff plays against peach (the matchup is 80:20 in jiggs favor). these 80% of the matchup will be added to the 40% so in conclusion the jiggs needs 72% less skill than the peach player in order for both having the same chance of winning. this is also why armada had so many problems against hungrybox at apex. if both needed the same amount of skill armada would have won. and as a peach armada always needs at least 10% more skill than his oppenent (if hes a higher tier = puff, fox, falco, sheik, cf, marth) because the matchup limits the real definition of skill. so if the opponent wins by two stocks with fox it means the fox had more skill that match. the 72% of puff applied to that means puff needs a three stock at least to be the better player.

another conclusion we can draw from this is that true skill cannot be read out from tourney results. yes the winner of a tourney gets some money but this doesnt mean he really is skilled. i want you to keep this in mind. i have to take armada as an example here too. he has all the the things that define the skill. he has incredible techskill, (if you watch the floatcancel nair vid you will see that they are almost frameperfect), probably the best mindgames in the world he adapts so fast and also husband said he picks up on everything player do and of course no one knows how to combo this well. theres a vid from pound4 where armada combos mango over 3 platforms and kills him. and also the stitchface combo which combines combo and mindgames and was a masterpiece.

this is how i see the skill. what do you think?
 

Amide

Smash Lord
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Lol here it goes again.

Well, a simple argument against the "Jigglypuff takes no skill" line of thinking is the fact that there are relatively few high placing puffs. The ones that do place high make it look really easy, but it isn't. Your definition of skill is extremely subjective.

P.S. Lol at Jiggs- Peach 80-20
 

Van.

Smash Ace
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If what you say is true, than Jigglypuff players made the ultimate mindgame: choosing thhe better character. But of course, what you say is not true, so its irrelevant.
EDIT: And LMAO at Armada adapting well. How many times did he fall for m2ks gimmicky ledgehop counter thing in their first set?
 

PoundSlap

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@TLink_King: peach cannot combo jiggs and jiggs has an 8% percent kill move (utilt rest) and his backairs combo peach so that she can get 40% each time + uair. the developers made jiggs so that she counters peach because jiggs is supposted to be the best out of the floaties. its the same with uthrow usmash on fastfallers with fox so that fox is the best in the fastfaller tier. so the 80:20 is legit

@Van: how is character choice a mindgame? this kinda sounds like youre so bad at mindgames that you hope choosing a character is one so that you can call yourself a mind reader.

and lol ICG not understanding the thread once again. are you like 12?
 

Quic

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If what you say is true, than Jigglypuff players made the ultimate mindgame: choosing thhe better character. But of course, what you say is not true, so its irrelevant.
EDIT: And LMAO at Armada adapting well. How many times did he fall for m2ks gimmicky ledgehop counter thing in their first set?
How often did he lose to m2k in a set? he beat him every time, so eh.
Also watch Armada get smacked around against shiz at genesis game one and retalliate game 3.
Also don't respond to Poundslap, he's just trolling hella hard.
 

PoundSlap

Smash Journeyman
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The irony here is that PoundSlap is making Jiggs johns.
i dont make any johns. if you arent open for facts than stay in your narrow minded world where the best can obviously only be from the usa lol youre such a stereotyping person
 

Fried Ice Cream

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Funkadelica ๏̯͡๏﴿
I don't think putting skill in percentages towards each other isn't going to work. Each player has a different playtype and then comparing two completely different players two different characters and saying "he has more skill" is a very silly process. You're comparing oranges and lemons. Hell, it's even hard to do that with players who play one character, but different characters? I don't think it works like that "two players of even skill play the Jigglypuff - Peach matchup". Also, 80 : 20 is a ridiculous number and not even close to what it's supposed to be :/.

Saying that Jigglypuff requires little to no mindgames shows you really have no idea how to play once you get past the plateau of spamming moves without thinking and hope that just spacing will work fine. You're not going to get better with that thought process.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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and lol ICG not understanding the thread once again. are you like 12?
no LOL at you. I understand skill much more than you. If I make a mistake I should be punished right? sometimes the mistakes is approaching or misspacing everytime armada made a mistake he got punished don't disargee with this s*** because it's a fact you f*** up you get f***ed up.

there are SOME punishment inbalncements in the game like pichu vs sheik. If sheik wins it's proof I f***ed up really bad. I clearly was readable or made many mistakes or didn't do all I could to reduce punishment. that said i've come close tp beating a sheik main or 2 but they then quit before I could redeam myself. No matter how you play the cards armada f***ed up really bad everytime he got punished.

also peach punishs about as hard as puff in the match-up from what i've seen if puff misses a rest sucks really bad for puff. peach can also tank longer than puff. Plsu spacing IS tech skill. puff takes careful spacing as in movement and space control. You don't let them break through the space you've taken over.

plus lets throw out there the fact falco takes more skill to play as tech skill wise than peach. when mango beat peach with falco does that make his falco better by worlds than his puff? mango's falco went d*** near even with that peach and puff pulled a ahead only a little bit then took total control once armada broke down. we see the mental side of this game and armada like m2k has a puff thing going on
 
D

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Why has he not been permabanned? I thought it was established that he's been trolling, for a very very long time (and for whatever reason people keep responding to him). He ruined the very interesting Best Players thread with pages and pages of trolling and people writing huge walls of text to respond to his trolling.
 

PoundSlap

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@ICG: sorry but i cannot take you serously anymore. you have no clue about melee, your arguments are invalid and the only thing you do is referring to pichu which is a character that should not even be in the game but developers thought pikachu wouldnt be enough to satisfy all homosexual fangirls so they tried to make it a step gayer and put pichu in it.

@hungrybox: that you won against armada in gf and wsf means youre less than 72% worse in terms of skill than armada. you have probably around 45% less skill, keep in mind that the 72% only happen if armada wins with one stock because then hes 72% better.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
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I'm glad we have all these useful exact percentages so we can know how good people *really* are.

PoundSlap, about how much less skill (percentagewise, if it's an irrational number you can just use fractions I don't wanna make it hard on you) does it to take to win with wobbling legal compared to without it?
 
D

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@hungrybox: that you won against armada in gf and wsf means youre less than 72% worse in terms of skill than armada. you have probably around 45% less skill, keep in mind that the 72% only happen if armada wins with one stock because then hes 72% better.
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Why are people still responding to THIS?
 

PoundSlap

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@ wobbles: since IC are bad you start against higher tiers with about 20% less chance. you can mess up wobbling so it takes sort of techskill and isnt just spamming buttons. also to get grabs require mindgames and 4 grabs which can be broke out at lower percents so wobbling is situational. but the missing combos due to wobbling will decrease the skill so considering all these facts and facing a fox IC need about 10% more skill than a fox to win which is pretty cool when you keep in mind that the matchup is 70:30 for fox.

@puu: i personally thought we have a vital discussion going on here. and dont forget the thread title. since its a serious topic please try to not post such pointless stuff. if you have questions about anything that you dont understand just ask but dont try to derail this discussion.
 
D

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@hungrybox: that you won against armada in gf and wsf means youre less than 72% worse in terms of skill than armada. you have probably around 45% less skill, keep in mind that the 72% only happen if armada wins with one stock because then hes 72% better.
This is how it's obvious that you are just trolling.

Btw Kevin M, same signature! Hopefully I've typed enough that it will show up in this post. It's really the only reason I reposted in this thread.
 

PoundSlap

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ok, puu this is your last warning. the next time your posts are off topic im going to report them. your posts clearly dont respond to the actual topic and you admitted yourself that youre intentionally off topic. i hate trolls like you.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

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@ICG: sorry but i cannot take you serously anymore. you have no clue about melee, your arguments are invalid and the only thing you do is referring to pichu which is a character that should not even be in the game but developers thought pikachu wouldnt be enough to satisfy all homosexual fangirls so they tried to make it a step gayer and put pichu in it.
XD opinions. I wouldn't mind being a girl I really wouldn't as long as I stick with going out with girls. now let me edit your point so we can see any points you made besides JUST unrelated insults.

@ICG: sorry but i cannot take you serously anymore. you have no clue about melee, your arguments are invalid and the only thing you do is referring to pichu which is a character that should not even be in the game but developers thought pikachu wouldnt be enough to satisfy all so they tried to make it a step and put pichu in it.
okay there now i'll stop laughing at you. If argue about skill inbalnce how aren't you going to have arguements related to bottom or low tiers? your logic is super f***ed up there. so in fact pichu is very valid in the arguement and even more because I solidly know more about pichu than I do as others i'm more comfortable.

also based on the delopers veiws on the game don't matter they don't like WD cause it's hard to do.

so the last reason why you shouldn't listen to me is because I don't have a clue about melee. hey sandbagging I can take stocks off zhu so yeah get f***ed up. I must know something. even if i'm terrible.

Tech skill counts spacing/control of movement and stage. H-box is very good at that.

ALSO to people who thinks he's justa troll of just plain ******** let me handle this one if he is he will auto lose to me. You can't be staticeficed in argueing with me if you win which I've admitted others right before you still won't feel good.
 
D

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ok, puu this is your last warning. the next time your posts are off topic im going to report them. your posts clearly dont respond to the actual topic and you admitted yourself that youre intentionally off topic. i hate trolls like you.
Make my day. Bring mods to this thread.
 

ERayz

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I'm curious about how he managed to get that 72%, from his subjective 80/20 MU, and his approximative "about 40% less skill required"

I tried to figure out but I failed (maybe I'm just bad at Maths lol)
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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Poundslap I'm closing this. If you want to make another one that isn't full of spam (and explains your percentage system better, because I don't understand it), then go ahead.

If you guys don't like an idea DONT POST IN THE THREAD.

Seriously. We're pretty lenient on letting you guys make threads and going off topic and what not. Don't give us a reason to tighten up. If you guys feel the need to throw a +1 post or just say how a topic is bad I'm going to start hitting people with spam infractions.
 
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