You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Jaedrik]

Lyn can use a bow when promoted.

If we're picking from an FE character with a bow, Lyn. My pick for an actual archer is Virion.

Iaido and a Yumi. Mmm, delicious. My martial-artism is thoroughly aroused. I would like that very much.

What do you guys think about Walhart? He can use all three of the weapon types from the weapon triangle, with his primary being an axe that doubles as a throwing axe, and rides a horse. He could represent the triangle mechanic!
He's my favorite, my vote for him on the Awakening poll would have been no troll vote.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Iaido and a Yumi. Mmm, delicious. My martial-artism is thoroughly aroused. I would like that very much.

What do you guys think about Walhart? He can use all three of the weapon types from the weapon triangle, with his primary being an axe that doubles as a throwing axe, and rides a horse. He could represent the triangle mechanic!
He's my favorite, my vote for him on the Awakening poll would have been no troll vote.

I'm a bit biased against Walhart. The 10 chapter tangent dealing with walhart in my opinion was bad for the story. It made it less focused and prevented the game from adding detail to the places that needed it. The struggle against Validar felt a bit rushed and unfamiliar. So, I'm pinning the blame on Walhart for being a distraction.

Hes a neat character, not sure I like his design though.

 

[jaytalks]

People who refuse to believe facts are not optimists, they are living in world of fantasy, I don't mind you supporting the character but what I really don't like the fact that you deny the fact, it's OK if you support Lucina, but don't dis the fact that she is a Marth gender swap, she is Marth with long hair and barely visible boobs, and don't bring up that she can be great lord argument, it's obvious that Sakurai targets the most iconic look for a character, and BTW the promotions are non-canon in the story because she can be any class(except barbarian and warriors), if Ike' s canon promotion wasn't even seen on SSBB what makes you think that Sakurai would use Great Lord outfit....Chrom is the best way to go for Sakurai, because he actually can make him a replacement of Ike if time constraints prevented him from completing Ike....there is one thing I'm sure about in SSB. about the Fire Emblem characters and that is there will always the Strong/Slow character and the Weak/Fast character....

People who say things are facts before they have confirmed are... uh... people who do that. I don't get why people have made up all these rules about the next Smash without any confirmation from the developers. We are all just speculating from very little data. Chrom has a better chance than Lucina, but Lucina has a better chance than a great deal of the other characters discussed. She's one of the main characters in a million seller game, and often time acts as the face of the game. She appears by herself in some of the promotional material, and whenever Chrom is there, a masked Marth is not far behind.

Calling her a gender swap is part of the problem. Didn't Luigi start as pallet swap of Mario? Gender swap isn't a term a prefer to use, nor much care for when it's used in a negatively light. She's her own character who looks and dresses like her legendary ancestor as a disguise. That's part of the storyline. Her outfit is unique and a well design homage to Marth. But she has her own personality, fighting style, and unique artistic rendering within the game she's in. And I still think Nintendo can do whatever they want. My point is there are ways to differentiate that Nintendo could use that wouldn't betray the style of Smash Bros or Lucina.

Smash just always has diverse styles within a series. If FE already has a fast character (Marth), and a slow but strong type (Ike), then it has room for a mid speed character (which Chrom or Lucina could easily fill).

On the archer thing, Rolf is the best archer and also has the best name. With the plethora of characters in its game, I think it's weird that the series doesn't have it's own item to my knowledge. So in the next Smash, there should be a warp staff item. When you use it, it shouldn't warp you or any of your opponents. It should warp in one of the characters from the series' history. I know some may say it's too similar to the pokeball, but FE just has so many awesome characters to take advantage of.

I like Walhart. I married him to my avatar in one of the playthroughs. He apparently is one of the more popular characters in the west according to a poll posted on FB.

 

[Jaedrik]

I'm a bit biased against Walhart. The 10 chapter tangent dealing with walhart in my opinion was bad for the story. It made it less focused and prevented the game from adding detail to the places that needed it. The struggle against Validar felt a bit rushed and unfamiliar. So, I'm pinning the blame on Walhart for being a distraction.
Hes a neat character, not sure I like his design though.

I know what you mean, a lot of people don't like what he did to the plot. I for one absolutely loved it, it made the conflict with Validar distant in the present threat of the Conqueror, it also lent heavily towards the rest of what was going on in the west, especially with Tiki, Say'ri, etc, otherwise those would probably be blank. I think it's a good way to get those other characters in there. Opportunity cost and all that considered, I think he was a good diversion, not much else would be handled as easily or smoothly, there's little room to improve here. Honestly I was confused at first when it happened, but I got over it quick.

I like his design primarily because RED AND DEATH AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Also, his philosophy and supports are really cool.

 

[Jaedrik]

HOW DID THIS HORRIBLE DOUBLE POST HAPPEN?!?!??

 

[SirBrickingtonCrushworthy]

Hey guys, have you all played Tear Ring Saga? If not, I would highly recommend it, just finished. It's essentially Fire Emblem on the PSX, and this is further backed up by the fact that the creator Shozou Kaga made the game. Of course, Nintendo sued over it, but they lost. Enough of that, though. You'll have to find it on your own (via google) because it's Japanese only, but Ayashii gamesubs has a translation patch out for it.
As an FE game it's great because it includes many great elements from the series, and then makes others a bit more comprehensive. Also the skill list is about the same as Radiant Dawn, probably the most advanced in terms of skills. TL;DR TearRing Saga was made by FE's creator and is essentially the most advanced FE created.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

People who say things are facts before they have confirmed are... uh... people who do that. I don't get why people have made up all these rules about the next Smash without any confirmation from the developers. We are all just speculating from very little data. Chrom has a better chance than Lucina, but Lucina has a better chance than a great deal of the other characters discussed. She's one of the main characters in a million seller game, and often time acts as the face of the game. She appears by herself in some of the promotional material, and whenever Chrom is there, a masked Marth is not far behind.

Calling her a gender swap is part of the problem. Didn't Luigi start as pallet swap of Mario? Gender swap isn't a term a prefer to use, nor much care for when it's used in a negatively light. She's her own character who looks and dresses like her legendary ancestor as a disguise. That's part of the storyline. Her outfit is unique and a well design homage to Marth. But she has her own personality, fighting style, and unique artistic rendering within the game she's in. And I still think Nintendo can do whatever they want. My point is there are ways to differentiate that Nintendo could use that wouldn't betray the style of Smash Bros or Lucina.

Smash just always has diverse styles within a series. If FE already has a fast character (Marth), and a slow but strong type (Ike), then it has room for a mid speed character (which Chrom or Lucina could easily fill).

On the archer thing, Rolf is the best archer and also has the best name. With the plethora of characters in its game, I think it's weird that the series doesn't have it's own item to my knowledge. So in the next Smash, there should be a warp staff item. When you use it, it shouldn't warp you or any of your opponents. It should warp in one of the characters from the series' history. I know some may say it's too similar to the pokeball, but FE just has so many awesome characters to take advantage of.

I like Walhart. I married him to my avatar in one of the playthroughs. He apparently is one of the more popular characters in the west according to a poll posted on FB.

Chrom and Lucina are a pair who resemble Ike and Marth in Smash, Both Lucina and Chrom share the same class, but the difference is the stats distribution, where Lucina is fast Chrom is strong....that's why Chrom resembles Ike and Lucina resembles Marth....

 

[LaniusShrike]

Since I actually haven't played Awakening I had to look up most of those archers...
Virion seems completely awesome. I always like the characters that look like they should be shooting craps in a Casino instead of shooting arrows into enemies.

Noire sounds super interesting. You could definitely give her an interesting moveset based off of her dark magic as well as switching personalities.
Super awesome. She'd be my archer+dark magic pick.

Rolf is classic, though he doesn't actually interest me much. His brothers could come in for his final smash and kick some ass!

I'm kind of anti-Walhart. We already have our Fire Emblem strong weapon user who focuses his strength at the tip of his blade. Ike practically plays like a character with a heavy axe already, I think a more colorful character can be picked that'd bring more to Smash. Sure he could use something other than an axe, but an axe feels most right for him.
An interesting and different moveset could be applied to Walhart, sure, but a more interesting and more different moveset could be put onto someone else (in my opinion).

 

[LaniusShrike]

Double post. Can you seriously not just delete your posts somehow? Is there some, like, hidden self-destruct button somewhere?

What's with Smashboards right now, weirdly laggy.

 

[Jaedrik]

An interesting and different moveset could be applied to Walhart, sure, but a more interesting and more different moveset could be put onto someone else (in my opinion).

Did you know he can use spears too? He also rides a horse.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Did you know he can use spears too? He also rides a horse.

Sure he could use something other than an axe, but an axe feels most right for him.

That's just my opinion. The thing just is, he's known for his signature giant, red axe.

Also... I highly suspect we'll never see an FE character riding a horse as part of his moveset.

I'm not trying to get down on you for supporting him, I'm just saying that he is not the character that I would personally pick by a long shot.

 

[jaytalks]

Chrom and Lucina are a pair who resemble Ike and Marth in Smash, Both Lucina and Chrom share the same class, but the difference is the stats distribution, where Lucina is fast Chrom is strong....that's why Chrom resembles Ike and Lucina resembles Marth....

Yeah but there's no reason why in Smash 4 there can't be a middle ground. If Marth and Ike return, then there is room for a middle speed fighter. Chrom could occupy that role but so could Lucina.

Riding characters would be just awkward. Would they always be riding it? Could you knock out the horse as well? Would Nintendo get into a back and forth with PETA again if you could?

Any character with a mount should not have their mount. It's that simple. Lords only get a mount after a promotion (the ones that do that is).

 

[LaniusShrike]

Yeah but there's no reason why in Smash 4 there can't be a middle ground. If Marth and Ike return, then there is room for a middle speed fighter. Chrom could occupy that role but so could Lucina.

Riding characters would be just awkward. Would they always be riding it? Could you knock out the horse as well? Would Nintendo get into a back and forth with PETA again if you could?

Any character with a mount should not have their mount. It's that simple. Lords only get a mount after a promotion (the ones that do that is).

Yeah, I personally feel kind of weird about large vehicles or creatures being summoned out of thin air. I know I shouldn't since characters do similar things all the time, but still... kind of odd. Mostly, odd seeing it coming from more realistic characters like the FE crowd.

Riding in on a horse or pegasus would be a pretty slick stage intro for any FE character, though. I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Keeping in mind that Walhart wouldn't be my favored choice...
Walhart could definitely be fun, especially if he was created as the heaviest, slowest, and strongest character in Smash. Throw in some power armor and high priority during certain attacks, turn him into a tank that you need to be strategic about fighting. Basically, turn him into a playable boss, ha... tick away at his % from afar if you can and start KOing him when he's 200%+
Even though I say that he'd be most represented with the axe, I do love movesets that propose weapon switches. If he could switch between Sword, Axe, and Lance (attack speed, power, and range respectively) then he could be interesting.

And, hey, he'd fulfill the call to have an FE villain.

WALHART the CONQUEROR​

Proposed specials:
Some of his specials change based off of the weapon equipped. He has his signature axe Wolf Berg, the sword he is encountered with Sol, and the lance Luna.

Neutral B, CONQUEST​

This special changes based on which weapon is equipped. While initiating these attacks, he glows obviously and cannot be interrupted except by powerful attacks, though he takes damage as normal.
-Axe, WOLF BERG: Walhart raises his axe into the air and then leaps powerfully into the sky and then downward again. On the way up, enemies are launched to the sky and on the way down hit enemies are spiked.
-Sword, SOL: Walhart brings his sword up until it glows, then he strikes down with it. Anyone hit takes damage and is knocked away and Walhart recovers the % damage dealt.
-Lance, LUNA: Walhart brings his lance backward until it glows, then he dashes forward with uncharacteristic speed to impale enemies in a line. The attack has the unique ability to completely ignore shields and to hit shielded targets as normal.

Side B, DESTRUCTIVE DISCARD​

Walhart throws his currently equipped weapon sideways and grabs the next one in the cycle. As before, while initiating the attack he glows obviously to indicate that he cannot be interrupted and should be avoided. All projectiles are affected by gravity.
-Axe: Really slow startup as Walhart leans back with the axe and then heaves the gigantic Wolf Berg forward in a destructive, spinning deathtrap. Best to be avoided, this is a killer. Hits once then disappears.
-Sword: A quicker projectile that just sends a spinning sword forward. Hits once then disappears.
-Lance: Slower startup as Walhart leans back and then throws the spear like a heavy javelin. The lance pierces an unlimited number of targets until it goes off screen or hits something.

Down B, AEGIS​

Walhart roots his feet into the ground, closes his eyes, and just concentrates. For the next two seconds, he cannot be launched or made to flinch but will still receive damage. Any damage he received during the stance is then channeled into increasing the damage and knockback of his next Smash attack.

Up B, NO CLUE​

I don't really like the thought of him as a super heavy tank leaping far enough to warrant a recovery. So, here are my thoughts:
-Some sort of grappling hook, perhaps he arcs one or two giant kasari-gama (sickle + chain + flail) to lodge the sickle end into the stage and climb up the chain.
-Grab a ride with a wyvern or something. I don't like spawning creatures suddenly, but there you go.
-Doesn't have a significant recovery, but instead just be made to resist getting knocked off in the first place and receives another attack for his up+b.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

My current thoughtd on the Fire Emblem roster:

-Marth
-Robin
-Chrom

Marth would just use his sword, like usual. Robin (being a multi-gendered character, you can pick to be the male or female Robin) would have both magic and a sword. Chrom would be able to use his sword on top of a lance and bow.

Something like that, pretty different.

*Also look........no Micaiah *

 

[Jaedrik]

I would laugh. . . very hard if Walhart actually got in as you have described him, mega super heavy tank that can't recover and is immune to knockback at certain times. Genius.
I would be in awe, thoroughly enjoying myself as I tested him out on an unsuspecting Jigglypuff CPU.

Hey, he DID come in second in the Awakening popularity polls here in the states

Hey look, Anna right behind Chrom! And judging by this poll, really, the representative should be "Marth".

FE event match: Limit Breaker! Defeat the Emblemiers at their maximum potential!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

Would you guys be satisfied if we got....
Marth
Ike
Roy or Chrom

as our FE characters? That would be three characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That's basically what I want for Fire Emblem. Marth, Ike, and Chrom. I wouldn't mind Roy though.

 

[•Col•]

Chrom lost to THARJA????

Tharja, really?? D: And it wasn't even close..

 

[Deleted member]

Our Awakening rep MUST be Walhart.
NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

[~Peachy~]

I hope Ike will stay as a Fire Emblem representative and keep his younger look from Brawl. He did not age well in his series to me.. ^__^;

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I hope Ike will stay as a Fire Emblem representative and keep his younger look from Brawl. He did not age well in his series to me.. ^__^;

Lol, Ike is awesome in Radian Dawn, they need to implement the Radiant Dawn design for the fact that RD design reflects the Strong/Slow fighter better then his PoR....

Edit: Oh my god, the new Fire Emblem fans are obnoxious they treat Awakening like it's the best game in the series, If I was a fan who begun Fire Emblem from awakening I will consider myself lucky because there is still 10 more games to complete :D.....and please guys Fire Emblem Awakening is awesome but it's not the best in the series....

 

[kikaru]

Chrom lost to THARJA????

Tharja, really?? D: And it wasn't even close..

A lot of people lost to Tharja in multiple polls, not just this one. In terms of the official poll taken in Japan the most popular parents are Chrom, Gaius, Tharja, and Cordelia while the most popular children are Lucina, Owain, Inigo, and Severa. Hence this is why we see the parents get special outfits in Summer Scramble while the kids get outfits in Hot-Spring Scramble.

 

[•Col•]

Don't like where the Fire Emblem series is heading.. I thought the majority of fans didn't like the anime cliches and such.. But now I see that they're catering to the large weaboo crowd and that kind of stuff is probably going to stick around. ;-;

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Don't like where the Fire Emblem series is heading.. I thought the majority of fans didn't like the anime cliches and such.. But now I see that they're catering to the large weaboo crowd and that kind of stuff is probably going to stick around. ;-;

I sure hope not.

I like to think (although its probably not true) that the anime tropes were added in a desperate attempt to appeal to a larger audience because FE was on thin ice. FE wasn't doing too well so maybe they decided the more they changed the better.

There were plenty of great things in Awakening while some others were not so great. I hope when IS looks back for future games they're able to pick out the good from the bad.

 

[Hong]

That Facebook poll is bad. A lot of people would say Chrom is their second, third, fourth or fifth main character, but you could only choose one. Also, some of the characters appeared twice on the poll, but they did not appear in the actual results. Walhart's popularity is entirely as a result of error. In addition, it was posted on a general Facebook page run by Nintendo for 3DS in of its entirety. Of course people will just vote for Marth if they just know about the name from Smash Bros.

 

[kikaru]

While Walhart is a certified beast in his own right I'd give the award for best villain/boss in Awakening to Mustafa. He resonated with me a lot more than any of the bosses in Awakening and was one of the few bosses I ever felt bad for having to kill.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Alright folks.

So.... apparently. The Avatar has appeared in two games actually. The two most recent games, FE12 and FE13.

It looks like the avatar MAY become a main staple of the series. If this was the case would you support The Avatar for smash? Not necessarily Smash 4 but a future smash nonetheless.

 

[Hong]

Not quite.

There is no canon confirmation that the avatar from FE7, FE12 and FE13 are the same. In FE13, Lyn will ask you if you are in fact the tactician who aided her. Marth will also comment how you remind him of a life-long friend. But as it stands, there is no real solid connection between them.

Chris (FE12) is a youth from the small village of Sera. She or he is either the child of a priest, farmer, noble, merchant, or is an orphan. Chris joins the Altean army and is soon to become Marth's personal bodyguard.
Robin is -- edit: my spoiler code is not working :[ --, I cannot see a way Robin and Chris are the same, but it is possible that Mark (FE7) and Robin are the same tactician. I wouldn't really consider it canon, but possible.

While Walhart is a certified beast in his own right I'd give the award for best villain/boss in Awakening to Mustafa. He resonated with me a lot more than any of the bosses in Awakening and was one of the few bosses I ever felt bad for having to kill.

I feel you. On the other hand, we have Cervantes and dat sick baller stache.

 

[jaytalks]

Don't like where the Fire Emblem series is heading.. I thought the majority of fans didn't like the anime cliches and such.. But now I see that they're catering to the large weaboo crowd and that kind of stuff is probably going to stick around. ;-;

I didn't really mind anime tropes but I'm someone who watches anime. I don't think Awakening is the best game in the series, but for me it's the one that's most fun to play. It's the one I'd recommend to anyone, and that I can keep playing because of the sheer customization. And pairing makes support much easier and useful. Add in a few of my favorite characters in the series (Lucina, Henry, and Severa) and that's what make it my favorite.
I rather like Ike's redesign in RD. I feel like he can become even slower and stronger with this design. I remember being disappointed that Brawl had his old design.
In terms of the avatar, I'm not in favor of adding the character. I don't want a character whose face we can't see (if the went with the hooded design) because it's not the design of the character. The alternative is to fill in the blanks of what should be a customizable character, inevitable giving a look, sound, and style that the player does not choose. This appearance also canonizes an appearance to non-fans or possible new fans. It works for AC because the village is the only playable character.

 

[Hong]

I thought the Greil Mercenaries were the best cast of characters the series has seen. I would love to hear them voice acted the same as it were in Awakening.

Especially Shinon. :b

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not quite.

There is no canon confirmation that the avatar from FE7, FE12 and FE13 are the same. In FE13, Lyn will ask you if you are in fact the tactician who aided her. Marth will also comment how you remind him of a life-long friend. But as it stands, there is no real solid connection between them.

Chris (FE12) is a youth from the small village of Sera. She or he is either the child of a priest, farmer, noble, merchant, or is an orphan. Chris joins the Altean army and is soon to become Marth's personal bodyguard.
Robin is -- edit: my spoiler code is not working :[ --, I cannot see a way Robin and Chris are the same, but it is possible that Mark (FE7) and Robin are the same tactician. I wouldn't really consider it canon, but possible.
I feel you. On the other hand, we have Cervantes and dat sick baller stache.

Never said they were the same avatars. I just meant that would you like it if we got an avatar as a character since avatars are a recurring thing in the series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Moving this here, where it belongs.

That "minority" of Western FE fans are the hardcore fans who bothered to download the game and play through it.

The fact that they're hardcore doesn't change the fact that they're a minority even among the western FE fanbase.

It can be hard to finding a large poll about Roy character purely from FE6. They're almost always riddled with Melee Roy fans who in many cases, have not played FE6.

You could say the same thing about Captain Falcon fans, or Ness fans.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

The fact that they're hardcore doesn't change the fact that they're a minority even among the western FE fanbase.

What I was trying to point out is that the Western fans who played FE6 are generally the hardcore fans.

You could say the same thing about Captain Falcon fans, or Ness fans.

Yep. I do not deny that. But what makes the situation different is somebody like captain falcon isn't about to be swapped out for samurai goroh or black shadow.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What I was trying to point out is that the Western fans who played FE6 are generally the hardcore fans.

I get that. Doesn't change the fact that they are still a small minority in the FE fanbase.

Yep. I do not deny that. But what makes the situation different is somebody like captain falcon isn't about to be swapped out for samurai goroh or black shadow.

True enough. However, characters from small series like that are in competition with characters from other small series. Given that Nintendo has no plans to continue either franchise at this point, I think that if they weren't part of the Original 12 there would be a lot less certainty over their returns

 

[TheTuninator]

Why does the fact that they are a minority within the FE fanbase matter? They are the segment of the Western FE fanbase who have actually played the game.

I am doubtful that we will see Roy simply because he isn't a great rep for Fire Emblem. The vast majority of his popularity comes from Smash, and that doesn't make him a good rep for the franchise. Other lords are more popular (Ike, Chrom, Lyn) and their games are more important to the franchise (Lyn's game being the first international one and Chrom's saving the franchise). If IS has any say in the matter, and previous games indicate that they do, I can't imagine them wanting Roy brought back over a different and probably newer Lord.

Even if we want to avoid so-called "flavor of the month" picks (which Roy was in the first place) Lyn still beats him out as a character who stands representative of FE as a series.

 

[Hong]

I wish Roy had actually been more like Roy when he was around.

Should be much shorter than Marth, notably lighter. Probably even more agile as a result of game logic. While he had an explosion with a fully charged Flare Blade, it would have been cool if he could fling explosions across the stage and whatnot. I envision a character that... has not really appeared in Smash Bros. It feels like time-constraints deprived of us a great character concept. Not to say Roy was not fun to play; if you took the time, he even had some competitive measure. Just wish that, when he while he was around, he could have been more like Roy.

On that note, it is still a bit odd to see Ranger Ike portrayed as such a slow character. I could definitely buy that with his Radiant Dawn image, but even then it just looks weird when I am so used to him flipping all over the place and being rather fleet of foot. The price of character diversity, I suppose. At the very least I will say Ike's moves were pretty creative and fitting for Gawain-style swordsmanship.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yeah, Ike being such a slow characters seemed very strange when I got my hands on brawl.

 

[Jaedrik]

That Facebook poll is bad. A lot of people would say Chrom is their second, third, fourth or fifth main character, but you could only choose one. Also, some of the characters appeared twice on the poll, but they did not appear in the actual results. Walhart's popularity is entirely as a result of error. In addition, it was posted on a general Facebook page run by Nintendo for 3DS in of its entirety. Of course people will just vote for Marth if they just know about the name from Smash Bros.

Poor excuse after poor excuse, just keep holding your fantasies about the Fire Emblem fanbase here in the states.



No, but seriously, it's not good to make such assumptions. I would not put Chrom as my top 5, my top 5 are, in order: Anna, Walhart, Libra, Rukina, and Lon'Qu.
But often when observing polls, it is useless to observe things which are outside the provided data, you don't know that Chrom would be higher, you don't know that Walhart's position was a mistake, you do not know that Rukina's position was based solely on people mistaking her for another, all it is is an opinion. Your affirmation that the Facebook poll is bad holds grounds on nothing but your feelings, but I encourage you to speak as such once you have absolute knowledge of the situation, do a poll of your own with the same exact population to sample from that has multiple selection and reveals who Rukina is.

 

[Deleted member]

How can anyone NOT want this sexy beast in Smash?

 

[FalKoopa]

How can anyone NOT want this sexy beast in Smash?

He's too hammy for Smash.