Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[GodAtHand]

I'm in the same boat as Kataefi in this matchup. Confused and at a loss for what to do against him...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I personally like sheik against him. makes edgehogging and approaching much easier. That having been said, only the last hit of nair is electrical so all the other hits SHOULD knock off pikimin.

his grab range is frustrating, but I heard somewhere that he's the only character that doesn't get superarmour while grabbing due to the unique mechanics of his grab. if that's true, maybe all it'll take is a bit more agression because we certainly have the range to hit him and interupt his grabs.

My best friend Pyrogamer uses olimar quite a bit. I wouldn't call him pro with him, but he's good. I still normally win with Zelda. All it takes is patience and agression at the same time. Din's has longer range than pikmin toss, but if you two spend the whole match that far apart, he's probably going to win the damage war. no. you have to get closer. get close enough that it's dangerous for him to toss pikmin, but stay out of his grab range and then just spend a good deal of time feinting and attempting to poke. you've gotta take risks to try to draw an attack. once you FIND an opening, you HAVE to exploit it. once you do olimar has a hard time regaining his momentum. be vicious once you get a hold of him. if he's above you he has no defenses. your uair, usmash and utilt are uncounterable by him. They are safe and frigtening. he's floaty too. that makes him one of the easier targets for your uair which kills him at very low damages. even if he protects from it with Down+B superarmour it's a lot of free damage.

and also Downsmash kills him. He can't outspeed it if you're close enough to use it. you've gotta be agressive enough to get yourself in that position, but it is pretty much a guarunteed kill at modest damages because of what it does to his recovery options. he might be able to toss purples back at you, but those are easy enough to avoid with a release->regrab or a release->farore's-> regrab.

oh and another plus is that olimar's ability to approach you is HORRID. so if you get a 1 stock lead at any time the advantage immediately shifts to your favour. that prevents the matchup from being that bad.

seriously though. he's frustrating to get inside. I win against Pyro because I'm better than him and this is probably a disadvantaged matchup for zelda. she has to play a bit differently and that causes a lot of problems for some people. I think that if zelda knows the matchup well enough that this is not really that bad. I'd put him about on par with peach as far as difficulty (I'd put peach 60:40) I personally find peach harder but I'm aware that seems to be an individual thing so maybe 65:45 olimar but no higher in my eyes.

70:30 or more suggests that the matchup is so awful that you need to counterpick it to win. and olimar is not that bad.

so my final ruling I guess is 60:40 olimar. maybe 65:35 and as for stages, his pikmin go through mansion pillars fine, and it limits your aproaching options. it also destroys his KO potential though, so the stage is still not a bad option if you are really comfortable there. Battlefield lets you ACTUALLY LAND LIGHTNING KICK but is otherwise not exceptional. the platforms normally don't stop his pikmin so that's nothing huge.

Orpheon has an ungrabable ledge and is small for him to run away. I think it's not a bad stage.

an olimar main would be the best help here though. we need some second opinions.

 

[DanGR]

fyi, we agreed on the matchup ratio of 75-25. It wasn't solely my idea.

From what has been said so far, it looks like you guys know what generally goes on in the matchup, though it seems the Olimar opponents you're playing don't camp and/or pivotgrab enough. Being VERY campy and defensive is a relatively new and difficult game plan for new Olimar players to get used to. It's what stretches a 65-35 matchup to 70-30 or 75-25 at the highest levels of play.

For StH's sake, (Unless you guys ask about something) I'll leave it at that. lol

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Olimar is one of my mains, so I know something about him.

About Olimar's grab: it's true that he doesn't get the super armor kind of thing in his throw. His throw can also be stopped by hitting the pikmin hard enough. On the other hand though, Oli's throw is also unique in that it isn't actually in contact with him. If you hit Oli when he has started his throwing animation, the throw continues on its own and Oli can do whatever he wants.

Sonic is right about Oli's approaches, they are horrible against Zelda. His aerials are too short, as well as his ground attacks other than throw and F-smash. If Zelda gets a stock lead she has temporal advantage, but not long. Oli can cause damage so fast that if Zelda isn't careful, soon Oli has to success in approach only once to kill her and make the situation even.

While it's true that Olimar is floaty, he isn't light- but actually middleweight. Due to this he often flies too far for Zelda to followup with attacks, but close enough to for him to recover around middle percents. He's also hard to keep in the air for long because he can use FF combined with his okay aerial movement and insane amount of super armor in his down-b.

Mansion isn't to bad for Oli: it prevents upward KOs, but he still has D- and F-smashes and Fairs (they can kill with red pikmin). Frigate Orpheon is just horrible for him when it's in the original form: he can't recover fron right at all and is easy to edgehog from left. Jungle Japes is bad for both.

 

[asob4]

Olimar is one of my mains, so I know something about him.

About Olimar's grab: it's true that he doesn't get the super armor kind of thing in his throw. His throw can also be stopped by hitting the pikmin hard enough. On the other hand though, Oli's throw is also unique in that it isn't actually in contact with him. If you hit Oli when he has started his throwing animation, the throw continues on its own and Oli can do whatever he wants.

Sonic is right about Oli's approaches, they are horrible against Zelda. His aerials are too short, as well as his ground attacks other than throw and F-smash. If Zelda gets a stock lead she has temporal advantage, but not long. Oli can cause damage so fast that if Zelda isn't careful, soon Oli has to success in approach only once to kill her and make the situation even.

While it's true that Olimar is floaty, he isn't light- but actually middleweight. Due to this he often flies too far for Zelda to followup with attacks, but close enough to for him to recover around middle percents. He's also hard to keep in the air for long because he can use FF combined with his okay aerial movement and insane amount of super armor in his down-b.

Mansion isn't to bad for Oli: it prevents upward KOs, but he still has D- and F-smashes and Fairs (they can kill with red pikmin). Frigate Orpheon is just horrible for him when it's in the original form: he can't recover fron right at all and is easy to edgehog from left. Jungle Japes is bad for both.

Oli doesn't have to approach vs zelda though so that's out of the question
even if he does, pikmin toss has got to be one of the best approaches in the game.
we can also WAC an attack to get close if we have to

zelda has trouble killing oli because a smart one will be able to see the predictable aerial and WAC and just space the smashes with grabs and fsmashes

mansion is AMAZING for olimar and frigate isn't bad. we just camp the side with the ledge til it flips then we can take control of the middle under the platform.
all the stages that were bad for oli are slowly becoming good for him

our killers for the most part are: usmash, dsmash, fair, bair, dair, upb, fsmash

Edit: sheik's your best bet against a smart oli

 

[RoyalBlood]

I also play may olimars >_> <_< 60:40 Olimar seems right 65:35 if you want
Just like Peach Bomber, pikmin pass through shield so you can alternate with Nayru's <-->Shield
Reflecting White Pikmin is the best and LK are very useful in this match-up ( I find them more critically important in here) Din's Fire can disrupt his grabs as does jab and f-tilt i think (when Olimar send the pikmin to grab)
A smart Zelda can sweetspot Oli very well >_> <_< >.> <.< ...
Falling Fair and/or raising Fair (as you all may say >_>) is good against Oli when he's close to the edge.

 

[DanGR]

Is that a sarcastic post, RoyalBlood?

 

[RoyalBlood]

Is that a sarcastic post, RoyalBlood?

No...

No really, just some parts >_>

 

[Villi]

Royal, rising means you execute your aerial as soon as you leave the ground. You can't hit Oli with rising LKs, only falling unless he's in the air. I agree it's not impossible to lightning kick him, but it's too difficult to be a crucial strategy.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Oli doesn't have to approach vs zelda though so that's out of the question
even if he does, pikmin toss has got to be one of the best approaches in the game.
we can also WAC an attack to get close if we have to

Pikmin toss is awesome approach with purple pikmins and as damage dealing approach, but as an way to get killer in it´s not good...

zelda has trouble killing oli because a smart one will be able to see the predictable aerial and WAC and just space the smashes with grabs and fsmashes

This is big problem for Zelda since Oli is so well protected against Zelda´s sweetspots thanks to his super armor and small size. On the other hand though, if Zelda gets ground attacks in she´ll kill Oli easier than she´ll many other chars. She may have enough strenght but not enough changes to use it.

mansion is AMAZING for olimar and frigate isn't bad. we just camp the side with the ledge til it flips then we can take control of the middle under the platform.

I know the second form (with moving plattforms in the sides) isn´t bad. Those plattforms can actually help Oli survive a lot longer. I meant the first form where the right side can´t be tethered. That´s certainly dangerous for Oli if Zelda hits with D-smash.

Interesting CP could also be Delfino plaza. In watery parts Oli loses most of his Pikmins if he gets into water.Changing stage also blocks his camping to some extent and may even cause some very easy KOs for Zelda if she can edgehog when the moving plattform starts rising.

 

[-Mars-]

Personally I think this is her worst matchup, honestly i'd rather face a G&W.

I think once you finally get inside, you fair well aginst Olimar, but it's just so hard to get there. I remember M2K saying a campy Olimar can't be beaten by any character including MK.............I believe it.

We all know Zelda doesn't have the best approach game in the world. Olimar has the best camping game in the entire game. He's literally a walking fortress. His combination of anti-aerial options, pikmin throws, and pivot grabs make his defensive startegy extremely tough to get around.

I never play as Zelda in this matchup due to all of the bad experiences as Zelda.

I know that Oli has a couple **** combos he can lay on you at the beginning of every stock if he lands a grab. Try to avoid the early stock grab at every cost. That's pretty much all I have in this matchup since I always go Sheik.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Royal, rising means you execute your aerial as soon as you leave the ground. You can't hit Oli with rising LKs, only falling unless he's in the air. I agree it's not impossible to lightning kick him, but it's too difficult to be a crucial strategy.

Not Grounded anyway, but poor general priority on his part combined with better range on Zelda's part means that it's great for aerial follow-ups, granted getting Oli in the air is an issue.

As for using grounded ones, it's a range game. I've gotta confess ignorance in regards to his safe ground moves, I doubt d-smash is safe on block, what about f-smash, and how do his tilts do as far as range is concerned?


Because basically the need to do it as a rising tech eliminates the extra effective range you can get by approaching a bit in the air then DIing back. We're just dealing with the lightning kick's basic range in this match-up as an approach.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I know that most of my abuse against olimar happens when he misses a DSmash or a Dsmash gets blocked. I think it's got the most cooldown.

 

[RoyalBlood]

Both Olimar's D-smash and U-smash are straight lines unlike other characters (Ike , Zelda, ZSS, etc) So he's vulnerable while the pikmin are returning so if he does that of you trick him into doing that like : run run run Zelda to the face on Olimar, then Olimar says lolololol D-smash then Zelda woot! *jumps* Fast falling LK lololol Olimar *dead* >_>_<_<

 

[Villi]

Sheik has a sort-of approach against Olimar with her fast falled nair into jab. Just cuz Oli can't seem to grab her out of it. I wonder if Zelda might have a similar approach with auto-canceled dair into buffered dtilt. Would any Zeldas or Olis be willing to play Oli and try to shield grab me so I can test out this approach?

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik can do that because her jab comes out on frame 2, I seriously doubt dtilt is a faster frame than his grab.

 

[DanGR]

It doesn't work with Zelda.

 

[Villi]

Sheik's nair tends to have a bit of landing lag probably slightly more than her landing IASA frames. It's not necessarily there, but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way in my experience.

I'm not saying it for sure works, which is why I want to test it for confirmation. Mars get on aim plz :3

Edit: Perfectly executed (with negligible difficulty), Zelda buffers into dtilt in exactly 5 frames as soon as she touches the ground. After Zelda's dair connection, it's just a matter of fastfalling into a buffered dtilt. Dair has OK priority against pikminz, also she has the option of crossing up with it. Really I don't use Zelda against Oli except to kill. He's the one char I'll probably always counterpick Peach for. But for curiousity...

Edit2: Screw it. Dtilt isn't even shield safe from the front anyways.

 

[Villi]

Double post: Apologies to Royal -- Oli can be hit with rising bairs, though it requires more precise aim.

Edit: It seems like the only characters who are truly safe in neutral position from a rising bair are Pikachu and Meta Knight. Squirtle and Oli are more difficult than the rest but it's possible.

 

[Bandit]

robs nair and dair both go through Usmash. but we'll talk on him more once it's his turn.

I know we are talking Olimar now, but I just wanted to address this...
I tested it and USmash won against both of them. The only time it ever lost is if the hit frames from the USmash were not out.

As far as Olimar vs Zelda goes, I think it is an uphill battle. Nair to send his pikmin flying that he throws at you. His Uair beats our Dair; he might be the best ledge camper in the game; NL will send pikmin back at him, but you can't just sit there doing that over and over. You can Dtilt right before he grabs you and he will trip when he pulls you in. It is the same kind of thing you would be doing with sheik and her jab, but I don't find it as effective. It is just a difficult match-up from what I have found.

Remember this...
Blue Pikmin are for throwing (back throw is strongest)
White damage rack incredibly well and have best throw range
Yellow Pikmin have a good Uthrow
Red Pikmin I am not that sure of for throws.
Purple is the strongest attack pikmin.

 

[Kaffei]

Idk about you guys, but Zelda's spot dodge seems crucial against this match up.

 

[asob4]

Idk about you guys, but Zelda's spot dodge seems crucial against this match up.

oli's grab lasts through spot dodge :/

 

[Bandit]

Getting damaged racked by pikmin is not bad because Nair will take care of them, but if you spot dodge the pikmin, it leaves you open for grabs. Spot dodging the grabs takes some good anticipation.

^^There ya go

 

[asob4]

you better hope we don't see your nair coming to rid of the pikmin otherwise you're gonna get grabbed/fsmashed
it's how we do :D

 

[Kaffei]

oli's grab lasts through spot dodge :/

Orly? O_O''

Well, I said that because I was playing against an Olimar. He forced me to approach using his pikmin, & then he would grab. He got very predictable after, & I easily spot dodged his grabs & Dsmashed.



-.-?wad

 

[TigerWoods]

This is probably obvious but it hasn't been said.

Throw him off stage and keep him there. Gimp his upB =D

 

[Villi]

It's never been a problem for me reacting with nair. You can count on Olimar noticing how you get rid of his Pikmin. All I gotta do is press a couple of buttons and keep my eye on you or not even do it and dtilt/fsmash.

 

[Kaffei]

This is probably obvious but it hasn't been said.

Throw him off stage and keep him there. Gimp his upB =D

Never tried that. D:

 

[Kaffei]

Getting damaged racked by pikmin is not bad because Nair will take care of them, but if you spot dodge the pikmin, it leaves you open for grabs. Spot dodging the grabs takes some good anticipation.

^^There ya go

Oh, most definitely; I don't spot dodge the pikmin.

 

[Bandit]

I figured you meant the grabs, but I thought I would throw out the word of caution anyway.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

oli's grab lasts through spot dodge :/

To be more specific: Oli´s grab´s tip aka the place where Pikmin stops before coming back lasts through spotdodge. If Zelda spotdodges close enough for Pikmin to go past her she´ll be fine and in perfect place to punish. Purple pikmins are so slow that their grab can´t be spotdodged though. Blue pikmin´s grab doesn´t hit opponent who´s standing right in front of Olimar at all.


I did some testing, so here´s some info for you (some is more useful than the rest):

Olimar kills Zelda in the middle of FD when she uses basic DI around these percentages:

U-throw (purple pikmin): 104 %
(next best was blue at 126 %)​

B-throw (blue pikmin): 130 %

F-throw (blue pikmin): 152 %

Purple pikmins do around 6 % when thrown. If latched for the full time every white pikmin does 54 % of damage and every other colored 18 %.

Olimar can trade hits with Zelda´s F-smash with his F-tilt, taking only minimal damage himself. From his smashes U-smash has the least cooldown lag, while his D-smash has the most (I´m not totally completely 100 % sure about this since the lag changes with different pikmin and so on, but that´s the general idea).

Zelda can kill Olimar in the middle of FD with her Bair around 70 % and with her Fair around 76 %. Her Uair starts killing Olimar around 70 %. Zelda´s F-smash also hits yellow pikmin away if they are latched onto her.


Most of that info is pretty useles, but I decided to post it anyway.

 

[Bandit]

Thanks for the info. I always like to keep a general idea of kill percentages in my head, so I have an idea of what my opponent may be trying to set up or maybe get an opening to steal an early kill.

 

[DanGR]

Purple upsmash kills Zelda at around 80-ish.

 

[RoyalBlood]

So so? Is this finished????

Personally i see it as 60:40 Olimar but it'sa up to you guys ;3

 

[JigglyZelda003]

im agreeing at 60:40 Olimar

 

[asob4]

i'm biased
and never had any kind of problem with a zelda that didn't use sheik
so 65-35

 

[Kataefi]

I'll agree to 65:35, maybe 60:40 if Zelda's really good at reflecting and getting in his zone. DSmash and Nayru's (at times) are her saving graces.

Alternatively, down b ^^ she shouldn't have a problem

 

[Mocha19]

From what I've experienced, Olimar's a pain in the ***.. I've played a lot with my roomate who was an Olimar main back when we played.

I believe our biggest problem is that insane grab range he has. If Olimar is conservative, he'll throw some pikmin at the Zelda to distract her and while she's trying to avoid damage, he has a chance to dash grab. Sometimes it's best to ignore the damage and try to catch him off guard while he's throwing, but if he's smart, he'll wait for it and just grab her. It can definitely be a very bad situation due to his superior spacing on his grab.

Also what my roomate liked to do was use Olimar's Uair whenever I was trying to recover from above him. And I'm sure we all know that Zelda doesn't have many options for getting to the ground safely.

If he had a red or purple pikmin up in his line, he would save either one specifically for an Usmash when I was ready to die. And with regular DI, Zelda dies relatively early. That Usmash has little ending lag as well, so it's hard to punish. A Nayru's out of shield works very well when done fast enough though, however shield stun from a purple one is too strong to do this.

Zelda's ability to kill him fast because of his light weight is a definite plus here and definitely should be taken advantage of if ever possible. Lightning kicks kill him around the mid 70's range. Gimping works well when he's off the stage. Dsmash can work well into putting him in that position. Definitely keep him guessing.

Definitely a tough matchup when faced with a good Olimar that knows what he's doing. I'd say make it around 60:40 in Olimar's favor. No lower than 65:35 if you can push it further. We've got quite a few Olimars here in Louisiana, so I got some experience. I got used to them and won most of the time.

Hope my input helped a little, but it looks like it's about to be done anyway.. lol =P

 

[RoyalBlood]

Oh noez ^__^ Any input is appreciated =)
Jungle Japes seems wonderful in this match right?

 

[Villi]

How about Frigate Orpheon or Delphino.