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Why the nerfs?

mariofanpm12

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Why do you think Sakurai nerfed some characters? Like, what specific reason for each character?

I know for Ganondorf. Some casual players in Melee beleived him to be "Godly" and cheap/overpowered due to his incredible power and knockback, and still decent speed. Crazy, no?

So Sakurai nerfed him for the casuals.

Anyone else?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think he tried to balence the characters a bit more, so they were evenly matched.

He messed uped.

(Note i don't hate Brawl cause of this reason, ok?)
 

Problem2

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I think some of it has to do with the character's Final Smash. Sonic for example is considered a low tier character, yet has an awesome final smash, while Metaknight is ranked top tier, but has a final smash with a small hit range that is easily avoidable.
 

Sosuke

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Because he wanted to.
/thread
 

Veggi

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I think he actually tried and just screwed up trying to balance most of the characters.

For MK and Snake I think he just made them better on purpose.

Seriously Snake is the 3rd heaviest character in the game and has a forward tilt that does more than Yoshi's fully charged forward smash. wtfwtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
 

RixMaadi

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I think some of it has to do with the character's Final Smash. Sonic for example is considered a low tier character, yet has an awesome final smash, while Metaknight is ranked top tier, but has a final smash with a small hit range that is easily avoidable.
I doubt he had any idea of which characters would be in what tiers.

I believe he nerfed many to help with balancing, but with newcomers, he had no opinions on if they were considered overpowered or not, so he messed up on balancing some like Meta Knight and Snake.
 

Crystanium

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Why do you think Sakurai nerfed some characters? Like, what specific reason for each character?

I know for Ganondorf. Some casual players in Melee beleived him to be "Godly" and cheap/overpowered due to his incredible power and knockback, and still decent speed. Crazy, no?

So Sakurai nerfed him for the casuals.

Anyone else?
I loved Ganondorf in Melee. He was my alternative character. When I tried Ganondorf out in Brawl, I was disappointed. Strangely, however, I have done quite well with him in several matches (none of them tournies, mind you), and I don't even use him as an alternative. I think he may have potential. For example, I was brawling against a Snake player and a few others. My Samus didn't do well. My Donkey Kong, who, by the way, ***** Snake with ease, didn't do well. So then I thought, "Whatever. I'll just choose whoever." I chose Ganondorf and I started ****** this Snake player. He ended up in last place while I was getting in first. I was all, "What now?" I saved a video of how I beat the living daylights out of that Snake player.
 

OmegaXXII

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sure a handful of returning veterans such as Zelda, Ganon, Samus etc.. got nerfs, but in doing so Skaurai really screwed up in his attempt to balance Brawl, well... at least Bowser didn't get nerfed which is a plus
 

Samuelson

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sure a handful of returning veterans such as Zelda, Ganon, Samus etc.. got nerfs, but in doing so Skaurai really screwed up in his attempt to balance Brawl, well... at least Bowser didn't get nerfed which is a plus
I don't really think that Zelda got nerfed. Whenever i think of the word nerf a picture of Captain Falcon and Sheik come to mind.
 

OmegaXXII

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I don't really think that Zelda got nerfed. Whenever i think of the word nerf a picture of Captain Falcon and Sheik come to mind.
whoops, my bad I meant Sheik, but yea the Captain is another amongst the vetreans that also got nerfed which syas, Sakurai really failed at balncing the game properly.
 

Firus

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Sheik probably got nerfed because Zelda got little attention, which is probably why Zelda got buffed. (I believe she did, anyways.)

Some of the nerfs were to balance the game more... Which he failed at. But some of the nerfs made no sense to me, such as nerfing Samus. In Melee, Samus wasn't high tier or anything, so why the nerf?
I know! That's exactly how I feel! Now poor Samus fails, and got an undeserved nerf. In that case, Sakurai HAD to, HAD to realize what he was doing.

A) Charge Beam is smaller and less powerful. In Melee it was deadly, in Brawl it's hardly so.

B) Super Missiles have terrible knockback. In Melee, I can KO with a Super Missile at 100%. In Brawl I can't even do it at 150%.

C) ALL of her aerials are weaker (although her zair is pretty good when you can land it). Even though her bair is useable still, and can KO, it's not half as deadly as in Melee. Even her Meteor Smash is weaker, although it still does the job.

D) Including Final Smashes, Samus has this supposedly uber-powerful Final Smash, but it's slow, easily avoidable, and doesn't necessarily KO. It can, at most, KO 3 people once, and that's if you're facing some pretty stupid or unlucky (tripping, falling helplessly into it) opponents. With Sonic's, you can easily 2KO 3 people. Then, once you're done, you transform into Zamus, which takes so long that by the time you do any enemies you might've killed will be right at your side with a Smash Attack fully charged. Once you get out of the transforming animation and are Zamus, you've got about 3 seconds where you're helpless, giving your opponent plenty of time to Smash Attack you to the stars. And even if they don't, by using Samus's Final Smash, you're FORCED to play as Zamus, who doesn't even play remotely similarly. They are completely different.

If Sakurai didn't realize what he was doing to Samus, he's pretty **** stupid.

I'd say he nerfed her because Missile Spam and the use of Charge Beam was easy and rewarding, but Pit's Arrow Spam is pretty annoying too, so I doubt that was why.
I'm willing to stick with "He's a complete ***hole."
 

0RLY

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Sheik probably got nerfed because Zelda got little attention, which is probably why Zelda got buffed. (I believe she did, anyways.)



I know! That's exactly how I feel! Now poor Samus fails, and got an undeserved nerf. In that case, Sakurai HAD to, HAD to realize what he was doing.

A) Charge Beam is smaller and less powerful. In Melee it was deadly, in Brawl it's hardly so.
He probably did it so it would have faster charge time. Otherwise, agreed. I cry over this :(

B) Super Missiles have terrible knockback. In Melee, I can KO with a Super Missile at 100%. In Brawl I can't even do it at 150%.
I can't KO with it at 300%

C) ALL of her aerials are weaker (although her zair is pretty good when you can land it). Even though her bair is useable still, and can KO, it's not half as deadly as in Melee. Even her Meteor Smash is weaker, although it still does the job.
Mourns over the loss of nair.

D) Including Final Smashes, Samus has this supposedly uber-powerful Final Smash, but it's slow, easily avoidable, and doesn't necessarily KO. It can, at most, KO 3 people once, and that's if you're facing some pretty stupid or unlucky (tripping, falling helplessly into it) opponents. With Sonic's, you can easily 2KO 3 people. Then, once you're done, you transform into Zamus, which takes so long that by the time you do any enemies you might've killed will be right at your side with a Smash Attack fully charged. Once you get out of the transforming animation and are Zamus, you've got about 3 seconds where you're helpless, giving your opponent plenty of time to Smash Attack you to the stars. And even if they don't, by using Samus's Final Smash, you're FORCED to play as Zamus, who doesn't even play remotely similarly. They are completely different.
I wish they were separate sooooooooooooooooooooo badly.

If Sakurai didn't realize what he was doing to Samus, he's pretty **** stupid.
Somebody on the development team who play tested Samus must've had melee fingers.

I'd say he nerfed her because Missile Spam and the use of Charge Beam was easy and rewarding, but Pit's Arrow Spam is pretty annoying too, so I doubt that was why.
I'm willing to stick with "He's a complete ***hole."
Agreed tenfold.
Mario- Tried to keep balanced, but failed.
Luigi- Tried to make better, but decided to give him poor aerial movement speed.
Peach- Tried to make worse, but she still has a good tier placing.
Bowser- Tried to make better, but still sucks balls.

DK- Made some changes, turned out good just to whoop MK and Snake.
Diddy- The fruits of Sakurai's labor. **** bananas.
Wario- Sakurai obviously doesn't know how people play smash. Too good.
Yoshi- Tried to make better, but still sucks horse feces.

Link- Tried to make faster, solid in all respects except speed and recovery.
Zelda- Tried to make stronger, well she's stronger but still slow.
Sheik- Tried to make weaker, well, she's weak but fast. Basically, they took the good qualities and separated them between the characters making 2 sucky characters, instead of 1 good, 1 sucky.
Ganon- Tried to make slower, they succeeded.
TLink- Made a very annoying to deal with, yet easy to defeat character.

Samus- Tried to make worse, WHYYYYYYY!?!!
Zamus- Sakurai knows nothing of physics. Less weight, more falling speed. Losing a gun and armor, more kill power.
Pit- Sakurai really, really knows how to break a character in more ways than one.
ICs- Tried to make easier to use. They can still infinite, but we already knew that would happen.
ROB- Most broken thing next to MK and Snake. Only difference is that ROB needs more skill to use.

Kirby- Sakurai's right testicle. Annoying voice included. Tried to make better, and succeeded.
MK- Sakurai's left testicle. Sakurai thinks that infinite combo ability, small frame, priority, recovery, range, and kill power is enough to compensate for a light weight. What about jiggs huh?
D3- Sakurai's object between the testes. It's pretty much MK with more weight and chain grabs.
Olimar- Plays most like an ssb64 character. Sucky recovery, but amazing combos, range, power,and priority.

Fox- Tried to make worse, solid character still. He just lacks priority and large hitboxes.
Falco- Tried to make worse. Near god tier er... I mean above god tier. He's Bread tier.
Wolf- Tried make an opposite of the other two. Still has poor recovery, still has good combos.
C.Fal- Sakurai is going to hell for this. No, he deserves worse. Sakurai's going to bottom tier.

Pika- Tried to make better, made the spammiest character in the game. Solid chara, though.
P.T.- Like Zelda+Shiek, only you divide the overall potential by 3 instead of 2.
Lucario- Tried to immitate Mewtwo. THINK OF MORE CREATIVE MOVESETS FOOL! Sakurai thinks that aura is enough to balance him. Maybe if aura affected priority...
Jiggs- Tried to make worse. He succeeded. Jigglypuff fans mourn.

Marth- Tried to make worse without getting the fans unhappy. Can I even call this a success? He destroys the lower tiers, but sucks against the top tiers.
Ike- Well at least he doesn't immitate Roy like Lucario.
Ness- Tried to make better. Didn't make good enough. Also forgot to program his grab release animation.
Lucas- Tried to make an Earthbound character for those who didn't like Ness' playstyle. I don't use him...

G&W- Tried to make better. Now he's broken to a whole new level.
Snake- Kojima programmed this guy himself.
Sonic- SEGA didn't pay Nintendo enough money.
 

Red Arremer

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Pit- Sakurai really, really knows how to break a character in more ways than one.
Kirby- Sakurai's right testicle. Annoying voice included. Tried to make better, and succeeded.
MK- Sakurai's left testicle. Sakurai thinks that infinite combo ability, small frame, priority, recovery, range, and kill power is enough to compensate for a light weight. What about jiggs huh?
D3- Sakurai's object between the testes. It's pretty much MK with more weight and chain grabs.
Sonic- SEGA didn't pay Nintendo enough money.
I laughed at those.
 

rhan

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Why the nerfs?

I mean running got a nerf. How stupid.

AnAardvark said:
Some of the nerfs were to balance the game more... Which he failed at. But some of the nerfs made no sense to me, such as nerfing Samus. In Melee, Samus wasn't high tier or anything, so why the nerf?
I swore Samus is a high tier on Melee. Anyway, her missles got nerfed for Brawl because the super missle seemed to fast for Brawl speed. Her D-smash on Melee could have been used like Peach's if the opponet was moronic and held down.

Those would be reasons why I would nerf her. But I don't play Brawl so meh.
 

rhan

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TWILTHERO said:
Don't open the flood gates of war.
Fine. Edited post. I don't feel like I should be the one to start the argument. Sorry for my ignorance.
 

Greenstreet

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I doubt he had any idea of which characters would be in what tiers.

I believe he nerfed many to help with balancing, but with newcomers, he had no opinions on if they were considered overpowered or not, so he messed up on balancing some like Meta Knight and Snake.
Thats true, ofcourse he wouldnt be able to mentally put them in tiers. But... he probly did see that, in the case of Sonic, that he gave same chars less priority and not a gr8 range of moves, so he gave them a better final smash.
 

GI Josh

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Why the nerfs? because Sakurais an idiot who never thought of buffing the bad characters and leaving the good ones how they are. Now we are stuck with a bunch of bad characters against MK, Snake, Q&W, and D3
 

Bowser King

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Bowser- Tried to make better, but still sucks balls


Not really. He is pretty bad but not that bad. I loved the back throw on his old klaw (heck, I loved the old klaw altogether). Though bowsercide has some good mindgames.

His size makes him easily destroyed by characters like MK. His speed doesn't help either but overall I think some of the buffs were great (like the enlarged ftilt). His flame is a great move to edgeguard and vB is a great move to get the ledge.

Though for SSB4 I'm expecting a far better version ;)
 

rhan

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bowser king said:
Though for SSB4 I'm expecting a far better version
Hate to burst your bubble...not gonna happen.

"The Brawl to end them all" that's a hint that Brawl is the last SSB game being made. Unless it's gonna be Brawl 2.0.

And if I'm wrong please bring proof here so I could possible look into this also. Other then that I highly doubt it'll happen.
 

kr3wman

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Super 'Super Smash Bros. : Brawl' Turbo Edition.
Super Smash Bros. : Brawl Double Impact.
Super Smash Bros. : Brawl Slash.

It could happen.
 

Bowser King

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Hate to burst your bubble...not gonna happen.

"The Brawl to end them all" that's a hint that Brawl is the last SSB game being made. Unless it's gonna be Brawl 2.0.

And if I'm wrong please bring proof here so I could possible look into this also. Other then that I highly doubt it'll happen.
It was said in an interview with sakurai that if fans want he would be willing to make a SSB4 or DS version.

Now let me find it...
 

kr3wman

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I do believe he said He would think about it for a long time before reaching his decision about a new Smash game. He didn't literally accept to make a new one if people wanted him to do it.
 

GreenKirby

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The thing about Snake being a top tier character was because his play style is totally different from the rest of the cast. Honestly, using a lot of sneaking tactics for solely one character in a fighting game is probably not common.
 

Majora_younglink

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Hate to burst your bubble...not gonna happen.

"The Brawl to end them all" that's a hint that Brawl is the last SSB game being made. Unless it's gonna be Brawl 2.0.

And if I'm wrong please bring proof here so I could possible look into this also. Other then that I highly doubt it'll happen.
He hinted the same thing before about Melee. We got Brawl though.

Plus why would the kill a series when its bringing them money? Theres like no chance Nintendo would stop making SSB if given the choice at this point, I mean some people bought a WHOLE system to play this game.
 

Bowser King

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I do believe he said He would think about it for a long time before reaching his decision about a new Smash game. He didn't literally accept to make a new one if people wanted him to do it.
I can't find the actual interview but there was a thread about it.
If sakurai dosen't do it someone else will. Smash makes nintendo a lot of money.
 

rhan

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True, Smash does make Nintendo alot of money. I highly doubt that a 4th version of the game will happen. It'll probably just be another Brawl with maybe a few new characters or maybe more "tactics".
If Smash DS happens hopefully they just take smash 64 and convert it into DS form adding a few more characters/stages to the game. Other then that. I think if they tried to make the DS version a Melee or Brawl version it wouldn't be the same as the original counterparts. At least with Smash 64 it'll be easier to make and they could possibly add a few more extra things about the game that was needed in the original.
 

Red Arremer

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I was leaning more towards DI and charging smashes.

Random response btw
Of course, that suggestion was intended as a joke, though. =P

Guess it didn't pull. Anyway, yeah, I would like a DS Smash.
 
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