Why is Snake cheap?

[fired nunjaz]

sorry to burst your bubble but snake is VERY good as i did cruel brawl with hin and killed 5 people! but then dead

 

[P a i n]

I don't think he's cheap cos although he's very strong, he's incredibly hard to use compared to say MK. At least to be 'cheap' with snake, you need to be skilled.

 

[NeroDB]

his tilts are overpowered
he has a ****load of projectile that do tons of damage
and has a bunch of techs
hes fast
hes like the third heaviest character in the game
he has a huge recovery (although he can be gimped)

Please do explain how a character can be cheap by being fast or heavy.

I'm seriously starting to doubt that people know the definition of cheap.

Oh, well >_< Even Peach can Fair his recovery. Too bad she never gets to do it, because good Snakes space their ^B, and avoid getting near the platform (grab release). He gains so much height it's difficult for most characters to hit him.

People who play Snake and that spam moves usually leave their back wide open, Hell they are even predictable. As most players use F-tilt and U-tilt it leaves his back wide open, Majority of Snakes attacks are straight foward when it comes to close range. Even if Snake players recover it's hard to get back on the ground. Grenades, C4's all damage Snake himself.

If you can hit him from behind it usually results a hit or a mortar slide.

 

[link2702]

you don't have to do be very skilled, after just a few days using snake, you can pretty much be good enough to give anyoen else trouble, no, you might not stand a chance against others who actually MAIN snake, but against just about all other characters, they'd have a really tough time fighting you, I don't main snake at all, yet all I did was watch a few vids of how other snakes play, play with him for a few days, and I was good enough to give other people I faced alot of trouble...except the ones who DO main snake, so really while you do have to have a basic understanding of him, unless you're against a person who mains snake themselves, you don't have to be too skilled with him to give others trouble.

 

[Siojinettes]

Please do explain how a character can be cheap by being fast or heavy.

I'm seriously starting to doubt that people know the definition of cheap.



People who play Snake and that spam moves usually leave their back wide open, Hell they are even predictable. As most players use F-tilt and U-tilt it leaves his back wide open, Majority of Snakes attacks are straight foward when it comes to close range. Even if Snake players recover it's hard to get back on the ground. Grenades, C4's all damage Snake himself.

If you can hit him from behind it usually results a hit or a mortar slide.

Snake is not cheap, he's over powered a big difference, people abuse that because Snake has a majority of techniques and strategies but instead of him just being a plain strategy guy he became over powered having good defense, offense, etc.

You can protect Snake or deny it all you want you're gonna have to realize it sooner or later.

 

[NeroDB]

Snake is not cheap, he's over powered a big difference, people abuse that because Snake has a majority of techniques and strategies but instead of him just being a plain strategy guy he became over powered having good defense, offense, etc.

You can protect Snake or deny it all you want you're gonna have to realize it sooner or later.

That's my point, Alot of people don't seem to know the difference between cheap and overpowered, it's like they put those two words in one vocabulary.
Even then overpowered doesn't mean the character is easy to use. Skill takes a huge part in every game. The basic moves of Snake are easy to learn (Cooked grenades, mortar slides) But it's about using them properly and the skills of the player that depends the most. Ike for example has no Ranged equipment, it's about adapting to your opponent.

 

[megamanexev3]

Guys, what are you talking about? How is a character with only one taunt cheap. That makes up for what you guys thing is cheap.

 

[Siojinettes]

That's my point, Alot of people don't seem to know the difference between cheap and overpowered, it's like they put those two words in one vocabulary.
Even then overpowered doesn't mean the character is easy to use. Skill takes a huge part in every game. The basic moves of Snake are easy to learn (Cooked grenades, mortar slides) But it's about using them properly and the skills of the player that depends the most. Ike for example has no Ranged equipment, it's about adapting to your opponent.

Yeah but some people don't like adapting to opponents, just like other fighting games they want to use a main and master it not much as this character is good against that one. If they make Snake pure strategy then people would be more satisfied, but he has good stats being defense, offense, amazing techniques, and strategy which get people aggravated like " I like character he's my style" They don't want to change characters to get an advantage over another, if some people don't get what I'm saying then oh well.

 

[NeroDB]

Yeah but some people don't like adapting to opponents, just like other fighting games they want to use a main and master it not much as this character is good against that one. If they make Snake pure strategy then people would be more satisfied, but he has good stats being defense, offense, amazing techniques, and strategy which get people aggravated like " I like character he's my style" They don't want to change characters to get an advantage over another, if some people don't get what I'm saying then oh well.

Then it certainly defeats the purpose for those type of people to whine about it. Definatly if they take part of Tourney's or competitive play. Snake does have alot of advantages specially against light weighted characters but in my opinion i don't think it's right to call a character cheap just because you either

1.) Can't win against them
2.) Two "broken" moves.
3.) Having Two projectiles that can actually be tossed or shot with.

Seriously i don't think a snake player can plant a C4, Proxy mine, Nikita Two grenades at the same time

 

[Siojinettes]

Then it certainly defeats the purpose for those type of people to whine about it. Definatly if they take part of Tourney's or competitive play. Snake does have alot of advantages specially against light weighted characters but in my opinion i don't think it's right to call a character cheap just because you either

1.) Can't win against them
2.) Two "broken" moves.
3.) Having Two projectiles that can actually be tossed or shot with.

Seriously i don't think a snake player can plant a C4, Proxy mine, Nikita Two grenades at the same time

People just say cheap to substitute for over powered and button smashing.
Snake players have won a majority of tourneys.

They wouldn't need to do that, get any character to about 70% and you could triple A him to death.

 

[NeroDB]

People just say cheap to substitute for over powered and button smashing.
Snake players have won a majority of tourneys.

They wouldn't need to do that, get any character to about 70% and you could triple A him to death.

Then again the triple A combo can be easily shielded, I have to admit his last AAA combo is a bit overpowered. Instead of whining about how Snake is overpowered, specially the majority being won by snake players, they should practice against snake players if they want to win.

As Jesiah was mentioned some several weaknesses of Snake by multiple characters. It's just about finding those weaknesses. Once i start playing Ike properly i'll be posting vids-Strats against Snakes. That's if i start becoming good with him

 

[Siojinettes]

Then again the triple A combo can be easily shielded, I have to admit his last AAA combo is a bit overpowered. Instead of whining about how Snake is overpowered, specially the majority being won by snake players, they should practice against snake players if they want to win.

As Jesiah was mentioned some several weaknesses of Snake by multiple characters. It's just about finding those weaknesses. Once i start playing Ike properly i'll be posting vids-Strats against Snakes. That's if i start becoming good with him

everything can be easily shielded but we don't get to block everything, I'm a Snake and Falco player I'm not whining, I know every weakness of him but this game isn't perfectly balance there are characters with way more advantages then others,, practicing to beat a certain character kills the point of fighting games.

by reading the last part of your post it looks like you're averagely new to this game which kinda means you could keep pulling the "all characters are balanced" fairness but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't.

 

[NeroDB]

everything can be easily shielded but we don't get to block everything, I'm a Snake and Falco player I'm not whining, I know every weakness of him but this game isn't perfectly balance there are characters with way more advantages then others,, practicing to beat a certain character kills the point of fighting games.

by reading the last part of your post it looks like you're averagely new to this game which kinda means you could keep pulling the "all characters are balanced" fairness but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't.

I played all of the Smash games and owned them, I never bothered checking the forums for these reasons. I often played with my friends. Link-Roy was my main back then, I'm pointing out the fact that Majority of the players here call a character cheap because everyone else call them that.
There are screenshots to prove Snake is broken.

Just because of these two moves and alot of tech's a characters gets called Cheap.
Hell some don't even bring up a ---Valid--- point.

I'm not defending Snake just because i love the MGS series, Hell in my opinion Ike is far more enjoyable then Snake even though Ike's recovery can be easily gimped

Anyway this is my last post for today, i'm off to bed

 

[habaker91]

Apparently many people say that Snake is cheap, is it because of his hand to hand range that's broken? Snake is one of my favorite character and one of the reason i bought Brawl.
Can someone care to explain?

Snake is cheap because he has the ability to crawl through a microwave oven.

 

[Siojinettes]

I played all of the Smash games and owned them, I never bothered checking the forums for these reasons. I often played with my friends. Link-Roy was my main back then, I'm pointing out the fact that Majority of the players here call a character cheap because everyone else call them that.
There are screenshots to prove Snake is broken.

Just because of these two moves and alot of tech's a characters gets called Cheap.
Hell some don't even bring up a ---Valid--- point.

I'm not defending Snake just because i love the MGS series, Hell in my opinion Ike is far more enjoyable then Snake even though Ike's recovery can be easily gimped

Anyway this is my last post for today, i'm off to bed

Did you play in any tourneys?

every attack that Snake has is useful to a high extent.

I really don't care if you enjoy Ike.

 

[rm88]

1.) Can't win against them

I can, but only with Dedede. The rest of my characters should not be at such a disadvantage against Snake. I tried Snake once, for like 4 or 5 matches... and I was able to defeat one of my best Brawl partner's best character once. It's easy to be an above decent Snake, I'm struggling to be good with Mario. Snake requires skill, but trying to beat him with Jigglypuff takes way, WAY more skill.

2.) Two "broken" moves.

One of my Snake-maning friends decided to play without Utilt and Ftilt for a couple of matches. He lost all of them >_< He did decently, but far from what a tilting Snake can do. So yeah, those two moves are a big deal. And he has lots of strenghts, not just the tilts.

3.) Having Two projectiles that can actually be tossed or shot with.

Well, he outcamps practically every character in the game, and by far. This forces his opponents to approach, and there's no safe way to approach him. I don't find his projectiles that bad, but such a good character having the best projectile game in Brawl is kind of ridiculous.

 

[| Big D |]

He may be considered by some cheap. I believe people should stop limiting themselves and say a character is cheap and get better. All characters can be beat and Snake is no exception.

 

[NeroDB]

Did you play in any tourneys?

every attack that Snake has is useful to a high extent.

I really don't care if you enjoy Ike.

I have, recently i couldn't be bothered anymore with Tourneys.

I can, but only with Dedede. The rest of my characters should not be at such a disadvantage against Snake. I tried Snake once, for like 4 or 5 matches... and I was able to defeat one of my best Brawl partner's best character once. It's easy to be an above decent Snake, I'm struggling to be good with Mario. Snake requires skill, but trying to beat him with Jigglypuff takes way, WAY more skill.

You're setting my point straight, Snake does have alot have advantages against MOST characters, it's just the fact it takes way more skill to beat a Snake player due to his projectiles and techs. Everyone can play snake decently but then there is a huge difference between a decent Snake player and a Snake pro. Your combo's like any other character require timing.

One of my Snake-maning friends decided to play without Utilt and Ftilt for a couple of matches. He lost all of them >_< He did decently, but far from what a tilting Snake can do. So yeah, those two moves are a big deal. And he has lots of strenghts, not just the tilts.

Even then without those moves, How can that make Snake cheap. Like the majority says Snake's recovery is cheap, he's a heavyweight. I myself, basically never-rarely use the F tilt or U tilt, Snake is way more fun to play with when it comes to his projectiles-Mines

Well, he outcamps practically every character in the game, and by far. This forces his opponents to approach, and there's no safe way to approach him. I don't find his projectiles that bad, but such a good character having the best projectile game in Brawl is kind of ridiculous.

His projectiles does do good damage compared to others but characters like Mario, Fox team have the ability to reflect them, sure you may not reflect every hit but you have the ability to do so. After using the nikita there are frames that leave him open aswell, that's if your close enough. Every character has their downfall, if it wasn't for the tilts close combat would've been his weakness

 

[NeroDB]

Double post -.-

 

[NeroDB]

Triple post, sorry

 

[Samuelson]

The only thing thats really cheap about Snake is his Utilt and Ftilt range and his weight.

 

[Alus]

^*ahem* thank you samulson... that has saved us a lot of work...

 

[Siojinettes]

You're setting my point straight, Snake does have alot have advantages against MOST characters, it's just the fact it takes way more skill to beat a Snake player due to his projectiles and techs. Everyone can play snake decently but then there is a huge difference between a decent Snake player and a Snake pro. Your combo's like any other character require timing.

Yeah you just pretty much admitted he's over powered.

 

[Gindler]

Then it certainly defeats the purpose for those type of people to whine about it. Definatly if they take part of Tourney's or competitive play. Snake does have alot of advantages specially against light weighted characters but in my opinion i don't think it's right to call a character cheap just because you either

1.) Can't win against them
2.) Two "broken" moves.
3.) Having Two projectiles that can actually be tossed or shot with.

Seriously i don't think a snake player can plant a C4, Proxy mine, Nikita Two grenades at the same time

1.) I can, and with Yoshi and Ness...that pretty much says he's beatable...although these too have pretty good edgeguarding games and Snake just asks for that.

2.) two very "broken" moves. I hate getting knee locked for a while (and no that doesn't take long to learn, took me 5 whole minutes to get timing down)

3.) I know nade vs. yoshi a snake WON'T do. Eggs detonate them for 20 damage (egg + nade explosion)


But yeah I think they made Snake too heavy...he weighs more than Ike who is bigger and has an enormous sword, and he weighs more than a dinosaur and we all know no human does

And I don't see why snake mains argue. Every character has something cheap about them...MKs everything except his weight, and Snake has his tilts and weight. Other characters have stuff but yeah...cheap is such a strong word.

 

[rm88]

Yeah you just pretty much admitted he's over powered.

Exactly >_<

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Basically, 80% of the people who agreed on Snake being cheap are right. The other 20% are either ridiculously stupid or Snake users themselves.

Metaknight compared to Snake is not cheap. He's pretty good at chaining, his speed is good, and his smashes do kill at low percentages but he has alot of "huge" downfalls at the same time, defense is one.

Anyways, onto Snakes cheap abilities.

NeroDb, You asked that how does being heavy and fast make you cheap, correct? You basically answered yourself. He's both a overpowered heavy weight and a fast attacker at the same time.

Broken/ranged tilts that could kill at 80-110%, Projectiles which could rack up damage quite easily and eventually kill, an F-smash that is faster/harder/less lagged then King Ddd's, A good air game, and all along with being the 3rd heaviest in the game (first if on the ground).

Now..tell me, how do you not find that cheap?

 

[Cecilanius]

His tilts compensate for his lack of instant smashes. Imagine how Snake would be like if his tilts were nerfed. I would be trying to use the AAA combo or aerials the whole match which would be the useless. How would you hit some players?

Now go get some tissues. Blow your nose a bit.

 

[NeroDB]

Exactly >_<

I'm not denying the fact he is overpowered i'm denying the word "Cheap" being used on a character that isn't.

If we want to get to the details why Snake is a heavyweight is due to the gear, To be even more precise on the detail of the character itself he's even wearing his Infinite Bandana.

Snake is overpowered he was supposedly meant to be weak on the close combat part while his projectiles were his main attacks. They unfortunatly failed on that. They overpowered Snakes final hits in his combo's including the Aerial A one.

They didn't balance Snake as it should've been expected.

I forgot to mention, The character itself "Solid Snake" is a Combat Veteran with almost no flaws.

In my opinion, Every SS game had a flaw, In this game, every character has been unbalanced-Nerfed-Overpowered in some way. IF snake does come back in SSB4 He'll be nerfed for sure.

As Gindler mentioned cheap is a strong word just because they lack disadvantages. And this proves any player can beat a snake player

 

[Siojinettes]

I'm not denying the fact he is overpowered i'm denying the word "Cheap" being used on a character that isn't.

If we want to get to the details why Snake is a heavyweight is due to the gear, To be even more precise on the detail of the character itself he's even wearing his Infinite Bandana.

Snake is overpowered he was supposedly meant to be weak on the close combat part while his projectiles were his main attacks. They unfortunatly failed on that. They overpowered Snakes final hits in his combo's including the Aerial A one.

They didn't balance Snake as it should've been expected.

I forgot to mention, The character itself "Solid Snake" is a Combat Veteran with almost no flaws.

In my opinion, Every SS game had a flaw, In this game, every character has been unbalanced-Nerfed-Overpowered in some way. IF snake does come back in SSB4 He'll be nerfed for sure.

As Gindler mentioned cheap is a strong word just because they lack disadvantages. And this proves any player can beat a snake player

Of course characters aren't cheap people are, Meta knights tornado Snakes stats are over powered techniques which people abuse, which makes other player frustrated which people say are cheap. It's just a misconception a slang, a replacement just like the word ignorant people don't use the right term.

 

[punked_25]

His tilts...GRRR! His JABS can kill too. -.-

I wonder if there's a thread like this in the MK forums, I'd like to express my feelings there too.

 

[punked_25]

Darn...couldn't spot one in the MK forums.

 

[rm88]

His tilts compensate for his lack of instant smashes. Imagine how Snake would be like if his tilts were nerfed. I would be trying to use the AAA combo or aerials the whole match which would be the useless.

This makes no sense. By your logic, every character without instant smashes should have broken tilts, right? Well, they don't. Dedede, Ike, Peach, Jigglypuff... lots of characters lack instant smashes, and they lack ridiculous tilts as well. He is overpowered, get over it. I don't know why Snake mains have such a hard time accepting Snake is overpowered @_@ I accept Dedede is too heavy for his vertical recovery, and his chaingrab is ****.

How would you hit some players?

LOL, try some underpowered characters, you're way too used to Snake.

I'm not denying the fact he is overpowered i'm denying the word "Cheap" being used on a character that isn't.

Well, that's my point, he's overpowered. I don't like the word 'cheap' either.

If we want to get to the details why Snake is a heavyweight is due to the gear, To be even more precise on the detail of the character itself he's even wearing his Infinite Bandana.

Snake is overpowered he was supposedly meant to be weak on the close combat part while his projectiles were his main attacks. They unfortunatly failed on that. They overpowered Snakes final hits in his combo's including the Aerial A one.

They didn't balance Snake as it should've been expected.

I forgot to mention, The character itself "Solid Snake" is a Combat Veteran with almost no flaws.

Sorry, but this is irrelevant. There would be no way to beat Superman in the upcoming DC VS Mortal Kombat game >_< They have to balance the game regardless of how powerful the character is in the original game. I mean, look at Falco or G&W, they don't even fight in their games...

And this proves any player can beat a snake player

Yeah, but a Jigglypuff main should not be at such a disadvantage. Balance issues are common in fighting games, it's not that hard to accept.

I don't want to sound like a whiner (I deliberately play underpowered characters... with the exception of Dedede), but saying Snake is not overpowered, or saying a character deserves to be overpowered is ridiculous.

 

[NeroDB]

Actually regarding Superman this has been explained, Personally i don't care about DC vs MK but my brother is, but anyway the reason Superman can be beaten is because he's in the realm of MK not the realm of DC, this allows him to be beaten, so he has two weaknesses instead of one. As for Falco and G&W they indeed have never fought, although i can safely say Falco is nearly a clone of Fox. We never saw Fox using Hand to hand he did use a staff in Star Fox Adventures.
Snake on the other hand has had his own series for quite awhile now, For Snake fans they did keep the character as it should be, He does have the lowest prone but in all mgs games he does prone like that. All the moves except the aerials and F tilt was not in the MGS series,

And we can't say Super smash is realistic when we're talking about weight. For example, Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle is heavier then Ivysaur "LOLZ WUT?"
There are characters that have no proper reason to be heavier then the other.

 

[Cecilanius]

This makes no sense. By your logic, every character without instant smashes should have broken tilts, right? Well, they don't. Dedede, Ike, Peach, Jigglypuff... lots of characters lack instant smashes, and they lack ridiculous tilts as well. He is overpowered, get over it. I don't know why Snake mains have such a hard time accepting Snake is overpowered @_@ I accept Dedede is too heavy for his vertical recovery, and his chaingrab is ****.


LOL, try some underpowered characters, you're way too used to Snake.

Stop putting words into my mouth. You do not understand what I am thinking. I meant, smashes that could be used in damaging the opponent to escape from the opponent's onslaught. Excuse my unclarity. It's hard typing what I am thinking at the moment. Oh and, thanks for generalizing the whole Snake player's community too. Real nice...

I do not want to try "underpowered" characters, as you say, because I don't believe in underpowered and overpowered. I actually use everybody, now in days, and have fun.

 

[rm88]

Stop putting words into my mouth

Excuse my unclarity

Ok ^^

I do not want to try "underpowered" characters, as you say, because I don't believe in underpowered and overpowered. I actually use everybody, now in days, and have fun.

Sadly, there are both overpowered and underpowered characters in fighting games.

 

[Cecilanius]

Ok ^^


Sadly, there are both overpowered and underpowered characters in fighting games.

Well, I guess so. What can you do...ya know? *shrugs* Everyone has their opinions and I'm sorry if I was too harsh.

But I understand what everyone is saying on how he is broken and how he isn't. But, it's a good excuse to give people the confidence to be able to beat him, I suppose. :] I'm using the term "excuse" lightly, don't think of it as a degrading term. I'm sure people will find ways around his tilts and such to make him seem worse. Heh, Futile has done a good job at that. xD

 

[napZzz]

Snake isn't broken =_=

he has too many weaknesses and atually has counters to keep him off that word, unlike meta knight...

 

[ADHD]

Snake isn't broken =_=

he has too many weaknesses and atually has counters to keep him off that word, unlike meta knight...

Still he's a beast and really good snakes have such good spacing I find them alot harder than metaknight no matter who the player is

 

[rm88]

Well, I guess so. What can you do...ya know? *shrugs* Everyone has their opinions and I'm sorry if I was too harsh.

But I understand what everyone is saying on how he is broken and how he isn't. But, it's a good excuse to give people the confidence to be able to beat him, I suppose. :] I'm using the term "excuse" lightly, don't think of it as a degrading term. I'm sure people will find ways around his tilts and such to make him seem worse. Heh, Futile has done a good job at that. xD

Yeah, I'm in no way implying that people should not use him or anything >_< I actually enjoy playing against him, I'm a natural low-tier character player. I just don't agree when people say some characters are not overpowered/underpowered, all my Snake maining friends constantly joke about his range, recovery, etc. And yeah, hopefully people will find ways around his tilts, it's just that playing against him feels so different than playaing against the rest of the cast, we have to get used to it -_- Praxis, one of my favorite Peach players, owns Snake ^^

 

[lax guy5]

Cuz people think projectiles are cheap. And his land mines.