Why is Snake cheap?

[NeroDB]

Apparently many people say that Snake is cheap, is it because of his hand to hand range that's broken? Snake is one of my favorite character and one of the reason i bought Brawl.
Can someone care to explain?

 

[indianunit]

He would be "considered" cheap because his tilts are pretty powerful but the REAL cheap character is metaknight....supposedly.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well I dont want to break your heart if you like snake and all, but I will state some of the reasons why ppl think snake is cheap.

1: While D3 is the strongest char in the game, when comparing his and Snake's Fsmash, Snake's Fsmash has much more knockback, therefore being able to kill even faster than D3 could.
2: U-tilt has broken range and is overpowered. It's just as strong as a Boozer Usmash, and I hate it with a passion.
3: Some attacks (like U-tilt) are overpowered.
4: He seems much more heavier than Bowser, therefore seems harder to KO.
5: In addition to some overpowered attacks which some have broken range, he has projectiles as well.
6: He's a very good and annoying camper. Even noobs can pressure a good player with some camping and spamming of Overpowered Tilts.
7: Snake, along with MK are the ones winning the tournaments most because of their cheapness.

With that in mind, you should see why. I myself am not a fond of snake because he thinks he's better than Pit and Bowser (Poor young angel).
Anyways, in my experience, Snake (And some MKs) would be a player's last resort if they cant beat me because of his well, hate to say it but cheapness. Maybe it's because I pwn them hard with Pit

 

[AzNsAnTaGiN]

Snake is the 3rd heaviest in the game, even though he doesn't look it.
Snake's forward tilt has ridiculous speed, range, priority, and knockback.
Snake has the best dash attack canceling in the game.
Snakes up tilt is just BROKEN.
Sanke can have, at any point, six projectiles on the map: A mine, a mortar, a C4, 2 grenades, and a Nikita.
Near infinite vertical recovery with Up-B and C4.


Meta Knight is very cheap too, but for different reasons.

 

[ZHMT]

I only think Snake is cheap online. Snake has bad matchups, Metaknight doesnt. Metaknight is therefore far cheaper.

To win with Snake you have to at least play good. Metaknight is far different.

 

[the5souls]

And if you are the visual type (most people are), just stop by this thread (I'll post the link below) and take a glance at all the pictures. They summarize most things.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162635



That, plus:

-Cromslide (Motarslide)
-Nade dropping
-Nade stripping
-Extra recovery with C4
-Amazing F-Smash knockback
-Tons of explosives flying (and hiding) everywhere
-U-tilt has amazing range
-All ariel attacks are God-Like (with a bit of exception of Fair)
-His prone (holding down on Control Stick) is about the same height if a Jigglypuff or Kirby were ducking

Tons of stuff for the opponent to worry about.

Tons.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Snake is too manly. That is why he is cheap.

 

[Kratos1]

People mostly call him cheap dude to his Ftilts and uptilts. That's most of the complaints. 2 moves out of so many, I don't think it is right to call a character cheap.

 

[Alus]

all of snakes tillts are BS and he has a LOT of glitches that assist him...so he is top teir...

 

[IDK]

I only think Snake is cheap online. Snake has bad matchups, Metaknight doesnt. Metaknight is therefore far cheaper.

To win with Snake you have to at least play good. Metaknight is far different.

cheap is not the same as good. how could snake only be cheap online? try to hit snake when he has a grenade out and shields. if he cooks it and shields... you can't grab or hit w/o/ getting grenadified. try being a non projectile character and approaching a snake who puts down a prox mine, rolls back once, and spams usmash next to the edge. not possible. snakedash= amazing approach. so yay. MK has the wh0renado.

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

People mostly call him cheap dude to his Ftilts and uptilts. That's most of the complaints. 2 moves out of so many, I don't think it is right to call a character cheap.

But those moves are so signifantly broken that it doesn't even matter. U-tilt has godly range, power of a smash attack (dare I say more), and the speed of a tilt. The same goes for f-tilt. And Snake's other moves are like getting hit by nukes (and fast ones at that).

Also, lets not forget his nades

 

[rm88]

I'd honestly say I've never faced such an unfair character in a videogame. This comes from someone who used to pwn the top-tiers with Kirby (the 3rd worst character in the game) in Melee @_@ It's simply not fair. Let's take Peach, my "main" main, as an example >_<

- Peach goes campy so she doesn't get destroyed (early)
- Peach is outcamped by Snake and his tons of projectiles
- Peach approaches while Snake is "vulnerable"
- Peach gets tilted to death

This is a typical Peach-Snake match. His dash cancel is really effective against her too (she lacks a second jump, she's really vulnerable while floating, she falls slowly, etc.), but you can stop it sometimes with a nicely timed bair/dair. You have to get Snake to 200% or more, while a single tilt will kill the princess very early. You'd say Peach kinda has an advantage in the air, until you get hit by his "flying tilts" (dair, nair, bair... uair is not as deadly, but powerful nonetheless).

You may believe I'm just a bitter Peach mainer, but I play Kirby, Dedede, Sonic, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Zelda and Mario too, and I'm only decent against Snake when I'm using Dedede. Because I chaingrab.

I've said this a lot of times, but maybe I just suck against Snake? I don't find Metaknight that hard. Not even near as hard.

 

[NeroDB]

I don't really see how that makes Snake cheap. There are several moves that allow him to be cheap if they spam it. For example Mortar Slide, for light characters it's easy to get knocked off the stage by that move. C4's And Proxy mines can also be damaged by Snake himself it also allows Snake use Mortar slide even less if there is a Proxy Mine (On small stages that is, like Halberd or Smallville). Even then Proxy Mines can be blown up by your own projectile attacks. The only troublesome part about C4 is you can't blow it up yourself, even then you should see it coming when Snake players blow up C4's.

Snake's Hand to Hand is relatively slow but powerful. People who ---SPAM--- F-tilt and U-tilt would be considered cheap, but that's the player being cheap, not the character. Snake Dash is possible to block with Ike or Marth's counter, this also prevents him from using the Mortar Slide. His Aerials are powerful aswell but it does leave him wide open if missed. There's only one aerial move of snake that has multiple hits, the rest is just a single hit.

After typing up all of this, i'm not saying Snake is easy to beat since he's a heavyweight and all but Snake does have his share of disadvantages. Majority of the players that you've probably met use Snake the wrong way. I'm no pro myself when it comes to Snake since i'm an Ike mainer.

 

[ADHD]

No, thats MK. Snake is annoying, REALLY ANNOYING, but not as annoying as MK.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Nah, Snake is worse then MK, Snake has the weight of a heavy, and the hitbox of a medium, not to mention that Utilt that has a hitbox the size of bowser or DK and KO's like a smash. If he was in his weightclass, the the tilts could be overlooked, but him being a heavy with godly abilities like Utilt, Ftilt, Ftilt lock, C4, and the combo shattering nades, thats just too much.

 

[JesiahTEG]

At lower levels of play, Snake is considered "cheap." At higher levels of play, Snake isn't nearly as effective as Metaknight.

 

[ShadowBlitz]

There are lots of reasons people think Snake is cheap...I use Snake every now and then and even I've noticed that he's cheap....

- His (side) A attacks are extremely powerful...
- His recovery is amazing...(I shouldn't say amazing because his recovery is basically an invitation to spike him)
- Hard to knock back...
- All he has to do when edgeguarding is his F-smash and the opponent flies to hell...
- Camper...

 

[Sync99]

At lower levels of play, Snake is considered "cheap." At higher levels of play, Snake isn't nearly as effective as Metaknight.

Actually this isn't true at all...MK just seems easier to use for n00bs.

Snake is cheap but only if you use his cheap moves in cheap ways. For example, my friends at college usually use b-moves, dash-attacks, and smashes. With Snake they're dumbfounded that this is a "cheap" char, b/c none of his moves seem to be very good (he's very slow). Snake is extremely weak in the air, and many of my n00b friends don't know the proper way to get back down to the ground (they always try landing right above me and attacking). For my other friend who actually has mindgames, Snake was the easiest char to use. His approach takes almost no effort:

(1) Walk slowly toward opponent
(2) Do first hit of ftilt
(3A) If shielded- stop and go back to (2)
(3B) If not shielded- HIT OPPONENT with second hit and pwn

That's pretty much all he had to do. It took him 3 minutes to get Snake's dash cancel down, which is obnoxious, and he learned Snake's other cheap moves and their proper usage:

Utilt: Use to KO, hits in front and above ridiculously
Side-B: Gets enemies off the ledge/ledgeguarding
Down-B: Stick to opponents, activate after utilt for VERY low % KO
Nair: Use immediately after leaving ground to get fourth kick out before landing
Down throw: Allows you to tech chase, easy to do with Dair or Fsmash

Yeah he's just ridiculous because he has the best tricks, best moves, and you can use his Down-B to get your Up-B back, making his recovery better than previously thought. I picked up Snake SOLELY because I knew he was cheap, and the chars I use (Fox, Peach, & Lucario) lack the same potential to win on a tournament level.

 

[Sync99]

And btw, it was actually Tapion who taught me all that XD

 

[kupo15]

Snake isnt cheap nor broken...

 

[Darkwashu]

Hes the 3rd heaviest character in the game,and look at his recovry,tilts(His dtilt star KO'd me!),aerials(His fair killed my Iceys are 80% on battlefield,a STAR ko),his crouch is close to Jiggles,

I love how people say his smashes suck because his fsamsh is slow,thats hwo you trade speed for power.
Its stronger than D3's smash,even though its faster.

To lazy to go on.but you get the point.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

At lower levels of play, Snake is considered "cheap." At higher levels of play, Snake isn't nearly as effective as Metaknight.

QFT

10snakes

 

[Kratos1]

People never pay much attention to what is more important to win. The weakness of the character. People complaining about Snake and how broken he is when he has a weakness. Abuse his weakness and not pay so much attention about how broken he is. This is not gonna get you anywhere. You're just whining about stuff instead of doing something about it.

 

[Vect0r]

I didn't say Snake is cheap. Compared to other character he could be cheap in some way though.

But seriously, Wolf owns him anyway.

 

[NeroDB]

All the Falco players(Except one, Zamzi i think) i've met so far just spam Chain grab then use Dair when i play as Ike, This pretty much also counts for Dedede. I consider things like things like that cheap.

There is a reason why Snake is a heavy weight, But being a heavy weight as some claim isn't cheap. Snake does have a solid recovery but it leaves him wide open aswell, The C4 trick can also lead to killing yourself if at high percentage. Snake has more advantage at lower percentage then higher.

 

[Veggi]

Snake's forward tilt does 1% more than Yoshi's fully charged forward smash.

However, Snake has a suprisingly large amount of characters that can play well against him and weaknessses to take advantage of. Which is why everyone hates Metaknight.

 

[0RLY]

Snake has everything a player could ever want.

VERY difficult to kill.
Disjointed hitbox.
TONS of range.
LOTS of power.
Low start-up speed on good moves.
Good throws.
Good edgeguarding.
Projectile(s).
Good approach(es).
Stage control.
Sexy gimp (C4 sticking).
Secret taunt.
Taunts that rival that of Luigi's.

 

[Beetle Juice]

snake is not cheap, he is a good character

mk on the other hand is cheap

 

[Esoteric]

Hi dead horse, have we met?

 

[Pokemon Mystery]

No,he ain't that cheap,cheap against Luigi though XD

 

[Mr. Rogu]

cause snake just camps all day and uses his gernades and honing missiles to attack.

 

[Sosuke]

Hes not.
MK is.
*hides* >_>

 

[Excellence]

Snake is only cheap because it takes actual effort to beat a good one.

 

[JesiahTEG]

A lot of people in here are just clueless.

Snake is a good character. Noobs think he's cheap because of his amazing tilts that aren't hard to do. You can just spam Ftilt against them all day and they die.

Now, at higher levels of play, people will run and powershield your Ftilt, especially MK, and then you'll be screwed. Snake has a ton of weaknesses, mainly his easy to **** recovery, and his weakness in the air. Sure he has ways around his aerial problems, but not enough to warrant it not a weakness.

Snake gets CG'd by a lot of characters also, including Pika, DDD, Falco. He has bad matchups which include those 3 and R.O.B. Some people say DK too, and MK.

I stand by my previous statement. Snake is cheap at lower levels of play, but the higher up you go, the more weaknesses he has.

 

[link2702]

admiral Bowser summed it up quite nicely, Yes Snake IS cheap/broken, really Ftilts with ridiculus reach, and power, Utilt that has an even MORE ridiculus reach, he's a heavyweight, with the power all around of one, but with the speed of a middleweight, he has so many projectiles it isn't even funny, seriously, I don't even think samus has as many as snake! Snake has plenty of projectiltes, that make him deadly at far range, and enough power in his melee attacks, to make him deadly up close as well, snake really IS waaaaay to broken, the developers needed to test play him ALOT more, yet it seems like they never did at all.

 

[rm88]

Snake has a ton of weaknesses

Lol, no. A ton of weaknesses? He'd have more than 3 not advantageous match-ups.

mainly his easy to **** recovery, and his weakness in the air.

I don't think his recovery is any more "rapeable" than the rest of recoveries. You have to be one of his 3 "counters" to gimp his recovery effectively. Also, he's not that weak in the air, his aerials are overpowered as well.

Basically, he has 3 less than perfect match-ups. Poor Snake. I guess you need to be more objective >_< I second Dedede, and I think his chain grab and infinites are cheap.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dk can Spike/Bair Snake out of his recovery.

Pikachu can Thunder spam your recovery which is hard to get around.

Marth can spike you out of your recovery.

Meta can infinitely Up B you out of your recovery, and Nair and Dair you.

Falco can spike you out of your recovery.

DDD can Bair and Fair you out of your recovery.

Wario can chomp you out of your recovery.

ROB can Nair you and Spike you out of your recovery.

I'm sure there's more that I can't think of.

Metaknight is hard for Snake because of how well he capitalizes on Snake's bad aerial game and how bad he gimps Snake's recovery.

DDD can CG Snake and edgeguard him to around 80% with Bairs and Fairs making it hard for Snake.

R.O.B. is tough for Snake because he outranges him up close, beats him long range, off the stage, and in the air.

Donkey Kong can be hard for Snake because he outranges him with a couple of moves, can kill him early, and can **** his recovery pretty badly.

Pikachu can CG Snake off the edge until like 40, and then edgeguard him with Thunders, making it really really hard to recover.

Wario can take advantage of Snake's poor aerial game by jumping around and finding openings, not to mention how easy it is for wario to chomp Snake's recovery.

Olimar outcamps Snake at midrange and makes it nearly impossible for Snake to get in.

Marth can capitalize on Snake's poor aerial game and keep pressure from below while Snake is above him.

I'm not saying all of these matches are counters for Snake, because they're not, but a lot of characters do indeed have certain advantages on Snake and can exploit his weaknesses.

 

[Yinlong]

his tilts are overpowered
he has a ****load of projectile that do tons of damage
and has a bunch of techs
hes fast
hes like the third heaviest character in the game
he has a huge recovery (although he can be gimped)

 

[Gindler]

Disjointed arms and legs? Only character in the game with those....

But yeah ****** air game where anything you do has INSANE landing lag. So much so I can whip out a bat with ness on him (for those of you that don't know, the Bat is SOOOOO slow). That predictable recovery stinks too, it's like gee where's he going....up extremely slow maybe?

 

[rm88]

Oh, well >_< Even Peach can Fair his recovery. Too bad she never gets to do it, because good Snakes space their ^B, and avoid getting near the platform (grab release). He gains so much height it's difficult for most characters to hit him.