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Zelda Custom Moves - Because Din's Fire never looked like that anyway

Erotic&Heretic

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After all, every characters have custom moves, so why don't we talk about them for our Hyrulean Princess?

Edit: Known Zelda's Moves (thanks to neogaf user JoeInky) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129844715&postcount=3725

Nayru's Love
Variation 1: Nayru's Pulse
The Crystal on this one doesn't last as long as the default one and it only does 7% and does very small knockback (which is a set value, the other player's damage doesn't affect how far they go), it also flips the other player similar to Mario's cape, except that it doesn't always just turn them around, it always makes them face away from you.

Variation 2: Nayru's Explosion
Very similar to Ness' explosive PSI Magnet special, no crystal to reflect projectiles but it sucks people in and explodes dealing 15% damage and not too great knockback, but it's a good option if your opponent doesn't have a projectile.

Din's Fire
Variation 1: Fast Din's Fire
This version travels much faster and further but the tradeoff is that you have no vertical control over it, the range is enough that you'll practically be able to hit someone from anywhere other than maybe if you're both off stage.
The damage is spread evenly across the distance rather than increasing as it goes further, doing 7% clip damage/14% sweetspot damage wherever it hits, knockback also acts similarly, but seems to be higher than the default move.

Variation 2: Heavy Din's Fire
The third customisation gives you much greater vertical control, you can send it straight to the top of the screen without moving much horizontally, it's impossible to direct the move behind you though, and it moves a bit slower than the default.
When you release the button, the flame locks into position and explodes about a second later, the explosion gets larger the further it's traveled, being about the same size as the default one when fully charged at minimum charge and almost twice the size at maximum charge.
Damage and knockback at minimum charge is the same as the default special (3%/7%), but at maximum charge it goes up to 18% when sweetspotted and 9% when it clips.
KO potential is similar to Fast Din's fire, but the extra mobility and blast radius makes it easier to aim and connect, even if you miss the sweetspot. Be warned that the endlag on the move is definitely longer, so there's no combo shenanigans you can do like knocking someone into the stationary flame, so you are quite a bit more vulnerable.

Farore's Wind
Variation 1: Farore's Vortex

A move that forsakes damage for a greater distance traveled and a wind effect, the twirl hitbox pushes people away and the reappear hitbox knocks enemies vertically without doing any damage, an orb of light both telegraphs where you're going to be teleporting to and drags enemies with you.
I'm struggling to think of uses for this move, the improved recovery distance is ok, but her default recovery is already pretty damn good that the extra distance will only ever help in a few very specific situations, the endlag is still large enough that the second hitbox with the vertical knockback can't be used as a combo starter and the fact that it telegraphs where you are teleporting to makes you open to punishment as opposed to the unpredictability of the default Farore's Wind.

Variation 2: Farore's Meteor
In this customisation, you lose the ability to choose your direction, you must always go straight upwards, this limits the moves horizontal recovery potential but it comes with the benefit of a meteor effect on the second hitbox.
The damage on the twirl hitbox is slightly less (4%), but it does more vertical knockback and - at higher percents - the move quite nicely combo's into itself with the second hit smashing people diagonally downwards and doing 7% damage.
But don't be expecting too many quick kills, the fact that you have to take them up with you to meteor them means that they'll probably break out of the hitstun before they're even close to the blast zone at lower percents.

Phantom Slash
Variation 1: Phantom Push
This one is a strange one so there may be something I'm missing and if anyone knows anything I don't it would be great if they could point it out, this Phantom slash seems to be the opposite of the first one in that, if the opponent is next to you, the fully charged version will hit where the completely uncharged version will whiff.
The uncharged version does 5% damage and the fully charged version does 9% and 11% with similar knockback, both versions will push the player outwards.
This one seems very strange because it feels like I'm missing something, maybe the move has shield breaker properties or something?

Variation 2: Phantom CQC

This phantom will always appear right in front of you, no matter how charged it is, the two attack animations are both the same still with the uncharged version doing 8% damage and the fully charged version doing 13% and 15% damage, the knockback is also increased so it's a bit more of a KO move in this customisation.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Love that thread title.

What could be done with the Phantom Slash is that the Phantom more acts like an obstacle, and doesn't focus too much on attacking?

Nayru's Love and Din's Fire's options are quite a given. :laugh:

Faore's Wind also could work in the traditional, OoT way. Zelda uses it first on stage, and creates a portal where she'll later teleport to when pressing Up B again. Outside of recovery, she could use it to really, really **** around with her opponents as well. Especially on bigger stages!
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Faore's Wind also could work in the traditional, OoT way. Zelda uses it first on stage, and creates a portal where she'll later teleport to when pressing Up B again. Outside of recovery, she could use it to really, really **** around with her opponents as well. Especially on bigger stages!
I actually thought about that, but I first thought it was too complicated...

But now that I think about it again, I think it can work. It would be a powerful recovery, but in the same time, your opponent would surely know where you'll teleport, so it can be punished.
The thing to do is having no hints about where Zelda's teleport point is, except for an initial animation at the said place. Both Zelda and the opponent better remember where it is.

This and a faster, smaller Farore's Wind, similar to Mewtwo's teleport. I need this for trolling purpose.
 

Katty Shepherd

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Farore's wind could be more like Sheik's in brawl, really fast start up and ending animation but a shorter range. Or the explosion at the end can be even more powerful with a bigger blast, making it possible to use it as an attack.
 

BJN39

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Well, now that we know ever so much about Phantom Slash, it's time to take a blast to the past--2 months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XedCkXIO7SM

(9 seconds in)
Remember that moment when it was noticed her Phantom portal was located on different sides of Zelda in 2 different clips? Well, It can be seen that ALL of the Phantom Slash clips match the standard version of the move, except that one.

Also note how it uses less charge, (and even does the low charge phantom slash animation.) But goes MUCH farther. (Also, the portal is much bigger.)

"Phantom Lunge" perhaps?
 
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Having the original Din's Fire would actually be pretty awesome. Maybe her recovery move can have a variant that pushes enemies back really far.
 

jigglover

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Well most of these attacks have a slower, more powerful version and a faster, weaker version...

Nayru's Love - Faster version: The diamond itself is somewhat weaker, and it disappears earlier, but if you click your special button again, the diamond explodes, dealing fire damage.
Slower version: Zelda can send her diamond flying off in either direction, similar to Falco's reflector. It has high levels of knock back and damage at the start, which gets progressively weaker as it moves. After it's been happening for about 2/3 of it's time limit, it merely sends projectiles upwards, or if you're in the air, downwards, rather than back at the aggressor.

Din's Fire - Faster version: Is incredibly fast, but doesn't do much damage. Like the damage is an opponent getting hit by all of Sheik's needles, but also with a bit more knock back.
Slower version: Basically PK Pulse that you send sideways rather than upwards.

Teleport thing (what's it called? I can just think of Farore's Wind, but the attack has nothing to do with Farore or Wind!) --
Faster version: Much less starting lag, and it travels a little bit of a bigger distance. However, it only deals slight hitstun - no damage - and as such is the best for recovery, but not for an offensive nature. Slower version: Has more starting lag and travels a slightly shorter distance than the regular teleport thing, but it does a lot of damage. Plus, if you are in the line of Zelda's teleportation... you get hit. It would be pretty powerful, too, doing about 16% damage and medium knock back if you hit someone who is standing between your teleporting. About 28% damage and high knock back if you are hit by Zelda at either the beginning of the end of the attack.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Well most of these attacks have a slower, more powerful version and a faster, weaker version...
I don't think it's just "weaker, faster" and "slower, stronger" moves. There's other properties as well. Donkey Kong gain a Storm when punching, Marth get some kind of dash, and we saw in one of the Nintendo Treehouse video that Fox have a Charge Blaster.
Even Mario's "Fire Orb" isn't just a stronger Fireball, as it deals multiple hits. It becomes comparable to Ness' PK Fire, in fact.
Also, some moves like Mario's FLUDD can't just have those weaker/stronger variations: we saw he have a Scalding FLUDD, as well as a High pressure FLUDD.

I would be disapointed to see just a faster and a slower Din's Fire. I agree that the speed properties needs to change to give more variety, but as I stated, a Smart Bomb effect would be... Smart.

Future will tell us by the way!
 

jigglover

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I don't think it's just "weaker, faster" and "slower, stronger" moves. There's other properties as well. Donkey Kong gain a Storm when punching, Marth get some kind of dash, and we saw in one of the Nintendo Treehouse video that Fox have a Charge Blaster.
Even Mario's "Fire Orb" isn't just a stronger Fireball, as it deals multiple hits. It becomes comparable to Ness' PK Fire, in fact.
Also, some moves like Mario's FLUDD can't just have those weaker/stronger variations: we saw he have a Scalding FLUDD, as well as a High pressure FLUDD.

I would be disapointed to see just a faster and a slower Din's Fire. I agree that the speed properties needs to change to give more variety, but as I stated, a Smart Bomb effect would be... Smart.

Future will tell us by the way!
Seriously? Smart Bomb as a side attack would be so broken even Sakurai would notice it...

That's why I put PK Pulse but sideways as a possible Din's Fire substitute. I know that attacks aren't just faster and slower etc., but Zelda's attacks already do fire and magic damage. The stronger Nayru's Love could be a freezing one, I suppose, but besides that I don't really see many special effects that Zelda could have.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Seriously? Smart Bomb as a side attack would be so broken even Sakurai would notice it...

That's why I put PK Pulse but sideways as a possible Din's Fire substitute. I know that attacks aren't just faster and slower etc., but Zelda's attacks already do fire and magic damage. The stronger Nayru's Love could be a freezing one, I suppose, but besides that I don't really see many special effects that Zelda could have.
Well, a shorter, smaller smart bomb, of course. With an execution similar to PK Flash. It's already a strong move in SSB4, after all, so just a stronger explosion doesn't look like a good idea. That's why I think a little smart bomb with less knockback, but dealing more percents is a good thing.

About Nayru's love, there could be shards that are sent all around her, giving a shield similar to Megaman's leaf shield, holding it like Fox's reflector... There's many posibilities! Even if shards keep being shards, they can act in many ways.

The move that is the most difficult to edit is Farore's Wind, I think.
 

Phoenixian_Majesty

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Perhaps add some up velocity to one of the other moves if we're changing farores wind to a targeted teleport. This would allow some more variety. and force your opponent to think about how you will return, making it a little safer to recover.
 

Katy Parry

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Why can't farore's wind have a charge, like Diddy Kong's? Longer you charge, the farther you go, so the recovery distance isn't always as predictable.

Or how about she has a combo attack when she spins? Like Zamus new up B. You could combo with the reappearing hitbox as a finisher.
 

Katy Parry

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Actually, people are saying you can already do this with her [Zelda] normal Up B, combo the disappear hit into the "KOs Link at 100%" reappear hit.
I know, but I'm saying if you used it AS an attack, it would be like, a 7 hit combo, and the final hit would be similar KB to Zamus' finisher.

It would be awesome if she would automatically teleport to them (and then capped out at a certain distance) to knock them back.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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My main concern with variations on Farore's Wind is the fact there's no animations during the invisible time, and that the variations don't changes animations (but the speed can change: Donkey's side special for example).

The only thing I could imagine is Zelda leaving a trail of magical orbs exploding, quite like her Up air. The knockbacks could be set to make a combo.

By the way, Zelda uses three spells based on Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind and Din's Fire, we can take inspiration from that.
It starts at 0:45.

I do like that tornado, and that exploding crystal too!
 
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Katy Parry

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My main concern with variations on Farore's Wind is the fact there's no animations during the invisible time, and that the variations don't changes animations (but the speed can change: Donkey's side special for example).

The only thing I could imagine is Zelda leaving a trail of magical orbs exploding, quite like her Up air. The knockbacks could be set to make a combo.

By the way, Zelda uses three spells based on Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind and Din's Fire, we can take inspiration from that.
It starts at 0:45.

I do like that tornado, and that exploding crystal too!
Yeah, if Din's Fire is well, fire, and Farore's Wind is well, wind... then Nayru's Love should have freezing properties. I always found it rather odd Zelda being a mage didn't have an ice. She's more electric oriented, which is fine.

I wish Smash 4 had more status ailments. Like, if you're hit by fire, you're set on fire for a couple seconds (basically the EXACT effect lips stick has) and you take 1% per second. That would help Zelda rack up damage a bit easier.
 

Katy Parry

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Yeah, if Din's Fire is well, fire, and Farore's Wind is well, wind... then Nayru's Love should have freezing properties. I always found it rather odd Zelda being a mage didn't have an ice. She's more electric oriented, which is fine.

I wish Smash 4 had more status ailments. Like, if you're hit by fire, you're set on fire for a couple seconds (basically the EXACT effect lips stick has) and you take 1% per second. That would help Zelda rack up damage a bit easier.
The more and more I think about it, the more I'm loving Phantom Slash. I main Peach as well, and one of my favorite rarities would be throwing out a well timed forward B. However, she's always really vulnerable.

If Phantom has killing potential in the final build, it'll be a better move than Peach Bomber. Zelda isn't nearly as vulnerable as Peach is after, and Zelda can follow up, while Peach still has to get up. And I'm pretty sure the Phantom covers a bit more ground.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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I sense a post editing that failed into a quote :troll:
And exploding crystal that freeze enemies could be cool.

And about status, I can't agree more. That's one of the main reasons I support Medusa: Poison attacks. On a side note, Ashley seems to poison people (they turn slighty purple). But I also can understand that fire, electrical effects are just for visual purposes.
 

Veggi

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I think it's actually pretty easy to just make an OoT version and a Hyrule Warriors version of each move. lol

Nayru's Love

Ocarina of Time: The animation for Nayru's love is longer, it does no damage, and does not reflect projectiles. However, the diamond will surround her and absorb one attack for free.

Hyrule Warriors: Zelda puts the diamond that would normally surround her 2 Bowsers-hugging in front of her. It stays there and will absorb 30% worth of damage before it breaks like Wario's bike. If Zelda activates Nayru's love again, it will burst and diamond pieces will damage opponents in close proximity.

Din's Fire
Ocarina of Time: Instead of Din's Fire exploding at whatever size was determined by however long the player held the move, the move goes through all of those stages by itself while being active. However, only the size grows. The move is now a multi-hit attack. If you are close to Zelda when the move activates, you will take damage from every hit of the move. All of the hits combined only do as much as Zelda's max strength regular Din's Fire, but with less kill potential.

Hyrule Warriors: Din's Fire is still a projectile but it only travels along the ground. Zelda can basically "nuke" a part of the stage. The effect of the nuke is identical to the OoT version above, but with 2/3 the damage.

Farore's Wind
Ocarina of Time: Same as OP's. Zelda sets a fixed point to return to that she has to reset every time she activates it. The animation for setting and returning to the point is slower than her original up special so the opponent can get to her before she finishes setting up another one.

Hyrule Warriors: Farore's Wind is basically surrounded by an even bigger vertical version of DK's storm punch the entire way through. It pushes opponents away on both sides. The downsides are she can only use it vertically and she is visible/vulnerable during it. Though, she is surrounded by a tornado so maybe vulnerable isn't the right word.

This way, all of Zelda's special moves can be interesting/relevant to her games while only altering things that already exist to serve new purpose. No new animations needed.

I don't know jack about knight man so I'm going to skip him.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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I feel like variation 1 of farore's would be too weak without a hitbox since people could just stand at that point.

A really cool idea nonetheless.
 

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I just want her to close her damn eyes when she casts the spell, followed by the "YEAAAA-AAATTTTT!" battle cry like in Melee. Just give me that back.

Please.

I also don't like how Zelda's magic sounds for Side B and Down B are the SAME. Two COMPLETELY different spells. Make a different ****ing sound.
 

BJN39

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^ SO this. I <3 that "Heyaaa!!" She makes in Melee when setting off Din's fire. I also love the "Hauugh!!!" She makes when she used FW. Sakurai bring back plz.

Also, what's this about "Magma Beat" @ Katy Parry Katy Parry
 

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One of the things to remember is that the move needs to match the animation, I don't believe they're changing the base motions at all, maybe the effect around it but that's it. I don't know if the move will speed up or slow did with it though. Just keep that in mind.
*returns to lurking in shadows*
 

Erotic&Heretic

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One of the things to remember is that the move needs to match the animation, I don't believe they're changing the base motions at all, maybe the effect around it but that's it. I don't know if the move will speed up or slow did with it though. Just keep that in mind.
*returns to lurking in shadows*
We saw DK's headbutt being super slow, but with super armor, so the animations' speed can be edited. But yes, the animations are the same (Mario's Super Jump Punch is still a Super Jump in every customisations, same for DK's Punch, ect.)
 

Katty Shepherd

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We saw DK's headbutt being super slow, but with super armor, so the animations' speed can be edited. But yes, the animations are the same (Mario's Super Jump Punch is still a Super Jump in every customisations, same for DK's Punch, ect.)
That goes for everyone, expect Palutena.
 

micstar615

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Hmmmm...her customs are a bit underwhelming...most of them are just faster or slower versions of the originals. Was hoping for some more diversity :/ I think standard FW is the best, the fast Din's may be better but I think it'll still suffer from some of the same issues as the original. The custom Phantoms seem....ok? The customs are more "gtfo" type of moves but Naryu's and Dsmash already do that. The custom Naryus also seem too situational. We'll have to test these moves.
 
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Katty Shepherd

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Toadallstar2

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Not really sure what to think on these. We're all gonna have to try them out. All the customs seem very situational and it might just be safe to keep the originals.

Fast dins might be pretty great though.
 

Chauzu

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Ok, here we go.


My initial reactions are:

Neutral B

These all feel viable. Haven't tested the two new ones a lot yet (since you can't use them in For Glory mode) but the Explosive is pretty powerful and kills at higher %, but at the same time you might as well use Faroe's Wind at that close distance for kill move.... Well, just me thinking aloud, I'm not sure here.

Side B

The fast one looks nice but I feel like how weak it is doesn't make it worth it? But at the same time, that distance is nice but it's a shame you can't aim it more. I was pretty hyped testing the 3rd move since the description made me imagine I could place it and leave it lying or something, but unfortunately you are stuck in an animation for the duration and you can't start moving until it actually explodes so horrible lag.

Up B

Yeah Faroe's Wind is so good there's not much else the others can do. I wasn't expecting them to be better than what is already the best recovery move in the game imo and I think you will agree with me.

Down B

I wasn't able to test the 2nd one properly due to no option for NPC's to shield in Training but it is supposed to have some form of shield breaking affect, I will try it more later. The 3rd was interesting though since it's quite powerful even uncharged - just watched how long away Fox is pushed! Little Mac would probably be dead getting blown away so far. I see huge potential in this move.
 

RyokoYaksa

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Thanks for the video. It was a good source of new info. With that said...

The other Nayru's variations don't look good. #2 looks punishable on hit, and #3 only has windboxes before the explosion. Your opponent would have to be exceedingly slow or have made a huge error to not be able to interrupt/block this. Losing the reflect function on top of that kills it. Base Nayru's might be the best thing here.

Din's #2 actually looks useful for applying pressure in ranged combat, but with what happened to Brawl Din's early on it's something that needs to be used in play to get a good judge of. #3 looks bad because of the horrid release lag, which is a shame because it otherwise could've been good for certain players.

Farore's #2 actually looks like something that would damage foes in her travel path (why else would there be an energy ball showing the teleport?), but I couldn't really tell what it did from the video. The higher startup is what we're already used to in Melee/Brawl/PM, if that winds up being the case then it could be worth using. I couldn't really tell what #3 did in the video, either.

Phantom Slash #2 looks to be the best of the lot if only because the uncharged version actually goes a good distance, which the shield damage being gravy. This is honestly what the move needs to fill a niche in Zelda's ranged game. #3 doesn't look good for this reason, as she has plenty of ways to hit hard from up close.
 

Katty Shepherd

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Ok, here we go.


My initial reactions are:

Neutral B

These all feel viable. Haven't tested the two new ones a lot yet (since you can't use them in For Glory mode) but the Explosive is pretty powerful and kills at higher %, but at the same time you might as well use Faroe's Wind at that close distance for kill move.... Well, just me thinking aloud, I'm not sure here.

Side B

The fast one looks nice but I feel like how weak it is doesn't make it worth it? But at the same time, that distance is nice but it's a shame you can't aim it more. I was pretty hyped testing the 3rd move since the description made me imagine I could place it and leave it lying or something, but unfortunately you are stuck in an animation for the duration and you can't start moving until it actually explodes so horrible lag.

Up B

Yeah Faroe's Wind is so good there's not much else the others can do. I wasn't expecting them to be better than what is already the best recovery move in the game imo and I think you will agree with me.

Down B

I wasn't able to test the 2nd one properly due to no option for NPC's to shield in Training but it is supposed to have some form of shield breaking affect, I will try it more later. The 3rd was interesting though since it's quite powerful even uncharged - just watched how long away Fox is pushed! Little Mac would probably be dead getting blown away so far. I see huge potential in this move.
Thanks for the video!
We should also think about how these can come together as a certain strategy, not just how they work on their own. We could have a really powerful close range Zelda or a kind of sniper Zelda of sorts. Farore's Wind itself pretty much creates all the mobility we need and we even have a faster/longer ranged one now. Seeing how fast it is... I could see it being as much a defensive option as an offensive one.
 

Chauzu

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Yeah Faroe's Wind is crazy - can't really stress that enough. Espescially as the opponent will be very vary of getting hit by it as well, espescially when you're in the damage range of getting KO'd - it's basically a free escape card as you can move away from the danger as the opponent will most likely be shielding or spot dodging.
 

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As I see, the optimal build would be Regular Nayru's Love, Regular Din's Fire, Regular Farore Wind and Phantom N3 ( After we see what Phantom N2 can do then Phantom N3). I can't believe 3/4 of Zelda's customs suck.
 

micstar615

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Thanks for the video @ Chauzu Chauzu !

Standard Naryu's and FW seem better than the custom options, I'm fine with FW, I think it's one of her best moves now as is.

The fast Din's seems much better than the original Din's, it seems to be a much better projectile because of it's speed, regular Dins' problem was that it was too slow and predictable, this might be able to alleviate some of that, however it'll need testing, I'm not too certain if it's fast enough to not suffer the same problems as regular Dins.

Both the custom versions of Phantom seem better than the original imo.
 
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