Worst "types" of moves overall?

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Who do you think has the worst moves, overall?

Worst special moves overall:

Worst attack moves overall:

Worst grab (the grab itself):

Worst shield (the size):

 

[:mad:]

Worst overall specials: Squirtle, Dedede, Falcon.

Worst overall attacks: Samus, ROB.

Worst grab: Ganondorf, Wolf.

Worst shield: Jigglypuff.

 

[VodkaHaze]

Ganondorf has the worst grab (terrible range)

Jigglypuff probably has the worst specials because his metagame relies mainly on aerials and grabs. With that said, not all of Jigglypuff's specials are useless. Pound and Rest help his metagame by a large margarine (lol Smash Online quote)!

 

[Overclassed]

Worst shield has gotta be Yoshi.

Right?

 

[pacmansays]

What is the latest trend of threads for the worst of everything...lol i dunno

I think for grabs I would say Ice Climbers for their bad, bad range but when using advanced techniques it can be amazing

 

[:mad:]

Ganondorf has the worst grab (terrible range)

Jigglypuff probably has the worst specials because his metagame relies mainly on aerials and grabs. With that said, not all of Jigglypuff's specials are useless. Pound and Rest help his metagame by a large margarine (lol Smash Online quote)!

I lol'd. His.

At any rate, pound is amazing, sing and rollout are useless, and rest is moderately useful.

Still not the worst.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Worst overall specials: Squirtle, Dedede, Falcon.

Worst overall attacks: Samus, ROB.

Worst grab: Ganondorf, Wolf.

Worst shield: Jigglypuff.

You actually think ROB has the worst attack moveset? Also, I don't think Squirtle should be counted as a individual character.

Worst attacks: Ganon - Has a useless UTilt, the worst jab in the game, a bad NAir, and all of his moves have significant amount of start-up and ending lag.

Worst specials: Ganon, Falcon.

Worst shield: Jigglypuff.

Worst grab: Ganon.

 

[:mad:]

You actually think ROB has the worst attack moveset? Also, I don't think Squirtle should be counted as a individual character.

Worst attacks: Ganon - Has a useless UTilt, the worst jab in the game, a bad NAir, and all of his moves have significant amount of start-up and ending lag.

Worst specials: Ganon, Falcon.

Worst shield: Jigglypuff.

Worst grab: Ganon.

"Worst" attacks is so broad. I'll just say ROB because I didn't really want to find data for every getup attack, aerial, and smash all to answer a trivial question. He's just a "fill-in-the-blank" answer, so I'll take your word for Ganon being the worst.

 

[Muro]

"Worst" attacks is so broad. I'll just say ROB because I didn't really want to find data for every getup attack, aerial, and smash all to answer a trivial question. He's just a "fill-in-the-blank" answer, so I'll take your word for Ganon being the worst.

rob has amazing tilts

 

[:mad:]

rob has amazing tilts

Did you not read the post you replied to?

 

[Muro]

you dont have to research anything to know rob is not one of the worst in "attack moves overall", not even close to it

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Ganon's jab is not a bad move... >.<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Worst special moves overall: Captain Falcon

Worst attack moves overall: I'm unsure what you mean, I'm assuming you mean close range game... Samus, maybe?

Worst grab (the grab itself): Zero Suit Samus

Worst shield (the size): Puff

 

[POKE40]

Worst SM Overall: CF
Worst attack moves: ...tilts? or smashes? or jab?
Worst grab: Ganon
Worst shield: Jiggs

 

[n88]

ZSS's grab hasn't been mentioned? Ah, wait I see it has. Great range, but she stands there for so long that if you miss you're guaranteed to take an F-Smash to the face.

 

[sasook]

Worst special moves: CF

Worst attacks (A button moves right?): I'm not sure really

Worst grab: ZSS, Ganon, CF, Link

Worst shield: No idea

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Worst Special moves: Ganon and Falcon
Worst attack: Mario's Dtilt, Ganon's Utilt
Worst grab: Ganondorf
Worst Shield: Yoshi, Jiggz

 

[Cook Kirby]

Worst Special Moves : Falcon and Ganon
Worst Attack : I have no friggin' idea
Worst Grab : Ganon
Worst Shield : Jigglypuff and Yoshi

God, I'm almost copying most people.

 

[Mota]

Worst shield: Yoshi (Jiggs shield is pretty big)

Worst grab: Ganondorf

 

[Browny]

wth? ganons side b is ownage and falcons upb is an amazingly quick, high priority 17% damage that goes through shields lol... its very useful.

Imo squirtle for worst specials. down b is quite bad, water gun will only gimp ness and other characters that everyone in the cast camp gimp anyway (i dont know why people overlook this). side b... lol. upb only redeeming special like falcons, except at least falcons goes a long way and has a lot more priority.

worst attacks. I gotta go with Jiggs. overall i use her fair, bair, uair, utilt and maybe a dacus usmash. with falcon at least his uair, nair, bair, jab, dsmash and utilt have decent use.

worst grab... yeah ganon.

Worst shield. Yoshi. I dont think this needs an explanantion :/

 

[Neon9837]

Worst specials- CF
Worst attacks- Ganon
Worst grab range- Ness

 

[zeldspazz]

I lol'd. His.

At any rate, pound is amazing, sing and rollout are useless, and rest is moderately useful.

Still not the worst.

Rollout can be used for a kill against a less experienced opponent and for situational recovery. Not useless.

 

[:mad:]

Rollout can be used for a kill against a less experienced opponent and for situational recovery. Not useless.

Doesn't matter, anyone can grab you out of it. Snake can toss a grenade or plant a mine, anyone with a projectile can stop her dead in her tracks, and it will never kill because you can just jump to avoid it.

Try sweetspotting and ledge with it and get edgehogged.

It is useless, don't try to make it sound any better than "absolute garbage".

 

[smashkng]

Easiest to break shield: Pikachu
Easiest to shield stab: DK
Worst KO power: Diddy or Samus
Worst KO moves: Sonic
Worst attack speed: Ike/Ganon, I think Ganon slow but just for a single attack that Ike has(Ganon: Other than up aerial and jab his attacks are SLOW) (Ike: other than jab and back aerial, his attacks are SLOW)
Worst aerials: Snake and Ivysaur
Worst overall moveset: CF (is fast moving and still is terrible approaching?)

 

[mountain_tiger]

Please tell me you're joking about Snake having the worst aerials... Sure, they're slow, but they have their uses, and aren't the worst at all.

Worst special moves overall: Captain Falcon

Worst attack moves overall: Ganondorf

Worst grab (the grab itself): Ganondorf

Worst shield (the size): Jigglypuff (though she's small, so she doesn't need as big a shield)

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Easiest to break shield: Pikachu
Easiest to shield stab: DK
Worst KO power: Diddy or Samus
Worst KO moves: Sonic
Worst attack speed: Ike/Ganon, I think Ganon slow but just for a single attack that Ike has(Ganon: Other than up aerial and jab his attacks are SLOW) (Ike: other than jab and back aerial, his attacks are SLOW)
Worst aerials: Snake and Ivysaur
Worst overall moveset: CF (is fast moving and still is terrible approaching?)

Fail list is fail. Sorry.

 

[ffdgh]

Worst special moves overall:sry puff

Worst attack moves overall: again, mario's d tilt wins XD

Worst grab (the grab itself): ganon

Worst shield (the size): ill go with puff for suicide factor and the worst goes to anyone too tall or fat for their shield. snake/dedede/bowser/falcon/dorf/and to a minor extent, dk

 

[:mad:]

Pikachu's shield's fairly small, it's easy to break.
Samus has horrible KO power, but Jigglypuff would probably be worse.
Sonic has Fsmash and Dsmash for KO's. Occasionally Bair.
Doesn't matter whether or not Ganon or Ike is faster.
All of Snake's aerials can kill, though two can be easily DI'd out of. Ivysaur has decent aerials. No way are they bad, only Fair.

Not completely wrong, but still, nice list.

 

[gallax]

the IC's have the worst grab range and pikachu is next in line.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Worst overall specials: Squirtle, Dedede, Falcon.

Worst overall attacks: Samus, ROB.

Worst grab: ZELDA

Worst shield: Jigglypuff.

You can spotdodge it on reaction OOS. It's horrible.

Ganondorf has the worst grab (terrible range)

Jigglypuff probably has the worst specials because his metagame relies mainly on aerials and grabs. With that said, not all of Jigglypuff's specials are useless. Pound and Rest help his metagame by a large margarine (lol Smash Online quote)!

Ganondorf's grab isn't actually that terrible when he reverse pivot grabs, but otherwise it sux.

Nothing compared to Zelda's "you can react to my grab attempt before the move takes effect" grab. Longest wait for a none-tether. ZSS is also really bad, probably second.

 

[:mad:]

You can spotdodge it on reaction OOS. It's horrible.

Normally I'd agree, but Ganondorf's throws aren't very good in terms on damage output or range. Not sure there's even any followups.

Zeldas are slightly better, but still bad regardless.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Normally I'd agree, but Ganondorf's throws aren't very good in terms on damage output or range. Not sure there's even any followups.

Zeldas are slightly better, but still bad regardless.

Again, the fact that you can spotdodge on reaction just makes her grab game horrible reletive to even Ganon's.

Ganon's down-throw also puts opponents in good positions for Ganondorf to follow up, and the output damage-wise is pretty good.

 

[zeldspazz]

Zelda's grab = fail dont even try to defend it. I tried that, and it didnt turn out well.

 

[:mad:]

Again, the fact that you can spotdodge on reaction just makes her grab game horrible reletive to even Ganon's.

Ganon's down-throw also puts opponents in good positions for Ganondorf to follow up, and the output damage-wise is pretty good.

Horrible reletive to Ganon's? They're both on par with "trash", neither are very good. Though I'll take your word for Zelda's being worse.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon's down-throw also puts opponents in good positions for Ganondorf to follow up, and the output damage-wise is pretty good.

No, down-throw only puts a 'couple' of character in a bad position for a chance of a follow-up, otherwise down-throw is just too laggy.

Again, the fact that you can spotdodge on reaction just makes her grab game horrible reletive to even Ganon's.

You may be able spotdodge Zelda's grab on reaction, but Ganon could have the same kind of trouble, his grab range is so poor that it'll most likely MISS without reaction.

The average start-up speed for a grab to start is frame 6. Ganon grab starts at frame 7, has the lowest range out of all grab (as I've mentioned several times before), a few characters could even duck below it/have their animation avoid it.

Damage wise, Ganon grab is so-so, but having follow ups is alot better. A 13 damage F-throw, 10 damage B-throw, 7 damage U-Throw, and 7 damage D-throw.

Ganon has one of the worst grab-games.

 

[Master Knight DH]

ROB's moveset takes pretty much each move to its logical extreme in usability. Simple as that. (I'm just responding, not saying ROB's moveset sucks--quite the opposite, in fact.)

 

[adumbrodeus]

Horrible reletive to Ganon's? They're both on par with "trash", neither are very good. Though I'll take your word for Zelda's being worse.

Dude, she has NO reliable answers to hiding in shield.

Zelda's grab frames are 12 for standing, 11 for running, and 10 for pivot.

Honestly, Zelda's grab is pure and utter trash, Ganon is trash too, but she'd be thankful for even his grab game.

No, down-throw only puts a 'couple' of character in a bad position for a chance of a follow-up, otherwise down-throw is just too laggy.

"Good" is reletive. Remember who we're talking about.

You may be able spotdodge Zelda's grab on reaction, but Ganon could have the same kind of trouble, his grab range is so poor that it'll most likely MISS without reaction.

The average start-up speed for a grab to start is frame 6. Ganon grab starts at frame 7, has the lowest range out of all grab (as I've mentioned several times before), a few characters could even duck below it/have their animation avoid it.

Damage wise, Ganon grab is so-so, but having follow ups is alot better. A 13 damage F-throw, 10 damage B-throw, 7 damage U-Throw, and 7 damage D-throw.

Ganon has one of the worst grab-games.

Ganon's grab range is crap, so?

Honestly, being able to grab is better then not. Zelda's damage and follow-ups are mediocre at best, but as I posted before, her she grabs at 12 frames standing, 11 running, and 10 pivot. Just about any smasher should be able to spotdodge them from shield. It means she has no answer to shield-camping which destroys her approach game, turning her from a mid-tier contender to bottom tier trash.

Honestly, Ganon's grab-game is trash. I'm not saying it's better then you are. I'm just saying, in spite of how bad it is, every Ganon player should get down on their knees and thank God (or whatever deity or naturalistic construct or person you consider relevant) that Ganon doesn't have Zelda's grab game.

Honestly, it's just unmatched.


Also. ZSS with a whopping 16 frames for everything.


Some are worse, but they have zairs and reliable ways to force approaches which allows them to *gasp* reliably shieldgrab.


Yes, Ganon is not the worst at something, amazing right?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon's grab range is crap, so?

Honestly, being able to grab is better then not.

Some are worse, but they have zairs and reliable ways to force approaches which allows them to *gasp* reliably shieldgrab.


Yes, Ganon is not the worst at something, amazing right?

You seemed to have avoided a major point I made.

You may be able spotdodge Zelda's grab on reaction, but Ganon has the same kind of trouble but in a different way, his grab range is so poor that it'll most likely MISS without reaction.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You seemed to have avoided a major point I made.

You may be able spotdodge Zelda's grab on reaction, but Ganon has the same kind of trouble but in a different way, his grab range is so poor that it'll most likely MISS without reaction.

No, I didn't. The grab range may be small, but at least it's an actual threat, it forces the opponent to do something.

That's what this was about:

Honestly, being able to grab is better then not. Zelda's damage and follow-ups are mediocre at best, but as I posted before, her she grabs at 12 frames standing, 11 running, and 10 pivot. Just about any smasher should be able to spotdodge them from shield. It means she has no answer to shield-camping which destroys her approach game, turning her from a mid-tier contender to bottom tier trash.

It doesn't matter if Ganon's grab is short-ranged, it's actually a threat on approach (a tiny one, but still). Zelda's grab is not.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

No, I didn't. The grab range may be small, but at least it's an actual threat, it forces the opponent to do something.

That's what this was about:

Words

It doesn't matter if Ganon's grab is short-ranged, it's actually a threat on approach (a tiny one, but still). Zelda's grab is not.

Zelda could still get a grab out of attacks that have 12 or more frames of lag, even if the attack has high shield knock-back. Ganon on the other hand only gets grabs from attacks with less shield knock-back, and 7 frames of lag, and almost every attack in the game has shield knock-back, as small as it might be. Ganon's pivot grab is horrible, it could miss even if you're right next to your opponent, the range is just downright crappy.