Wolf's non-bair game

[castorpollux]

Hey guys, after apex, I realized that I need to work on Wolf's non-bair game in order to take my game onto the next level.

I've brought Wolf as far as I have strictly due to my bair game. However, I need to make better use of his other moves as well.

Tell me ur thoughts or give me ideas on Wolf's game without bair?

 

[:034:]

AC fair all day, it's basically just as good as bair is. At low percent it sets up combo's to uair/fair/bair, you can retreat with it and it has a lot of range. Jab cancelling to dtilt or grabs, and ftilt spacing are great for on the ground. Don't forget FF uair against bigger opponents, and when falling through platforms since it autocancels anyway.

Blaster is totally a part of non-bair game, learn some tricks with it (or find some ;D).

Shine has useful applications when people are behind you and you don't want to stale your dsmash. You can quickly get away or do a follow-up attack... Or you can just bair <_<

Dash attack is still bad, use the Boost Smash to get through!

Think about nair whatever you want, some people think it's fairly good, some think it's bad.. I personally think it's mediocre, but I still like using it.

 

[<π]

Wait... wolf has a non-bair game?...

Lol, of course he does! I answered my own question. Bair is way way too good to not spam. Don't feel like you should have to use it less to do well. most of his other moves are only good for punishing. fsmash OOS can punish just about anything snakes ftilt, meta's dsmash, so use it to do that. if some one is on the ground or standing to get on stage fsmash is almost always the perfect option because it's speed and range.

Lazer is a awesome move, keeps pressure on and forces people into the air, aiming at head level is a good way to keep people from power shielding easily though it is very hard to sheild poke.

ftilt I am liking less and less every day. it is a good punisher, but you can grab OOS before the second hit dodge... that first hit has too much hit stun for wolf on connect, unless you are spacing it to only hit with the second part (hard) I'd stay away from that as a spacing/poke move. Definitely punish things out of grab range with it though.

jab is awesome! jab to beat out sloppy aerial approaches and spot dodges. I don't know about jab cancels though since most characters can simply hold a to jab you back before you can do anything.

shine is a decent counter to a lot of situations. but it's high end lag kind of balance out it's invincibility on start up.

Yeah overall wolf is just like smash dojo said. high risk high reward spare fair and bair. His move overall are pretty fast with a nociable, punishable cool down even on sheild. So you'll want to use most of his move to punish openings and mistakes.

I'd say just playing the keep away game but play it close enough to punish errors

 

[teekay]

AAA is totally rad. Best thing he has on the ground imo.

Other than that... I mean, fsmash is a good punisher? His dthrow is a pretty decent throw? Wolf's ground game isn't amazing, unfortunately. Not that I can see. Maybe you can work out new and better ways to make use of his tilts.

 

[<π]

his tilts are purty bad... no way around it.

Down throw is beast. 13 damage? yeah... his pummel is really good it resets everything!

 

[Honeythief]

Having learned to play wolf without using the bair much (I hadn't noticed it was that good till I got here), this is how I played my wolf:

Lots of SH Fair, random blaster, some smashes to punish, and lots of jab combos. I also used the neutral air, and shine massively, to rack up damage little by little, then kill with down smash or forward, or Fair. I have to incorporate bair now ^^.

Other than that, maybe you could find ways to incorporate the shine more in your game? I haven't seen it much in high level of play. Maybe there's a reason or is it just forgotten? And yeah, the jab combo is sweet.

 

[Seagull Joe]

the only good tilt worth usin is dtilt.ftilt isnt that useful.utilt can kill but rarely will an opponent run into it unless there on a platform and ur under them.

 

[tekkie]

Maybe learn to space ftilt so it only hits once? Sounds risky, but that move has some range to it. And if it hits once, even if they shield, it finishes quickly, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Well.

Ftilt: I get grabbed using this, and I just about never use it (on purpose, lol). Don't us this, unless you suddenly realize you can get only the last hit in.

Dtilt: A good move to tell the opponent to **** off. I like using it because of its range, and usually, the opponent doesn't suspect you using it. At least from my experience.

AAA: Don't use this unless the opponent WILL get hit by the first attack. If so, he will grab you if you go through with all three hits because of the cool down/lag. It's good to use when you see openings. It often saves me (I don't end up using it a lot because I'm an idiot).

Up Tilt: Use this only for comboing at lower percents. Virtually useless after thirty damage.

So, a game without bair (or in addition to). The problem with bair against people that aren't stupid is that it will end up revealing itself as choreographed. Generally, never use fsmash unless punishing.

To come up with a better game you'll need an objective. Wolf is good at juggling. Why not juggle? Use whatever combos you can to rack up damage, including AAA and bair. I would actually stay away from fair to utilt unless you know you can get it, otherwise you're screwed. Once you have that up, start the juggling process with uair, and if the opponent is good at stopping that, reflector. If they dodge, wait for the end of their invincibility frames and attack.

Sharpen your precision/accuracy and handle of Wolf as well (basically, aside from improving specific things, try and become better in general, such as prediction and accuracy).

I'm sorely disappointed in the fact Wolf didn't do well in Apex, but I'm sure you'll do well. Just go to more tourneys. Other than this, I don't know what to say. God knows I don't have enough experience to make any good judgments.

Note, SH nair is a nice "get the **** out" move for me. Any other random tips I can give you is blaster to dair is unexpected. I'm a high risk player though, reason I wouldn't place high at a tourney. But saying, blaster to dair can work. Wouldn't do it unless you knew you had the chance though.

 

[Darxmarth23]

My Two cents on this topic.

AC F-air. That will most likely be your most used move. It can change your opponents positioning so that your aerials will connect with ease.

N-air, mediocre if you don't know what the hell you are doing. N-air is a transition. You can "guide" your opponent from them being in the air, to them being on the ground. They will most likely go where you will go after the first hit. You can make some sensible move strings out of this transition because it auto cancels. Unfortunately it doesn't come into play as much as we would like it to.

Blaster. Use it. Make it a nuisance for your opponent.

F-tilt. Nice follow up for a lot of moves. Use it when you like, But don't spam is like crazy.

F-smash is a really good punisher. Use it wisely. If you find yourself spamming it then stop.

U-smash, good. But,
Boost smash is better. You can easily break into characters weak zones. Like past samus and links z-air range.

D-smash. Your killer. Use it when you know you will hit with it.

Shine: Primary defense. A gtfo move, with a lot of sensible movestrings.

Grabs: D-throw, then use an applicable move above.

 

[Ishiey]

Flying Dutchman's first paragraph is pretty sound.

SH nair on stage as your opponent is getting up from the ledge can be interesting. If you hit with the weaker hits, they tumble around a little and you can grab them, forcing an air release sideB or a dthrow into a horrible position.

Dair has its uses. Once your opponent is used to you using lots of quick moves (like SH fair) and they start to spotdodge in anticipation, a slightly delayed SHFF dair can hit them and leave you with limited landing lag. Not the best option by any meabs, but it can have some nice results if you read your opponent well.

Side B needs more use for mobility. The stall on BF works well, and long cancels can really help for techchasing. Short cancels can also confuse your opponent a bit, but if they're not jumping the gun on you it's not so great. But seriously, the stalling is great, and the cancels will only help. It may be gay, but it's great. Wavebouncing with the blaster, also for mobility, I guess.

This involves bair, but bair > jab > mixups are pretty nice. Usmash at low % is also good, you can utilt them on their way down or shield their retaliation and grab upon landing (usmash OoS if it's quick enough) so long as you predict decently.

Just remember, use utilt, nobody expects an utilt



EDIT: I forgot. Fsmash. Everyone underestimates its range and how disjointed it is. Walking really helps out, and then a fsmash from nowhere. Walking fsmash is also good for punishing landings, but I'm sure you know that already.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Just remember, use utilt, nobody expects an utilt

Lol. THIS is the right idea.

 

[Dv8tor]

Utilt is hilarious when it hits killing percent as it isn't expected and just makes me laugh every time I kill with it.

I personally have been screwing with my nair lately, it has more use than I originally thought. Of course I'm still working on my SHFF bairs but I focus on all things so I've been seeing what Wolf can do when bair becomes stale or when I want to change styles.

 

[<π]

utilt is like snakes, a little weaker.

dtilt is meh... too laggy, laggier than ftilt.

Me personally I save fair for an alternate kill. bair is a much better poke since it can lead to higher damage.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I forgot to mention jab.

Use it.

 

[ArcPoint]

I realized that I need to work on Wolf's non-bair game in order to take my game onto the next level.

Why? Just curious.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

^ Over reliance would by my guess. It's a bad trap that alot of Brawlers, great or not, fall into.

 

[castorpollux]

Why? Just curious.

caz my wolf would be a lot better if I can refresh my bair and use it as a kill move.

 

[AssaultX]

Sometimes I notice myself using AC F-air more often tham b-air on stages with platforms, since it has better vertical range than b-air. It's a great move in general as well.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, bair is a must for killing IMO. Best way to refresh moves would be jabs and grabs, so work on your close combat I guess?

 

[Darxmarth23]

Jab grab, and shine: Your refreshers.

 

[professor mgw]

i dont do air game...

 

[Honeythief]

Since neutral air does about 8 hits, wouldn't that be the best to refresh the other moves?

EDIT for under:

Awww

 

[<π]

it's per attack not per hit

 

[Seagull Joe]

walk away from ur opponent and fsmash them when they follow.works more then u think.people fall for the craziest things

 

[ArcPoint]

Yeah, if only they fell for the same thing more than once or twice.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Since neutral air does about 8 hits, wouldn't that be the best to refresh the other moves?

EDIT for under:

Awww

Lol I wish.

I too

 

[Honeythief]

When I watch your videos, I don't get the impression that you rely on your air game too much. Are you just trying to find a new way to play your wolf?

 

[ArcPoint]

He wants to kill with Bair, because Dsmash sucks for killing. And Bair is a lot easier to get off. Or that's what I got out of it.

 

[arch knight]

ive always used wolf more for his ground game and only use air game when i see an opening an early grab game is good dthrow to fthrow can be combined with fsmash or a boosted Usmash im still working the cinks out of it though as it is only good at low percentages and on heavy or average weight characters i dont get to practice on many light chars

 

[Sliq]

what are the tripping mechanics behind Wolf's d tilt (percentages it causes it; success rate)?

 

[PK-ow!]

what are the tripping mechanics behind Wolf's d tilt (percentages it causes it; success rate)?

I've observed two tripping mechanics (outside "Bananas" and such):

1. An attack hits an opponents feet, and only the opponent's feet, with a "horizontal enough" knockback vector.
   
2. An attack hits the opponent while they are moving, with a weak attack at an extremely low percent.
   
3. Aerials at low percents (don't know too much about this one; the opponent's action again seems to be important)

I'd expect either one of the first two to be relevant to Wolf's dtilt.

None of these are definitive rules. They're my best attempt to intensionally define the class of times I have observed attack-caused tripping.

 

[Sliq]

I've observed two tripping mechanics (outside "Bananas" and such):

1. An attack hits an opponents feet, and only the opponent's feet, with a "horizontal enough" knockback vector.
   
2. An attack hits the opponent while they are moving, with a weak attack at an extremely low percent.
   
3. Aerials at low percents (don't know too much about this one; the opponent's action again seems to be important)

I'd expect either one of the first two to be relevant to Wolf's dtilt.

None of these are definitive rules. They're my best attempt to intensionally define the class of times I have observed attack-caused tripping.

Well, I meant that certain moves cause tripping at certain percents, and have a certain chance for causing said tripping. For example, I think Jigglypuff's dair causes tripping between like 60-90%, depending on the character, and each hit has a 60% chance of causing tripping (these percents are probably extremely wrong, and only serve as an example).

So if, for example, Wolf's d tilt trips at 90% and it trips 70% of the time, then d tilt becomes a better move as you can d tilt into d smash at 90%, and essentially get a kill (which is why I ask).

 

[FailProofFrank]

You know since we're talkin of tripping...I've realized that Wolf's Over Smash in which he blasts forward with his claw, that if you do it really close to the opponent, or if they dodge at the right time im not sure, that you will blast straight through them and the air streak you leave behind caused the opponent to trip...

 

[Honeythief]

That's just the weak hit if they DI out of it if I'm not mistaken

 

[hundreds of utilts]

wolfs non bair game= Jabbing, Grabbing, Blaster imo.

i never really even bother with his tilts unless it's for punishment.

 

[Dv8tor]

If you can get the opponent to trip by a close fsmash and then turn around dsmash, it's a pretty unexpected semi-combo. Once seen though, it becomes useless as I think it can be broken out of.

 

[link64e]

wolfs non bair game= Jabbing, Grabbing, Blaster imo.

i never really even bother with his tilts unless it's for punishment.

Ftilt is priceless. It combos well with bair. Ftilt is probably the only tilt I use for Wolf. Sometimes Dtilt near the edge.

 

[C.box]

sh shine to jabs works I think ._.

Dtilt is safe on shield and can trip.

Ftilt does some good damage has large range i've used it to stuff approaches before.

Jab jab dtilt is ok.

jab jab ftilt seems to work better.

Ac fair is ****, ff uair can combo into utilt and upsmash.

Blaster.

Utilt can kill and can be used to juggle (like use wolf's great aerial movement to get under people an ff uair to uptilt to beat airdodges and crap).

I actually think wolf's tilt are kinda good :/, not great but ok.

Upsmash and fsmash can rack good damage up by using them as punishment moves, boost smash is great through.

Grabs dthrow and fthrow are pretty good, u throw and bthrow are trash though <.<.

Nair can sorta serve as a quick move to gtfo or intercept, it also has some weird lock priorities but overall it's a meh move.

That's all I can think of right now.