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Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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DDD's sheildgrab is too good though. it's completely unsafe to hit his sheild. he does so much damage with a single throw AND he can kill early. it helps even the matchup some
I know this is kind of off topic, but what are the cases for Ganon vs Zelda?

I know this person who plays a Ganon & he always beats me when I play Zelda. However, I beat him a few times with Toon Link.
Ganon's D-air is so annoying.. It can be 2comboed & deals MASSIVE damage, not to mention how easily it spikes.

Maybe I just suck? lol. @_@
Zelda can brickwall ganondorf untill the cows come home. unless he's tricking you, he should not be winning.

or just go sheik and win by pressing ANYTHING you want.
 

Kataefi

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The moment you even think he's going to thunderstorm, get as far away as possible or FW out of the way if you know you'll get out unscathed in this fashion. Don't get too close to him ever. She has her FSmash and Din's for a reason, abuse them and you should be fine! :)

You need to be the one forcing him into unwanted positions. Din's is handy for baiting reactions, but don't overuse it. Don't approach him, let him come to you and you should be fine. He has no approaches on you. If he's thunderstorming towards you, din's from a distance. If he comes from above, USmash or SH Uair. USmash does outprioritise his dair, which is always handy!

Also use less nayrus! It's far too laggy and Ganon and hits so hard it's unreal. Never use it against him ever! Substitute with DSmash and Dtilts and you'll be fine!
 

Kaffei

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The moment you even think he's going to thunderstorm, get as far away as possible or FW out of the way if you know you'll get out unscathed in this fashion. Don't get too close to him ever. She has her FSmash and Din's for a reason, abuse them and you should be fine! :)

You need to be the one forcing him into unwanted positions. Din's is handy for baiting reactions, but don't overuse it. Don't approach him, let him come to you and you should be fine. He has no approaches on you. If he's thunderstorming towards you, din's from a distance. If he comes from above, USmash or SH Uair. USmash does outprioritise his dair, which is always handy!

Also use less nayrus! It's far too laggy and Ganon and hits so hard it's unreal. Never use it against him ever! Substitute with DSmash and Dtilts and you'll be fine!
Then again I have been using a quite a few Nayru's....

Thanks for the help guys, hopefully I can beat him next time, lol. >.>

It's even harder to DI from Ganon's attacks since he hits DAM hard. Hyuk hyuk.....
 

Kataefi

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From my own personal matchup chart inside my head, I'm saying:

55:45 - 60:40 Zelda's advantage against Diddy

And for just for kicks:

60:40 - 65:35 Zelda's advantage against D3

55:45 - 60:40 Zelda's advantage against Toon Link
 

Kaffei

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From my own personal matchup chart inside my head, I'm saying:

55:45 - 60:40 Zelda's advantage against Diddy

And for just for kicks:

60:40 - 65:35 Zelda's advantage against D3

55:45 - 60:40 Zelda's advantage against Toon Link
Toon Link is so fun to play.
..Off topic again. -_-''

I've never played against a Diddy before, so.. Z_Z
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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The moment you even think he's going to thunderstorm, get as far away as possible or FW out of the way if you know you'll get out unscathed in this fashion. Don't get too close to him ever. She has her FSmash and Din's for a reason, abuse them and you should be fine! :)

You need to be the one forcing him into unwanted positions. Din's is handy for baiting reactions, but don't overuse it. Don't approach him, let him come to you and you should be fine. He has no approaches on you. If he's thunderstorming towards you, din's from a distance. If he comes from above, USmash or SH Uair. USmash does outprioritise his dair, which is always handy!

Also use less nayrus! It's far too laggy and Ganon and hits so hard it's unreal. Never use it against him ever! Substitute with DSmash and Dtilts and you'll be fine!
farore's is a really really silly way to try to avoid a thunderstorm... like... I'd say bordering on stupidity. if you have THAT much time, just smash him in the face <_< Srsly, usmash wins if you get it off.

yeah that's right. din's so he approaches but don't use it once he's in range to attack you. it's so easy to stop his flame choke with fsmash that he'll stop using it soon enough.

Nayru's is still just as fast starup wise as ever and it's got applications the others don't. you should never have been using nayru's in such a stupid fashion so as to get punished anyway.


oh and I guess we did matchup numbers?

Diddy
50:50-55:45 Zelda
DDD
60:40-65:35 Zelda
TL
65:35-55:45 TL

edit:
oh wait... I already said that... ohwell it's something. and I know Quivo agrees with me that it's TL's advantage.


PS. the toon link thread has it listed as 60:40 TL's advantage. I agree with that fine enough.
 

Villi

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Zelda has to play so gay against Diddy, it's unreal. If he isn't jumping into your ****, he can really do some damage. Sheik usually has an easier time getting in. I'd say it's 50-50 for Zelda just cuz he can't really kill you.
 

RoyalBlood

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Umm. Mr. Sonic? The thread you mentioned has that TL has the advantage over everyone (well, not everyone nbut you understand >_>) 2 evens and 2 disadvantages so >_> <_< >.> <.< ( who knows maybe it's right >_>)

And the one that who? (Kataefi >_>) mentioned has it at 60:40 Zelda unresolved so we are at

60:40 TL
60:40 Zelda

So I'll go and post 50:50 (or should i leave it as ?:?) until you reach and agreement for the sake of having numbers AND please people :( don't give open numbers >_> If i choose I'm the one getting slapped ;_;
So Diddy 55:45 or 50:50??
DDD???

Oh and whoops, edit, I forgot, you must all agreeand if you don't agree what do i do? ;_;
 

Kataefi

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I'd say FW as a spacing tool (not an attack) is amazing against ganon because he's so slow and lacks a projectile, so cannot punish the ending lag at all if she teleports far away.

He has no approaches from a long distance, cannot get into Zelda's zone hardly ever from this distance, is completely harassed by din's and FW is quicker than running away.

She's more vulnerable challenging him up close than from a longer distance and running away or FWing away gets her to that distance fast where she'll more than likely win the matchup if he's always coming to her. Simply, ganon approaches, is knocked away, ganon approaches again, is knocked away etc etc etc rinse, repeat, done! If he's close, run away, FW away, whatever, and do it all over again.

I'm only stating it as an option. It seems to be working for me ^^ The moment it consistently doesn't work is when I'll change my style around. We're all different players remember so it's nice to give a few options to someone who needs help and let them find out which advice is better rather than, do this, do this, do this =D

Erm... diddy is 55:45 (the diddy's are bordering on 60:40 Zelda but I think they underrate him sometimes). I'm saying 65:35 Zelda against D3 and 55:45 Zelda against TLink from my personal experience, though with Tlink I don't fight him enough to fully contribute.
 

GodAtHand

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Diddy is a definite 55-45 or greater, I honestly won't except any less. None of the Diddy players think it is even or in Diddy's favor, and the large majority of Zelda players don't either.

D3 I would say 60 - 40 Zelda,

Tink I would say 50 - 50, but I don't play good toon links often.

Shouldn't we do the other two (tink and ddd) like we did this one and get the other player boards involved?
 

Bandit

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Diddy is 55-45 (which seems general consensus) so I would put that on the books.

D3 seems a consensus of 60-40. Ankoku went to their boards looking for opinions and the thread pretty much died. Don't underestimate this match-up though. D3 can Bair camp all day on Zelda and we can't get through it unless we get under him. Even then, his Dair goes through our Usmash. Bair also cancels out Dins so you have to be tricky if you want to break his wall with it. Ultimately, I think his size does him in with our big hit boxes. You can keep him off the stage until you kill him fairly easily once you get him off. This is why Zelda should clearly have the advantage.

TL already did the Zelda match-up in the newer match-up thread. 60-40 unresolved in Zeldas favor which is how I see the match-up. I'd be happy with 55-45 or 60-40 because, if you think about it, the match is similar to Diddy. TL is going to have a momentum of spam and then has to regroup or else he'll get too close or Zelda will have fought through it and the momentum goes the other way. I have had no problems with TL's though they play me tough. I just think people tend to over estimate this match-up for TL because they have a hard time dealing with the wall of spam that he delivers. I practice against a ROB constantly (two actually) and I play a solid TL every weekend, so I have a lot of practice against spammy projectiles. If the projectiles could kill you, then this would be in his favor no doubt, but they lack any such power and are simply a nuisance.
 

Villi

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Agreed with the Tink. His projectiles are nothing compared to the likes of Falco and Diddy.

Sort of agreed about DDD, so I'll go with it. He's extremely difficult to get out of his shield though and that uptilt is a monster.

Diddy Kong I feel is even, but I'm out voted. Naryu's love really won't save you from Diddy -- don't kid yourself. What happens when you Naryu's a glide toss? You hit him with 11 damage and gain temporary control of a banana. What happens the next time? More often than not, you'll be punished while he stands there not throwing his banana. The only time it's useful is right after he uses his down b.

I have a good Diddy in my crew who places well and I can tell you he's difficult as hell to approach but even more difficult to defend against when he's controlling the bananas. I know how to use bananas/item projectiles and it's still difficult controlling them when he has combos out of his dash attack, and freakin' good aerials. His kill moves are often fresh by the time I'm at kill percent. They really have no reason not to be.
 

Kataefi

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I spotdodge thrown bananas instead, Spotdodge to nayru's or dsmash is amazing against diddy.
 

GodAtHand

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Why would you Nayru's when there is no banana flying at your face? That is what will get you punished. If you have good reflexes you shouldn't have to Nayru's when you think a banana will come, but when the banana is almost smacking you in the face.

lol at banana and face.
 

-Mars-

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I don't believe Zelda goes even with Diddy, I would easily put the matchup at 60:40 Diddy's favor. If Diddy mains are actually agreeing to even............then whatever.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Diddy v. zelda is very momentum and stage based. it tends to break even if you average things out. if you're losing a lot maybe you're picking the wrong stages? or have problems with momentum.
Agreed with the Tink. His projectiles are nothing compared to the likes of Falco and Diddy.
on the contrary. I find tink's projectiles much better than falcos or diddy's. Oh he can't camp with them like falco can, and he can't lay traps like diddy can, but he can use them effectively pretty much no matter where he is on the stage. they set up for follow ups, they interrupt you, they come out too fast to reflect if he's close, and his zair pokes just as well as any projectile and can't be reflected.

Zelda beats tink with the right spacing, but there's no way zelda can take the control of spacing away from tink. tink has so many tools for doing so. and even if you reflect his projectiles, you can't follow up on them like he can.

He completely destroys you in the air. his fair and bair beat out yours, his uair beats out your dair AND lasts long enough to beat out your spotdodge. His dair gets beatten out by your uair if you can space it properly and it occasionally beats out your usmash. timing is key there.

he can harass your recovery and force you to land on the stage where he can punish you easily with a usmash wich just destroys. In fact, he can hyphen smash you and kill you early anytime you are exposed.

to people who claim nayru's makes the matchup, it doesn't. his projectiles are pretty resistant to being used well against him, and if you get overzealous with nayru's you can eat usmash, or at least grab which will lead to uthrow and a lot of harassment.

tink plays almost nothing like diddy.

Tink stops you from squaring your feet. in other words, he prevents you from getting into a solid defensive position. he kills only slightly later than you do and will be doing damage quicker. Zair pokes and unreflectable (or at least dumb to reflect) projectiles prevent your greater range on the ground from being a huge issue. and his dominance of the skies remains.

ROBs projectile game is far less threatening than tinks against zelda. ROBs are all much easier to reflect and do more if reflected. and we can glide toss gyros. and ROBs are used completely differently. ROB camps with his, tink uses his up close to disrupt. being able to deal with rob does not make you able to deal with tink the same way unless that tink is an idiot.

Furthermore, we have one solid conterpick against him: mansion. he has several from which to choose to beat us. he bans this, we've got nothin. Now, granted, mansion is a major counterpick, but it's all we've got.

one of my sparring partners is a **** good tink. I can beat most of his charcters with zelda, but DAG yo tink is almsot impossible. I went all beast mode on him once and still only barely beat him. His sonic, which is better, gives me significantly less problems. and his other charcters less still. Tink is one of the hardest matchups I've ever had the misfortune to fight against with zelda. I just can't see what on earth gives us any sort of advantage.
 

Half-Split Soul

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The Ganon player also does a chain of side-Bs, & I don't know how to get out of them.
It's not like I can DI when I'm flat on the ground.
The only thing I found useful was mind gaming him so he would miss the side b.
Old topic, but whatever:

You can´t really do anything when Ganon hits once with his side-b. If he doesn´t panic and has good reflexes he can always get the next one. But that´s just in theory: I have yet to meet a Ganon able to get infinite side-b if you mix different forms of rising together.

About the matchup numbers:

Diddy: 55:45 Zelda´s advantage. Both have very good chances of winning, but Zelda has slightly easier time getting the momentum on her side.

DDD: 60:40 Zelda. DDD is so easy target to LKs and Uairs most of the time that you´re almost guaranteed to pull several of those off. He also can´t use his usual advantages against Zelda (except strenght). The thing that prevents this from being more of Zelda´s advantage is that if DDD gets just the right spacing, it´s very difficult for Zelda. In mid-range his Waddle Doos beat Din´s, his U-tilt stops aerial approaches and his F-tilt stops ground approaches. In that situation he can make the match even, but otherwise Zelda has the lead.

Tink: 55:45 or 60:40 Tink. His F- and U-smashes are fast and deadly and his projectiles are just pain in the *** if used right. He also has better aerial game and much more speed, so I think he has an advantage. Zelda does have more killing power, but hitting a good Tink with a killer is very hard. His recovery is also pretty versatile with Up-b and tether, so he isn´t easy to gimp or edgeguard.
 

Lord Yawgmoth

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Why would you Nayru's when there is no banana flying at your face? That is what will get you punished. If you have good reflexes you shouldn't have to Nayru's when you think a banana will come, but when the banana is almost smacking you in the face.

lol at banana and face.
haha, nayru's is good,
but I simply like grabbing it.

Banana getting thrown at you--> shorthop+airdodge grabs it. (probably away if he is chasing the banana)

Banana on ground-> shorthop+airdodge picks it up (in any direction)
shorthop+Fair/Bair/Nair picks it up.

Having a banana in hand is a really good position to be in.

I am not completely intimate with the matchup, so if there is too much pressure to one of the above then I can see alternates, but airdodging away should leave you less open than nayrus, and for bananas on the ground, mixing up airdodging/attacking should still give you alot of options.


I am not certain on the matchup percentage, just wanted to post ideas.
 

Bandit

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If you believe Pit is an even match-up, then you cannot list TLink as a disadvantage. Pit is a better spammer and his projectiles cause more problems than TLink, and they can effectively gimp you off the stage. In that match-up, you do without dair and naryu's because both are beaten or useless. Most of what Sonic said about TLink can be said about Pit too but it is an even match-up, and TLink is not as much of a threat as Pit.

TLink's recovery can be dins'ed which pops him up near the edge and you can follow up with an aerial or smash depending on how close he is. Bombs get thrown back. Arrows are slow. Boomerang is slow. He has 3 projectiles so he can follow one up with another, but none of them are moving quickly and you should see them coming.

If you want to kill TLink then dsmash is your best friend. Save it and it will kick him beyond recovery (or just outright kill him).

I will go ahead and throw out this disclaimer. I rarely use naryu's. Only when it is very obvious a projectile is coming, and I know the projectile has a good chance of hitting my opponent. Powershielding works wonders and dins cancels a bunch of projectiles, so I don't see much of a reason to be using naryu's, but I get the impression a lot of people rely on this move in a projectile match. (The same can be said on a this community's reliance on Luigi's Mansion. It has been banned at every tournament in my area and will probably continued to be banned even at Meta-free tourneys, so I have been using much different style counterpicks.)
 

Kataefi

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TLink should have a big problem racking damage against Zelda. The only thing he has are projectiles. He cannot bair wall of pain, he cannot approach from the air. His smashes are tiny in range compared to Zelda's. His light, so fresh DSmash from edge sends him at that awkward angle yet again where he'll be forced to throw bombs to survive and damage himself, his recovery asks for a din's as well.

He can only bait you with a bomb in his hand and wait for you to use laggy nayru's until you make the mistake. If Zelda lags, she'll get punished, otherwise she has the tools and almost twice his range to beat him I reckon.

I don't know stuff on the contrary however. Can Tlink really limit Zelda? The difference to Pit is that TLink has no trouble killing. But his range simply negates that if Zelda's spacing really well.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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pit's range is not tiny compared to zelda's. that's a fallacy
If you believe Pit is an even match-up, then you cannot list TLink as a disadvantage.
pit and tink use their projectiles entirely differently. Pit cannot do what tink can and vice versa.

tink's strategies just work better against zelda than pit's do.
 

Bandit

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So if a Zelda is spacing properly, Tink is should not be able to kill her. (spoken in an absolute for a purpose).

I only say that because the question then becomes can Tink get inside of Zelda in order to hit her? My Dtilt says no. I agree if he gets you off stage and you are forced to land on the stage that you are open to a killing blow, but that is true with just about any character on the cast. Zelda has too many options as a defensive character to allow Tink inside. His projectiles knock you away from him, so it would take you being over aggressive and leaving yourself open to allow him to get the kill.

This is a tough match because anyone who throws that much at you will be a hassle, but it is not out of Zelda's favor.
 

Half-Split Soul

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Tink may not have any absolutely and completely relyable ways to get inside Zelda's area, but he has some possibilities. One example: Zelda is at high percents on the ground. Tink takes a bomb, shorthops and shoots an arrow. He the doublejumps, lets go off the bomb, Zairs and regraps the bomb, throwing it immediately. Then he finishes of with F-smash. The result: Zelda either has practicaly no shield left or is dead. Not foolproof or too easy (although not too hard either), but Tink certainly has ways to get inside Zelda.
 

Kataefi

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He definitely has options! I'm only saying 55:45 Zelda which is only just her advantage. I just think a TLink needs to work much harder with more mindgames to kill Zelda than vice versa, considering that against her his solid bair wop approach disappears, his projectile can be reflected, his smashes are completely outanged, his FSmash is DIable after the first hit, his prone to the Dtilt lock to Utilt (KOs around 100%) and the fact that Dtilt clashes with his moves if it doesn't outrange his.

EDIT:: forgot to mention Zelda's DSmash is killer at forcing him to take damage with bombs (to recover if he doesn't make the ledge), plus Zelda's chance to din's during his recovery and edgehog.

Zelda retains her options against TLink whereas TLink actually loses some of his solid options except of course baiting with a bomb and throwing projectiles left right and centre to open up a hole in Zelda's defence and charge right in. If he didn't have a good projectile and baiting game he'd be *****!
 

Half-Split Soul

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I'm pretty much in the same lines as you are, only that I think Tink's speed and versatility give him the slight advantage. His F-smash also isn't actually easy to smash DI.

And to Zelda's downsmash: I won't deny it.s great in the edge, but good Tink won't be in position near the edge to be D-smashed too often. Tink also has his own D-smash glitch in the edge, but that's not usable enough to take into consideration.
 

RoyalBlood

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For Toon Link's F-smash hold up, it's certainly easier than Zelda's F-smash or maybe equal who knows
For D-smash is hold right/left? also kind of easy and good UNLESS as you mentioned are at the edge

So have you people agreed yet?
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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so what if tink doesn't have any single strategy that gets inside zelda 100% of the time? he has enough options that have good success rates that he WILL be getting in often enough for it to matter. and once he does, which he will, explain how exactly zelda has any possibility to return the favour?

Tink's offensive game is good enough to break zelda's defensive game fairly often, but zelda's offensive game does little to nothing against a defensive tink. aerially it's a no brainer. off the stage tink is still the winner.

I don't understand how tink can have the advantage with projectiles, the advantage while on the defensive, the advantage while airborne, the advantage off the edge, and only a slight disadvanatge when approaching at best and we say that zelda has the advantage overall.

Tink wins in most aspects of the matchup. Zelda has the advantage when tink is the one forced to approach IF she can maintain a precise spacing, which tink has multiple tools to prevent from happening. Honestly, so many tinks are noobs, but the ones that know what they are doing are just humongous pains for zelda. We BARELY outrange him on the ground and are VERY outranged in the air. we don't have many advantages. he does. ahis projectiles are hard to punish even if reflected and if they work like he wants it makes us vulnerable for follow up. it's very tough.
 

-Mars-

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I'm pretty much in the same lines as you are, only that I think Tink's speed and versatility give him the slight advantage. His F-smash also isn't actually easy to smash DI.

And to Zelda's downsmash: I won't deny it.s great in the edge, but good Tink won't be in position near the edge to be D-smashed too often. Tink also has his own D-smash glitch in the edge, but that's not usable enough to take into consideration.
You tap up and you get out of the second hit every time. If you ever get hit by the second hit of Toon Links fsmash......you fail at DI.
 

Kaffei

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TLink should have a big problem racking damage against Zelda. The only thing he has are projectiles. He cannot bair wall of pain, he cannot approach from the air. His smashes are tiny in range compared to Zelda's. His light, so fresh DSmash from edge sends him at that awkward angle yet again where he'll be forced to throw bombs to survive and damage himself, his recovery asks for a din's as well.

He can only bait you with a bomb in his hand and wait for you to use laggy nayru's until you make the mistake. If Zelda lags, she'll get punished, otherwise she has the tools and almost twice his range to beat him I reckon.

I don't know stuff on the contrary however. Can Tlink really limit Zelda? The difference to Pit is that TLink has no trouble killing. But his range simply negates that if Zelda's spacing really well.
I think TLink DOES have a chance against Zelda.

The recent metagame of TL includes the use of his zair. TL does an Air Dodge & follows up with a zair, because there is almost no lag. If Zelda shields the zair, as soon as TL lands, he can just grab her.

TL has pretty good DI, so an experienced TL can DI out of Zelda's Fsmash.

I think it's pretty even, but that's just me.

You can see the tech here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo0pjgEjP-A
Go to 39 seconds.

Here's another http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHt0qdXpLvU
4:45, Zelda is harassed by his zair; dunno if the Zelda just sucked or not. Kind of hard to tell since the clip is so short.
 

-Mars-

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Spotdodge the zair and immediately dsmash or dtilt. That pretty much prevents any follow ups and really puts you in no risk. If you want to just sit in your shield like an idiot then of course his zair can be dangerous.
 

Kaffei

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Spotdodge the zair and immediately dsmash or dtilt. That pretty much prevents any follow ups and really puts you in no risk. If you want to just sit in your shield like an idiot then of course his zair can be dangerous.
That's what I was thinking; using a d-smash as a counter.
Seems like a very good solution, but the only thing I'm scared of if it reaches TL or not. X_X

Would TL be close enough, or does that factor depend on how both players are spaced?
 

-Mars-

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That's what I was thinking; using a d-smash as a counter.
Seems like a very good solution, but the only thing I'm scared of if it reaches TL or not. X_X

Would TL be close enough, or does that factor depend on how both players are spaced?
Oh this isn't to hit him, just to prevent him from getting inside. This just keeps you from falling prey to his zair combos. it's not really going to hit him unless he blindly attempts to follow up even if he sees that you didn't shield.
 

Kaffei

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Oh this isn't to hit him, just to prevent him from getting inside. This just keeps you from falling prey to his zair combos. it's not really going to hit him unless he blindly attempts to follow up even if he sees that you didn't shield.
Oh I see what you mean. Cool. ;o

But what if he jumps back & throws a boomerang or something.. Another spotdodge? Or can a Dsmash ping with it?

The zair seems to give a lot of options..
How would Zelda fare against (2:17~2:5x) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHt0qdXpLvU
 

-Mars-

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Believe it or not.........Dins Fire might be your answer here. He really shouldn't be having his way with you with his zair crap like with the DDD you saw in that video. Just harass him as he retreats and I guarantee he'll think twice before attempting any sort of grab or projectile follow-up. That's the same reason why Links zair is good but not great.......it leaves you open.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Spotdodge the zair and immediately dsmash or dtilt. That pretty much prevents any follow ups and really puts you in no risk. If you want to just sit in your shield like an idiot then of course his zair can be dangerous.
toon link could just tether grab you, or hit you with a projectile if you dsmash OR dtilt OoS since only an idiot tink would be in range of one of those moves after zairing.

and dsmash, while it come out fast, has enough cooldown to punish.
 

-Mars-

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toon link could just tether grab you, or hit you with a projectile if you dsmash OR dtilt OoS since only an idiot tink would be in range of one of those moves after zairing.

and dsmash, while it come out fast, has enough cooldown to punish.
Which is why I would do it only if they were attempting to follow up. Also, i'm not using dtilt or dsmash OoS unless you mean Out of Spotdodge?

So really if you spotdodge the zair, he retreats and neither of you are punished. Dsmash would only be used to repel a follow-up.
 

RoyalBlood

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Corrected some misformat ^-^
Added match numbers :)
I should start posting the next match-up ;o

Psst....Pit's new image is <3
 

Kaffei

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Believe it or not.........Dins Fire might be your answer here. He really shouldn't be having his way with you with his zair crap like with the DDD you saw in that video. Just harass him as he retreats and I guarantee he'll think twice before attempting any sort of grab or projectile follow-up. That's the same reason why Links zair is good but not great.......it leaves you open.
Hmm.....I'll try Din's as a solution. I can't do it this week, so if anyone can do it soon & pass me the results that would be nice.

Wouldn't TL's Arrow Cancel out-speed Din's? o-o
 
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