Why were Mewtwo and Roy removed?

[SonicTheLedgehog]

Mewtwo is old news, they needed to upgrade to a newer version of Mewmerz, that the kids can relate to, Lucario can skateboard and rap at the same time, all the things young un's enjoy. X_X

Roy is clone character with no merit. Marth however was higher tier and Sakurai and his team probably figured there will be a lot of upset people making threads like this.

But i like Roy's style better than Marth.

 

[LordLocke]

Roy was probably originally re-imagined as a power-sworder with a heavy Luigification in his moveset... then realized that they could differ him even more if they just went with a different FE lead and redesigned him from the ground-up. Bye Roy, hello Ike.

Mewtwo was removed because they screwed him up- the Mewtwo in SSBM felt and played nothing like what one would have expected Mewtwo to play like. They've admitted as much. Rather then trying (and probably failing) to 'fix' Mewtwo to make him feel truer to his canon (Considering these canons all tend to give Mewtwo a fighting style that'd be difficult/impossible to represent properly in fighting game), they replaced him with a different, more-recent pokemon (Probably to balance the numbers a bit since there's 5 gen-1 Pokemon in the game). Lucario's basically the most popular Gen-4 Pokemon, so there ya go. (Lucario may have also been picked because of the ease of bringing him in later over a moveset initially designed for another intended Pokemon *coughBlazikencough* once their popularity plummeted with the advent of a new generation)

 

[smash_lord1050]

k first of all mewtwo sucks ***!!! hes slow his recovery doesnt do any damage and his specian just sucked in melee. roy was to freggin slow and his b special was good to edge guard but still his recovery sucked too. and nobody really liked them.

 

[blayde_axel]

k first of all mewtwo sucks ***!!! hes slow his recovery doesnt do any damage and his specian just sucked in melee. roy was to freggin slow and his b special was good to edge guard but still his recovery sucked too. and nobody really liked them.

That doesn't mean they couldn't fix them. Zelda?

 

[Lecto2007]

That doesn't mean they couldn't fix them. Zelda?

My point, But he got replaced by lucario which is 10 times better.

 

[blayde_axel]

My point, But he got replaced by lucario which is 10 times better.

True, but it does seem odd to cut a non-clone (In Smash Bros. terms, not Pokemon terms. lol.).

But the question is moot anyway, cause it won't change anything.

 

[fuzzy4]

Lordlocke earlier got it right about mewtwo.

There were mass complaints about mewtwo not living up to his potential: In other words, Mewtwo was a god in the pokemon world, and likewise should have been one in the smash world.

The creators decided there was no way to balance it. He would either have to dominate every character in the game cuz he's a super psychic who can basically *****slap everyone, or he woudn't truly be mewtwo.

Some other people have been saying ihe should have been removed because he sucked, but I dont think they understand why characters should or shoudn't be in brawl. I agree, he shouldn't have been in brawl, but not because he was a terrible charater to play. All that can be fixed. Imagine if they had taken bowser out because he was not an easy character to play. Thank god they brought him up.

Mewtwo shouldn't be in brawl because of how he is represented in his franchise. He IS the dominate force everywhere. His struggles have nothing to do with his ability to kick the crap out of them. They are inner conflicts.

It would be like putting a plumber who shoots fireballs up against the avatar or something. Imagine Bowser suddenly facing off against chuck norris. No. You just dont do it.

 

[Jobe]

maybe they thought 6 pokemon was enough in this game?

 

[okiyama]

Ness wasn't removed.

You sarcasmeter needs a tuning.

 

[Roy-Kun]

5. Roy. Roy is one of those characters that is... complex, he does and doesn't have fans, he is and isn't awesome, and other blatantly clashing ideas. I ranked him with Falco as 'not as assured as Ganondorf, but in no way obviously screwed like Pichu and Doc'. He is the Fire Emblem lord that arms himself with THE MOST OBNOXIOUSLY POWERFUL SWORD EVER. I mean, anyone that knows FE characters and weapons knows the Sword of Seals is something well worth keeping around, as it can DESTROY armies alone. Roy may not have awesome stats like Ike, or even half decent stats like Marth, but he has a sword that freakin' equalizes the field. However, Roy is a 1 game character, Marth and Ike are two games. Ike has stats that rival Sigurd, most loved of all loved lords, and Ike is a highly unique character in his storyline and rankings (for instance, his starting class isn't Lord). I wavered on Roy (I would of liked him back, but I had a list of FE characters a mile long of characters I'd perfer... mostly females... what? Don't look at me like that) but wouldn't mind the Redhead returning.

lol simply lol man xDD

I can actually argue you (Warning: Spoilers)

Spoiler

Look at Tyrfing, Sigurd and Celice's sword, it's a freaking killing weapon! Wait... look at ALL the FE4's swords!

 

[Sculelos]

Lordlocke earlier got it right about mewtwo.

There were mass complaints about mewtwo not living up to his potential: In other words, Mewtwo was a god in the pokemon world, and likewise should have been one in the smash world.

The creators decided there was no way to balance it. He would either have to dominate every character in the game cuz he's a super psychic who can basically *****slap everyone, or he woudn't truly be mewtwo.

Some other people have been saying ihe should have been removed because he sucked, but I dont think they understand why characters should or shoudn't be in brawl. I agree, he shouldn't have been in brawl, but not because he was a terrible charater to play. All that can be fixed. Imagine if they had taken bowser out because he was not an easy character to play. Thank god they brought him up.

Mewtwo shouldn't be in brawl because of how he is represented in his franchise. He IS the dominate force everywhere. His struggles have nothing to do with his ability to kick the crap out of them. They are inner conflicts.

It would be like putting a plumber who shoots fireballs up against the avatar or something. Imagine Bowser suddenly facing off against chuck norris. No. You just dont do it.

I agree with you, expecially about Mewtwo. In Pokemon he was Telekinetic which means he could move anything with his mind. Also he had the power to disable and paralize just by thinking about it. And also he could fly.

The ONLY way Mewtwo would fit into smash in his real form is as a Final Smash move, just imagine the pokemon trainer throwing him out him floating in the middle of the stage and you the player get a targeting rectule that can grab and drag/throw any character off the stage.... that would be sweet, but I'm afraid even a final smash like that would be overpowered unless it lasted only a very short time.

Roy on the other hand was a two handed sword weider, I imagine Ike was getting to simular to Ike so they removed him and fully focused on Ike instead.

 

[Machete]

Mewtwo is not in because the roster was limited, 35 characters only, 4 pokémon character only.

Pikachu and Pokémon Trainer were the obvious choices. Jigglypuff is one of the Original 12. And they needed a new gen pokémon, and Lucario is very popular.

Mewtwo, even though he's one of the most popular pokémon, was the one who shouldn't be playable (although, as we know, he was heavily planned). Even though, for me, he's far more deserving than Lucario and Jigglypuff.

Lucario won't be in Smash 4. He's the Blaziken of this edition, the pokéfans will forgot him with the newest generation. I think Pokémon will have 5 characters in SSB4, 3 of them being Pikachu, Pokémon Trainer and Jigglypuff, and the remaining 2 being Mewtwo and a new popular pokémon. Or maybe Arceus, since he's the god pokémon.

Roy is a bit more complicated. He was amazingly popular in Melee, but, as a character, he wasn't good. Neither was his game. FE gets new main characters every game, so, in Smash 4, I think Ike will be replaced for the new main character. Marth will be in too, that's obvious. If FE gets 3 characters (like it deserves), Roy would have a chance.

Lordlocke earlier got it right about mewtwo.

There were mass complaints about mewtwo not living up to his potential: In other words, Mewtwo was a god in the pokemon world, and likewise should have been one in the smash world.

The creators decided there was no way to balance it. He would either have to dominate every character in the game cuz he's a super psychic who can basically *****slap everyone, or he woudn't truly be mewtwo.

Some other people have been saying ihe should have been removed because he sucked, but I dont think they understand why characters should or shoudn't be in brawl. I agree, he shouldn't have been in brawl, but not because he was a terrible charater to play. All that can be fixed. Imagine if they had taken bowser out because he was not an easy character to play. Thank god they brought him up.

Mewtwo shouldn't be in brawl because of how he is represented in his franchise. He IS the dominate force everywhere. His struggles have nothing to do with his ability to kick the crap out of them. They are inner conflicts.

It would be like putting a plumber who shoots fireballs up against the avatar or something. Imagine Bowser suddenly facing off against chuck norris. No. You just dont do it.

Urm... Ganondorf? Samus? Ness? They're monsters too.

 

[INs4niTY-]

Roy and mewtwo just got replaced with better characters (replacing Roy with Ike allowed there to be no clone to marth), but doc i have no idea cos that was one of my main characters :'(

 

[SuperLink9]

I guess the most reasonable is because:

Roy

- Was a clone in Melee
- Has only been in one FE game, unlike Brawl's other FE stars
- Never seen in the west, and possibly never will be, unlike Marth
- In the chance of giving him a unique moveset, he might have been yet another Falco or Wolf to Ike or Marth, not unique enough (Even though yeah, somehow Wolf made it in)
- Ike needed inclusion, yet FE didn't "deserve" 3 reps, like Nintendo's main series' Mario, Zelda, Starfox & Pokémon do (Metroid needs more too, but go figure)

Mewtwo

- Not in the current gen of Pokémon, and would mean no "new" Pokémon could be included other than Red's team
- "Legendary" Pokémon, taken down to the ranks of Jigglypuff and Pikachu (not the best argument, but it kinda makes sense)
- Lucario is the perfect Pokémon for a fighting game
- They didn't want any series' to exceed 4 reps
- Mewtwo wasn't very popular in Melee (I know this means he could have improved even more... but it's still a reason)

That's it for me.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

There's really no true good reason for Mewtwo but I can understand Roy's disinclusion. Roy was a very bad character in the Fire Emblem series and in Melee.

So was Ness in the Mother series and he got in, so who knows? Maybe Roy will make it into a future Smash game someday.

 

[SuperLink9]

I'm convinced all ex-Smashers will return in the hypothetical SSB4.

 

[Dust319]

I think the idea that Ike coming out of Roy's development is rather likely. It's possible that if Sakurai and his team did decide on the roster ahead of time, that only two Fire Emblem reps were planned.

Then, during Roy's "luigification" stage someone pulled a prank and changed Roy's hair color and made him taller. Sakurai (the ultimate prankster) couldn't be topped like this. So, the next day when his flunky returned to his desk to continue coding Roy he found the character's name had been changed to Ike.

Mewtwo is a little more tricky, and most everybody else has already said this, that he was dropped for a Pokemon that had more fingers... and was in a more recent game. He may have been taken far further than anyone else, and then about half-way through everyone realized that all their Pokemon characters were from the very first game. Sakurai had to make the decision, since as a director, he is the only one on his team who can concievably do this.

After an all-nighter of intense thought, he took out Pikachu, but after awhile, Sakurai realized this would cause him to get hate mail for the rest of his earthly life. So, he went back and took out Mewtwo instead. This was a sound decision, as it corrected the male-female-neuter balance of the game, to where only Yoshi remained as the giant question-mark.

[/end sarcastic version of truth mode]

Sorry, had to get that one out of my system. All explanations presented in this thread are sound, but unfortunatly, none of them will be proven, as Sakurai will likely die before telling us.

 

[Kittah4]

The comment of Mewtwo being "too powerful" for Smash to return makes no sense whatsoever.

Kirby cannot eat Metaknight or Dedede in his games. In Smash? Sure.

Mario can seldom touch Bowser without taking damage in all of his games. In Smash he can brush up against Bowser all he wants assuming Bowser is attacking.

Smash is ABOUT putting characters together that normally wouldn't or couldn't fight on an equal ground. Mewtwo is probably the most recognized of the bad-boy Pokemon, and certianly one of the most unique and classic ones. His removal made no sense at all.

If anything, Jigglypuff's previous attendance shouldn't have guarenteed her a seat in this Smash. She started off as a semi-clone of Kirby for goodness sake.

I don't know too much about Fire Emblem, but Roy's disinclusion doesn't bother me so much. If anything, they should have given him Marth's style of swordplay and come up with something new for Marth, I believe Marth is supposed to use his sword in a fencing sort of way? Though I guess such innovation was a little much to ask, what with Samus still having a generic beam based on nothing from the series, and Ganondorf being a mostly-clone of Falcon after 7 years.

I can totally understand Doc and Pichu's removal though. Amusing that only the two I DIDN'T want to be removed seemed further along.

 

[ConeZone]

who does care about roy...i cared the most about doc and mewtwo, but lucario seems to be an ample replacement for him. i think people will get over mewtwo once they get the game and start using lucario

 

[Mediator]

I am thinking that mewtwo was represented poorly in melee thus was excluded from brawl but then again you can say samus is represented poorly also but she's one of the original twelve.

as for roy I dont understand why they wouldn't add him especially since they added clones to brawl

but then again who knows?

 

[Kittah4]

who does care about roy...i cared the most about doc and mewtwo, but lucario seems to be an ample replacement for him. i think people will get over mewtwo once they get the game and start using lucario

By that logic, you should get over Doctor Mario because Mario is in the game.

 

[Marie_54]

Because Sakurai thought Snake X Ike was hotter than Snake x Roy... *coughdojopiccough*

As for Lucario replacing Mewtwo... Thats just Sakurai being stupid... I mean if they wanted to get new characters why didn't they replace jiggs too? I know someone will probably say "because jigglypuff is an original blah" but hey there are more than 250 pokemon, they should give some others a chance! If they were going to use less popular pokemon they should have used something more creative like Eevee and its evolutions (like Eevee evolving randomly or by terrain) but I guess they were too lazy for that.


Ooh and BTW-

OMFG Smash Brawl hasn't even come out in the US yet and people are already talking about Smash 4!?

Get a grip, I know many were sad with Brawl's roster so i doubt Smash 4 is going to be any different... Just enjoy your life...

 

[DarkShadowRage]

(the girly man in a tiara)
C) It's not up to Sakurai to make DLC or not.

Um, yes it is...it's HIS game after all, and if he chose not to implment DLC then it's his choice >_> He created the game, he has the say on what goes and what stays...why don't people understand this?

 

[Mediator]

Um, yes it is...it's HIS game after all, and if he chose not to implment DLC then it's his choice >_> He created the game, he has the say on what goes and what stays...why don't people understand this?

smash was going to be made with or with out sakuria! its not his game its nintendo's
they can do what ever they want

 

[Ichida]

Sweriosuly, I think
B)Ike = Roy but Roy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marth (the girly man in a tiara)

Sweriously, that's the dumbest thing I've read in this entire thread.

Roy

- Was a clone in Melee
- Has only been in one FE game, unlike Brawl's other FE stars

Roy and Marth have celebrated differences. Marth is pretty much superior in the competitive scene. Also, Roy appeared at the end of FE7.

Mewtwo

- Not in the current gen of Pokémon, and would mean no "new" Pokémon could be included other than Red's team
- Lucario is the perfect Pokémon for a fighting game
- They didn't want any series' to exceed 4 reps

If that was actually an issue, The Pokemon Trainer would have Piplup, Grotle, and Infernape instead of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.

So is any Pokemon with a minimum of four limbs.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Wario. YES HE COUNTS.
Link, Zelda, Sheik, Toon Link, and Ganondorf.
Hell, the Pokemon Trainer pretty much counts as three by himself.


Roy got knocked aside by Ike, who essentially has the same moveset, only in the body of a better-known character; and Mewtwo got knocked aside by Lucario, a cooler and currently more popular Pokemon. That's all there is to it.

 

[Sheer Cold]

Sakurai's big plan was to have gamers of different generations be able to recognize characters from there favorite games since Lucario and Ike more know by the newer generation gamers. They replaced the less know Roy and the first generation pokemon Mewtwo.

 

[Spyda]

I just wish Marth didnt wear a lame headband =(

 

[Machete]

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Wario. YES HE COUNTS.

No, Wario doesn't count. He represents the Wario Ware series.

Hell, the Pokemon Trainer pretty much counts as three by himself.

Again, no. A Pokémon Trainer main need to use all of the pokémon. He's not 3 characters.

Roy got knocked aside by Ike, who essentially has the same moveset

... *Insert Ridley's facepalm picture here*

a cooler

That's your opinion.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Again, no. A Pokémon Trainer main need to use all of the pokémon. He's not 3 characters.

Just because you need to use all 3 Pokemon doesn't make him count as one character in development costs. They all took the effort of programming three characters + stamina - 2 Final Smashes.

Also, your answer can be changed to "A Pokémon Trainer main need to use all three chararacters" and there would be nothing wrong with it.

 

[Ichida]

Three different characters, three different movesets. The Pokemon Trainer IS three fighters. The need to regulate their alternation does not negate that fact.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

smash was going to be made with or with out sakuria! its not his game its nintendo's
they can do what ever they want

Without Sakurai there would be no smash, if sakurai said there will be no DLC for Brawl there won't be. That doesnt mean anything about stages we get those.
As for characters he clearly stated there wasnt going to be any. And yeah, the Wii only has 512 mb flash memory, that's just like a simple flash drive I could buy at the store.
My flash drive is bigger than the Wii's internal memory.

Sakurai created smash, he put in all the features, clearly there is no feature for new characters just stages and pics. So yeah, I think he can choose what he wants to do.
After all he made the game, it just uses Nintendo Characters.
Sure Nintendo Owns the rights to the characters, with exception of the third party characters.

And I honestly doubt they are going to do anything character wise..so why are people beating a dead horse? Sakurai already stated twice that there wasnt going to be any. >_>

 

[Binx]

Three different characters, three different movesets. The Pokemon Trainer IS three fighters. The need to regulate their alternation does not negate that fact.

Tis the truth, also Roy could have been awesome in Brawl, just cause he was awful in melee doesn't mean he couldn't have been more balanced this time around.

 

[Diggerzz]

i really don't understand why they took out mewtwo. better would be falco ( sry but i'm not a starfox fan^^) but at least he's more similiar to fox than lucario would be to mewtwo. i also don't understand why they gave the 3 starfox guys the same final smash -> lazyness and then they put so much effort in one char like pokemon trainer -> unlazyness^^

 

[Rakath]

If that was actually an issue, The Pokemon Trainer would have Piplup, Grotle, and Infernape instead of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.

Um... no, and I'll show you why:
First Gen game covers: Venusaur (evolution of Ivysaur), Blastoise (evolution of Squirtle), Charizard, Pikachu.
Secondd Gen game covers: Ho-oh, Lugia, Suicune.
Third Gen game covers: Groundon, Kyogre, Raquaza
Fourth Gen game covers: Dialga and Palkia

Excluding first gen, the games moved away from even caring about the starters. Only Gen-1 has starters that anyone cares about really. Its what makes all the talk of Rival and other Pokemon Trainers being playable so stupid. Red is the Pokemon trainer we all remember, whatever we named him doesn't matter, Red-hatted kid is who we know.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and Wario. YES HE COUNTS.
Link, Zelda, Sheik, Toon Link, and Ganondorf.
Hell, the Pokemon Trainer pretty much counts as three by himself.

Yes, but, Wario and Yoshi (who you forgot) are not listed with the Mario emblem, Mario victory, or Mario stages. Zelda series and Pokemon series only have four characters on the select screen, which is what they were limiting. It'd be odd if we have these perfect series rows and then Mewtwo dog legging off the Pokemon set.

Roy got knocked aside by Ike, who essentially has the same moveset, only in the body of a better-known character; and Mewtwo got knocked aside by Lucario, a cooler and currently more popular Pokemon. That's all there is to it.

If you think Roy and Ike could EVER have the same moveset (except in some weird Mother series way) you don't know jack about the Fire Emblem series. Ike shares at most two moves with Roy and Marth (and that's only if you take a very liberal way of evaluating moves), and there isn't any connection from Ike's side and up specials to put them in the same ballpark as Roy's moveset. Ike's moveset has about as much in common with Roy's as Bowser does with Yoshi.

---

Roy-kun: At the comment about the FE4 swords being better than the Sword of Seals. Sword of Seals is the only sword I know of in the series with an arbitrary and uneeded healing factor attached to it. Which, given it already has more than equalizing stats, abilities, and range given that this was before Magic ranged swords became more standardized... it just was way too useful in compare to any other FE weapon.

 

[mood4food77]

they made mewtwo godly with weapons along with peach

but they made mewtwo horrible without them, unlike peach

i mean, i feel he should've been kept in the game, him and roy could've but i would've chosen mewtwo over roy, just cause his moveset is very different

and by adding mewtwo, we would have a 40 character tier list, not a 39 character one....i mean, it wouldn't make a difference


i guess the creators did something good for the competitive players

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

They all took the effort of programming three characters + stamina - 2 Final Smashes.

Where are you counting the second Final Smash from?

 

[Rakath]

Where are you counting the second Final Smash from?

Shifty, He's talking about Pokemon Trainer getting only 1 FS for the 3 Pokemon he has, hence -2 Final Smashes.

 

[SonicTheEDGEhog]

Mewtwo is old news, they needed to upgrade to a newer version of Mewmerz, that the kids can relate to, Lucario can skateboard and rap at the same time, all the things young un's enjoy. X_X

Roy is clone character with no merit. Marth however was higher tier and Sakurai and his team probably figured there will be a lot of upset people making threads like this.

But i like Roy's style better than Marth.

Hahaha it's about time someone else thought of this name. Just so you know, I thought of it first.

 

[Darkpaladin of Chaos]

Shifty, He's talking about Pokemon Trainer getting only 1 FS for the 3 Pokemon he has, hence -2 Final Smashes.

Eooooo.... Didn't realize that was a minus sign.

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Why you guys continue to fuel this thread really confuses me.

Let it die.