Why is Zelda Low Tier??

[RoyalBlood]

Seriously she has some high priority attacks, reflector, a good projectile and lightning kick totally ***** everyone lol also Zelda's back throw kills at like 130 at least she should be middle tier

 

[Pink Reaper]

Actually, most of her attacks are LOW priority, her reflector sucks, her projectile sucks, her throws only kill if you dont DI and her lightning kick is ******** hard to hit with. Also, in order for her to move up to mid tier, everyone above her would have to move down. Do you really think Zelda's better than all those characters?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

...her lightning kick is ******** hard to hit with.

Nah, it´s not so bad after some practising. Not too spammable or anything, but still extremely good due to the awesome killing power.

But reasons why Zelda is so low: terrible against opponents attacking from below, terrible projectile, slow, lightweight, no real spike (Dair works only with high percents), not very good edgeguarding options, easy to combo and hard to combo with, small amount of players. At least those come to mind, there´s propably more...

 

[RoyalBlood]

Nah, it´s not so bad after some practising. Not too spammable or anything, but still extremely good due to the awesome killing power.

But reasons why Zelda is so low: terrible against opponents attacking from below, terrible projectile, slow, lightweight, no real spike (Dair works only with high percents), not very good edgeguarding options, easy to combo and hard to combo with, small amount of players. At least those come to mind, there´s propably more...

terrible against opponents attacking from below

Well that's true

terrible projectile

It's actually quite good if you know how to use it IMO Usually i don't try to hit people with it, i direct it to where i think people will come for example when playing with CPUs especially Fox or Peach they love to grab you so i place Din's Fire beside Zelda, they come grab me and Din's Fire explodes, thus freeing me from the grab, maybe it could save you from being chaingrabbed, also it´s good for juggling people

slow, lightweight

True, true

no real spike

Sometimes works nicely, i stand at the edge and when someone tries to recover i use it, for example I´m at the edge so someone tries to recover like Fox or Captain Falcon i jump and use it, they´re sent downwards i´m still at the edge they try to recover again using Up-B so i short-hop again and use it again = KO they´re sent lower

not very good edgeguarding options

F-smash, Dair, Lightning Kick, D-smash, Din's Fire

easy to combo and hard to combo with

True,actually Zelda has a lot of combo potential at low damages

Anyway thanks for your response Half-Split Soul

 

[Half-Split Soul]

The reasons why I think Din isn´t very good in melee are:

1: It´s so freaking slow!
2: It hasn´t got too much knockback or damage
3: It´s easy to dodge

F-smash, Dair, Lightning Kick, D-smash, Din's Fire

I think I expressed myself pretty bad: I agree that those are good (or actually great) edgeguarding moves, but what I meant is that Zelda often can´t follow opponents out of the stage very well due the nature of her recovery and midair attacks, so often the best option is to stay on the stage and that just doesn´t work against some characters at all , but when the situation is right, her down- and forwardsmashes are awesome and dair owns bowser and DK . Din is good for damaging, but it sends enemies upwards, so it often helps them instead of really harming them.

True,actually Zelda has a lot of combo potential at low damages

Sometimes yes, but trying to chase someone with Zelda with combos is simply impossible. Most of her combos are few hits ending with kick or something like that, so it´s completely different level compared to spacies for example. Of course I´m not saying that Zelda should combo like them, no no no, but that thing must be remembered when thinking tier list.

Anyway thanks for your response Half-Split Soul

No problem =]

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think one of Zelda's biggest problems has to be her combo'ing. Her low knockback moves (dtilt, jab, dair, nair) have too much lag to set up for anything and her fast moves have too much knockback to combo from.

Her recovery also kinda sucks to sweetspot and is rather difficult from below the stage. The fair and the bair aren't hard too hard to space out though...

 

[TheLake]

Shes super super slow.

Like "man this sucks" slow.

Her grab is slow, her run is slow, her fall speed is slow.

Shes slow. Thats why she is low tier.

But that makes everything about her all the more epic. Shes the sniper of smash after all. Just replace snipe with lightning kick of course (;

 

[Geist]

Shes slow. Thats why she is low tier.

ganondorf? >_>


Zelda is so low on the tier lists because of all of the weaknesses that she has.
One of the reasons is that she is slow, but she falls short of alot of other characters because she doesn't have anything to compensate that with.
Her moves have lag in the beginning to the end (except arials) of the animations and they have low priority. The only really reliable moves that she has is fsmash, fair and bair.
Anything else is alright, situational or useless.
She's also floaty and light, which is the best combination for getting comboed with...

 

[Deathknight]

Zelda is low tier because people don't use her in tournaments much

 

[Pink Shinobi]

nah...zelda has one of the best moves in the game, Down-B!

 

[Pink Reaper]

nah...zelda has one of the best moves in the game, Down-B!

OMGLOLZBESTJOKEEVAR SO ORIGINAL

 

[TheLake]

ganondorf? >_>

Ganon can waveland all over the place

Zelda cant

Zeldas slow

Ganon also has dat there wizard kick

It hurts

Zelda has down b

blegh...*barfs everywhere*

Ganon can waveland all over the place...

 

[ss118]

nah...zelda has one of the best moves in the game, Down-B!

win + 10 char

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Ganon can waveland all over the place

Zelda cant

Zeldas slow

Ganon also has dat there wizard kick

It hurts

Zelda has down b

blegh...*barfs everywhere*

Ganon can waveland all over the place...

Ganondorf can kill most of the characters easily around 80% with almost all of his attacks

Zelda can kill most of the characters easily around 80% with two of her attacks

Ganondorf has that freaking annoying Up-b

Ganondorf is very heavy

Zelda is very lightweight

Ganondorf´s stab is the most irritating attack in whole SSBM

Zelda´s stab is just like Ganondorf´s, only slower, weaker and has no knockback

Huoh...

 

[Zone]

How did I miss this post.

Anyways.

Din's Fire
Never good to use in nearly any situation unless the stage is really huge, or there are obstacles to meet on the way to Zelda. Only other times you can really use it. Is Right after a kick, while your opponent is stunned and can't approach. However, They will recover from the hit stun before they are hit by din's fire most likely. And it isn't hard to dodge. The Best use I've found for Din's fire is vs Samus. When Samus is bomb recovering way too freaking far away to do anything. You can toss a din's fire for extra damage. Come on, it's samus she's making it back anyways. Although it can lead to cool things, It has low efficiency vs other moves. (It still has it's uses, just very very low)

Priority Attacks
You are actually half right aboutt his. But alot of her high priority attacks have long lag and get you punished. And sometimes it doesn't even completely out prioritize people's high priority moves. Like if Falco Down-air's Zelda after a double jump and you know the d-air is coming. You can up-tilt and it will trade hits. Nayru's Love is pretty high priority, it even has invincibility frames. However, Again if tricked and you don't hit them with it. You're gonna get punished. (Also don't use this move on someone's shield >.>). Her priority isn't extremely bad, it's just they don't end quick enough for alot of her high priority moves to be safe. They come out pretty fast, they just don't end fast. So it's a big bargain.

Recovery
People john about her recover alot. Sure it isn't super sexy like some other characters recovery, but there are high tier characters who have it much worse. Falcon, Fox, Falco >.>
But yes, Unless you can sweet spot the edge before they get to it. You can either take a 50/50 chance and go for the edge anyways. Alot of the times they'll jump over the edge assuming you didn't take the risk. Or you can play it safe, land on the stage with lots of lag. And get re-hit. Her recovery isn't super, but I don't really think it's horribly dumb either. I mean Ganon can't even sweet spot. Poor guy.

Reflector
I hope you don't mean to use this vs ANY projectile except Samus' fully charged B ever. Samus' fully charged B, leaves Samus Stunned long enough so She can't jump over her own beam and punish you. Anyone else with a good projectile, can trick you and come over and punish you. I suggest Powershield, it's unexpected, It can lead to grabs for Zelda vs Falco (Which is rare enough), and it ends fast.

Edge Game
To be honest, she can't grab the edge as fast as everyone else. You got to be at the edge like 5 times close to wave dash off and grab it. You could reverse angle up+B to grab it which really isn't that fast either. Or just plain turn around, jump and grab it. Her Down-smash is ok vs some people's recovery. mixing this up with ledge hogging. So they may want to not always sweet spot if your edge hogging. If they failt he sweet spot down smash in the face. Naryu's love is good against people like falco that try to fly pass zelda. Kick can outrange alot of peoples recovery. However, Zelda's Edge game is only as good if not less than anyone elses. I told you her edge game kinda. But who truly can't even do that? Pretty much everyone has a move to punish non-sweet spotters, everyone can grab the edge, probably faster than Zelda. Everyone can jump off the edge and hit people. Although I'll admit not as far. Zelda can hit a magnified Captain falcon with a kick on some stages and make it back. In conclusion, Her edge game isn't really superior to characters above her that much.

Throw's Suck
Well they are ok against Fast fallers, and medium floatys at very low percients when you upthrow. Other than that. EVERYONE can DI her down throw. and her other throws don't really K.O. Why would you want to K.O. with b-throw at 120% when a kick can do that probably atleast 90%

YOU CAN SMASH DI HER SMASH ATTACKS
Sadly, Her upsmash which is great to use out of shield. Can be Smash DI'd out of, and then your punished. Same with her forward smash. They are unreliable. Do I still use them? Yes. but that doesn't stop them from being inconsistent. I mean, you already have to use mad spacing to trick them into a smash attack int he first place. Then they get a 2nd chance to get out of it through smash DI? and you get punished for it? Doesn't sound fair.

Her up-air is cool, just largely hard to hit with, and comes out slow. Hard to space with to, largely cuz of how slow it comes out.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Zone has cleared the table, although there´re few things I´d like to add/comment to:

Recovery

Everything said about this is true, but I´d just like to remind, that Farore can become completely useless if you´re hit for example under the edge of FD. Anyone else can just wallhug their way back, but Zelda is forced to fall to her doom.

EVERYONE can DI her down throw.

True, but it still works as a great setup for a kick sometimes.

YOU CAN SMASH DI HER SMASH ATTACKS
Sadly, Her upsmash which is great to use out of shield. Can be Smash DI'd out of, and then your punished. Same with her forward smash. They are unreliable.

This cannot be highlighted enough. When you hit someone with smash just to find that you made 1% damage and are flying out of the screen you´ll be pissed off. The thing is, that her U- and F-smashes can almost always be Smash DI:d. If someone wants proof of this, fight LV.9 computer, any character (yeah I know, computers don´t tell anything, they´re completely different than humans etc.) and just try to hit it with your F-smash succesfully even once. If your computers are nowhere near mine, they´ll Smash DI out of it with the freguency of 99,9999999999999...%.

Her up-air is cool, just largely hard to hit with, and comes out slow. Hard to space with to, largely cuz of how slow it comes out.

The worst thing is, it looks stronger than it actually is. What you see is a huge explosion, but what you see is an attack, that is hard to hit and almost never actually kills, just sents enemies very high.

 

[Zone]

Stuff about Setting up a kick with Downthrow

You can't kick anyone after Down-throw ever, If they DI away.

I agree with most of everything else you said. Also aobut the under the stage thing. If Zelda is really low under the level (Not underneath it persay like you mentioned but parallel with the edge. Not only is she now easy to ledge hog because after her up+B she can't really DI left or right after the end of it for a good while. Atleast falcon can Direct himself back and forth pretty soon after his Up+B is over. it takes a while for Zelda's ability to DI after Up+B to kick in for some reason.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

That's not true. You can dthrow someone off the edge, walk off and double jump into a fair even if they DI =P

 

[Zone]

That's not true. You can dthrow someone off the edge, walk off and double jump into a fair even if they DI =P

>.>' That's not even connected to be a combo. If they DI away, you can't kick them before they can regain multiple options like air-dodge, f-air, jump, up+B.

Anyways if you want to do your version of kicking someone off stage it's better to back-throw.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

[13:06] MdrnDayMercutio: Zelda was bottom tier?
[13:06] Emmy: yeah
[13:06] Emmy: but yoshi wasn't the worst of the worst
[13:06] Emmy: i would have divided the tier list differently
[13:06] MdrnDayMercutio: Wow. Maybe it's cause I've only seen yours but I wouldn't of guessed she was bottom
[13:07] Emmy: yeah definitely bottom
[13:07] Emmy: she can't combo anyone legitimately
[13:07] Emmy: i mean inescapable combos
[13:08] MdrnDayMercutio: True enough.
[13:08] MdrnDayMercutio: I'm so under informed in Melee
[13:08] Emmy: but almost every other character had an inescapable combo that does more damage than the kick, some were death combos
[13:09] Emmy: also, zelda had the worst wavedash in the game, one of the worst runs and dashdance, one of the worst spotdodges
[13:10] Emmy: she was one of the only characters who had a better roll than spotdodge or wavedash

 

[Recognize]

Wow lol.. I looked at this and was like "What dumb **** thinks this?" then I saw it was melee. D:

 

[Half-Split Soul]

You can't kick anyone after Down-throw ever, If they DI away.

Bowser

But also if there´s a level that can be dropped trought, you can downthrow and land a kick as enemy lands on it. Some players also panic and double jump as soon as possible, leading to a perfect opening... I understand what you mean and agree that usually there´re no ways to combo downthrow to kick, but it´s still sometimes possible. Mindgame-related setups are also always possibility.

 

[Zone]

Bowser

But also if there´s a level that can be dropped trought, you can downthrow and land a kick as enemy lands on it. Some players also panic and double jump as soon as possible, leading to a perfect opening... I understand what you mean and agree that usually there´re no ways to combo downthrow to kick, but it´s still sometimes possible. Mindgame-related setups are also always possibility.

How can you mindgame them into messing up their DI? >.> She puts you on the floor and shoots you with magic for like 3 seconds. That's plenty of time to realize your being downthrown and DI :D

I can't visualize what you are talking about with the drop through level. I'd like to see an Example.

Do you mean (Battle Field) Say your standing UNDER the drop through platform, on the main platform. Are you saying if you throw them down, they land on the platform and you kick them right when their body hits it? I don't think that works. I think your enemy has to DI up or something to go that High after a downthrow. If they are holding away from my experience they fly pretty horizontally for the most part. And besides if they land on the platform. They can tech and avoid the kick. Tech roll left or tech roll right, lay there, tap A to stand up and do their get up attack. Of course you can tech chase then kick. But they do got some options to mix it up and screw up your chances to kick them. And again this is assuming they can even land on the platform like you say.

If my example was NOT what you ment. Could you re-explain please :D

EDIT: I'll test it sometime.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

How can you mindgame them into messing up their DI? >.> She puts you on the floor and shoots you with magic for like 3 seconds. That's plenty of time to realize your being downthrown and DI :D

With unbelievable high skill level
*cough cough*
No, but if they try to attack you directly from your throw or something like that you can kick them. It happens very seldom, but again, it still sometimes happens.

I can't visualize what you are talking about with the drop through level. I'd like to see an Example.

You pretty much descriped what I ment, only that it works better in Dream Land when those little platforms that appear from nowhere are at the right height. If they are in good place and you´ve spaced yourself perfectly, enemy can´t DI away fast enough. Also, they can´t tech if they tried to shield your throw and you throw as soon as possible. I´ll try to find a vid of this happening, but can´t promise anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda is ****. You don't know what you're talking about.

Play blue, kick a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj4jLVVAYXI

 

[UberBlackCleric]

Zelda is ****.

NO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheLake]

Play blue is the best advice you can receive

Besides of course anything zone or darkmusician say

 

[Atacusbebop123]

Dsmash to taunt

thats all i have to say

 

[Zone]

I got a Money match of my Zelda vs Eggz's Fox. Gonna ask if I can upload it in a private message. And I'll share it with the zelda players
I also got one vs Iori's Mewtwo.

I fought M2k at Georgia. He 2stocked my Zelda :\ no surprise there.

I also played various other players. Can't remember all their names. My Marth got 4stocked by a fox. then the match immediately after that I went Zelda and got 1 stocked with him at 70% ish. Makes me think twice about thinking my high tiers were good. Just need more experience. I spent most of my tourneys going all Zelda. I should spend more going all high tier.

Geez I wish I recorded more matches :\

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Play blue, kick a lot.

Okay, I´m taking notes:

1) play blue - already done

2) kick a lot - already done

Wow, I must be at least decent Zelda after all!

Match describes

Me want see your matches! Geez I wish you recorded more matches :\

And as a side note, I played two of my friends in extremely noobish FFA match. They were Fox and Falco and I won them with Zelda in FD.

 

[Deleted member]

m2k thinks my zelda is the most **** zelda in the world by far.

win.

 

[TheLake]

Nooooice zone! Upload dat shiz son!

And Oooooh an umbereon...i hear they play mean zeldas O_O

 

[Zone]

Nooooice zone! Upload dat shiz son!

And Oooooh an umbereon...i hear they play mean zeldas O_O

lol its been uploaded >.> In a new thread anyways.

EDIT: btw what happened to your name mow.

 

[TheLake]

Links! Im to lazy to look!

 

[Zone]

Links! Im to lazy to look!

lol it's in Character Specific Zelda

 

[NJzFinest]

Umbreon...Mow has been the best Zelda for hella long time now.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm the only one who plays blue besides Mikey Lenetia. Even if I quit, he'll prolly **** anyone else going for the title.

 

[NJzFinest]

Kawn plays blue

 

[TheLake]

Didnt kawn quit? I thought he used green? O_o

Oh and i use blue dag bluemit! *insert angry intimidating face* MOOOW one of these days! (and by one of these days...somtime this summer ^_^)

 

[NJzFinest]

Ryoko played green.
Captian Jack played red.
Emmy played red.
Magus played white.
Wesley plays red.
DoH plays pink but used to use white.
Plank plays blue.
Darkmusician plays green.
WoZ plays white
I think Azen plays red, not to sure.
I personally used blue.