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YESZ! It's Captain Falcon! (B+)

Kaizo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
140
I'm gonna follow up on what BEES said by asking two competent players to test out the extent of people DI'ing Falcon's dthrow.

Some of the cast can be outright chaingrabbed with dthrow if there is no DI. For heavier characters, or characters that DI forward/downward, you can try to techchase, or if they don't tech, a dash attack will reset them. For lighter characters, or characters that DI up, I'm pretty sure you can get an uair in. It's not much for comboing, but it gets an extra hit in.

It's also probably worth mentioning that Falcon's dtilt combos into knee nicely at mid-high percentages. Also, I'm pretty sure gimp knee as an edgeguard is pretty solid....it's perfect because there's not a lot of knockback. It's the equivalent of a needle for the most part :D And it makes recovering even easier since you'll have less lag to deal with.

Again, should get two competent players to check this out. I'm only one person >_>
 

Shell

Flute-Fox Only
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,042
The Lucas thread currently has a consensus of roughly 70:30 Lucas vs. Falcon due to Lucas's ability to severely punish all of Falcon's recovery options as well as the combination of Lucas's projectile game, slight disjointedness, and small size. If you think this is inaccurate please stop by.
 

Clever_Sleazoid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
188
Falcon is perfect as is IMO. yes, he get's outpriotized by a lot, but he can work around it easily with his speed, fast arials, and stage-crossing momentum.

I don't think he should be changed in any way from right now. And I use him, I would say he is my best character.

Only thing that needs to be changed is those CGs on Falcon, like Pit's.

Saying Falcon get's outprioritized and walled too much is like saying Bowser get's hit too much because he's big. Work around it, and Falcon easily can. I am very upset with Neko who doesn't even play Falcon and thinks he needs buffs, saying "I don't play Falcon, I **** Falcon." WTF, just really, WTF?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
ok, big overhaul of the guide coming up today/tomorrow
 

Zodac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
320
Location
Australia, victoria
Moveset guide

Speicals

RAPTOR BOOST: much improved move, you can mix this up with a dash dance to the left then do B to the right and vice versa, if you land it you get a free aerial or a falcon dive (good for punishing DI and airdodges). To land a knee you should double jump to keep momentum. The risk/reward for falcon with this move is improved in brawl+.

If you miss, you will be punished by it's bad lag, use with caution.
It is also much more powerful as a spike now, only really used as a show off move but still helpful, i got some pretty epic kills with it recored :).
Also useful due to falcon being a close range fighter gives him another option to attack.
has low prority, useful as a recovery when falcon loses his momentum on his UP B dive, raptor boost always comes out the same speed/distance.

rating - 7/10

FALCON KICK: not a good move, can't combo with it. used to go through projectiles with bad priority and punish. Another use is to, for example, gimp somebody from the middle of final destination by falcon kicking off the stage and hit them with an up air or knee. Has extreme lag when landing from above onto a platform. Can kill at around 130%+.

rating - 5/10 vs. character with projectiles you can kick through.
3/10 normally.

FALCON PUNCH: do not use, Foward smash is better on the ground, knee is better in the air, do not use period. Needs a buff.

rating - 1/10

FALCON DIVE: It's basically his 2nd jump except it grabs them in the air. Can gimp recoveries like wolf, falco,fox, diddy, anything slow and under the stage.
Does high amount of percentage damage and is used to finish off
aerial combo's, can kill at high percentages (like 125%+). Goes through shields.

rating - 8/10

Smashes:


FOWARD SMASH: this Move seems so much better in plus, i think it's how the dash dancing screws with their spacing. Like the raptor boost, you can dash one then immedetaly C stick the opposite way (and increase it's range), good mindgame with really powerful
knockback and does 19% un-charged. Lag is easy punished if shielded/shiled grabed. Will kill around the 95%.

rating - 6.5/10

DOWN SMASH: comes out quick (1st hit only) for a smash, move lags being a 2 hit attack. Falcons main grounded kill move in Vbrawl, maybe this is why he's so bad. Good knockback and damage, can punish rollers and if your lucky you can even get the hitboxes from both legs in one single move. If your opponent shields the first hit you will be punished, the seocnd hit not so much. Better off setting up a knee imo, use as a mix up killer. Both Foward and down smash can kill ess than 100% damage.

rating - 6/10

UP SMASH: tiny hitbox, fast, does 21% damage, 2 hit attack.
The 1st hit does 8%, has hitstun but no knockback and you can combo a foward tilt or a jab into it.
The 2nd hit will send them straight up high and is an okay kill move but nerfed from gravity.
Always slide this move with the C stick if your going to use it. If they shield it they will be pushed back a bit.A 2 hit up smash will combo into an up air or falcon dive (at low%?).

5.5/10

Jab, Throws and Misc.:

JAB: Falcons best move, easy. This is what starts it all. Comes out super fast (with priority?). Get close to them and jab away, how do you get close? the way of the falcon.
This is how he starts chaining his combo togethers. If you don't like grabs just hold a until they Di out of it, if they're dumb they will try and attack once they get out, just shield and counter with dash grab or dash attack.

rating - 10/10

NOW GRABS! (they are like the brother of the jab)

1 hit, 2 hit, grab.
pummel if you're gay.
now choose your throw:

UP THROW-> they go up, jump and hit them with an up air, if you hit or miss go for a falcon dive, don't worry about
missing the dive they should be Di'ing so hard away they won't be able to punish it.

rating - 7.5/10

DOWN THROW-> 2nd best move right here.
you can combo these moves from a down throw (tested on mario).
->falcon kick (worked only at 20%)
->foward air
->neutral air
->back air
->down air
->down throw (i presume true, heavily character and % dependent)
->dash attack->up air->1 hit nair (true combo)
->dash attack->up air->knee (almost true must be only a couple frames off)
->dash attack->falcon dive (seems true)
go for a knee straight up if you want a kill, if you flubb use an up air, they still die.
you could kill olimar and ivysuar from 0% with a down throw to down air -> edgehog.
use a neutral air if they DI well.
use a dash attack if they DI bad, should be able to get an up-tilt follow from that too.

9.5/10

Use FOWARD and BACK throws only to get them off the stage and set up a gimp kill.

rating - 3 and 2/10 (one of them has less kill power but i forget)

DASH ATTACK: Risky move, it is a dash attack (der) so they can shield grab easy (der).
Use it to punish, use it when you can't think of a better move, use it on characters who can't do **** from grabs.
can combo into a jab and thus a grab, a foward tilt at really low %'s, a neutral air mid %'s, a knee at higher-med to high %'s, a falcon dive, up air and up tilt.
For killing you would want a knee or up tilt. For damage up airis always relaible, falcon dive for damage too. Dash dance baiting will help you land a dash attack.

rating - 7.5/10 (if not spammed)

Get up attack: Falcon has one of the best get up attacks, use it getting up from the ground!
trip attack: Falcon has one of the best get up attacks, use it getting up from the ground!
ledge attack: I don't use this, they can just shield grab you from it, use an up air or knee from the ledge. Never use when you have over 100% damage.

Aerials:

DOWN AIR: hard to land and setup, but the reward in plus is so good you'll want to try a few of these. If it's hits the feet you will get spiked, if it hits falcon manly chest it can kill sub 90% easy. (refer: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198565)
This move is strange, if i can recall below around 30% getting spiked you will land flat on the ground, above that you will pop them into the air which you can combo anything you want from. What should you choose?
Another down air is a good option for damage building or an un-sweetspotted dair for killing. Knee is alwaysa great killer too.

rating - 8/10

UP AIR: A good move for falcon? YESZ it's true!
Relaible, use often, great platform pressure, good damage, knockback and kill potential.
Combo's into itself (kinda) and can be used to approach opponents.
should kill less than 110%, i often land this near the edges and kill sooner.

rating - 9/10

THE KNEE: kill with it (der), flubb it and follow it up with another aerial.
Falcons knew physics and added hitstun helps him land the knee!
Knee trips at low %'s, don't try it though, keep it fresh (get flamed stale haters) and play safe.
I use it to gimp to, flubb it then up air, they will not recover. A down throw combo's well into it as does down air and raptor boost. Starts Killing at around 60%.
refer (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184947)

rating - 9/10

NEUTRAL AIR: Overshadowed by up air, a good move in it's own right.
1 hit hair, cancel it, your opponets in hitstun right next to you, jab him and get a throw!
2 hit nair, good for spot and air dodges and approaches, can kill at really high %.

rating - 8/10

BACK AIR: Another solid falcon aerial, not as powerful as the knee but is much harder to punish.Cling to the ledge and jump off with back airs for the gimp. Back air can be used as a kill move too if sweetspotted, should kill around 90%. Much less when used near the edges of the stage.

rating: 8.5/10

TILTS:

FOWARD TILT: quicker than down tilt, horrizontal knockback. Use for spacing, can be angled. Not much to say here, nothing can combo into it, just use it to space as it is fast with little lag.

rating - 7/10

DOWN TILT: This move is sexy in plus! Little bit more laggy than fowrd tilt but it's not a slow move.
Pops opponet up vertically (depending on where you hit them) and has great follow ups!
here is what i got when i tested the move on mario.
->foward tilt (worked at 54%)
->falcon Dive
->neutral air (worked at 95%)
->knee (sweet, at 90%)
->up air (at 65%ish)
not a true combo but very close: down air, up smash, foward smash and down smash.

rating - 7.5/10

UP TILT: His only tilt that can kill and has great range! (refer: http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd324/TomT01/Falcon Moveset/utiltdonecopy.jpg)
Great for battlefield when their standing on the platforms spam up tilt underneath them.
It has a hitbox above falcon too giving him extra protection, you can't start any combo's but you can use up tilt to finish them. Once they get 110%+ use this move to try and kill them.

rating - 8.5/10 (biased)

"Bread and Butter combo's and follow up's"

jab, jab -> grab.
dash attack -> up air
dash attack -> knee
dash attack -> up tilt
raptor boost -> any aerial
falcon kick -> up tilt
down throw -> knee
down throw -> down air
down air -> any aerial
up throw -> up air -> falcon dive
back air -> dash attack
1 hit netral air -> jab, jab -> grab
short hop single Up airs and neutral airs together.
down tilt -> foward tilt
down tilt -> knee
up smash -> up air

flame away?
 

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
you can forward throw chain grab jiggs, and maybe other lighter characters. it also sets up for tech chasing. re-work your guide ;)
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Falcon Punch is only useless because its not the anime version and you're not manly enuff.
 

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
I started using yoshi I don't like how falcon plays compared to past smash games lol.
 

Zodac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
320
Location
Australia, victoria
Does he already have another jump after down B?
they made the code, took it away, locked it in a safebox and threw it in the ocean so nobody could ever see it again

@kuga - i liked the down tilt -> jab -> f smash combo (even if he did DI into you)
 

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
naw i still use falcon. since im pretty beast at tech chasing. but yoshi does pretty well against fox/falco lol
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
Yoshi = "Infinite Beast Mode Cheat On"

I picked him up today, yoshi iz really good. Not what I'd call top tier but far above what I had expected of him.

Captain falcon however.......how much smaller did the knee hitbox get? Its hard to pull one off in a combo now yooz
 

Kuga

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
202
Location
Brazil
Yoshi = "Infinite Beast Mode Cheat On"

I picked him up today, yoshi iz really good. Not what I'd call top tier but far above what I had expected of him.

Captain falcon however.......how much smaller did the knee hitbox get? Its hard to pull one off in a combo now yooz
I notice that,when the Hitbox of Reverse Knee was reduced,the normal Knee is hard to hit now O.o.I mean,sometime you just use Fair and says,ded,but,what?i miss?!
 

Yingyay

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
693
The hitbox for the knee in near his actual knee except a little bit higher maybe. But its so small tho. Not that im complaining tho. Plus the reverse knee is hardly existant.
 

skstylez

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
357
Location
California
i would like falcon's gentlemens to be more effective. Less lag time and some knockback would be nice.

For those who don't know what a gentlemen is the 3rd hit of his jab attack. so Jab->jab->KNEE. I know this isn't melee but a knee from falcon needs more devastation :X
 

eisley

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
53
Location
Athens, Georgia
I notice that,when the Hitbox of Reverse Knee was reduced,the normal Knee is hard to hit now O.o.I mean,sometime you just use Fair and says,ded,but,what?i miss?!
The hitbox was made smaller? I didn't notice it really...whenever I do a combo that leads to a knee and I know for a fact that it will connect, it does. The only time it doesn't is when I throw off my timing or do something stupid which leads to a flub.
 

benderdx7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
3
ummmmm i found a problem..... -__-.

i was playing against my brother today, and he was using wolf.
whenever he knocked me off the ledge he would start spamming his lazer. and my up-B would continually get hit by the lazer until i finally made it back on to the stage and then he would smash me.

i think they need to fix the ledge grabbing...
 

benderdx7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
3
i'm just new to B+, had it for about a week. im so used to vBrawl and its auto-sweetspot. :p
 

Skip2MaLoo

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,293
i'm just new to B+, had it for about a week. im so used to vBrawl and its auto-sweetspot. :p
side b also sweet spots pretty well. it kinda works the same as vbrawl. just learn where to use upb from and it should be easy
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
8,994
Location
Georgia
i love cf in brawl+
my barwl playing friends always liek D: when i give them 60-70% from combos

but zelda is a ***** to fight because she can upsmash chain you till around 30-40%, unless you keep trying to airdodge through it (like i did for a long time >_>) then end it with a uair or sweetspotted bair
]:

but still,

falcons awesome
:D
 

eisley

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
53
Location
Athens, Georgia
i'm just new to B+, had it for about a week. im so used to vBrawl and its auto-sweetspot. :p
wait...so you're new to brawl+, admit you're not that good at sweetspotting in brawl+ and DARE to ask for the edges to be changed? If you are looking for a readition to auto sweets, you're dead wrong....what baffles me the most is, if you're barely starting to play, why complain and wish for things to be changed already when more than likely you are still in the transition stage where a lot of things will feel weird at first.
grrrr!:lick:
 

benderdx7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
3
what baffles me the most is, if you're barely starting to play, why complain and wish for things to be changed already when more than likely you are still in the transition stage where a lot of things will feel weird at first.
grrrr!:lick:
i combo well, i just get ranged to death by some characters when its hard to approach
 

grim mouser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
464
Location
Michigan
Why?
Is there no way to get that code?
From the 5/4 set:

Ganon/Falcon recovery fixes
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
30000000 00000009
66000001 00000000
30000001 00000014
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
90010002 00000000
48001002 0000007C
30000038 00000114
48001002 00000018
92210003 00000040
48001002 00000088
58010000 0000002C
94210003 0000004C
48001002 0000007C
30000039 00000115
48001002 00000070
58010000 00000020
58010000 0000000C
14000004 00000001
E2000001 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000
 
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