Yoshi Discussion

[Yobolight]

Any good vids of Yoshi other than Sheermadness?

 

[SheerMadness]

Prince, Sossi, Isai, Ballin, Star King (if he has any).

Generally with any character you wanna watch a bunch of different players and take ideas from each of them.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'd post my videos but they are bad

 

[Komotonoto]

******* don't know bout mah YOSH.

 

[Yobolight]

I can't figure out how Yoshi should play against Kirby, and I also have a bit of trouble with Falcon. Anyone got tips on these two?

 

[SheerMadness]

Kirby is by far Yoshi's hardest match up IMO. So it's not surprising you're struggling with him. Against Kirby your best approaches are neutral b, dash attack, and bair. The hardest part is getting that initial hit, but once you're in on Kirby you can pwn him pretty hard.

Defensive Falcons who just wait for you to approach can be tough too. Just test the waters and learn their patterns. A lot of them will just dash back when they see you approaching. If that's the case overcompensate and attack the point you know they'll dash back to, not where they currently are when you begin your approach.

 

[Yoshi-Fan GM]

I agree with Yoshi having too much trouble with Kirby, although Yoshi still has some good advantages (combos like multiple f-tilts + fair, or multiple dash attacks + f-tilt + fair near the edge are easier on floaties).

But I find Yoshi to be very difficult to play against Kirby anyway. In most cases I always 'counterpick' him with my Samus or Jiggs, though.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I agree with Yoshi having too much trouble with Kirby, although Yoshi still has some good advantages (combos like multiple f-tilts + fair, or multiple dash attacks + f-tilt + fair near the edge are easier on floaties).

But I find Yoshi to be very difficult to play against Kirby anyway. In most cases I always 'counterpick' him with my Samus or Jiggs, though.

Oh look you're me...or what I used to do.

I really dislike this matchup. I have 3 videos of me playing here but nothing much. lolHypercam I
I guess you can take a couple hints from here but better kirby's usually win/2-stock/occasional 3 stock me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYOHZm_NCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOP13VEzW0

 

[M!nt]

YOCHI!!

kirby-yoshi and falcon-yoshi are my most favorite matchups in the game (when i'm yoshi)

 

[Flamingo117]

So I have a newbie question... How do I avoid getting gimped? Everytime I get thrown off stage, my friend who uses pika, fox, or Kirbs always uses nair/fair or fsmashes and I die so easily. He does this right when my superarmor wears off in my second jump. It's so annoying.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

So I have a newbie question... How do I avoid getting gimped? Everytime I get thrown off stage, my friend who uses pika, fox, or Kirbs always uses nair/fair or fsmashes and I die so easily. He does this right when my superarmor wears off in my second jump. It's so annoying.

I find it generally easier to use Yoshi's double jump to reduce knockback when I am coming below the stage. Moves tend to not send me off as far. In terms of waiting, wait as well. Do not use the double jump directly at the beginning every time so that there is still some of the super armor left.

Though if I have the room (as in a lot of room) I tend to go above the ledge or for a down b ledge grab

 

[Dingus]

How exactly does Yoshi's super armor work. At what percentages will he just absorb hits? When will he take the hit and just get a slight knockback vs take the hit and go flying? During a double jump, does the super armor change from the beginning to the end of the jump? It always seems like I get hit more easily near the end of a jump then right at the beginning.

edit: one more question. How do I stop sucking with yoshi?

 

[asianaussie]

the superarmor integrity is dependent on both yoshi's damage and the strength (damage) of the hitbox interacting with him - he will absorb individual drill hits at every practical level of damage (ie below 200), whereas things like f-smashes will start going through a lot earlier

the same applies for how far you fly when your superarmor is broken - at the lowest possible level donkey punch breaks superarmor, it wont send you flying at all, but if you're at 120% then you will get knocked the hell out

the super armor has a distinct duration that you just have to learn by playing, you're probably getting hit because you're using a move near the end or you're coming out of his second jump, as i dont think the superarmor itself changes properties at all

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

How exactly does Yoshi's super armor work. At what percentages will he just absorb hits? When will he take the hit and just get a slight knockback vs take the hit and go flying? During a double jump, does the super armor change from the beginning to the end of the jump? It always seems like I get hit more easily near the end of a jump then right at the beginning.

edit: one more question. How do I stop sucking with yoshi?

For the second half, you know how to DJC. Do you go for too many u-tilts? Do you have specific matchup problems?

 

[Sangoku]

edit: one more question. How do I stop sucking with yoshi?

Shield before jumping everytime.

 

[Dingus]

For the second half, you know how to DJC. Do you go for too many u-tilts? Do you have specific matchup problems?

I can DJC, but i can't hit DJC n-air shield breaks very consistently. I definitely use too many u-tilts, especially to pressure shields. If my DJCs were a little cleaner, I would use those instead. I also over use yoshi's dash attack, which is a bad habit I am trying to break.

I have the most trouble against floaty characters like mario. I cant figure out how to combo him consistently, I overuse u-tilt which usually gets me nothing against him, and I cant ledge guard effectively. My main opponent plays a very defensive run away mario and I have a lot of trouble chasing him down with yoshi because of his awkward double jump.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

try using b-air a bit more vs mario. When you do hit an u-tilt, it really depends if your opponent can smash DI drills. If no, u-tilt to d-air leads to easy kill combos (but don't get used to this just in case he learns to DI/you face someone else.) If yes, then go for b-airs/n-airs after u-tilts for combos or u-airs for kills. A U-tilt when Mario is on the ground can lead to a down b as well for earlier kills. You can use n-air and b-air (as well as eggs) in order to break fireballs. Mario punishes dash attacks hard so really do not outside of possibly near a ledge into a f-air, stay back a bit, space using b-airs and eggs (but don't egg too close as there is a bunch of startup/ending lag.) I find f-tilt to also be useful for combos as well. F-tilts near a ledge lead to f-air kills also.
It is no problem if you can't n-air shield break, shield pressure with it instead and attack when it seems that he is scared that his shield is weak and has to jump away. f-tilt is a good mixup here also.

 

[Dingus]

Thanks for the help. I can't test anything right now, so I apologize if this is stupid, but I thought u-tilit to d-air only works on fast fallers like falcon or link? Will that combo on mario (assuming no di of course)

 

[Kimimaru]

I think you need to do a full hop to hit Mario with D-air after a U-tilt. Personally, I'd use another aerial on him at lower percents and try to get a combo going rather than rely on something that he can easily DI out of. This'll matter because 99%, if not all, of good players know how to DI, and you want to adjust to that fact as quickly as possible and find what works for you.

 

[SheerMadness]

You never wanna uptilt light characters unless there's a low platform directly above you.

Learn to combo light characters horizontally with nair, dash attack, bair, and forward tilt.

 

[M!nt]

You can uptilt jigglypuff at high percent and get a free upair kill sometimes, but yeah horizontally is more fun anyway.

 

[asianaussie]

doesn't jiggs have to be grounded (and probably crouching) for that to work guaranteed?

 

[Yobolight]

Are forward tilt and fair the only combo starters on floaties?

 

[asianaussie]

dash attack at not-0 percents (and not vs samus)

b-air still works to combo into horizontal stuff, right

 

[The Star King]

uhh yes vs Samus...

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

uptilt into fair is p good

 

[Yobolight]

Is dtilt against the wall on the right side of Hyrule a true infinite?

What move(s) should Yoshi use to bat away Mario's fireballs?

How should Yoshi combo in the tent?

Is dair only useful for shield-breaks?

 

[SheerMadness]

1. I seriously doubt it. But I'm not a tent combo expert.

2. Learn to parry them. Until then bair or nair through them.

3.

4. Dair is very useful if you wanna rack up damage against an opponent that's at an awkward combo %. Example, you fair a jiggly and she's too high to combo effectively but too low to kill with up air or down b.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

1. I seriously doubt it. But I'm not a tent combo expert.

2. Learn to parry them. Until then bair or nair through them.

3.

4. Dair is very useful if you wanna rack up damage against an opponent that's at an awkward combo %. Example, you fair a jiggly and she's too high to combo effectively but too low to kill with up air or down b.

He might be asking about the 1st response due to what happened offline. I got him from 60 to 150 off the bottom wall (no, not the side one on the tent) using Yoshi's d-tilt only. He was using Ness

 

[B-Town]

1. I'm trying to learn to camp and the ledge and use eggs and groundpound to mess with my console friends. Is this feasible or very easy to counter?

2. If I take the time to learn to parry is it easy enough to actually use effectively in real games?

3. When I try to DJC bair, I sometimes turn around and use forward air by mistake. How do I prevent this?

4. This one may be stupid but when I DJC should I z-cancel too, and is there times where I don't need to? This question applies for ness too.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

1. I'm trying to learn to camp and the ledge and use eggs and groundpound to mess with my console friends. Is this feasible or very easy to counter?

2. If I take the time to learn to parry is it easy enough to actually use effectively in real games?

3. When I try to DJC bair, I sometimes turn around and use forward air by mistake. How do I prevent this?

4. This one may be stupid but when I DJC should I z-cancel too, and is there times where I don't need to? This question applies for ness too.

1. Depending on who they use, it is either a somewhat ok idea, a somewhat bad idea or a really bad idea. Certain chars (like Fox, Falcon, Pika, Mario, Yoshi, DK Ness) can punish the down b (or at least clash with it) as they would realized if they just hit Yoshi out of a down b, its a freebee kill. DK for example can just up b it. Same applies to ending lag from using an LCE (Ledge-cancelled egg, lolmeleetechs.) I use it every so often to force a character back, works somewhat well vs Jigglypuff and Luigi for some reason.

2. Yes, as long as you don't try to abuse it. It is quite useful vs. a whole bunch of characters.

3. Not sure, how do you hold the controller. Make sure you don't hit the control stick in the opposite way, Yoshi turns around surprisingly quickly when DJC'ing. It can be useful in combos though. You can see an example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BMs90hHwW0 (with a turn-around n-air) or here (with a turn around f-air) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDuTZkjrULE Yay advertising

4. I z-cancel all of my aerials just in case i miss a DJC but you don't need to

inb4starking corrects me

 

[Yobolight]

What is a good way to punish Pikachus who utilt too much?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

What is a good way to punish Pikachus who utilt too much?

I tend to use short hop b-air vs it, dash attack (rarely though as it does have ending lag) or d-tilt. In general You can punish the ending lag if close enough.

 

[bloodpeach]

What's the best way to get good enough at parries and shield breaks to pull them off in a real match? I'm not good enough to do either without making punishable mistakes u_u

 

[clubbadubba]

What is a good way to punish Pikachus who utilt too much?

Sheer does this pretty well, but when you suspect an utilt, jump like you're going in to bait the utilt, djc to stay in the air a bit longer, then attack them when the hitbox goes away.

 

[Sangoku]

What's the best way to get good enough at parries

Shield everytime before jumping, crouch before trying a standing parry.

 

[B-Town]

Is the shield before jumping in order to get used to parry jumping?

 

[Sangoku]

You should parry jump everytime you jump. You don't lose too much time and you'll get easy parries when people try to hit you as you jump. Other than that, just crouch and read.

 

[The Star King]

IDK about every time

Like if there's no way for them to hit you, like maybe they're recovering or something, no reason to waste a few frames

 

[Sangoku]

You're right, but I thought implementing this as a second nature was more important than the few frames (not sure they really matter).