Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[MorphedChaos]

Well, Co18 is only the best D3 in canada, and I think only Wifi. Dunno. I could try fighting you, but I personally am not as good as Co18 T.T.

I just thought of another bad D3 stage, Luigi's mansion, if you know what your doing, at least.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

Honestly, I believe I can take on a DeDeDe much better than I am.

It is that good of a matchup.


1) He is a HUGE target. You can punish any and all lag with a sweetspotted Fair/Bair. 21% free damage? Yes please!
2) She cannot be chaingrabbed, tech-chased, but not chaingrabbed.
3) Farore's Wind is bad. DeDeDe's Up-B is Horrible.
4) She is lighter than him, but he definitely has to work alot harder for the kill......


Also I would not personally Counterpick Norfair against DeDeDe, I think the vast difference in Projectiles are more pronounced on a longer stage.

My favorite Zelda stage is probably Luigi's Mansion,
so I would probably counterpick that against him. but really. its your choice.

 

[MorphedChaos]

If friend finder was up, I'd play some of you Zeldas in brawl, would help me in fighting a good zelda, and maybe get you some hard data you need?

And You guys forget about the randomness of the Waddle dees, if a gordo hits you, you die at 60%, Waddle doos do about 32% damage and let me get a free Fsmash in, and normal Dees can sometimes attack you, its overall a great move. And remember, onec your off the stage, your at the D3's mercy due to your bad recovery, as there are 3 spots you'll teleport.
1. The ledge
2. The stage
3. Above the stage
Which is very predictable and will most likely get you punished/edgeguarded. Renenber, D3 isn't like other heavies, hes much more powerful.

 

[Oh Snap]

I'll face you if you're on ^______^

 

[Villi]

And You guys forget about the randomness of the Waddle dees, if a gordo hits you, you die at 60%, Waddle doos do about 32% damage and let me get a free Fsmash in,.

Oh yeah... DON'T GET HIT BY WADDLE DOOS. It's that simple. I know some DDDs like to hover around them waiting for them to strike so that they can land an Fsmash. Just knock them off screen with whatever move is safest at the time at your earliest convenience. If you do get hit by a waddle doo, you can still smash DI out of them fairly quickly. Toggle between up and away and tap your c-stick away too. It'll get you away from an Fsmash if he reacts to you getting hit first and saves you some % I've been able to get out as soon as 5% is dealt without the c-stick.

 

[-Mars-]

If friend finder was up, I'd play some of you Zeldas in brawl, would help me in fighting a good zelda, and maybe get you some hard data you need?

And You guys forget about the randomness of the Waddle dees, if a gordo hits you, you die at 60%, Waddle doos do about 32% damage and let me get a free Fsmash in, and normal Dees can sometimes attack you, its overall a great move. And remember, onec your off the stage, your at the D3's mercy due to your bad recovery, as there are 3 spots you'll teleport.
1. The ledge
2. The stage
3. Above the stage
Which is very predictable and will most likely get you punished/edgeguarded. Renenber, D3 isn't like other heavies, hes much more powerful.

Unless i'm mistaken , those are the only three options any character in this game has. The ledge, the stage, or above the stage.

Sure, Farore's is not a terrific recovery, this is probably the only area in which DDD has the advantage....off stage gimps. Zelda owns him on the stage however so as long as you pick a decent sized stage and stay somewhat in the middle you should be fine.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If friend finder was up, I'd play some of you Zeldas in brawl, would help me in fighting a good zelda, and maybe get you some hard data you need?

And You guys forget about the randomness of the Waddle dees, if a gordo hits you, you die at 60%, Waddle doos do about 32% damage and let me get a free Fsmash in, and normal Dees can sometimes attack you, its overall a great move. And remember, onec your off the stage, your at the D3's mercy due to your bad recovery, as there are 3 spots you'll teleport.
1. The ledge
2. The stage
3. Above the stage
Which is very predictable and will most likely get you punished/edgeguarded. Renenber, D3 isn't like other heavies, hes much more powerful.

okay waddle doos are not at all hard to avoid... and gordos don't even average hitting once per match... and even so... they are reflectable.... waddle doos don not beam right away, and give a warning before they start. If you atre taking passive damage from minions in this matchup... then you need to rethink your ability to brawl.

as for Farores... 3 options... yes... that's a lot... and, as marsulas said... that's all ANYONE has.

the point is: DDD has no idea which one we'll reapear at, and he really lacks the speed to chase us down if he's wrong... which he probably will be. since he has only a 1/3 shot to begin with, and we have chances to change our mind without him knowing.

 

[Villi]

Unless i'm mistaken , those are the only three options any character in this game has. The ledge, the stage, or above the stage.

There's also through a Delphino type platform, recovering onto a platform like the one's on BF, and going under the stage. Not often the best options. PS, Zelda can go under Smashville. (<- reason for posting) Don't die trying it in a real match. xD

 

[-Mars-]

There's also through a Delphino type platform, recovering onto a platform like the one's on BF, and going under the stage. Not often the best options. PS, Zelda can go under Smashville. (<- reason for posting) Don't die trying it in a real match. xD

-10 Charsss

 

[Villi]

You mean go under smashville and get to the other side safe?

Yeah. Do a sideways ledge release so you don't fast fall and the rest is just aiming right.

 

[-Mars-]

Yeah. Do a sideways ledge release so you don't fast fall and the rest is just aiming right.

This would have no practical uses in a real match i'm assuming but it's still pretty interesting to know. I might try this in some friendlies sometime and surprise everyone

 

[MorphedChaos]

After fighting Oh Snap, I'm going to say its a 55-45 now in zelda's favor, I had more skill then her, but I can see why Zelda can be hard, Neutral B and that Usmash hurt.

 

[Oh Snap]

Him.

LOL xD

 

[Agent Snop]

lmao , like the images about marth.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Yeah, you can't deny the pictures you guys put up, they are just too good, too good! Love the D3 one.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

@ Morphed Chaos
I don't know how good Oh Snap is... so I don't know if I could provide more of a challenge or not... but if you think that Zelda only has a 55:45 advantage on DDD I can't help but think that you still are too green with the matchup.

 

[Oh Snap]

I believe it's 60;40 zelda.

too many stupid dash attacks and predictible FW's by me

Waddles are a pain in the *** lmao.

 

[RoyalBlood]

So...umm....final veredict??
;3

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

there isn't one yet. I'd say looking right now it seems to be 65:35 based on what people seems to think, but there isn't enough of a consenseus for me to be happy with that yet.

best stages seem to be
#1 Luigi's mansion
#2 Battlefield
#3 Smashville
#4 Norfair

 

[RoyalBlood]

there isn't one yet. I'd say looking right now it seems to be 65:35 based on what people seems to think, but there isn't enough of a consenseus for me to be happy with that yet.

best stages seem to be
#1 Luigi's mansion
#2 Battlefield
#3 Smashville
#4 Norfair

Oh Ok Norfair seems like King Dedede worst stage while Smashville is considered his best (low ceiling, high power moves, can go under the stage and harass people under the moving platform)
Thanks I'll be waiting

 

[MorphedChaos]

Eh, 60:40 seems right I suppose, I need to WoP more, but Zelda gets KO'ed so easily its not even funny, once your off the stage, your at D3's mercy, and since a Bair kills you at around 100% in the air... eh. Nwo to do the grab release Utilt combo, since I can get my grabs off well, and every grab I get is 20% damage.

 

[Ztarfish]

Zelda really isn't that hard. I don't believe she has any advantage in this matchup. I'd say Even. Really the only thing Zelda has is that her aerials actually work in this matchup, meaning if she doesn't spam them then she might kill D3 off at 80%, which is pretty amazing.

However, D3 can beat Zelda's 'defensive game' very easily. Zelda's defensive game relies mostly on range, in which Dedede can beat out Zelda by a fair amount. Ftilt and Dtilt have more range than a good chunk of her moves (Ftilt having more than all of them), and his grab range can really harass Zelda.

D3 can also Shieldgrab all of Zelda's ground moves, except Dtilt I think. Usmash, just hold shield until it's over, then grab. Fsmash, spotdodge it, then grab. Dsmash, grab right after she hit's your shield. The knockback on dsmash should be enough to knock you back far, but if you're quick, you should grab her before that happens. Ftilt same deal, or you can spotdodge it, it's pretty easy to see coming. If you shield Utilt, I believe it has a fair amount of shield pushback, but it lasts so long you can run up and grab with no consequence.

Whats iffy for D3 is when he's recovering, as he's prime target for fair/bair/dair, which may force him to use his up-B earlier. So moral of story, if you're playing D3, don't get knocked off stage.

Also please don't try approaching with a kick just cause he's big. It's easier to see coming than.. well.. anything.

 

[RoyalBlood]

See, when 2 boards contribute we get a heated and healthy discussion ^^
8O Ztarfish is now a Dedede :o

 

[Ztarfish]

Oh I still play Zelda I just like Dedede more ^^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Also please don't try approaching with a kick just cause he's big. It's easier to see coming than.. well.. anything.

ah... but you should think outside of the box. if you shorthop at DDD, he'll expect a LK... mix in empt shorthop approaches, he won't know when to expect which.

 

[Oh Snap]

Whats iffy for D3 is when he's recovering, as he's prime target for fair/bair/dair, which may force him to use his up-B earlier. So moral of story, if you're playing D3, don't get knocked off stage.

and uair XD

 

[Ztarfish]

ah... but you should think outside of the box. if you shorthop at DDD, he'll expect a LK... mix in empt shorthop approaches, he won't know when to expect which.

Whats the point of that? Then you're just asking to be grabbed. Besides, it's painfully obvious which approach you're using. If you're aiming for a kick, you're gonna be setting up the spacing, meaning your jumps will be more meaningful, thus easier to spy. If you're going for a SHAD tilt deal, or like a nair or something, the spacing wont be as important.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

then jump through DDD and backwards LK him... honestly... you act like once DDD puts up the shield he's invincible

 

[-Mars-]

Empty shorthops into dtilts are great against DDD. iirc he can't grab you out of a dtilt, so if he's not expecting it you won't get punished and you'll rack up some nice percentage at the same time.

 

[Ztarfish]

Yeah dtilt is sort of the only move that he can't really do anything about.

Also why is a backwards lightning kick any different than a forwards lightning kick? If anything it makes a bair that much easier to land if you sweetspot the shield. And yes, I'd say his shield does make him pretty darn invincible against her aerials.

Look, all I'm saying is that an approach with a kick is not a good idea. Kick him all you want while he's trying to recover, while he's trying to hit you with one of his aerials, while he's on a platform, whatever. Just don't approach with one. This should be a given against pretty much everyone else, I just assume that since he's big people start salivating at the thought of landing a kick.

 

[-Mars-]

Yeah dtilt is sort of the only move that he can't really do anything about.

Also why is a backwards lightning kick any different than a forwards lightning kick? If anything it makes a bair that much easier to land if you sweetspot the shield. And yes, I'd say his shield does make him pretty darn invincible against her aerials.

Look, all I'm saying is that an approach with a kick is not a good idea. Kick him all you want while he's trying to recover, while he's trying to hit you with one of his aerials, while he's on a platform, whatever. Just don't approach with one. This should be a given against pretty much everyone else, I just assume that since he's big people start salivating at the thought of landing a kick.

We salivate because we're going to be landing them a lot more than we normally do. Empty shorthops are actually pretty good, people are so afraid of the lightning kicks that they just sit there in thier shield while we approach.

Another thing we could do is empty shorthop to a pivot grab and after a while your going to try to counter this. This is where mindgames come into play.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yes... Ztarfish is just wrong here. If we mix in empty shorthops with LK approaches, DDD is forced to guess which one we are going to use or he's going to get punished.

 

[Ztarfish]

I'm so confused. I never said empty shorthop approaches are bad, but they don't panic me out and make me guess and put up my shield in a desperate attempt to escape the inevitable punishment. If anything I just expect a SH Nair and just.. er.. move out of the way.

A kick approach looks MUCH different than an empty SH approach or even a SH Nair approach.

I understand completely that he's a bigger target and therefore much easier to kick, I too get excited when facing a Bowser or something. All I'm saying is that you should try kicking when there is less he can do to punish it. That should be obvious <_<

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

A kick approach looks MUCH different than an empty SH approach or even a SH Nair approach.

they don't have to.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

<_<
>_>
I don't want to double post but it's a completely different point.

I don't think peach has the advantage on Zelda anymore... I discovered Zelda's jab and, I'll be darned if it didn't just cover a lot of the problems I was having with peach's float approach.

 

[RoyalBlood]

<_<
>_>
I don't want to double post but it's a completely different point.

I don't think peach has the advantage on Zelda anymore... I discovered Zelda's jab and, I'll be darned if it didn't just cover a lot of the problems I was having with peach's float approach.

T_T *remembers being flamed because he said Peach didn't have the advantage*
*also mentioned Zelda's jab on the argument*

Anyway, the problem for heavy-fattyweights like DDD is that Zelda's hitboxes make their job even better :D
Jab has hitboxes behind Zelda that will flinch them if they are coming from behind, D-tilt has hitboxes behind, F-smash has hitboxes behind, Lightning Kicks sweetspot becomes very weird sweetspoting at the tigh o_o Nair, U-smash, F-smash, D-smash, FW, NL all have hitboxes behind Zelda and they'll poke shields =3 Zelda has hitboxes all around her body.
The problem is she gets outranged by some of them like DDD and DK (Bowser...i don't think so 8D ) But F-tilt covers that :D Being faster than F-smash ( i think o_o) covers some range for Zelda ( F-tilt outranges both DK's F-tilt and Punch 8D ) Is this the same with DDD's hammer :o ??

Edit: I just picked up Mr. G&W. He's so fun to play 8D

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

T_T *remembers being flamed because he said Peach didn't have the advantage*
*also mentioned Zelda's jab on the argument*

I still don't think it's zelda's advatage now... I just think that my biggest problem was letting peach get to me with a float... and now I've found a way to stop that more often. It's still not an easy matchup, but it's not easy for peach either. Also, jab can grab turnips... and Zelda ***** with turnips.

And Royal... Jab wasn't ALL you said... you broght up stuff that wasn't so effective as well so I'm sorry I didn't try to trust some of it.


as for the Zelda, DDD matchup. Most of the zeldas that don't think Zelda has a big advantage here just aren't controlling the stage or the pace of the battle well enough.

DDD has a very specific range at which he can be moderatley effective in this matchup. It's zelda's fault if she lets him get there. Too far away Zelda can **** with din's and too close DDD can't outspeed her. he has to get into that perfect range where she can't reach with melees or get din's out in time... but, the thing is, Zelda has to LET him get there... while he's trying to space, all zelda needs to do is assault him while he's trying to space. honestly, Zelda has the advatage in this matchup, but many are just way too satisfied letting DDD take control of it and give himelf the best fighting chance he can get.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I still don't think it's zelda's advatage now... I just think that my biggest problem was letting peach get to me with a float... and now I've found a way to stop that more often. It's still not an easy matchup, but it's not easy for peach either. Also, jab can grab turnips... and Zelda ***** with turnips.

And Royal... Jab wasn't ALL you said... you broght up stuff that wasn't so effective as well so I'm sorry I didn't try to trust some of it.


as for the Zelda, DDD matchup. Most of the zeldas that don't think Zelda has a big advantage here just aren't controlling the stage or the pace of the battle well enough.

DDD has a very specific range at which he can be moderatley effective in this matchup. It's zelda's fault if she lets him get there. Too far away Zelda can **** with din's and too close DDD can't outspeed her. he has to get into that perfect range where she can't reach with melees or get din's out in time... but, the thing is, Zelda has to LET him get there... while he's trying to space, all zelda needs to do is assault him while he's trying to space. honestly, Zelda has the advatage in this matchup, but many are just way too satisfied letting DDD take control of it and give himelf the best fighting chance he can get.

About Peach : 8D Ok ok, Am I allowed to say that it's even right? 8D

About Dedede : Some problems i encountered are grabs >_< He can follow up with some annoying things and moves out of his shield, especially D-smash =/ BUT Zelda's moves out of her shield are better 8D If he tries to Bair you, U-smash out of a shield, since U-smash has sucking properties (sucks people and their parts in 8D ) and D-smash out of her shield that covers grab attempts and grounded attacks, so U-smash for Air and D-smash for Ground, although i'm clueless about which DDD moves push far so Zelda gets vulnerable for a DDD follow-up D:

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

yeah let's call it even for now... I cave, unless something comes up to change it.

yes. Zelda can be punished by DDD if he sheilds her..... but zelda's options out of sheild are scarrier even. I refuse to beleive this matchup is any closer than 65:35. and I think it's honestly worse.

I've mentioned why multiple times... no use beating a dead horse eh?

 

[Ztarfish]

Alright, so I, like yourself probably, am speaking from personal experience, and I've never had very much trouble with a Zelda to be completely honest. It is very possible that I am playing people whose strategies just don't work against Dedede, and therefore I invite you to broaden my horizons and introduce me to the style of Zelda that you believe gives Zelda such a large advantage.