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Wifi is getting to my head

Vanst

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
101
Location
North Carolina
Who here has played wifi before on brawl? I'm sure a lot of people have and the first time they did was their last. I have friends around me that will play brawl casual, but not competitive so I am forced to play wifi. Everytime I play brawl, I play my best online and wifi mostly made me become better at Brawl. Lately though, I have been thinking about going to tournaments and trying to become the best because wifi isn't working out for me. Sometimes when I add a new person to my roster and brawl them and lose, I start to think and believe that I am not that good. I know I am good though, but when you lose a game that means the other person is better than you right? What I am basically trying to say is, is playing on wifi really determing how good I am? Does it take skill to actually beat someone online? I'm aware that wifi is a lot different then in real life, but does wifi really take skill to be better than someone?:confused:
 

MBreeto

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
904
Wifi is like a race to see who can buffer there moves the fastest... Besides, some characters are good online and some aren't. I suggest going to a tournament and see how you place against characters you usually beat online
 

Nintendevil

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
910
Location
I'm still trying to figure that out...
It's not the same as Live, but people have the balls to do both *coughallycough*. I think it can determine skill to a point. Honestly unless you can feel the lag or pick out things that lag did specifically, it didn't change a thing (imo). It's not like lag matters unless it's a tourney or something and if it is, just shrug it off. Not like a john, and not like you are better, just remember that wifi is SOMETIMES a rough estimation between two players, not an accurate truth.
 

Chuee

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,002
Location
Kentucky
Vanst mah boi.
Wi-fi lags. Lag messes up timing. You kill yourself because of lag. Wi-fi determines nothing. Go to a tourney for the good of man.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
Ally 2 stocked me on wifi. Ally would 2 stock me in a real game.

That makes him better than me, but by no means makes me bad!
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
3,322
Location
Syracuse, NY
Wi-Fi lag can really screw up your thought process and predicting ability. However, it does condition you to get better.
 

ndayday

stuck on a whole different plaaaanet
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
19,614
Location
MI
It's alright for fun matches and getting used to some of the basic elements of the game, but I gaurantee you, unless you are some kind of Smash prodigy, that if you played ONLY Wifi, you wouldn't do as good in a tournament setting.
 

RP`

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
126
Location
Michigan
Losing doesn't necessarily mean they are better than you... it just means they beat you.
 

Coney

Smash Master
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
4,160
Location
Rapture Farms
Oh God I hate online. But even more than online, I hate people that challenge me to online matches after I tell them I never, ever play online because of the lag, and then they win and talk trash and LOL CONEY IS TERRIBAD ROFL.

It's like--I hate Insane Clown Posse, but not as much as I hate their fans. Get me?
 

indianunit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
459
Location
Freehold, NJ
I think what he's trying to ask is, is wifi a good indicator of skill. Imo for the most part yes but don't worry. Keep practicing and eventually you'll get better.

Also anyone else think sonic has an unfair advantage on wifi?
 

wh1te5had0w

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
467
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
I think what he's trying to ask is, is wifi a good indicator of skill. Imo for the most part yes but don't worry. Keep practicing and eventually you'll get better.

Also anyone else think sonic has an unfair advantage on wifi?
I think that sonic has a small advantage but not as much as a spamming Ike that only uses fsmash and up B on a laggey match or a pikachu doing down B or down smash
 

Snare

Smash Lord
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
1,551
Location
Seattle, WA
i doubt many people will get the example, but if you've ever played halo ce for the xbox and halo pc, they may be the exact same game in most senses, but there's some radical differences between both of them (lead, auto-aim, warp, keyboard&mouse/controler).

skill on one of these didnt equal the same amount of skill on the other. it helps ease into the different game but it doesn't make you immeaditly amazing at it.

its basically the same thing for offline and online brawl. you might be playing the same game, the same button inputs will cause the same reactions, but switching from one to the other (especially offline to online) definitly makes you feel like your playing a whole different game
 

SmashBrother2008

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,227
All.. .... I can hear.... is.. is th-th-that... MADDENING music in... my head! **** you, practice stage!
 

Vanst

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
101
Location
North Carolina
I think what he's trying to ask is, is wifi a good indicator of skill. Imo for the most part yes but don't worry. Keep practicing and eventually you'll get better.

Also anyone else think sonic has an unfair advantage on wifi?
Personally, I think it does and it doesn't but it's not like I'm a noob at Brawl I'm very good with my main. I just think that sometimes I suck just because I lose to people online when I think I should of won.

Btw thanks for everyones opinions I really appreciate it! :)
 

ExCeL 52

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
1,228
Location
Suck My Kiss!
Wi-Fi Good For You!!!
As long as there dot is blue or green I take it personally if I lose.. Because there is barely any lag.
Anything else and I dont care.
 

Royale

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
226
Location
Ohio
A guy i friendly with all the time always has a orange and red dot- he lives in Cali, me Ohio. And we get nearly 0 latency.

Input commands? I dunno, but in comparison to offline though, offline i go just a smudge faster than i do online. The difference isnt really substantial though.

Though people in here that do complain about the lag probably have a very poor connection set up. I have a very good cable provider, a excellent router, plus i power cycle them both every 4 days for the best connection and the 0 lag. If there are latency problems, then its probably my opponents fault. I also let them know, and i help them trouble shoot to see where the issue is. Lag can ruin your fighting mood, so it is something i do take very seriously.
 

hichez50

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
1,464
Location
Georgia
NNID
Player-00
3DS FC
2122-6108-1245
I find wifi usful to learn charater match-ups. It gives you a preview of how the charater in played and some viable option that you can do. But it doesn't decide who is better.
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
Wi-Fi Good For You!!!
As long as there dot is blue or green I take it personally if I lose.. Because there is barely any lag.
Anything else and I dont care.
This.

A guy i friendly with all the time always has a orange and red dot- he lives in Cali, me Ohio. And we get nearly 0 latency.

Input commands? I dunno, but in comparison to offline though, offline i go just a smudge faster than i do online. The difference isnt really substantial though.

Though people in here that do complain about the lag probably have a very poor connection set up. I have a very good cable provider, a excellent router, plus i power cycle them both every 4 days for the best connection and the 0 lag. If there are latency problems, then its probably my opponents fault. I also let them know, and i help them trouble shoot to see where the issue is. Lag can ruin your fighting mood, so it is something i do take very seriously.
And this.

If you experience lag on wifi then you are doing something wrong.
(This applying to matches through friend codes, not with anyone of course)

Whenever I need practice I go to the Faux Finder or AllisBrawl and find some people to do 1v1 with and I consistently have at least a green dot with people anywhere in the country; even people from California (I'm from New York.) I get a blue dot with local players too.
The rare times I have a yellow dot it still doesn't mean the lag made the match useless. It is still a learning experience for me and helps me with matchups regardless of the few frames of lag.

With my setup my Wii is literally right next to my router and if nobody else needs the internet in my house at that time I even go as far as to plug my Wii directly into my connection.

Honestly the people who john about the lag probably just have connection issues. Most people you will find on any sort of Friend Finder will have fairly good connections and the lag will be minimal if at all noticeable.

If you play WiFi play to win like you were offline but know that it is really a learning experience. Don't rely on it for all of your playtime but use it to play your trouble matchups and prepare yourself for the real thing at a tourney. When you get to the tourney itself try to be there early and play some friendlies to adjust yourself to the offline game and you will be fine. Going straight from online to an important offline match will mess with your timing if only by a few frames but that does make a difference. But the few frames won't take all the experience you get from WiFi and make it useless.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,664
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
This.



And this.

If you experience lag on wifi then you are doing something wrong.
(This applying to matches through friend codes, not with anyone of course)

Whenever I need practice I go to the Faux Finder or AllisBrawl and find some people to do 1v1 with and I consistently have at least a green dot with people anywhere in the country; even people from California (I'm from New York.) I get a blue dot with local players too.
The rare times I have a yellow dot it still doesn't mean the lag made the match useless. It is still a learning experience for me and helps me with matchups regardless of the few frames of lag.

With my setup my Wii is literally right next to my router and if nobody else needs the internet in my house at that time I even go as far as to plug my Wii directly into my connection.

Honestly the people who john about the lag probably just have connection issues. Most people you will find on any sort of Friend Finder will have fairly good connections and the lag will be minimal if at all noticeable.

If you play WiFi play to win like you were offline but know that it is really a learning experience. Don't rely on it for all of your playtime but use it to play your trouble matchups and prepare yourself for the real thing at a tourney. When you get to the tourney itself try to be there early and play some friendlies to adjust yourself to the offline game and you will be fine. Going straight from online to an important offline match will mess with your timing if only by a few frames but that does make a difference. But the few frames won't take all the experience you get from WiFi and make it useless.
You win the thread.
 

voomm

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
108
My brother played someone the other day that he five stocks and lost so some r good on wifi and some arent
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Also anyone else think sonic has an unfair advantage on wifi?
To beat Sonic on wifi:
Throw out moves.

Most of the Sonic noobs you meet on wifi probably spam spindash, that mofo of a punishable move.

If they're doing that, you can just jump back and throw out an aerial.

If they're running at you, move forward and throw out an attack.

Seriously, wifi pisses me off becauase most of my approaches are based on shielding your predictable attacks, and with Sonic's speed it's way too easy to run into moves that shouldn't be hitting me. Also, my personal playstyle is more campy/reactive (like, if you miss an aerial, I should be grabbing/hitting you when you land) - but most of the time, the slight input delay gives my opponent enough time to spotdodge or something lame like that.

But yeah, on the flipside, spindashes are less punishable and his fakeouts are somewhat more effective because you have to commit earlier.


[1] Sometimes when I add a new person to my roster and brawl them and lose, I start to think and believe that I am not that good. I know I am good though, but when you lose a game that means the other person is better than you right? What I am basically trying to say is, is playing on wifi really determing how good I am? Does it take skill to actually beat someone online?

[2] I'm aware that wifi is a lot different then in real life, but does wifi really take skill to be better than someone?:confused:
1) Winning online doesn't necessarily mean the winner is better. If you win and you have confidence in your ability to read your opponent then awesome, it tilts in favor of you being the better player. If you lost but you could 'see' the moves that were going to hit you before they came out, or you can see every move that you could have punished offline, then it might just have been a lag win for the other person.

Also, keep in mind that wifi doesn't determine how good you are. If you're throwing out moves without thinking and landing hits, that doesn't mean you're good. But if you can break down your opponent's movements and outread their movements, that's not something that newbies can easily pull off.

2) When you play really good players online, you should be able to tell. After having played with people ranging from Ally, samboner, EL, Vex.K, etc - and numerous other people that have tournament fame or some other thing like that - well, really good players have really different habits from your average players. They can techchase and read approaches alot better. When you play people like that online, it's not even playing hit for hit anymore, they know followups to punish common habits and they do WTFSTRINGS that are almost purely out of prediction and leave you in awe thinking "**** he read me like a book" instead of "**** I couldn't shield!"

in short, winning doesn't necessarily mean you're more skilled, specifically for online- it's the habits and general gameplay overall that determine that.

<3
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
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Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
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Online is different.

There is skill involved in online. It's just radically different than the skill required in offline play.

Being skilled in online means being able to buffer attacks well, adjust to various amounts of input lag, and do ridiculously safe moves as unpunishably-well as you can. It's boring to most people, and at times ends up being nothing more than a ton of guesses. If you guessed that they would dash towards you a half-second later and your Down-Smash hit, then good for you. It's not prediction in the generally-accepted sense...although there is a small amount of prediction left in there.

There's not much more beyond that. You can't condition opponents nearly as much; punishing moves becomes unfairly difficult, and there's no reason to not spam safe moves.

There's skill, but almost no depth to it. Stick with offline.
 

Muhznit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
455
Location
404...
At least you guys get competition and actual fights. Practically every match I get in winds up being a 3 vs. Me or Taunt-spamfest on NPC and Hyrule. D:
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
I don't play online for the same reason I wouldn't play on a high definition TV. Lag changes the game. Also, the percentage of players you'll meet on Wifi who are worth their weight at a tourney is approximately 0%, give or take.
it's funny because when I first played Brawl, I played on an HDTV and I wasn't familiar with the whole concept of HDTV lag until I played on wifi and had like, the equivalent of red input delay at every time, and then I noticed that people seemed to be able to shield and hit things much more 'on reaction' than I could. Like, I could see that they were somehow able to react quicker than I could react to their moves.

Then I moved to a CRT and it was like playing offline on an HDTV, and I adaped to that better. Never went back to HDTV + wifi ever again. Thought it was amazing.

Then I played offline against lots of players on CRT TV's.
and I've hated wifi since, lol.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,664
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
I don't play online for the same reason I wouldn't play on a high definition TV. Lag changes the game. Also, the percentage of players you'll meet on Wifi who are worth their weight at a tourney is approximately 0%, give or take.
Ally.

...

._.

Anyway, I only play Wi-Fi because everyone around me (in my neighborhood) sucks, I can't get transportation to smashfests, and I'm still working on convincing my parents to let me go to tournaments.

It's not nearly as good practice as in person, but it's still practice, and is still better than nothing.
 

Vanst

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
101
Location
North Carolina
To beat Sonic on wifi:
Throw out moves.

Most of the Sonic noobs you meet on wifi probably spam spindash, that mofo of a punishable move.

If they're doing that, you can just jump back and throw out an aerial.

If they're running at you, move forward and throw out an attack.

Seriously, wifi pisses me off becauase most of my approaches are based on shielding your predictable attacks, and with Sonic's speed it's way too easy to run into moves that shouldn't be hitting me. Also, my personal playstyle is more campy/reactive (like, if you miss an aerial, I should be grabbing/hitting you when you land) - but most of the time, the slight input delay gives my opponent enough time to spotdodge or something lame like that.

But yeah, on the flipside, spindashes are less punishable and his fakeouts are somewhat more effective because you have to commit earlier.




1) Winning online doesn't necessarily mean the winner is better. If you win and you have confidence in your ability to read your opponent then awesome, it tilts in favor of you being the better player. If you lost but you could 'see' the moves that were going to hit you before they came out, or you can see every move that you could have punished offline, then it might just have been a lag win for the other person.

Also, keep in mind that wifi doesn't determine how good you are. If you're throwing out moves without thinking and landing hits, that doesn't mean you're good. But if you can break down your opponent's movements and outread their movements, that's not something that newbies can easily pull off.

2) When you play really good players online, you should be able to tell. After having played with people ranging from Ally, samboner, EL, Vex.K, etc - and numerous other people that have tournament fame or some other thing like that - well, really good players have really different habits from your average players. They can techchase and read approaches alot better. When you play people like that online, it's not even playing hit for hit anymore, they know followups to punish common habits and they do WTFSTRINGS that are almost purely out of prediction and leave you in awe thinking "**** he read me like a book" instead of "**** I couldn't shield!"

in short, winning doesn't necessarily mean you're more skilled, specifically for online- it's the habits and general gameplay overall that determine that.

You couldn't of said that any better man. :) That's what I think when I play online. When I am brawling someone and they beat me, sometimes I feel like they didn't deserve that win. It's probably because they are landing hits randomly. That was really good advice. :psycho:
<3
You couldn't of said that any better man. :) That's what I think when I play online. When I am brawling someone and they beat me, sometimes I feel like they didn't deserve that win. It's probably because they are landing hits randomly. That was really good advice. :psycho:
 
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