Worst "types" of moves overall?

[adumbrodeus]

Zelda could still get a grab out of attacks that have 12 or more frames of lag, even if the attack has high shield knock-back. Ganon on the other hand only gets grabs from attacks with less shield knock-back, and 7 frames of lag, and almost every attack in the game has shield knock-back, as small as it might be. Ganon's pivot grab is horrible, it could miss even if you're right next to your opponent, the range is just downright crappy.

So, it allows her to punish... more?

She's got better options out of a shielded attack (including faster ones), her problem is getting people to attack her in the first place.

The one situation where the grab would be redeeming is on approach, because it would allow her to force people out of hiding from her shield.

As it stands, it's totally useless.


Again, at the very least Ganon can force people out of hiding in shield, it's a threat (one of the many situations where a threat is greater then it's execution).

Zelda however, has no valid threats against a shielding opponent. That's why Ganon's grab game is better.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So, it allows her to punish... more?

She's got better options out of a shielded attack (including faster ones), her problem is getting people to attack her in the first place. As it stands, it's totally useless.

We're talking about characters grab game. Weather Zelda has a better OoS option(s) than her grab, has nothing to do with this thread. Yes, Zelda's grab/grab game is useless. Ganon's grab/grab-game is worse.

Again, at the very least Ganon can force people out of hiding in shield, it's a threat (one of the many situations where a threat is greater then it's execution).

Not as good as others. It really depends on the situation we're talking about here. Zelda could probably force people out of hiding in shield better than Ganon at some points.

 

[smashkng]

Snake's fastest aerial animation ends after his air dodge and if he misses an aerial he is easy to punish.

 

[Throwback]

that doesn't mean his aerial moves are bad though - have you even played a decent snake?

I'm trying to think of who is terrible in the air and I can't really think of anyone. Samus is pretty ordinary in some cases and very very good in others. Even ganon has some good points about his air game.

 

[JOE!]

Worst shield has gotta be Yoshi.

Right?

Hardest shield to poke, has special rolling properties after Powershield

Jiggs kills her

Do teh math

 

[Ragnar0k]

You people sound ridiculous. "Oh no it's 4 frames slower, NEVER USE IT!"

It can't be that bad. Just because a move sucks doesn't mean it's completely unusable.

 

[Nanaki]

that doesn't mean his aerial moves are bad though - have you even played a decent snake?

I'm trying to think of who is terrible in the air and I can't really think of anyone. Samus is pretty ordinary in some cases and very very good in others. Even ganon has some good points about his air game.

For the most part, everyone has something decent about their air game. Some are certainly weaker than others, though. I'd say Samus is actually great in the air, as each and every aerial autocancels and she has one of the nastiest spikes around. Her bair kills pretty well too (for Samus, anyway). Her specials are also good in the air, for what it's worth.

None of the characters really feel crippled in the air, but some of them just don't have many options. Olimar is probably the worst, and even he has a good Uair.

 

[VodkaHaze]

Worst grab is Soliimar's (Olimar without Pikmin) as you cannot grab anything.

Worst shield is hard. Pikachu has the smallest shield size, but big characters like Bowser, DK, Captain Falcon, etc. have a poor shield size comparing it to their body.

 

[SuSa]

There's also Yoshi.. who can't do anything out of shield..

 

[Kewkky]

Who do you think has the worst moves, overall?

Worst special moves overall: Captain Falcon most definitely... With the exception of his upB, everything else is horrendously punishable. I've broken his sideB and downB with Bowser's ftilt.

Worst attack moves overall: SnakeSamus... She just can't break through some characters, anything she does can be countered easily... Even her zair, you find her at Zair distance, prepare for a zair even if she won't do it and problem solved.

Worst grab (the grab itself): Ganondorf

Worst shield (the size): Jigglypuff and Yoshi... Jiggly's has broken self-punishment properties if you let it break, and Yoshi can't jump OoS practically, and has lag leaving his shield... But overall, Yoshi's.

I think my answers are pretty good

 

[UberMario]

Worst Specials: Jigglypuff
Worst Ground Attacks: Link
Worst Grab: Ganondorf
Worst Shield: Jigglypuff
Worst Aerial Attacks: Ganondorf
Worst Glide Attack: Meta-Knight
Worst Edge Attack: Captain Falcon
Worst Recovery: Olimar
Worst Projectile Game: Fox
Worst Homing Attacks: Sonic
Worst Suicide Move: Diddy Kong
Worst Punisher: Ganondorf
Worst Damage Racker: Meta-Knight
Worst Water-Based Attacks: Mario
Worst Fire-Based Attacks: Zelda
Worst Speed-based Attacks: Sonic
Worst Energy-based Attacks: Lucas
Worst Smell-based ATtacks: Wario
Worst Electric-based Attacks: Sheik
Worst Spam-based Move: Pit
Worst Gimpable Attacks: Ness
Worst Wall-of-pain: Luigi
Worst Tether: Samus
Worst Chargable: Squirtle
Worst Epic Attack: Captain Falcon
Worst Reciprocator: Mr. Game & Watch
Worst Multi-reciprocator: Falco
Worst Pummel: Samus
Worst Auto-Counter: Ike
Worst Final Smash started on the ground: Jigglypuff
Worst Final Smash started in the air: Marth
Worst Final Smash started anywhere: Zero Suit Samus
Worst Super Armor attacks: Ike
Worst Recovery move that isn't an intended recovery: Snake
Worst Chain-grab: Falco
Worst Recovery that doesn't gain vertical altitude: Captain Falcon
Worst Air-braking attack: Yoshi
Worst non-recovery specials in the air: Donkey Kong
Worst smash-esque specials: Lucario
Worst item-esque recovery: Peach
Worst Recovery Special used on the ground: Bowser
Worst Attack that can only be grabbed out of: Kirby
Worst Taunt Attack: Luigi
Worst Long-ranged Projectile: Wolf
Worst All-or-nothing Attack: Peach
Worst Time-charged Attack: ROB
Worst Transformation Attack: Pokemon Trainer
Worst worst: Jigglypuff

Proof that everyone's the worst some way, somehow!

 

[Kewkky]

Worst Attack that can only be grabbed out of: Kirby

Uhh... Explain this one, I seriously don't understand it o_o


And worst tether should go to Samus, since ZSS has a chaingrab, her tether reaches the edge from beyond hell, her pivot grab is pretty useful, and can be used to give her a boost upwards while jumping... Seems OK to me, even though her grab in and of itself is sad.

Just throwing out random info.

 

[UberMario]

Uhh... Explain this one, I seriously don't understand it o_o

I was referring to stone. It's one of the most laggy super armor attacks that's only weakness is being grabbed. (Like Aether or Wario's FSmash)

Also ZSS tether starts out with a slow-ish, unique pose which makes it easy to recognize and edge-grab. Samus' is (ever-so-slightly) harder to recognize.

 

[Fire!]

"Worst Homing Attacks: Sonic"

Is there even another homing attack in the game?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also ZSS tether starts out with a slow-ish, unique pose which makes it easy to recognize and edge-grab. Samus' is (ever-so-slightly) harder to recognize.

ZSS' tether (I'm assuming you're talking her up-b) comes out on frame 3. What are you talking about?

 

[Kewkky]

Also ZSS tether starts out with a slow-ish, unique pose which makes it easy to recognize and edge-grab. Samus' is (ever-so-slightly) harder to recognize.

Well, think about it this way... ZSS's tether has WAY more range than Samus's. Her startup is less then 10 frames. IF she sideBs to grab the edge from the farthest possible range, it takes an average of 10-12 frames for the normal human to be able to react to her change of of animation, and a couple more to fall offstage and grab the edge. If the opponent isn't grabbing the edge by when she's starting sideB or on his way there, then there's nothing he can do about it. If the opponent is already grabbing the edge, no tether will do anything, but ZSS's will give her an extra boost while she does her second jump (upB while jumping), allowing her to recover in her own unique way.

And seriously, her tether has deceptive range. You could be far under the stage and her tether can still reach the edge... It's crazy! And so can she horizontally.

 

[UberMario]

"Worst Homing Attacks: Sonic"

Is there even another homing attack in the game?

Samus' missles, Ivysaur's Vine Whip to name a few.

EDIT: to Kewkky and Paris, I was thinking that Samus still had that ridiculous Melee range. Sorry!

And Paris, I wasn't thinking about the UpB, I was thinking of the little bit of lag from using Zair.

 

[Kewkky]

Samus' missles, Ivysaur's Vine Whip to name a few.

Wait... What? Is vine whip his upB, or am I missing something here?

 

[UberMario]

Wait... What? Is vine whip his upB, or am I missing something here?

Yeah, UpB, it homes in somewhat. (More noticable in mid-air near ledges than at the middle of a stage)

 

[HizoSturm]

Worst special moves overall: olimar. (dont ask)

Worst attack moves overall: olimar cuz if you dont have pikmin, then there is no attack at all most of the time

Worst grab (the grab itself): ganondorf

Worst shield (the size): i think marth and i dont know why... :/

 

[Ussi]

What do you mean worse auto-counter: Ike? Worst counter goes to Lucario o.O...

 

[UberMario]

What do you mean worse auto-counter: Ike? Worst counter goes to Lucario o.O...

Can't you shield it before he counters? (I found it to be easier to "counter-counter" than Marth's)

I just realized that someone copied my Ham-Ham Clubhouse idea!

 

[Yonder]

"Worst Taunt Attack: Luigi"

Actually, I'd say Snake's is worst. Least Luigi's is a 0% kill spike...even if you can never land it lol.

 

[UberMario]

"Worst Taunt Attack: Luigi"

Actually, I'd say Snake's is worst. Least Luigi's is a 0% kill spike...even if you can never land it lol.

Snake's has a larger hitbox.

 

[:mad:]

****ing VodkaHaze, reviving really dumb threads.

 

[phi1ny3]

^lol.
@ Ubermario: What exactly do you mean by "smash-esque" specials?
Also, lucario 4 worst counter, no stun = shieldable counter, although the directional-change feature does lend itself for "other" purposes.
No 1 mentioned peach either for worst counter, that would get some votes I'd assume.

 

[:mad:]

^lol.
@ Ubermario: What exactly do you mean by "smash-esque" specials?
Also, lucario 4 worst counter, no stun = shieldable counter, although the directional-change feature does lend itself for "other" purposes.
No 1 mentioned peach either for worst counter, that would get some votes I'd assume.

^lol

Agreed. Lucario's is garbage. Back in a set when Corneria was legal, a Lucario used DT on the left edge against me and flew in the lasers and lost the set because of it.

This is why Pokemon can't have nice things.

 

[UberMario]

^lol.
@ Ubermario: What exactly do you mean by "smash-esque" specials?

Specials that act like Smash attacks. (Force Palm, Kongo Punch, Jet Hammer . . . )

 

[:mad:]

Specials that act like Smash attacks. (Force Palm, Kongo Punch, Jet Hammer . . . )

Do you mean in looks? Because there's not a special in the game with the same properties as a smash.

(being able to use them in mid-air, going into a fall state, edge-properties)

 

[mountain_tiger]

Do you mean in looks? Because there's not a special in the game with the same properties as a smash.

(being able to use them in mid-air, going into a fall state, edge-properties)

Don't be a pedant... You know that he means specials you can charge.

 

[:mad:]

Don't be a pedant... You know that he means specials you can charge.

I wasn't aware you could charge Force Palm.

 

[CR4SH]

Worst attacks overall? Dorf and falcon.
Best attacks overall? Snake and meta.

 

[:mad:]

Ganon's Uair and Dash attack warrant him a "not worst attacks" medal, imo.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I wasn't aware you could charge Force Palm.

Hmm... perhaps it includes specials that are grabs too.

 

[:mad:]

Hmm... perhaps it includes specials that are grabs too.

What smashes can grab? None of this makes sense and you know it.

 

[talkingbeatles]

ROB has amazing attacks.
Two fairs in a short hop!
TWO!

Falcon has the worst specials. 3/4 of them are pretty **** useless.

 

[thanortinzak]

Ganon's jab is not a bad move... >.<

Agreed. It's pretty **** powerful for a jab. Plus, it has decent range too (although it's range is definately inferior to those of his other moves.

 

[UberMario]

What smashes can grab? None of this makes sense and you know it.

When I said "Smash-esque" I meant that the attacks are similar to the ways Smashes work.


DeDeDe Swings a Hammer for his DSmash, and he swings it in a similar fashion using his DSpecial
Donkey Kong Punches for his special which is similar to many of the other characters' FSmashes.
Lucario's Force Palm could easily be mistaken for an FSmash if you didn't play that much.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Worst grab is Zelda.

Every single version can be spotdodged on reaction OOS.

Ganondorf's grab is low-ranged but at least it's actually threatening. Zelda's is a "please try it so I can spot-dodge and punish" grab.

 

[Nitrix]

Why do people keep making these threads -_-


I'd say Jiggs has the worst up-special. Sing is so bad lol.

Worst grab is Zelda.

Every single version can be spotdodged on reaction OOS.

Ganondorf's grab is low-ranged but at least it's actually threatening. Zelda's is a "please try it so I can spot-dodge and punish" grab.

I thought her grabs were good O_o. I saw people talking about them in the SBR review of her...