Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[-Tempest-]

Ratio: I'd say 60:40 Toon's favor.

Stages: Go where you're comfortable. Stages that are good character-wise for Zelda can be utilized well by Toon.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Agreed, 60-40, move on, everything's been said. -_- *head hurtzzzzzzzzz, sryz 4 grouchy pie*

 

[Kataefi]

Okay cool! 60:40 toon link's favour it is. I changed the next character to normal link now =D Can someone fetch them?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

*goes to AiB to get Links*

 

[chris the brawler]

*comes to SWF to help Zeldas*
Link lets ganon kidnap and **** zelda.
95:5 Links favour (loljoke) i'll type in something usefull later today when i have time :3

 

[KayLo!]

I haven't fought a really good Link..... ever. x.o I don't think they exist in PA.....

(Wifi doesn't count, amirite?)

 

[Heartz♥]

Hey, Kat. Sorry I haven't been around the Zelda boards lately. Link is a one of the funnest people for me to play as Zelda, mainly because of his use of projectiles, and is constantly testing me in using Nayru's Love at the right time.

 

[GodAtHand]

I fought the one Link Main in NE and it was not tough. Just get him off the stage and its all over.

The only thing to worry about is using Din's while the boomerang is out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I play both characters so I'll help at what I can.

Link will try to projectile spam you even if you have a reflector. Zair can stop/slow aerial approaches.

He can fight Zelda upclose and kill her early.

The main problem lies offstage and whiffing. If Link whiffs anything, Zelda will punish it. Zelda can "kick" Link offstage.

One thing to keep in mind, don't Upsmash when Link Dairs, that move can kill and will hit Zelda out of her Upsmash.

If you're a Zelda/Shiek player, use Shiek more, she has a lot of nasty things she can do to Link that Zelda can't.

 

[sasook]

*goes to AiB to get Links*

Thank you for coming to the correct site to find the real Link mains. It's nice to see one of the boards actually knowing about our movement to AiB.

I haven't fought a really good Link..... ever. x.o I don't think they exist in PA.....

Just one, his name is Lawz.


As for the actual matchup, I wanna say right now that this is probably in Zelda's favor. A really (this is gonna sound weird) close range yet defensive Zelda is gonna **** Link. Basically, her CQC > Link's, and if you just play CQC with just punishing rather than followups, there's really nothing Link can do. I'm thinking moves like (correct me if I'm wrong) ftilt, utilt, usmash, fsmash, dtilt, grabs. At least, that's been my experience. Your dtilt -> dsmash works amazing on Link, especially if he doesn't know how, or can't, whiplash recover.

I'm fairly sure Nayru's Love > zair, but don't quote me on this. I just know Nayru's Love has a ton of priority and a really disjointed hitbox.

Link is probably gonna try to stay above you in this matchup, despite your usmash and uair. He'll probably bomb spam you from above on stages with platforms. On stages like FD.......lol.

Our nair can clank with your din's fire, and our main KO moves dsmash, fsmash, dair, utilt, ftilt, and sometimes spin attack and fair.

60:40 Zelda.



I wish ArkiveZero hadn't quit brawl....he'd help so much with this matchup.

 

[MrEh]

Finally a character that's gimped harder then Zelda. ^^


Just spam Dsmash and follow up accordingly. Seriously.

 

[Kataefi]

**** why did ArkiveZero quit? He was so talented!

Hey, Kat. Sorry I haven't been around the Zelda boards lately. Link is a one of the funnest people for me to play as Zelda, mainly because of his use of projectiles, and is constantly testing me in using Nayru's Love at the right time.

The itty bitty committee has finally arrived hahaha! (at last) xD when are you getting wifi?

 

[Darkmusician]

There's nothing to discuss really. You don't even have to hit Link with a kill move. Just focus on getting him off the stage and his recovery will do the rest.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

remember to ban norfair >.>

can Uair reach through Links Dair, or is it just to long?

 

[Kataefi]

Uair reaches everything... and yes it even beats Ike's down air! It's just getting the hitbox out in time that's the biggest problem!

So just a few questions from my part... is there an opportunity to counter camp against Link? Or is it simply not worth the hassle? And also... on a stock lead, will this force the approach from Link? What are his own approaches like?

I'm asking these questions to get some tips as I don't particularly do well to spam.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't think link's as easy as everyone's making him out to be. It's certainly our advantage, but I wouldn't even call us a hard counter for him, despite his low position on the teir list...

... but, yeah, Our DSmash wrecks him something feirce.

 

[chris the brawler]

I fought the one Link Main in NE and it was not tough. Just get him off the stage and its all over.

No.
there's better Link mains, he's easily gimped, but that's NOT how you deal with a match-up

The only thing to worry about is using Din's while the boomerang is out.

HUH?!

Finally a character that's gimped harder then Zelda. ^^


Just spam Dsmash and follow up accordingly. Seriously.

the same.

Uair reaches everything... and yes it even beats Ike's down air! It's just getting the hitbox out in time that's the biggest problem!

So just a few questions from my part... is there an opportunity to counter camp against Link? Or is it simply not worth the hassle? And also... on a stock lead, will this force the approach from Link? What are his own approaches like?

I'm asking these questions to get some tips as I don't particularly do well to spam.

Zeldas Uair *****, but it's not like any Link will just jump above you and go Dair /:
Din's fire iz too slow, so is teh luv reflector. I wouldn't try to outcamp the Link

... but, yeah, Our DSmash wrecks him something feirce.

Good Links can handle that by DI or whiplash

60:40 Zeldas favour
What would zeldas best gimping move be?
i can't imagine Fair, Bair or Dair would be very easy to hit with, and Nair would just help him recover lol

There's nothing to discuss really. You don't even have to hit Link with a kill move. Just focus on getting him off the stage and his recovery will do the rest.

Hey, what the hell is this? have anyone of you played anyone else than youtube noobs?

 

[sasook]

Finally a character that's gimped harder then Zelda. ^^


Just spam Dsmash and follow up accordingly. Seriously.

Lol, pretty much.

**** why did ArkiveZero quit? He was so talented!

Yeah, he was the second/third best Link in the world too.

What happened was, he got so tired of working so hard to win with Link (and maybe other characters, he didn't mention any others) and then tried going MK in a tourney.

...and he said "it was so EASY. That made me realize how broken this game is"

And he quit, due to the high imbalance.

There's nothing to discuss really. You don't even have to hit Link with a kill move. Just focus on getting him off the stage and his recovery will do the rest.

To an extent, yeah.

remember to ban norfair >.>

I might as well bring up his other good stages.

RC, Halberd, Brinstar. In that order.

can Uair reach through Links Dair, or is it just to long?

Uair reaches everything... and yes it even beats Ike's down air! It's just getting the hitbox out in time that's the biggest problem!

Yeah, and keep in mind Link has the fastest forced FF. (Lol, the Fox mains always dispute this with us, despite us saying FORCED FF rather than just regular FF).

So just a few questions from my part... is there an opportunity to counter camp against Link? Or is it simply not worth the hassle? And also... on a stock lead, will this force the approach from Link? What are his own approaches like?

Well, the joke but semi-truth is that Link has no approach. I don't really know how you would counter camp, I'm not even sure how Zelda camps (it has to be more advanced than just spam Din's Fire). Like I said, our nair clanks with your Din's Fire, so it won't work.

To be honest I don't think it's worth the hassle. Link excels in spacing (not spamming) - take that away and you're gold.

I don't think link's as easy as everyone's making him out to be. It's certainly our advantage, but I wouldn't even call us a hard counter for him, despite his low position on the teir list...

... but, yeah, Our DSmash wrecks him something feirce.

Well, the thing about good Link players is that our recovery sucks. As a result, we've developed freakin' insane DI. A good Link is actually hard to gimp, and lives til about 160% consistently.

But then again, it's Link. Even the pros get gimped. And that dsmash really does wreck us.

No.
there's better Link mains, he's easily gimped, but that's NOT how you deal with a match-up

Err.....getting Link offstage is automatically a disadvantage for any character. It can most definitely be how the matchup is played lol. There's more to Link than that, but in short, that's the basics. We've got our DI to rely on, and nothing else.

HUH?!

Zelda enters a free fall animation when using Din's Fire. As a result, if you pull her off stage with a returning boomerang while she's using that move, she'll fall helplessly.

Zeldas Uair *****, but it's not like any Link will just jump above you and go Dair /:
Din's fire iz too slow, so is teh luv reflector. I wouldn't try to outcamp the Link

I disagree there, Nayru's Love *****.

Good Links can handle that by DI or whiplash

Now, I don't have amazing DI like Arkive did, but mine's decent. When I first played a good Zelda, facing that dsmash is like facing a Wolf's dsmash - the trajectory is just too horizontal for you to DI it well. Link will NEED whiplash to recover against the dsmash and well....there's only 1 Link who's mastered that at the moment.

What would zeldas best gimping move be?
i can't imagine Fair, Bair or Dair would be very easy to hit with, and Nair would just help him recover lol

Weak hit of fair and bair can gimp - sweet spotted is self explanatory. Dair can spike too.

Only thing we have going for us is that the spin attack has a lot, I mean A LOT of priority (thank god).

Hey, what the hell is this? have anyone of you played anyone else than youtube noobs?

He's right, in a sense. I've explained why above.

 

[Kief]

Well sook said everything pretty much.

-Your CQC is way better than ours.
-You can easily gimp us with 1 dsmash.
-I personally find zair as my best weapon here. Idk about the other link mains, though.
-We get ***** when we're on top. (lol)
-If you spam dins, you may get lolgalekilled.
-Your dsmash actually has more range than our spin attack, which is -_-
-uh...non sweetspotted fairs, bairs, and dairs gimp us. sweetspot is obvious.
-I like to upB OoS if a Zelda attacks me with Farores a lot.
-Chris, cool it. Zelda mains are cool. D:<
-He's right anyway.
-60-40 Zelda

Hope I helped some.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Dsmash has a horizontal trajectory. Link doesn't like that. enough said.

Anyways, people are throwing around the get him off the stage he'll kill himself stuff. Link can DI the Dsmash and live quite easily. I don't see how gimping is a concern when Zelda's Fair should just outright kill Link.

sasook is right that Link doesn't have much to approach with, but he shouldn't need it too badly to since even with a reflector, Zelda is going to have to approach. She can't reflect and shoot din's Fire all day.

55-45/60-40 Zelda.

 

[sniperworm]

I can honestly say that I've never played against a good Link. That being said, I don't think Link should be taken so lightly.

His range is quite far and while he doesn't attack very fast, neither does Zelda (in terms of spacing moves). Like the others have been saying, fighting him up close is definitely where we want to be since that's where our fast ground moves (Dtilt, Dsmash, and Usmash) come into play. Link has a 2-hit Zair, watch out for it while approaching.

I would imagine that it's possible to counter camp against Link, however, it's not really worth the effort. Gale Boomerang makes retreating Din's Glides more dangerous and Link's shield makes reflecting projectiles rather worthless.

Link can FF really fast, so don't be caught off guard by that. This also means that he'll survive to very high percents from vertical kill moves (and can survive for a very long time with proper DI). This means that Uair generally isn't worth the risk of eating a Dair and Usmash should be abused for damage racking (since it won't kill for a while anyway). Horizontal kill moves (especially Dsmash) will cause Link some trouble with his limited recovery. Beware of his tethering out of an airdodge to survive Dsmash (whiplash right?) or just him DIing into the stage and teching. Dtilt lock to Dsmash can be very lethal to Link since it tends to induce bad DI.

Link can be gimped ... I won't really go into this because it's pretty obvious. Just remember that he has a tether recovery too.

Link can kill Zelda pretty early with that Dair. Be careful when recovering or he'll stick you with it when you reappear. Gale Boomerang can also cause problems for a teleporting Zelda trying to aim for a certain spot, so be aware of that too.

I don't know about matchup ratio because I've never played a good Link. That being said, I doubt it's too important because this matchup is very unlikely to happen in a tournament (I would imagine that Link is about as rare as Zelda).

 

[Heartz♥]

**** why did ArkiveZero quit? He was so talented!



The itty bitty committee has finally arrived hahaha! (at last) xD when are you getting wifi?

Argh. Maybe this week when I pay a visit at the cyber cafe. I've been playing with friends since last week. I'll let you know, and I will need that link again. Sorry lol

 

[sasook]

Link can DI the Dsmash and live quite easily.

That dsmash is crazy hard to DI, harder to DI than most horizontal moves because it's completely horizontal, rather than horizontal at an angle. Best option is to whiplash really, and that in itself is pretty tough.

sasook is right that Link doesn't have much to approach with, but he shouldn't need it too badly to since even with a reflector, Zelda is going to have to approach. She can't reflect and shoot din's Fire all day.

Zelda does a great job....chasing I wanna say, dunno what word to use.....regardless, she can actually stick to him pretty well if she plays it right. Especially on a small stage.

I would imagine that it's possible to counter camp against Link, however, it's not really worth the effort. Gale Boomerang makes retreating Din's Glides more dangerous and Link's shield makes reflecting projectiles rather worthless.

Lol, I really dunno why every character board brings this up. Link's Hylian Shield is useless. Not semi-useless, not mostly useless, it's completely useless. The times when Link can use it, usually have way better options.

The Gale Boomerang will only pull you on its way back or at the very tip of it's trajectory. Otherwise, it's a standard projectile.

Horizontal kill moves (especially Dsmash) will cause Link some trouble with his limited recovery. Beware of his tethering out of an airdodge to survive Dsmash (whiplash right?) or just him DIing into the stage and teching. Dtilt lock to Dsmash can be very lethal to Link since it tends to induce bad DI.

DI'ing into the stage and teching.......hmm, I didn't think of that. And yes, that's what a whiplash is. Though it's really hard.

That being said, I doubt it's too important because this matchup is very unlikely to happen in a tournament (I would imagine that Link is about as rare as Zelda).

Lol, we got like........6 regular tourney Links in total. The rest are sometimes tourney/mostly wifi Links.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That dsmash is crazy hard to DI, harder to DI than most horizontal moves because it's completely horizontal, rather than horizontal at an angle. Best option is to whiplash really, and that in itself is pretty tough.

And I thought it was my crappy ability to use DI.

The More You Know!

Zelda does a great job....chasing I wanna say, dunno what word to use.....regardless, she can actually stick to him pretty well if she plays it right. Especially on a small stage.

Can't shake your girlfriend Link, tsk tsk.

Anyways she can keep up, but she is still the one who needs to approach. Link will want to space as well as he can and not to wiff anything. Zelda's punishment game is really good.

 

[MrEh]

Link can FF really fast, so don't be caught off guard by that. This also means that he'll survive to very high percents from vertical kill moves (and can survive for a very long time with proper DI).

PNDMike swears that he Rested a Link when he was at 95%, and raised his arms in triumph.

Too bad Link survived the Rest and then proceeded to hit Jiggs with a fully charged Dsmash.


Link is stupidly heavy.

 

[sasook]

This is Link's true recovery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

At 2:30

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Regardless with DI though, Link can survive that long, doesn't mean he won't get gimped or edge hogged. XD

 

[JigglyZelda003]

but id does mean you can't just dsmash at 90% and dtaunt ggs.

 

[Anonano]

Zelda's going to have a tough time landing any Din's Fires, but then Link's going to have a hard time getting most projectiles in.
Be very careful of his bombs though; if thrown straight down at Nayru's Love, it will go straight through and hit Zelda anyway. Further, when the bomb is reflected it keeps going on its downward trajectory, meaning that you're most likely going to eat it anyway. So be very wary about those. Also, while he can't directly approach you due to the fear of eating an fsmash/Nayru's Love/Usmash/dash attack, zair is going to be a heavily used spacing tool and will cause you a lot of grief.
When Link gets zair happy, walk towards him two inches, shield, then fsmash/Nayru's Love/dsmash. If you have to, revert to that dash attack. Also, FH fair/bair never hurts if the Link wasn't expecting you to jump over his zair.

Link has pretty solid control over mid and long ranges, so focus on getting in his face. Zelda's moves come out way too quickly for Link to counter most of the time, and Link doesn't quite have the range he needs to deal with that fsmash, nor the priority to beat out Nayru's Love.
If Link is trying to juggle/combo you, Nayru's Love has a very strong chance of nailing Link and giving you a breather, so use it when under pressure from Link. He really doesn't have the speed, range, or priority to deal with it.

 

[Poltergust]

When is the summary of Yoshi going to be done? =(

 

[MrEh]

When is the summary of Yoshi going to be done? =(

Doesn't really matter. It's Yoshi and Zelda after all.

Who cares? lol

 

[Brinzy]

He does, now back under the bridge.

 

[sasook]

Like Ano said somewhat, Nayru's Love totally ***** this matchup. Though Ano, it's highly disjointed, I'm willing to say even to the length of Link's third jab, so they may not eat the reflected bomb every time. I'm not sure though, I'll test when I get home.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Mario boards are discussing stage cp's w/ zelda this week: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213129

If you know anything please share it because no one is actually discussing it lol >_>

 

[Poltergust]

OK, I was asked to do a summary of this match-up, and even though I'm not the best at this sort of thing I'll try to make it as complete as possible.

Overview:

Yoshi can give Zelda many problems if the Zelda player doesn't know what he/she is dealing with. He has an air-game that wins over Zelda's, and his off-stage game against her is fantastic. However, there are many weaknesses that Zelda can take advantage of in this match-up. One major advantage that Zelda has in this match-up is her ground game, which almost completely overrides Yoshi's. She is able to apply a lot of pressure to him since he can't jump out of his shield, and she has greater range in her attacks, too. Another factor that gives her that advantage is Din's Fire coupled with Nayru's Love. Although Yoshi has an overall better projectile, her projectile makes it so that Yoshi has to approach her. Since Yoshi doesn't have any relatively safe approaches against her due to her anti-aerial attacks, this greatly turns the tide in her favor. Also, Yoshi is a bit easy to Lightning Kick OOS, especially after he whiffs an attack. Yoshi has to play very carefully since Zelda can KO him early.

Moves to Watch Out For:

B-air: Although not as effective in this match-up as in others, Yoshi's b-air is still a forced to be reckoned with, especially if Zelda finds herself in the air. It does a good amount of damage and is quick, so Zelda needs to be on the lookout for it and counter it with an up-smash if she finds the chance. This is Yoshi's main approach, but it can still be brought down by Zelda's anti-aerial game. So basically, don't try to fight Yoshi in the air if his back is facing you since you won't win, and try to find an opening to counter his b-air if you are on the ground.

U-air: This move is Yoshi's best KO move and it comes out extremely fast. It works especially well on Zelda since it can kill her when she is a little past 100%. It's mostly effective for using it to edge-guard Zelda (along with up-smash) and to KO her after a throw. Zelda's slow fall-speed doesn't help her at all since it makes it even easier to land it. If Yoshi is below you, I'd recommend air-dodging down, but even that can be punished if Yoshi is fast enough. In essence, Zelda is screwed if she is above Yoshi, so try not to ever fall into that situation.

Egg Toss: Yes, while Zelda can indeed out-camp Yoshi, this move can still pose a problem for her when she doesn't expect it. It does moderate damage and has a nice blast radius; it can also bounce off of shields and still hit you, too. If you want to deal with the eggs correctly, you need to learn what is the right move to deal with them depending on the situation you are in. On the ground? Use Nayru's Love if Yoshi is far and counter with Din's Fire or powershield if Yoshi is near and punish his ending lag. In the air? Yeah... she's basically doomed here. She has to mindgame Yoshi in order to avoid an ever-dangerous u-air follow-up whether she dodges it or not (like I said, Zelda's slow fall-speed doesn't help her). Recovering? Try to predict where the egg will land and act accordingly. Yoshi could be setting you up for an f-air spike if you aren't careful.

Pivot-grab: Ah yes, the pivot-grab. Being on of the best in the game, it is a force to be reckoned with. This is the one move that can beat Zelda's ground game, but the problem is actually managing to space Yoshi enough so that he can grab her without being punished. Still, this attack is quick and almost lagless, so Zelda has to be careful about not falling into it. While Yoshi has no grab-release options on Zelda, his throws can set up the perfect opportunity to edge-guard or KO. Remember, Zelda wants to stay grounded in this match-up since she dominates there.

What Can Zelda Do?:

Eh, since I don't main Zelda (only second her) I'll leave this part up to you guys. I'm also too lazy to do this section.

Stages:

Luigi's Mansion- Although it may not be a counterpick in as many tournaments as it was before, it is still Zelda's #1 counterpick for Yoshi. This stages forces Yoshi to fight a ground game against Zelda, something that he pretty much can't win on. He also has trouble KOing, and Zelda can safely camp behind the pillars to give Yoshi an even HARDER time.

Battlefield- I believe that this is Zelda's best neutral stage, right? Easy Lightning Kicks on the platforms along with better recovery options make this stage a good counterpick. Also, with the platforms in the way Yoshi would have a harder time approaching Zelda. Just be wary of Yoshi's up-smash. It can easily shield-poke Zelda through the platforms, and even if it doesn't, if Zelda stumbles off the platform and doesn't jump or tech in time, Yoshi has a free f-smash.

Match-Up Ratio:

60-40 Zelda

Videos:

None as of yet.

 

[Heartz♥]

Hey, Poltergust. Remember me from SuperSmashBC and Global Smash? lolol. Sorry, I just can't ever forget those Zelda dittos we had.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i like Poltergust summary so far, we just need to add the rest of the Zelda lines

 

[Poltergust]

Hey, Poltergust. Remember me from SuperSmashBC and Global Smash? lolol. Sorry, I just can't ever forget those Zelda dittos we had.

Ah, I remember you! I remember that we fought while Zelda was still my main.

 

[Heartz♥]

Ah, I remember you! I remember that we fought while Zelda was still my main.

Awesome. How have you been?

 

[Poltergust]

Good, good. Of course, since then I've been maining someone else. =P