Wolf Tips **LETS COMBINE OUR MATCH-UP KNOWLEDGE**

[Seagull Joe]

Seagull: I don't think he means by a wide margin, it is probably by the slightest bit, as in you hit it right before the Bowser does.

yea ur probably right.but still not useful.bowsers most often only use klaw with klaw hopping.he is talking bout if a bowser is just on ground and side b's which isnt very useful at all.i get what ur sayin.

 

[Semifer]

Some specific thing:

After a grounded FS you can immediately Dair Wario.
Against Ness ground release to Dsmash works and is a great killer.
And on some characters a small buffered Dthrow CG works I think. You can grab Lucario and DK twice and Bowser three times in a row.

 

[castorpollux]

Some specific thing:

After a grounded FS you can immediately Dair Wario.
Against Ness ground release to Dsmash works and is a great killer.
And on some characters a small buffered Dthrow CG works I think. You can grab Lucario and DK twice and Bowser three times in a row.

I'm pretty sure dk/bowser/lucario can jab out of the cg. I'll do some testing later. I have to go right now

 

[Emo^Wolf]

i have a couple of questionss how do you Smash DI out of Snake's neutral air??? i know di but smahi di?? is it the same thing?? and also what is JJ combo (DACIT -> anything). is it the dash cancell?? or something else?? one last thing how do you tech the chaingrab or idnt understand what you guuys mean?, cuz falcos chain to spike just kills me i cant recover. the same thing with Ice climbers. i jst went to a toujrney and got infineted with ICE climbers it suxssss but can someone help me outtt? thnkss

 

[_Kain_]

His cg only goes past 30% if his dthrow is stale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tugP2r3_DoA&feature=channel_page
The last stock of the first match is what I was talking about on Pika's CG and he also has some fthrow options above 30%

 

[castorpollux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tugP2r3_DoA&feature=channel_page
The last stock of the first match is what I was talking about on Pika's CG and he also has some fthrow options above 30%

lol ic. i dont like that at all >

 

[castorpollux]

i have a couple of questionss how do you Smash DI out of Snake's neutral air??? i know di but smahi di?? is it the same thing?? and also what is JJ combo (DACIT -> anything). is it the dash cancell?? or something else?? one last thing how do you tech the chaingrab or idnt understand what you guuys mean?, cuz falcos chain to spike just kills me i cant recover. the same thing with Ice climbers. i jst went to a toujrney and got infineted with ICE climbers it suxssss but can someone help me outtt? thnkss

dacit = dash attack cancel item toss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XQcLDmsZlw&feature=channel_page


u can tech the cg to spike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

 

[link64e]

I've got a couple of tips for fighting Ice Climbers.

One tip is that if they are in front of you and getting ready for a grab, the AAA combo comes out faster than their grab and can knock them back.

If the Climbers try spacing you with blizzard, pull out your laser and camp them back. Laser goes through blizzard and can even send their Ice Blocks back.

If IC's spam Ice blocks, you can short hop backwards and give them the Signature Bair to the face. You can also hold down your Reflector and out patience them if short hopping isn't your thing.

IC's are probably one of the few characters that Wolf can go off stage for a gimp and come back safely.

If IC's recover High, with an OverB, Prepare for Lasers and Two bairs off the stage. When they recover Low, grab the edge for a nana kill or even a bair if it can be done. Also be aware that Nana's super armor can be used to knock you off the edge.

Reflector goes a great way in separation. A High Reflector separates and leaves Nana vulnerable. Use reflector if they are behind and run to create some distance. Or use that stun time for an FTilt, fsmash or Dsmash.

Don't get caught underneath an IC's. Their Up Air is ridiculous and can tear through your Down Air or Reflector.

Basically, this is a game of camping and patience. Wolf CAN out space them using lasers(mostly), Bair, and FTilt. Keep them out of grab range and NEVER shield when they are up close. Don't be ashamed to run away and create distance at times. They have the shortest grab range in the game, use that to your advantage.

I think that's all I have for the IC's.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Use blaser more than you do against marth.

We hate that. <_<

 

[choice_brawler]

IC's
You can reflector the IC's Side b too, to hamper their recovery.
If you lazor them while they're recovering, you separate them a bit.
Grab nana near the edge and when popo hits you she falls to her death, or at least thats how its been for me, someone should test this to be 100% sure. I do this when they're both near the edge not when its just nana, thats ridiculous.
I have to disagree with platform camping as you dont have any options in that situations and they have their uairs.

Pit
You can punish his fsmash/dsmash with your fsmash or dsmash , dsmash only if you perfect shield the 1st hit for the fsmash.
Lazor his glide if you can, it really limits his recovery.
Pit's aerial mobility makes him easy to juggle unless if he uses his up b or has room to glide away.

Bowser
Up b goes through fire, if you're having trouble recovering. You can roll through it as well off the edge.
You can shine spike bowser but you need to edgehog, and even shine to footstool him, shine-> jump shine (right above boswer) -> footstool, which he cant recover from.
If he recovers high, just take the free damage he's offering. Don't challenge bowser sit->edge when he's recovering high though. uair and shine dobeat it but if the reward you get doesnt really outweigh the risk imo.
When you're at low percents, you can chase after his up b oos and punish with dair,bair or fair.

Yoshi
Bair beats all his aerials and most his ground attacks. Poor priority ftl =/

Diddy Kong
Throw the bananas down and up if you arent doing the jj combo and stuff. Throwing the bananas horizontally back at diddy gives diddy more bananas to throw at you, cuz its not that hard to regain control over them *(dribble grab or jump grab oos). You can maintain control of them much better if you throw them downwards or upwards.

 

[Jesmo]

I've got a few tips against Olimar and Samus.

I find that you can't really fight defensively against Olimar. They use to many Side B's and you'll take to much damage.

Avoid getting grabbed for as long as possible. Edgehogging after a low % Dsmash works well since Olimar's recovery is terrible if you time the edgehog correctly.

I find that AC Fair's work better in this matchup then your Bair's.

Samus really can't do much to you except her UPB combo's. Her Dash attack and Fair can both lead into UPB and most of the better Samus's will UPB OOS a lot so space your Bair's well. SH Blaster usually stops the airdodge to Zair. I think AC Fair'sare very helpful in this matchup as well. Samus usually has problems stopping it.

I don't know if this is helpful but...

 

[Zen127]

You are correct when you say a good falco can space the chaingrab at the edge so that it doesn't matter if I smash DI or not. However, if you get grabbed around the middle of final D, the wolf has to be near 0% to actually reach that distance where he cannot DI back onto the stage/tech.

When I fight falco in the beginning, I play in a way so that it's difficult to grab me and when he does so, it might be at 20% or so towards the middlish part of final D. At this point the falco has too much room to cover in order to CG me to the "un-DIable" spot.

if the falco has too much room to cover, I always DI back onto the stage at least (i might not aways techroll). Trust me when I say I always do this... I've practiced to the point where I don't mess up the smash DI.



Also your platform strategy has a flaw in it. What if the falco shoots u with 1 lazor and then waits until time runs out. That forces you to come down from the platform to at least even out the percents. You have to fight the falco eventually anyways. Why not from the getgo?

If the Falco shoots you with SHDLs then he'd have to be afar. Drop from the platform and fight back with your own laser. If he gets close, get back on the platform. You're taking damage no matter what. Trust me, it actually is a GOOD strategy to get you over to 40% if played right. Hey, it doesn't even matter if you're not at 40% either, you can take at least 20%, and then fight. The chances of getting chain spiked go from low to none depending on the percent. Why not decrease that chance?

I just don't like the get go because I'm taking a big risk being shield grabbed/perfect shield grabbed/etc. I just can't space a bair EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. I just don't know. It's hard under 40%, So just go over the percent to make it even.

 

[choice_brawler]

@jesmo: You can reflect back pikmin, cant you?

 

[Seagull Joe]

for peach stay in the air.u dont want to get combo'd by her dair's to anything.bair like crazy.outspaces almost everything.camp when she starts turniping cause reflecting is needed.

for kirby never follow him over the edge ever.wolf has terrible recovery and gettings kirbycided isnt worth a bair.if u escape u cant recover most often.if ur above him tho spike him.kill the marshmallow.shine as much as possible when gettings cg'd cause if they messup even a little shine breaks u free.continuously juggle him. and when he is gonna down b follow him and fair or uair him cause there is a time frame between the stone part of kirby's down b.large enough time frame to get an attack in before he stones.

 

[Jesmo]

@jesmo: You can reflect back pikmin, cant you?

Yeah you can, but you can't reflect them all. It's like trying to avoid Snake's Utilt. You're eventually going to get hit. I prefer to just stay in the air a lot and avoid grabs and just hammer him with Fair's and Bair's.

 

[Emo^Wolf]

dacit = dash attack cancel item toss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XQcLDmsZlw&feature=channel_page
thnks alot man that helps alot the glide toss. you can bbaisiclly do it to anny smashh. will help alot againt didi kongs.

u can tech the cg to spike:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

How do you Smash DI towards the stage? Just keep on tapping the c-stick and control stick towards the ledge? but this would help me out aloot thoughh thnks for showing me this videos. except i read in some post that the falco can time the grab so that you cant tech the spike?? is that true or how does that work?

I've got a couple of tips for fighting Ice Climbers.

One tip is that if they are in front of you and getting ready for a grab, the AAA combo comes out faster than their grab and can knock them back.

If the Climbers try spacing you with blizzard, pull out your laser and camp them back. Laser goes through blizzard and can even send their Ice Blocks back.

If IC's spam Ice blocks, you can short hop backwards and give them the Signature Bair to the face. You can also hold down your Reflector and out patience them if short hopping isn't your thing.

IC's are probably one of the few characters that Wolf can go off stage for a gimp and come back safely.

If IC's recover High, with an OverB, Prepare for Lasers and Two bairs off the stage. When they recover Low, grab the edge for a nana kill or even a bair if it can be done. Also be aware that Nana's super armor can be used to knock you off the edge.

Reflector goes a great way in separation. A High Reflector separates and leaves Nana vulnerable. Use reflector if they are behind and run to create some distance. Or use that stun time for an FTilt, fsmash or Dsmash.

Don't get caught underneath an IC's. Their Up Air is ridiculous and can tear through your Down Air or Reflector.

Basically, this is a game of camping and patience. Wolf CAN out space them using lasers(mostly), Bair, and FTilt. Keep them out of grab range and NEVER shield when they are up close. Don't be ashamed to run away and create distance at times. They have the shortest grab range in the game, use that to your advantage.

I think that's all I have for the IC's.

thnks alot for this tipss. the ic that i played spam his freezer butive realize that you have to take out nana as quiclly as posible but thnks alot for all this. ive realozed that it is baisiclly a camp game with IC cuz theyre just camping you until they get the grab. ill keep all this in mind thnks

 

[choice_brawler]

-Like Falco, learn to DI/tech the CG->Spike thingy that the Iceclimbers like to do.

you cannot tech that if they are holding you over the edge. unless you're on YI. I know how to tech falco's CG but i could not tech that CG->spike unless it was on YI, and then i was teching off the wall pretty far down.

 

[castorpollux]

you cannot tech that if they are holding you over the edge. unless you're on YI. I know how to tech falco's CG but i could not tech that CG->spike unless it was on YI, and then i was teching off the wall pretty far down.

I'm pretty sure you can. They mention this in the smash backroom podcast. Try quarter circle DI-ing

 

[Zen127]

Let me contribute a little more.

Snake- This is probably the match up where you use the blaster the most. Seriously, Wolf's blaster against snake in general is just beast if you spam it alot more. It frustrates the Snake while he tries to set up virtually ANYTHING from nades to mines to etc. Snake is indeed slow without his Mortar slide, and even then snake would mortar slide right into the laser. If you're not using a laser every 5-10 seconds, you're not playing the match up right imo. Most of the times in brawl you must frustrate the patient player as hard as possible. Laser spamming is a key against snake.

 

[castorpollux]

Let me contribute a little more.

Snake- This is probably the match up where you use the blaster the most. Seriously, Wolf's blaster against snake in general is just beast if you spam it alot more. It frustrates the Snake while he tries to set up virtually ANYTHING from nades to mines to etc. Snake is indeed slow without his Mortar slide, and even then snake would mortar slide right into the laser. If you're not using a laser every 5-10 seconds, you're not playing the match up right imo. Most of the times in brawl you must frustrate the patient player as hard as possible. Laser spamming is a key against snake.

using lasers intelligently and patiently is very annoying, but i wouldn't say that's the only right way to play against snake.

I've been successful juggling the snake and not giving him stage control

 

[tedeth]

I agree with JJ. Keeping snake from getting his bearings onstage is paramount to beating a good snake. Blaster pressure helps but juggling him is where you can really take command of the matchup.

 

[choice_brawler]

OK i take back my statement. you can tech it, just if the IC's space it well, its really hard to do so. Also once you tech it you can aerial right away and punish the ic's.

 

[tekkie]

wtf is a stuttered step fsmash?

and is shining a grenade supposed to use its invincibility frames or does the shine itself stop grenades?

 

[Dv8tor]

wtf is a stuttered step fsmash?

and is shining a grenade supposed to use its invincibility frames or does the shine itself stop grenades?

A stutter smash is when you hit the opposite direction that you want to use the smash attack, then immediately hit the c stick in the direction you are trying to hit. So say you want to right side fsmash, hit left, then an immediate c stick right.

The point of stutter is to move forward slightly more than usual to get more range. This technique works more effectively with characters like Sonic and Mario since they step backwards in the animation which actually pulls them back, then they go forward into the attack. The sticking opposite direction makes them face away which makes them step backwards (towards the opponent) then turn around and push towards the opponent with the rest of the smash.

Sorry for the long explanation, I just want it to be understood clearly.

A shined grenade if hit by the damage part of the shield will set off the grenade and then run into the invincibility frames, making it useless, otherwise you could shine at the time of the detonation which uses invincibility frames anyway. Handy trick, Snakes hate it.

 

[Zen127]

using lasers intelligently and patiently is very annoying, but i wouldn't say that's the only right way to play against snake.

I've been successful juggling the snake and not giving him stage control

Well yeah edge guarding and juggling in general is Snake's downfall vs Wolf, since Snake's horizontal DI is ****ty and Wolf's air movement is A-mazing. Still, laser pressure on snake is just too good.

 

[-Jumpman-]

It's really easy to beat his aerials with u-air or fair. (When he's above you).

 

[Dv8tor]

If someone has the spacing right, getting that little corner of the uair on Wolf can be tricky.

 

[choice_brawler]

What do you mean if someone has teh spacing right, it hard to get that little corner? Why are you hitting with a corner of the uair?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

basically what u just said means if u do an attack first u win.that goes for everything.i can bair a ddd first but he can shield into grab after i hit.this logic is just terrible here solid.if i do bair first before side b then yea ill hit.if they r done at the same time side b wins.if side b is done first it wins.

You're a freaking idiot.

First, go back to first grade and learn proper grammar and punctuation so it's easier to decipher the crap that you're saying.

Now, what I'm saying is, you have to initiate it SLIGHTLY faster. I can't do frame data, but probably somewhere from 1-3 frames earlier. If they're at the exact same time, I'm almost completely sure Bair wins but initiating it earlier will make sure it wins. The thing is, Bair has more range, but Bowser's Klaw will grab Wolf's foot if initiated first. And if Wolf's Bair is initiated first it'll hit Bowser's head when he leans forward. It's hard to initiate them at the EXACT same time with one person though.

 

[ArcPoint]

Wario - He doesn't have a lot of horizontal priority. Abuse that to no end. His SH Dair will be beaten by your SH Fair and Bair every time. Use your aerial mobility for you in managing to zone Wario. Wario players (good ones) are usually good at reading, so if he's above you, mix up what you do. You also might sometimes want to turn around before shielding, as Wario players love to land behind you...

Also when pressuring their shield, try your best to account for their jumping out of shield. They will want to be in the air as much as possible, don't let Wario into the air to begin with. WATCH OUT FOR THAT BITE. It has epic priority, if he's above you, shielding might not always be the best choice. If you see a bite coming, just roll away and punish the ending lag with Fsmash or Boost Smash. I dunno what else to add...

 

[CO18]

Why don't you just shine out of nair instead of Smash DIing? Or does it not work all the time? But it hasn't failed for me yet.

 

[_Kain_]

Why don't you just shine out of nair instead of Smash DIing? Or does it not work all the time? But it hasn't failed for me yet.

Are u talkin about snake? If so u can but if they DI away while they r doing the N-air ur reflector won't get them

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I think I saw this a couple times, and I read it a long time ago, but for some reason, I just don't get it.

What is quarter circle DI, and is that useful that I should implement it?

 

[castorpollux]

quarter circle DI > smash DI

It's actually like a buncha smash DI's in a single swoop

 

[Dv8tor]

What do you mean if someone has teh spacing right, it hard to get that little corner? Why are you hitting with a corner of the uair?

Same reason as always, don't want percentage damage. For me personally (Maybe it is just me) I find that Snake's foot hits me before I hit him when underneath. If I should be spacing it under the opponent more then please let me know. I like using the corner of the uair, it's pretty safe.

 

[choice_brawler]

and he's using his dair? or nair?

 

[Dv8tor]

He uses dair since he's above me.

 

[_Kain_]

He uses dair since he's above me.

ur prolly jus not spacing it correctly i guess cause it shud beat his dair...mayb jus practice it some more

 

[Gaki]

Kinda late but im reporting in,

Kastorpollux , Just send me a pm if you wish me to participate in such things.
I dont lurk smashboards.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So, I asked on the Pika boards about the CG and it seems that Pikachu isn't nearly as bad as we all thought:

Does the CG have to be started at 0%? If I do it against Wolf and he has 20%, does it still work the same?

No, your dthrow will be too fresh. You missed the boat by that point, and he'll probably be able to reflector or jump out of it.

This basically means that you should get intentionally hit by a TJolt or another move and he can't do the **** CG. Note that he can still do the normal CG but it's "only" about 40%, which I don't think is too bad (Wolf should outlive Pikachu anyways). Pika probably wins but it's by no means ****...probably around 45/55 or 4/6 so with one exception you can play the match-up the same way without getting buttraped...the exception is to get hit before getting grabbed.