Why Items should be tournament legal in brawl

[Raustblackdragon]

okay, before you just dismiss me as a n00b, I'm mainly talking about Smash Balls.

Why do I say this?

Because Final smashes, unlike regular items, are a PART of a character. suppose ALL items, including smash balls, were banned in tournaments for brawl:

-Metaknight's sucky final smash is no longer a factor, and he rises in tier above what he should be.

-Marth's AWESOME final smash is also no longer a factor, and Marth becomes worse than he normally is.

Tiers are based on tournament play. Banning smash balls in any future tournaments would make the tier list GROSSLY inaccurate.

What do you guys think?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Characters had there own unique dash attacks when holding items.

OOOOOOOH.

 

[RedMage8BT]

I disagree... there have been better arguments for items and none of them worked.

Why SHOULD Final Smashes be factored into the tier list? They're solely based on an outside force.

 

[maxieman]

Dammit now someone is gonna make a thread called

"WHY SO AND SO IS WRONG AND IM RIGHT AND ITEMS ARE GAY"

 

[SmashBro99]

inb4

When I get the game I'll try this out myself rather then people just saying no to it, maybe but probably not.

 

[Ryan-K]

-Metaknight's sucky final smash is no longer a factor, and he rises in tier above what he should be.

-Marth's AWESOME final smash is also no longer a factor, and Marth becomes worse than he normally is.

The fact that marth is arguably the best in the game already should give you a subtle hint.

 

[Boa]

I'm all for some items to be tournament-legal, but it's kind of annoying for luck-based items(Pokeball! GOLDEEN!?) to have influence on who may or may not win a fight.

 

[Nowfist]

IMHO, Smash Balls should be the only Item not banned from tourneys, due to the fact that some of them require lining up to get full effect or may even be useless if missed with.

 

[jakeadactyl]

i agree. they are a part of the character and also take skill and timing to use for the most part (as opposed to just tossing a bomb). they are not as unpredictable nor table turning like items like pokeballs. and they don't just sit there, it takes some sort of skill to acquire a smash ball.

but since when is metaknights's fs sucky?

 

[Nowfist]

but since when is metaknights's fs sucky?

Since it only does 40 percent and does the same knockback as Marths UTilt would do...

 

[WarxePB]

-They're a part of the character: Every character also has unique animations for weapons. That makes them "part of the character" as well. FS's are more specialized, sure, but it boils down to the same thing.

-They take more skill to use: And what if your opponent(s) are off the stage when a Smash Ball appears? Then there's no opposition, and if you're fast enough, your off-stage opponent is screwed.

As I said in another thread (that's still on the first page), competitive-level Smash is about skill. Items take skill to use properly, sure, but they don't reflect the true skill of the player. And I think an intense match between two evenly-matched opponents is a lot more exciting than two people chucking items at each other.

 

[RedMage8BT]

As I said in another thread (that's still on the first page), competitive-level Smash is about skill. Items take skill to use properly, sure, but they don't reflect the true skill of the player. And I think an intense match between two evenly-matched opponents is a lot more exciting than two people chucking items at each other.

Tell that to Peach and Link mains.

 

[jakeadactyl]

-They take more skill to use: And what if your opponent(s) are off the stage when a Smash Ball appears? Then there's no opposition, and if you're fast enough, your off-stage opponent is screwed.

and while your busy chasing the smash ball, your opponent gets an easy recovery and potentially dodges the final smash anyway.


it seems pretty fair to me, but i have never played the game yet, and any videos i have seen with smash balls on have been pretty fair to both characters regardless

 

[Raustblackdragon]

-They're a part of the character: Every character also has unique animations for weapons. That makes them "part of the character" as well.

That's a weapon attack. This is an all powerful attack that has a huge effect on how good a character is.

I'm saying to keep smash balls in for the sake of the tier list.

 

[brawlmaniac]

inb4

When I get the game I'll try this out myself rather then people just saying no to it, maybe but probably not.

Rofl I wasn't expecting that!!

 

[MookieRah]

I'm saying to keep smash balls in for the sake of the tier list.

The problem with that is that a lot of alright characters have bad final smashes and a lot of great characters have retardedly good final smashes.

Seriously, we know what we are talking about, and our reasoning for not wanting final smashes in is quite valid. I don't know any single known smasher say they think that smash balls should be in tournaments since the game came out in Japan. Even SP said he wouldn't want them in tournaments in his pro smash balls thread.

 

[Corner-Trap]

Why Items should be banned in brawl: They're random

 

[Raustblackdragon]

The problem with that is that a lot of alright characters have bad final smashes and a lot of great characters have retardedly good final smashes.

Seriously, we know what we are talking about, and our reasoning for not wanting final smashes in is quite valid. I don't know any single known smasher say they think that smash balls should be in tournaments since the game came out in Japan. Even SP said he wouldn't want them in tournaments in his pro smash balls thread.

So you're saying that luck should never overpower skill? That makes sense.

But then why isn't Mr. Game and watch tournament illegal?

his forward B is sometimes a one hit KO that's really easy to connect with.

And Peach can pull out a death turnip that also is very powerful.

What's the difference?

 

[Dustlord]

I agree, items are absolutley fine.

When nothing's on the line.

But when there's a match with a lot of money on the line, do you really want a Bob-omb to pop right in front of you while charging a smash? Or to knock Ike around on Battlefield over and over around only to knock him close to a sma sh ball he uses to take out your last stock when you had ZERO damage? That's why the Gamestop tournament is really going to suck even after the horrible rules of the first round.

Really, there's a reason tournaments use different rules than a friendly match between friends. And hey, if you want to use items, you can do that at home with your friends. It really shouldn't bother you that some people play without items.

 

[Dustlord]

I agree, items are absolutley fine.

When nothing's on the line.

But when there's a match with a lot of money on the line, do you really want a Bob-omb to pop right in front of you while charging a smash? Or to knock Ike around on Battlefield over and over around only to knock him close to a smash ball he uses to take out your last stock when you had ZERO damage? That's why the Gamestop tournament is really going to suck even after the horrible rules of the first round.

Really, there's a reason tournaments use different rules than a friendly match between friends. And hey, if you want to use items, you can do that at home with your friends. It really shouldn't bother you that some people play without items.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So you're saying that luck should never overpower skill? That makes sense.

But then why isn't Mr. Game and watch tournament illegal?

his forward B is sometimes a one hit KO that's really easy to connect with.

And Peach can pull out a death turnip that also is very powerful.

What's the difference?

The difference is that those features are not removable. Final Smashes are. If we could get rid of the randomness of death turnips, misfires, and 9's, we surely would. It would be so much more strategic if they followed some kind of pattern that could be predicted, and thus manipulated.

In case you haven't noticed, even the most random games (like trading card games) try to minimize randomness. They run the maximum number of essential cards and search cards, while at the same time running the minimum of total cards in thier decks. They do this so that randomness will be less of a factor.

We are simply doing the same thing. We are minimizing randomness as much as possible so that it does not have as large of an impact on the outcome of the match. We do that by allowing multiple matches, counterpicks, banning stages that have random elements to them, ect.

The toggle feature is there. We chose to use it to improve the quality of the competative scene. There is nothing wrong with that and we don't deserve this kind of criticizm. We are playing the game the way that we want. We are the ones that organize the tournaments. We are the ones that make our rules. We are not going to change our rules because we actually like them. They make the matches as skill based as possible, and we find that to not only be fun, but to be fair as well. You can organize and host your own tournaments, but don't expect us to host tournaments for anyone...besides us. That's fair right?

 

[Nicktendo]

God shut up about items in tournaments already

 

[JoJoRukus]

The thread title is a little misleading if what you are refering to in particular is Smash Balls. Final Smashes are a new gameplay mechanic that will need some time and testing before it is determined whether it is tournament friendly, or if people will even want to use them.

As for other items in tournaments (which wasn't your primary purpose in your post but is suggested in the title of the thread), in reality there are problems with the potential of falling explosive objects... I know that crates and barrels can be switched off, but I don't remember if capsules can. If that's the case, then maybe SOME tournaments might try out items.

Then there is the issue of all the items that can have reverse effects, such as the Lightning Bolt shrinking the user rather than the opponents. There are only a few items that work like that, but it creates an air of randomness and gambling. The argument against that is that if you don't want to take the risk, don't pick the item up. Item matches is a game for gamblers, and as such I think some casinoes might want to consider picking up some Item tournies.

Seriously though, there is maaany things to consider when deciding what is fair and what is not in regards to the items and item switching, and in the end its just a little easier to turn the items off.

 

[Sephi_hatu]

Might I recommend this?

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=147012

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^That thread is a very good idea by the way. For anyone who wants to use items in organized competition.

Now we don't have to change our rules, and you can have your items.

It's like getting to eat cake and having pie too!

 

[Froilen]

YEAH!!! only bannanas and clock on very high, four Diddy Kong players in the Spear Pillar stage!!!

 

[P.E]

The struggle for a smash ball is lot of fun but in the end this item has too much influence on the result of a battle.

 

[_NeXuS_]

This argument has no relevance since anyone here arguing for items, will likely never be participating in sanctioned professional tournaments.

Glad we had this chat...