why i think tournaments need more respect (serious topic)

[Dr Peepee]

The crowd didn't say ANYTHING when I started with Marth against Armada, and I went in with the attitude of "my Marth is awesome let's shake things up!" I wanted the crowd to enjoy me playing Marth as much as I did. I meant nothing disrespectful towards Armada.

I got up and danced because mad people swarmed the stage and it was freaking exciting LOL. Dance party in the middle of Apex finals WHY NOT LMAO

Leffen Sucks chant was bad.

 

[MaskedMarth]

When I saw you dancing/cheering/fist pumping I wondered whether it was one of your attitude experiments. Like playing "angry" in some previous tournaments. I thought it was an interesting way of getting yourself and the crowd hyped.

The anti-Leffen chants reflect poorly on us as a community.

 

[Gea]

The PP shuffle was amazing

 

[Dr Peepee]

yes it was also an attitude experiment BUT SHH DUDE

 

[Zodiac]

Just about everyone I talked to thought the Leffen sucks chant was bull****, I housed with leffen, he's not an ******* at all and at least in person hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of bull****. And for the record if I was playing at Apex 2013 I would have made scar forfeit that stock in a heart beat. And I bet most of you would have done the same thing.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

this is honestly ridicoulus, hes been worse to people on the boards (and even worse irl), why shouldn't you be allowed to talk smack back to someone who's done it to you?
if people would chant like that against me for talking smack about flopmerica i wouldn't hold it against them, it's understandable and not that ****ing serious anyway
if you know that you'll be affected by something like that then don't talk **** and dont be an a-hole, its very simple

"sympathy for everyone, no matter how much they suck ****". youre all a bunch of ****ies.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Yeah I've personally heard a lot meaner and more personal ****-talk than a simple "so & so sucks" chant

And if that many people are willing to jump on a chant like that, then you've obviously done something to rub a LOT of people the wrong way.

Leffen is cool irl though

Edit: And I much prefer the happy-dancing PP to the somber "I look like I just had a death in the family" PP.

 

[MasterShake]

if people would chant like that against me for talking smack about flopmerica i wouldn't hold it against them, it's understandable and not that ****ing serious anyway

Some serious truth going on here.

I'm pretty sure nobody thinks leffen actually sucks (skill wise, at least).

He's the perfect smash villain with his rep lol.

 

[V-K]

@mikehaggar
If he is mean to you of course you can talk back np. But to mock someone in a group is weak. And I don't think such a tournament atmosphere is appealing to new players.

 

[Strong Badam]

more importantly why is PoundSlap back?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

@mikehaggar
If he is mean to you of course you can talk back np. But to mock someone in a group is weak. And I don't think such a tournament atmosphere is appealing to new players.

ive never heard of people doing that to new players. if anything it gives them the message not to be a-holes, which is good for tournament atmosphere.

whats so terrible about mocking someone in a group, especially when hes been a **** to the entire group? and when its not bullying (a social phenomenon which leffen enjoys leading), just a ****ing chant.

why dont you people go eat ice cream while watching bridget jones and crying about how somebody made a comment about your weight you ****ing ****ies. man up jesus christ.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@mikehaggar
If he is mean to you of course you can talk back np. But to mock someone in a group is weak. And I don't think such a tournament atmosphere is appealing to new players.

You're full of it. Maybe if the new player was European, but it was APEX, so I doubt we saw many "new players" from Europe who are going to be so negatively affected that they no longer wish to attend tournaments if they paid to fly across the ocean. As for everyone else, people like hype. Regardless of whether for or against, cheering generates mad hype. It gets the crowd involved. Somebody said earlier that Leffen is the perfect smash villain and that's a GOOD thing for making the atmosphere appealing to new players. It's your hero vs. the big bad guy and everyone wants to make sure that the world knows on which side they stand. If it was threatening or some sort of hyper offensive racial slur then that would need to be shut down, but not because it was disrespectful (sometimes the right kind of disrespect builds hype like crazy because it sets up huge contrasts where someone has to eat crow. Shoutouts to HBox popping off) but because it crosses lines in other parts of society's status quo.

Hype is like a Fat Sandwich. If you can't handle it, you should stay home because you're a little girl who will never be able to fully enjoy life. Personally, I think Leffen can handle a Fat Sandwich.

 

[Fletch]

this is honestly ridicoulus, hes been worse to people on the boards (and even worse irl), why shouldn't you be allowed to talk smack back to someone who's done it to you?
if people would chant like that against me for talking smack about flopmerica i wouldn't hold it against them, it's understandable and not that ****ing serious anyway
if you know that you'll be affected by something like that then don't talk **** and dont be an a-hole, its very simple

You aren't supposed to make posts that I agree with, f*** you Mikehaggar.

Leffen is a douche to people on the boards and apparently in real life, so what did you expect to happen? They said he sucks (which apparently, he does), who cares? That isn't the least bit offensive, and I'm sure everyone has had someone much worse said to them at some time. And don't give me the European hate, Hbox gets plenty of hate on him (the stream was very anti-box and laughing about his emotions after he lost), but when you address these issues you just let the idiot trolls get their attention which they crave. There will be immature members in every community, but bottom line, don't feed the trolls.

#HaggarSucks

 

[The Star King]

yo the return of the flood of PoundSlap threads

I think he made like 5 last time? ahhh yes

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

You aren't supposed to make posts that I agree with, f*** you Mikehaggar.

Leffen is a douche to people on the boards and apparently in real life, so what did you expect to happen? They said he sucks (which apparently, he does), who cares? That isn't the least bit offensive, and I'm sure everyone has had someone much worse said to them at some time. And don't give me the European hate, Hbox gets plenty of hate on him (the stream was very anti-box and laughing about his emotions after he lost), but when you address these issues you just let the idiot trolls get their attention which they crave. There will be immature members in every community, but bottom line, don't feed the trolls.

#HaggarSucks

youre feeding me with the great satisfaction that even my most dedicated haters see that im an amazing genius who is always right.
you can never stop the amazing mike swaggar, not even death can stop me. im mysterion.
#flopmericasucksmy****
<3

 

[PoundSlap]

this is honestly ridicoulus, hes been worse to people on the boards (and even worse irl), why shouldn't you be allowed to talk smack back to someone who's done it to you?
if people would chant like that against me for talking smack about flopmerica i wouldn't hold it against them, it's understandable and not that ****ing serious anyway
if you know that you'll be affected by something like that then don't talk **** and dont be an a-hole, its very simple

"sympathy for everyone, no matter how much they suck ****". youre all a bunch of ****ies.

it is perfectly fine to explain leffen why hes a douchebag before or after actual sets but not inbetween. also i promise the chant would not have started if there wasnt this incident in teams, which was just leffen complying to the rules. i agree it was not honarable but neither is playing for the clock.

You're full of it. Maybe if the new player was European, but it was APEX, so I doubt we saw many "new players" from Europe who are going to be so negatively affected that they no longer wish to attend tournaments if they paid to fly across the ocean. As for everyone else, people like hype. Regardless of whether for or against, cheering generates mad hype. It gets the crowd involved. Somebody said earlier that Leffen is the perfect smash villain and that's a GOOD thing for making the atmosphere appealing to new players. It's your hero vs. the big bad guy and everyone wants to make sure that the world knows on which side they stand. If it was threatening or some sort of hyper offensive racial slur then that would need to be shut down, but not because it was disrespectful (sometimes the right kind of disrespect builds hype like crazy because it sets up huge contrasts where someone has to eat crow. Shoutouts to HBox popping off) but because it crosses lines in other parts of society's status quo.

Hype is like a Fat Sandwich. If you can't handle it, you should stay home because you're a little girl who will never be able to fully enjoy life. Personally, I think Leffen can handle a Fat Sandwich.

dumb post. hype is a good thing but you cant do it on somebody elses cost. if i see you chanting poundslap sucks at the next apex i would stand up mid match and punch you in the face and tell you if you cant handle it you should stay home because youre a little girl.

 

[Jim Morrison]

i agree it was not honarable but neither is playing for the clock.

I disagree.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

i agree it was not honarable but neither is playing for the clock.

yhea, and the crowd always shows its love for people who play for the clock.

 

[ElloEddy]

i know leffen probably didn't deserve the chant ( maybe he did ) but he's really a jerk , at times

im my opinion if your a pro / top level player be nice to ppl and encourage the newer smashers to the scene ...he was talking down on players he played friendlies with instead of being nice , giving tips etc.

he told my friend after playing friendlies with him for like 20 mins , that he has a horrible luigi and my friend really took offense to that we only been playing for less then a year and my friend told me he wasn't even doing that bad against leffen but ... its lil things like like that , that make a impression on ppl and if your being a mean rude person , you deserve the hate.

 

[Jolteon]

Edit: And I much prefer the happy-dancing PP to the somber "I look like I just had a death in the family" PP.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No thanks, bro.

 

[Rockenos]

I wonder if people even realize that chanting "X person sucks" makes you an ******* moreso than however mad you got from a Leffen post on the Internet

 

[Massive]

Two (serious topic) posts in less than a week?

Poundslap is trollin' hard and deep.

Meta-posts are fun guys, you should try it.

 

[Jockmaster]

This is the coolest picture

The emotionless enigma Armada looking over the defeated hero Hungrybox as he anguishes in his second defeat.

It's some animu ****

 

[Sox]

There was one guy in particular who seemed to not know the limits. he got everybody into the leffen sucks, and "die leffen you ***" chants, and seemed to think it was the funniest thing in the world. I'm not sure if he was drunk or just immature, but it was mostly one guy with everyone else in the crowd cringing at how uncomfortable it was. People didnt seem to understand that Leffen is one of the few who legitimately thinks he is one of the best in the world, and flew across the world to try to prove it. the kid was on a mission, and i dont know why people wouldnt be more supportive. I gained a lot of respect for him at Apex and I hope he does well in future tournaments.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

who cares if hes good at smash? it doesnt give someone the right to be an ******* and get away with it.

 

[Sox]

who cares if hes good at smash? it doesnt give someone the right to be an ******* and get away with it.

kinda preaching a double standard, ya? Michael Jordan is an ***, but he's loved by everyone. Similarly, people should respect the players of the game, especially if they're driven to be the best. Tournaments should promote that attitude, not chastise people for it.

 

[TheGoat]

Are you serious?

SSBM isn't soccer. These aren't entire teams playing, these are single players. Imagine going to a tennis game and the crowd starts chanting "Nadal sucks". Or a game of badminton where they chant "Taufik sucks". It doesn't happen in professional sports, or even professional e-sports for that matter (SSB has a long way to go before being considered a legitimate e-sport).

All I know is if I were in Leffen's shoes, I'd be pissed

"Leffen sucks" was total bull****. It doesn't matter how he acts on these forums...that was childish and unacceptable.

Also, the football/soccer analogy doesn't exactly apply here. Just about everyone in that crowd was entered in the tournament. It's not like they're fans watching from home completely removed from the experience like an average person compared to a sports athlete. What if, in baseball, the team up to bat was chanting something similar to the opposing team's pitcher? It's simply bad sportsmanship, which is sometimes enough to get you booted from a professional sports game.

You guys have obviously never been to a soccer game in europe/football game in the US. Please understand what hype is and that melee is a sport in its own right.

As for the Leffen fiasco, I think it's unfortunate when our community resorts to this type of thing. Hype is a good thing but booing a player like isn't something good for our community. On the other hand, from what I gather Leffen hasn't done anything to help his case, even mikehaggar has voiced his opinion on the subject...

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I wasn't actually there for the Leffen chant, but from what I've heard, I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal. This wasn't arbitrarily picking on a foreign player for being foreign, it was criticism for an earlier decision he made in the tournament and, to some extent, exacerbated by his boards persona (which people are always complaining how people aren't held accountable IRL for their online actions/words).

Did they directly insult Leffen as a person? No.
Was Leffen physically threatened? No (unless I'm mistaken).

I'm sure a couple members of the crowd said some pretty nasty things, and those people should be taken to task for that, but given that none of that ostensibly made it to the crowd chant or
to Leffen's ears, then it's all good.

Props to MikeHaggar for maintaining a consistent viewpoint even when he could easily cannibalize it.

 

[Zhea]

Has there ever been a chant like that at a national/international for any other player?

 

[Strong Badam]

I have to say that this thread would not have been made if leffen weren't from europe. Sorry PoundSlap but your bias is obvious.

But IMO the "leffen sucks" chant was overall in bad taste. I much prefer cheering to trash talk as it's bolstering and doesn't detract from the quality of play, but it's not like we can prevent either with a rule. Part of being in the crowd is partaking in these kinds of chants. I remember at APEX 2012 when they turned the lights on for a bit and the projector screen was difficult to see, part of the crowd started chanting "Can't see ****! Can't see ****!" Seriously, a crowd will chant anything if it's amusing. I think there are a lot worse things that could have been chanted or said and that APEX is one of the best places to be to avoid that kind of thing because of the mandatory distance between the players and the crowd.

FWIW the "leffen sucks" chant was mostly led and started by NorCal, who were hit hard by leffen's (IMO justified) use of the no-pause rule during Scar & SFAT vs. Ice & Leffen. It was also compounded by leffen's online persona (very elitist, arrogant, disrespectful, etc.) as well as apparently his offline one (which I didn't really see in my interactions with him, but apparently he was an ******* to some Luigi player?).

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

Strong bad. We only started the Leffen sucks chant during doubles on day1. The rest of the Leffen sucks chants were done by other people

 

[batistabus]

You guys have obviously never been to a soccer game in europe/football game in the US. Please understand what hype is and that melee is a sport in its own right.

My point was that the audience at Apex isn't comparable to sports fans in the stands because most of them are competitors. It looks really bad for the community when the players (rather than just the fans) are acting like that.

While there is prize money for the highest placing players, it's not like smashers are pro-athletes. Even if you win, it's not like you're getting a multi-million dollar check. Most people make long journeys (across continents sometimes), pay to be there, work together for housing and transportation, and are just trying to prove how good they are.

I'm not saying Smash tournaments aren't as serious or meaningful as sports competitions, but the standards are not the same.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Honestly, I don't particularly see why the "Leffen sucks" chant is such a big deal. I'm hardly a fan of Leffen, but I respect how well he played last Apex, and can understand why he'd want to take the win when Scar paused. That said, I found the crowd chant to be hilarious, and Leffen's villain status made several matches far more hype than they would have been otherwise. I don't think there's really any serious hate towards Leffen (though if there is, that is crossing the line and should be dealt with), and considering players can use the novel invention known as headphones, crowd noise shouldn't be a huge issue.

Edit:
By the way, if anyone wants to compare with professional sports, I believe at one football game, Eagles fans cheered when a Cowboys player (big rival team for those of you who don't follow football) suffered a career ending injury.

 

[j00t]

Leffen chant was hella dumb.

PP's theatrics during GF did look pretty silly and I do believe it was disrespectful to Armada. Like, yeah, you took some games but save it for when you win.

 

[Ziodyne]

PP looked silly dancing in GF, but not because it was disrespectful to Armada.

He's not a very good dancer. No lie, that **** was borderline insulting.

 

[Juno McGrath]

lmfaooooooooo

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

In all respect, I'll probably call-in to Scar's stream today to talk about this.

I'm not sure when the melee community got so tame and so buddy-buddy. If you looked at the old days (Chillin, Ken, Wes), everyone trash talked liberally. It was hilarious and fairly non-personal.

Heck watch the classic Melee FC crew battles and you can see KillaOR and crew make hilarious comments throughout.

Even in socal/norcal, we have rivalries and in our recent KoC crew battle, you can even hear the trash talk and banter that goes on between the two regions.

Maybe, I'm delusional and maybe trash talk is something that we only see on the west coast.

However, the majority of us didn't make personal attacks on Leffen with the exception of very few people.

tl;dr "Leffen sucks" is a tame chant relative to what's been throughout our history.

 

[bertbusdriver]

"YO DUDE LETS CHANT '_____ sucks!' I HATE THAT DUDE."
"OH WAIT REMEMBER THAT THREAD POUNDSLAP MADE ABOUT HAVING A GOOD IMAGE FOR THE COMMUNITY!?"
"OK I HAVE STANDARDS NOW"

...said no one in the smash community ever.

 

[JPOBS]

I'm not sure when the melee community got so tame and so buddy-buddy. If you looked at the old days (Chillin, Ken, Wes), everyone trash talked liberally. It was hilarious and fairly non-personal.

THANK YOU!!

All this **** about "it really reflects badly on us as a community guis =(" we aren't a part of some national or international association. No one is watching us. And this stuff is baby talk compared to what goes down in marvel.