~ Zelda Q & A / FAQs / Directory ~

[KayLo!]

I got a question. More of an observation, really.

This might just be **** luck on my part, but I trip an AWFUL lot as Zelda. Noticeably, significantly more than I trip with other characters.

It happens the most often when I Din's, so my theory is that since I over-b by hitting the control stick, then pressing b (as opposed to vice versa), I'm technically "running" for a frame or two, which gives her an opportunity to trip.

Luckily, since I only Din's when when the opponent is pretty far, I rarely get punished for it.... but still, it's annoying and puts me in a bad position when I'm on the ground and forced to either get up or roll. ****s with my spacing.

Should I start practicing the press b, then control stick method? -_- Does anybody else experience this, or does Brawl just hate me? x.x

Or maybe my fingers just aren't fast enough, lol.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It happens the most often when I Din's, so my theory is that since I over-b by hitting the control stick, then pressing b (as opposed to vice versa), I'm technically "running" for a frame or two, which gives her an opportunity to trip.

This is true. Every time you slam control stick either to left or right while on the ground you have roughly 1% chance of tripping. Pressing b first eliminates this, as well as learning to press control stick softly instead of slamming it. Then there's also the possibility of always pressing jump first and then immediately Din'ing.

If you feel like it bothers you it's not too hard to learn any one of the methods I mentioned, probably the second one being the easiest to use.

There also apparently isn't any difference in the chance of tripping between characters but I could swear Captain Falcon and Zelda trip more frequently than the other characters combined.

 

[KayLo!]

Eh, I'll just switch my button order. It's not a huge deal, just annoying that I have to remember to do it now. x.x Playing Pika and Olimar, it's easier for me to do it the way I do it now (since they rarely need to over-b while on the ground), but OF COURSE Zelda would need special treatment.

****. -_-

There also apparently isn't any difference in the chance of tripping between characters but I could swear Captain Falcon and Zelda trip more frequently than the other characters combined.

Trufax. In Zelda's case, it's probably just because she's usually on the ground, although I try not to run too much with her.

Which always fails. Impatient, aggro Zelda ftw.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I couldn't agree more with that last sentence. That's the playstyle she was truly meant to be played.

 

[MrEh]

B-stick it. :D

 

[zeldspazz]

Don't do this.

Zelda's Ftilt is too slow and does not have enough reach to beat out Marth's Fair. That's asking to be murdered. Marth is 100% dependent on his spacing to make his aerial approaches safe, so spacing aerials is second nature to nearly all competent Marth players.

Im pretty sure it was you who said this would work when we had the Marth discussion o________o

Or maybe it was SoR

 

[Darkmusician]

He might have been talking about Bowser's Ftilt. That does very well vs. Marth.

 

[sniperworm]

Zelda's up-angled Ftilt can beat Marth's aerial zoning in the same way that a running Usmash can. If he's expecting you to do something else (like retreat) he could easily get hit by the surprising range on Ftilt before he can react to it.

That being said, Zelda's Ftilt does not actually beat Marth's Fair.

 

[LaserBust]

Mmmhmm.. So its not just me huh, the moves really aren't that great, lol.
Kk ty ty. Ill try these tips today.

 

[zeldspazz]

Found the posts :D

Marth is great at zoning. That is why Zelda needs to be in ftilt (or maybe dtilt) range. Of course, it requires some good reacting/predicting to punish his less laggy moves (yes, jab and even fair can be punished on a PS, not gonna get ahead of myself and say on a normal block though - as for dtilt, forget it unless he screws up spacing).



It really takes a lot of practice to get used to Marth, or more importantly, hitboxes that go in arcs. It's easy to lose control of the fight because of that. Aside from that though, Zelda needs to be punishing his kill moves with lightning kicks, his ground game with dtilt/Dsmash/Usmash (you know when to apply each), and seeking to land ftilt and Fsmash by watching his spacing. It's a lot easier said than done. Likely a 40:60. *Possibly* 35:65, depending on what Zelda can really punish. Probably feels worse if you compare Zelda to Sheik though. Use Sheik if you can, because really, I believe that this fight is pretty much even... and yes, Sheik can kill Marth.

Pierce has tons of knowledge to share. I hope he sees this thread. I misplaced all the info he gave me about half a year ago, sadly...



Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, ftilt sorta works decently here. It has very good range on it and it can trade/beat Marth's aerials in numerous situations, as well as lose out if you aren't careful. I think if Zelda just waits until he's about in fair range, she's actually at a decent range herself for her own attacks. Of course, you don't wanna get tippered over and over, so I guess if it makes sense, operate at ftilt range vs. an aerial Marth. As for the ground, I've had much more success just playing extremely aggressive against Marth. It can be tough to get inside his defensive game, but the main thing you wanna get past is tippers. His killing potential isn't grand her. Of course, the damage will still add up.



It can be a tough fight for Zelda. Try to save at least one kill move. (Dsmash in general & Usmash for Marths that don't place themselves above Zelda, which should be many.) Shield the Dancing Blade. You *may* be able to interrupt between the 3rd and 4th hit on block with Dsmash, but I'm not totally sure.

So you're saying this is wrong (just pretaining to the sentences about ftilt)? If I ever said it "beats out" Ftilt, I didnt mean that, I meant it can compete range-wise.

Edit: I did say it competes :|

It seems to work for me, so w/e

 

[MrEh]

Zelda's up-angled Ftilt can beat Marth's aerial zoning in the same way that a running Usmash can. If he's expecting you to do something else (like retreat) he could easily get hit by the surprising range on Ftilt before he can react to it.

That being said, Zelda's Ftilt does not actually beat Marth's Fair.

This.

He might have been talking about Bowser's Ftilt. That does very well vs. Marth.

I might have also been talking about Wario. Both of their Ftilts have a chance to beat out Marth, or they'll trade hits.

I meant it can compete range-wise.

But it doesn't. Marth's Fair has more range.

Edit: I did say it competes :|

In order for a move to compete with Marth's Fair, we need to assume that it can reliably smack Marth out of his Fair. Not just sometimes, but consistantly. I am not saying that it's impossible for Zelda's Ftilt to hit Marth out of his Fair, but it's too unreliable to recommend it to others.

It seems to work for me, so w/e

That's good then.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

If you kill with ftilt, you're.... doing it wrong. x.x.

you know thoes random Ftilt moments and people DIing it wrong get some of the sexiest kills next to Dins KOs.

There also apparently isn't any difference in the chance of tripping between characters but I could swear Captain Falcon and Zelda trip more frequently than the other characters combined.

god i know! everytime im running around as cptn bobobo i spend most of the time falling flat on my face. D:< i hate you sakurai for having random tripping!!

 

[zeldspazz]

Im telling you. Its the stupid dress >_>
Notice how Peach lifts her up when she runs.
Thats why Peach is midtier.

 

[MrEh]

you know thoes random Ftilt moments and people DIing it wrong get some of the sexiest kills next to Dins KOs.

Best kills are Dtilt spikes.

Trufax.

 

[HURRICANE REV]

I am planning on using Zelda. She plays interesting IMO. Has zelda got a good offensive game or Defensive game or both?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

shes defensive

 

[KayLo!]

Has zelda got a good offensive game or Defensive game or both?

Horrible offensive game but really good defensive game.

Be forewarned that although Zelda is primarily a defensive character, she will often be forced to approach because of the fact that she's easily outcamped (Din's not made for straight-up camping in 95% of MUs).

So..... yeah, you gotta get creative, because her number of safe approaches is pretty much zero.

That being said, she's a solid character for low tiers and has winnable matchups as long as you're not trying to play her vs. top/high tiers all the time. Generally, the higher on the tier list you go, the worse her MUs get, so I'd advise having a good secondary to handle them.

 

[HURRICANE REV]

shes defensive

Horrible offensive game but really good defensive game.

Be forewarned that although Zelda is primarily a defensive character, she will often be forced to approach because of the fact that she's easily outcamped (Din's not made for straight-up camping in 95% of MUs).

So..... yeah, you gotta get creative, because her number of safe approaches is pretty much zero.

That being said, she's a solid character for low tiers and has winnable matchups as long as you're not trying to play her vs. top/high tiers all the time. Generally, the higher on the tier list you go, the worse her MUs get, so I'd advise having a good secondary to handle them.

I see. Thanks for that guys.

 

[zeldspazz]

Dunno if this was known, but I managed to hit Snake with Zelda's farthest jab hitbox and made an animation that looked like it may jab lock or something. So Im thinking maybe Zelda can possibly jab lock? I have a vid if you want to see, unless this is known

I just realized that is probably wasnt the best thread for this, but whatever o__o

 

[MrEh]

Lots of moves in this game have jab lock properties, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda's jab worked as well. Of course, that doesn't make it useful though...

 

[zeldspazz]

Lots of moves in this game have jab lock properties, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda's jab worked as well. Of course, that doesn't make it useful though...

It would just be another situational thing for Zelda worth looking out for. She has so many, why not just add to the list?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Lots of moves in this game have jab lock properties, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zelda's jab worked as well. Of course, that doesn't make it useful though...

Not true. It forces a get-up, which you can predict and punish with a lightning kick if you have good timing, or possibly a charged DSmash if they're small, or a DTilt lock if it's the right percents.

Plus you get to watch your opponent have a spasm, which is always fun.

 

[zeldspazz]

Would anyone like me to upload the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZLWjP3KnVc I uploaded it anyway xD

 

[Kataefi]

It has jab lock properties but you can never jab lock out of it properly because it pushes them away. You'd have to walk and jab for the lock to continue and you wouldn't have enough frames to do it before they can use a tech option.

edit: **** I completely missed the point! Yeah so it forces a get up then? Now if the jab always connected from a missed tech from DA then it may have worth. I was under the impressoin they could roll as well as stand up.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Actually, the 'jab lock' is a tad bit of a misnomer here. Although it forces a get-up like jab locks do, if you try and do the move after jab locking once, then your opponent will simply revert to their standing position. Weird, I know...

 

[Kataefi]

It's the forced get up that's the most interesting thing about this, not so much trying to get a lock that won't work.

 

[zeldspazz]

Yeah, Saviorslegacy found this out actually (about the forced get-up). He found a list of moves that caused that animation, and called it a "ground lock" when it cant be followed up with the same move, which is why I included that in the title.

Do you guys suggest tap jump on or off for Zelda and why?

 

[sniperworm]

Yeah, Saviorslegacy found this out actually (about the forced get-up). He found a list of moves that caused that animation, and called it a "ground lock" when it cant be followed up with the same move, which is why I included that in the title.

Do you guys suggest tap jump on or off for Zelda and why?

Tap jump on. Usmash, Nair, Bair, and UpB OoS are all easier to do (especially Usmash and UpB). Cons are it's harder to Utilt and you might accidentally waste your jump when you UpB.

 

[GodAtHand]

Hopefully if I can get this down it leads to a free lightning kick!

Controls for me: Z=attack, X=grab, Tap jump off.

Z as attack allows me to still do swift air moves out of shield and if you c-stick you can charge and c-stick without clawing. X as grab is just natural as I use Y to jump and Having all the "attack" moves on the pad seems right to me.

 

[zeldspazz]

Haha I love the two opinions clash ^_^

I personally have tap jump off and R set to attack. I can see both your points, it would take epic time to get used to both.

 

[Darkmusician]

I like tap jump on because I'm used to jumping with the joystick sometimes especially when I want to c stick in the air right after.

 

[KayLo!]

Tap jump off, L = jump, Y = grab.

Control setup of champions.

 

[zeldspazz]

I instinctively hate everyone who alters their controls. Seriously, why learn to be technically good enough to tilt instead of smash when I can turn the option off! See you later, skill, here comes the a-hole express! Wasting your time changing my controls since 2008.

I just find it incredibly irritating that someone just can't use the normal controls, considering nothing is ****ing wrong with them.



Every tournament someone comes up to me and is like, hey let's friendly, then takes half an hour to setup their ****ing controls.

Funny stuff in that thread

 

[Darkmusician]

Lol I don't hate anyone that uses different controls but I've never bothered to change mine from default. Been going with w/e was given to me since Melee.

For me personally tap jump helps me to DI better as well.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i like tap jump off, although it makes upB OoS difficult. i use the remotchaku anyway

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I have default controls and I alternate between tap jump on and off. Both have their advantages, depending on the situation.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

Tap jump on, R set to Attack (for DACUS purposes).

Also, regarding the forced get-up stuff that I'm too lazy to quote, perhaps dash grab would be a good followup to this? From the video it seems like there's just the right amount of time to put the grab there for when he gets up.

 

[MrEh]

Tap jump on. Usmash, Nair, Bair, and UpB OoS are all easier to do (especially Usmash and UpB).

UpB OoS is serious business. Saving 7-ish frames is freaking amazing.

 

[zeldspazz]

So is Upb out of sheild amazing because of mindgames or is like actually have a legit purpose, because its one thing about Zelda you actually rave about MrEh

 

[KayLo!]

He's rarely serious. 90% of the time, it's better to just ignore his posts.