Red_Bandit said:
The biggest problem is you have to bait & space for this to happen but not allow him to bucket your dins. I'm not saying it is impossible, it is just difficult
RoyalBlood said:
I think this could be useful in the matchup and
it's kind of situational so
If this works, it's purpose is to combat the turtle and also find a way to stop Mr. G&W if he uses the turtle not find a way to damage G&W
Zelda's Smashes can do that quite well
Marsulas said:
That's interesting Royal Blood. You should probably contact A2ZOMG, he seems to know a lot about the turtle and its properties.
This is the response I got from the "missing hitbox" question:
A2ZOMG said:
I highly doubt it. I'm pretty sure the attack is composed of hitbox durations that are directly linked to one another without gaps (except for the gaps of lag you experience between connecting hits, but a dodge can't really avoid it).
But then, it wouldn't be a multi-hit right? Then you wouldn't be able to DI out from it?
What is a multi-hit?
What happens in that frame?
The frame data guide said that the hitbox stays out for 2 frames :
10-11--->13-14---> etc
But to strenghten my previous statement about the part where the turtle has no hitbox I present you this:
RyokoYaksa said:
Also, if Marth blocks the Fsmash, he can Up+B in between the little hits before the move even gets a chance to hit hard
Sorry for quoting you RyokoYaksa but I need to know this
Blocking means shield right? Why can he do it? Because his Up-b has invincibility? Because it comes at frame 1?
And the ones of you that were at the Jigglypuff discussion at the Jiggypluff boards may have noticed that some of the jigglypuffs mentioned that Jiggly may be able to get out of Usmash by resting
But since Jigglypuff is in hitstun while in Usmash I doubt it's possible
Anyway, you may also know that Marth and MK players tend to use their UP-Bs when Mr. G&W gets them in the turtle, but revisiting A2ZOMG response he says that the turtle has hitboxs interlaced that means one hitbox goes to another BUT in the Mr. G&W Frame Data thread it says the hitbox is out for 2 frames and then it skips 1 frame and the next hitbox comes out, if that is the case maybe that's why Marth and MK are able to get out of the turtle because if not they would experiment the same predicament of Jigglypuff in Zelda's Usmash, Jigglypuff is in hitsun and unable to initiate an attack due to being hit
My conclusion is that Mr. G&W turtle indeed has an instant where there is not hitbox present, physically yes but a damaging hitbox, no
That may be the cause I was able to take out Mr. G&W out of the turtle, even when Din's Fire travel distance was quite short since the hitbox is not there to cancel it
And it's uncommon since you have only 1 frame to detonate Din's Fire
That's why I need frame data because I don't know if Din's Fire explodes the instant moment Zelda does her animation, like a clap
I also don't know if it explodes later and then you have to time it before time and stuff
And also since Din's Fire is a projectile, but it's different than all the other projectiles, Din's Fire won't hurt anything until Zelda detonates it, if it touches a character or any of their atributtes (swords, parasol etc.) It won't explode, same with Mr. G&W turtle.
Din's Fire is like travelling air
Marth and MK are able to get out of it because in the frame where the hitbox disappears they get out of hit stun and are able to initiate their attacks since both come out at frame 1 and have invincibility AND multi hits have almost null hitstun
Jigglypuff can't get out of Usmash because she's still in hitsun?
Then my question is Are all multi-hits the same? Do they have the same properties?
If so, why?
That's why I need Frame data for Zelda, the mechanics of the turtle AND how does a multi-hit functions
In Smashwiki there is no info about multi hitters and I don't know who should I contact
RyokoYaksa? Ankoku? A smash researcher?
Are they trustable? Do they capture frame data right? They still play Brawl?
All of this needs confirmation because I've searched for frame data on characters boards who have multi hitters and surprinsingly none of them explain in depth the multi hits except G&W
If you know someone in which you or I can trust, please ask them and then explain me please
Thanks in advance people