Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[ZombieBran]

I think equipment is just terribly designed all around.

It's a shame because that smooth lander effect would've really solved our nair problem. It would've also made fair/bair not entirely crazy to try on a grounded opponent.

 

[Azew]

I've been playing for a while, and for some reason she works well for me. Using her seems so natural and I feel like I always know the best move to use. I'm glad to join the Zelda ssb4 community.

 

[Mr.CreamCakes]

I've been playing for a while, and for some reason she works well for me. Using her seems so natural and I feel like I always know the best move to use. I'm glad to join the Zelda ssb4 community.

yeah usually it takes a while to find a true main. I used to main link and he just wasn't really for me and I tried Zelda and I just felt so comfortable playing and then she became my main

 

[ぱみゅ]

The Speed Stat is mostly noticeable when characters are airborne, not when walking/running.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So my friend picked up Game & Watch and it's terrifying. How do I go about dealing with him? Killing him isn't a problem but actually hitting him is a gigantic one.

I also quickly found out that Din's Fire doesn't work since the Bucket killed me at like 20%, so trying to zone him with that is out.

From what I'm assuming, the logical way to approach this matchup is to run away with Pivot Grabs and Phantom, use Up-B to reposition and stay in neutral as necessary. And be really consistent with OOS punishes. Watch his spacing and know at which ranges you can Jab, DA, Dashgrab, and F-air out of shield.

Your goal is to frustrate him and to minimize the number of times he hits you in neutral.

 

[Alacion]

If G&W is around 60% and he uses fair on Zelda's shield/spotdodge, it's a free KO.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If G&W is around 60% and he uses fair on Zelda's shield/spotdodge, it's a free KO.

You sure about that? His F-air isn't super laggy, so he'd have to space it pretty poorly on shield.

 

[Alacion]

Lack of shield stun and a tiny step forward or backward and you're golden.

 

[Rizen]

So G&W vs Zelda isn't the nightmare of an MU it was in Brawl?

 

[Alacion]

It's still pretty bad imo. Bair and jab are amazing tools that G&W has. His jab might even be good enough to cancel Zelda's ground approaches.

Probably still in G&W's favour but not the atrocity it was in Brawl.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's still pretty bad imo. Bair and jab are amazing tools that G&W has. His jab might even be good enough to cancel Zelda's ground approaches.

Probably still in G&W's favour but not the atrocity it was in Brawl.

I'm pretty sure unless things changed Zelda's D-tilt outranges G&W's Jab, while Zelda's Jab has similar range. While he does have more disjointed tilts than Zelda, none of them are safe on block in this game and also he has to respect F-smash on the ground. His real ground attack that got better was mostly his Dash Attack, which can punish almost anything in this game.

The bulk of his threat in footsies is aerials, which as a whole are harder for Zelda to punish consistently. B-air while laggier still does what its supposed to and can potentially be fullhopped safely, as well as his F-air.

 

[ぱみゅ]

isn't Phantom actually useful in this MU to punish any whiffed aerial?

 

[Meru.]

Does the first hit of UpB actually guarantee the second hit? I swear sometimes they get popped up to the side and the second hit misses... Please don't tell they can DI this .

 

[Alacion]

It's not guaranteed since you can DI. It helps that in Smash 4, vectoring seems to have more effect than DI so people tend to apply the former. I've played a lot of For Glory and some Local games with players in my scene and I would say 90% of the time the opponent gets sent straight up.

Percentage also matters. If you're too high or too low percent, the second hit isn't guaranteed. Despite this, it seems there's a very generous percentage range in which the first hit guarantees the second hit assuming no DI. Obviously this would depend per character as well as the rage effect, BUT I have seen it work in the range of 30% to 110%. 120% may be stretching it.

Up B is amazing to deal with laggy moves used against you. It requires bravery but you can punish rolls or spotdodge a grab into Farore's. Even better if you have the % lead.

http://youtu.be/kUpQL9P1gjE?t=28m45s That's pretty early

 

[Mocha]

Gorls I have officially droppedT Zelda for good.

Like I was a biT hyped up for the fast Din's fire but even then, the opponent just has to stay at mid range and Zelda's is practically left in the same position that she was in Brawl.
I can't deal with regular Din's nerf, the Lightning Kick nerfs, the up smash nerf, the down smash nerf, phantom being mediocre, etc...

Like the fact that solid characters like ZSS and Lucario got major buffs but Zelda got more nerfs than buffs is infuriating.
I honestly think she could be worst than Brawl Zelda. If not she's about equally as bad.
I'm sure this place being flooded with 98% casuals who think Farore's is the best move ever nobody will agree with me, but she can't even attempt space her opponents with aerials anymore.

Sorry, but I kind of agree with all of this. I don't want to hold final judgment until the Wii U version is out and we have superior controls/inputs, but yes, Zelda is very frustrating to use on the 3DS. You know what I also think?

A part of it too is our Brawl habits, Fuj. We are instinctively trying to play Zelda like we did in Brawl, and it's not working. The toughest part about this will be to break out of those habits. This is why I think new players have an easier time using Zelda than we do, because a lot of them weren't stuck with the Brawl habits of using her. I know this can't be said for everyone of course, but it's just a guess.

Good riddance to the queen of bottom tier, I mean why bother with her when you have a (not bottom tier if customs are allowed) GODDESS like Palutena to use.



Plus she's a lot more fun.

I dunno how you do it Cour.
Playing the same character with the same limitations and somethings being even worse...
I'm over her.

I mighT use ha against bad people and in low tier, because she's inevitable low tier.

Idk if you're trolling or not about enjoying Palutena, but I've found her more enjoyable to use, myself (on the 3DS anyway).

She feels more like Brawl Zelda than Smash 4 Zelda...

 

[Mocha]

Din's Fire? I find it hilarious when people complain to me if I kill them with it, which is VERY rare (cause it's not really that hard to avoid), and the hitbox is arguably as bad as Melee's hitbox. And yeah, all her smashes appear nerfed. Her down smash makes her posture look tense too, like she's going to curl up inwardly, rather than stretch out her leg and spin it around (with her glitchy arm and everything lol). Her upsmash no longer has that lil horizontal hitbox that vacuumed people in like what we were used to. Her fsmash still seems more or less similar, though (and I could be wrong about this), it SEEMS easier to SDI it?

So her buffs... a powerful Up B (which is nice and all but renders the whole 'scared to edgehog Zelda now' a moot point, since the ledge mechanics have changed. And yeah, I don't like relying on Farore's Wind as a reliable punish option, because it's a double-edged sword, and if you whiff that punish, then it leaves you exposed.

An uptilt that no longer kills, but can 'combo' into itself (though people can usually DI away by the second or third uptilt, depending on their weight, can't they?). Uh what else. Faster grabs, and slightly faster f-tilt/Nayru's Love? Was all of this a good trade for her other nerfs? You guys tell me.

I haven't even unlocked Zelda's customs yet. Isn't there anything worth noting to make her a bit more fun to use, at least?

But anyway. Fuj, what'll end up happening is that even if we use other chars, we'll end up going back to this one from time to time. I already said this: Zelda is like a bad relationship that you can't get out of. You'd have to be REALLY fed up with her and certain that you want to let her go to truly stop using her, but I don't think anyone has reached that point yet, especially with the game still being so new and the Wii U version not even out yet.

By the way, Zelda is a goddess too. Go play Skyward Sword.

Yeah yeah, a mortal goddess vs one that isn't afraid to be in her true form, but still.

 

[Alacion]

I play Zelda a bit, but I don't think I'll be competitive with her. Only reason why I play her is because of Farore's Wind, lol. Haven't picked out a main, but I have played a handful of characters. I have an idea on which characters I will play. I got 99 problems, but Zelda won't be one.

Palutena is nothing at all like Zelda. Palutena is a million times faster, shuts down people who camp, and has an incredible offstage game that's only all been buffed by recent findings. I'd happily play Zelda if she could do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfIyqrecAK8

 

[Mocha]

Palutena is nothing at all like Zelda. Palutena is a million times faster, shuts down people who camp, and has an incredible offstage game that's only all been buffed by recent findings.

No character is truly like another character - and the closest we have to that are clones. For being two non-clone characters, they (Brawl Zelda/Palutena) feel similar to me.

- Both teleport as recovery.
- Both have similar poses when using fair
- Both have powerful up airs that require precision, whilst their nairs have disjoined hitboxes and can auto-cancel.

Yes, I know their moves still function differently, but they are minor examples, along with the fact that my personal preference of playstyle with Brawl Zelda, a defensive/mid-range style - which somehow feels more natural as Palutena, in comparison to Smash 4 Zelda.

Sorry, I don't expect you, or anyone to understand where I'm coming from. I'm well aware they are totally different characters. It's only a personal opinion.

 

[TimeSmash]

I wonder if 1.0.4 will bode well for Zelda!!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

http://smashboards.com/members/fuoujin.276214/

see avatar

Edit: also Palutena is hyper aggressive rushdown, I don't see how Zelda's passive aggressive rushdown style even matches Palutena's.

 

[Rizen]

^"user's profile is not available". The mods are getting efficient at deleting Fujin related things, lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

 

[Alacion]

Just a note, using Farore's doesn't mean it's all or nothing. You can teleport in place or to the side if you feel like the first hit won't connect.

Somebody should gfycat Farore's 1&2 killing Pikachu at 29%.

 

[2004Zilla]

This Fujin guy, did he just get banned the moment he came back?

To keep it a bit on topic, I love using Naryu's Love for some reason.

 

[Rizen]

This Fujin guy, did he just get banned the moment he came back?

To keep it a bit on topic, I love using Naryu's Love for some reason.

TBH IDK why he got banned in the first place but he comes back with a similar name, posts and gets banned again. This has happened many times

 

[Alacion]

We should be proactive in quoting his posts so none of us misses them!

 

[Mocha]

Palutena is hyper aggressive rushdown, I don't see how Zelda's passive aggressive rushdown style even matches Palutena's.

Maybe cause not everyone likes playing hyper aggressive? Not everyone liked playing as a passive aggressive Zelda in Brawl either. As I said, the opinion was based on personal preference of playstyle (for now anyway), not that of the general public's preference of playstyle.

Anyway. Are any of Zelda's customs viable? If so, why?

 

[BJN39]

Anyway. Are any of Zelda's customs viable? If so, why?

Well, Din's Flare (Fast Din's) and both Phantoms are just as useable as their regular counterparts, but won't make a big play style difference. (As theses move aren't to be used too often anyways. xD ) Just preference over certain aspects such as a very fast Phantom charge with lower angle but no distance or KO power, or a high shield damage but less power Phantom.

The rest aren't really viable tho, and you're better off using the normal versions in those cases. Not that they can't have fun gimmick uses, such as Farore's Windfall being lolzy way to surprise gimp your opponent as shown by (I think) D3RK.

I'd say Farore's Squall, and Nayru's (Both alts) are the particularly "don't use" ones. Just my opinion on that, though.

Squall is like returning to Brawl level startup, losing any invisible travel advantage you had, AND no damage or KO power at all.

Nayru's Rejection causes turnaround, but...That's it. Worse reflect frames, roughly the same end lag, way worse KB (Which is neat for a GTFO like Nayru can be.)

With Nayru's Passion, you lose the invincibility AND reflection ability, and get a small sized explosion that can't even KO till 170%. Not to mention the hit-box happens like, 30 frames in...LOL. The only bonus is it's lower than average set angle of 30 ish.

@RyokoYaksa says it well about why Phantom strike (the no distance one.) is useable.

 

[Azew]

it a bit on topic, I love using Naryu's Love for some reason.

Yeah, It feels fun to use for some reason, but it isn't very practical.

 

[Phenomiracle]

People.

Apparently Sakurai pays attention to win/loss ratios to characters in online battles.

You know what that means.

Jump online. And start losing the hell out yourselves as Zelda.

Mwahahaha

 

[Alacion]

^But... that already happens anyway.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

also Palutena is hyper aggressive rushdown, I don't see how Zelda's passive aggressive rushdown style even matches Palutena's.

in addition to what Mocha said, I think somewhere everyone can see some weird connection between palutena and Zelda, otherwise why do we even see people compare them or see Zeldas run to her? You don't here Zelda and robin comparison when robin is the closest to her in fire emblem terms. I think even if we can't say exactly why Palutena and Zelda are like sisters.

I also think nayrus passion might still have a use, it sucks people in even though it doesn't reflect or have invincibility. It might be a pocket custom

 

[Toadallstar2]

People.

Apparently Sakurai pays attention to win/loss ratios to characters in online battles.

You know what that means.

Jump online. And start losing the hell out yourselves as Zelda.

Mwahahaha

damn my great win ratio.

omg I played brawl for the first time in months... such a difference I've noticed. FW is sooo slow and recovery is sooo bad. Her tilts are so slow. I'm now convinced that overall we're in a better situation than Brawl. The ending lag is so minimal on her aerials though which I miss.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

People.

Apparently Sakurai pays attention to win/loss ratios to characters in online battles.

You know what that means.

Jump online. And start losing the hell out yourselves as Zelda.

Mwahahaha

source?

in addition to what Mocha said, I think somewhere everyone can see some weird connection between palutena and Zelda, otherwise why do we even see people compare them or see Zeldas run to her? You don't here Zelda and robin comparison when robin is the closest to her in final fantasy terms. I think even if we can't say exactly why Palutena and Zelda are like sisters.

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do you think this

Palutena is one of the fastest characters in the game movement speed wise (The fastest with Lightweight perma on), Zelda is basically one of the slowest.

Palutena has great aerials, Zelda does not.

Literally the only thing they have in common is that they have (Had, in Zelda's case) anti-air usmashes and similar Up B's (Teleport and Farore's) which aren't that similar since Palutena's has no known offensive application whereas Zelda's just like... leT me just KO yew at 10% for a biT.

And no, uair with palutena doesnt need precision. Throw that **** out and hit someone from half the stage away, that hitbox is JANK sis

And like, ok they have similar looking fairs? But they vary WILDLY in application, Palutena's fair is literally lagless, Zelda's on the other hand is approaching brawl bowser back air levels of landing lag.

 

[Rickster]

source?

It's from this: http://kotaku.com/little-mac-is-smash-bros-biggest-loser-1658263617

The second paragraph heavily implies that he looks at them. Who knew.

EDIT: Oh, and Sakurai basically telling noob Little Mac users that they're doing it wrong LOL.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

if he buffs little mac i will ****ing throw my wii u out the window

 

[GameAngel64]

I honestly think Zelda and Palutena are seen as related more due to the fact that they are both magic-using, elegant, somewhat ethereal ladies. And they have a teleport up+B. But it is mostly a superficial likeness that makes them seem more alike in people's minds.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do you think this.

I honestly think Zelda and Palutena are seen as related more due to the fact that they are both magic-using, elegant, somewhat ethereal ladies. And they have a teleport up+B. But it is mostly a superficial likeness that makes them seem more alike in people's minds.

Palutena is Zelda in an alternate time line lol

 

[Alacion]

Some Palutena vids from the top Smash 4 player in my area! This is the Palutena social, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epVROMvxGKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4Hsxpvecqk

 

[Mocha]

Well, Din's Flare (Fast Din's) and both Phantoms are just as useable as their regular counterparts, but won't make a big play style difference. (As theses move aren't to be used too often anyways. xD ) Just preference over certain aspects such as a very fast Phantom charge with lower angle but no distance or KO power, or a high shield damage but less power Phantom.

The rest aren't really viable tho, and you're better off using the normal versions in those cases. Not that they can't have fun gimmick uses, such as Farore's Windfall being lolzy way to surprise gimp your opponent as shown by (I think) D3RK.

I'd say Farore's Squall, and Nayru's (Both alts) are the particularly "don't use" ones. Just my opinion on that, though.

Squall is like returning to Brawl level startup, losing any invisible travel advantage you had, AND no damage or KO power at all.

Nayru's Rejection causes turnaround, but...That's it. Worse reflect frames, roughly the same end lag, way worse KB (Which is neat for a GTFO like Nayru can be.)

With Nayru's Passion, you lose the invincibility AND reflection ability, and get a small sized explosion that can't even KO till 170%. Not to mention the hit-box happens like, 30 frames in...LOL. The only bonus is it's lower than average set angle of 30 ish.

@RyokoYaksa says it well about why Phantom strike (the no distance one.) is useable.

Thanks for that info. I still need to unlock her customs, but the general consensus seems to be that they're not really much better than her default moves, so I'm not in a rush. I was just curious, hoping to see some possible applications, but we'll see once the Wii U version is out.

Some Palutena vids from the top Smash 4 player in my area! This is the Palutena social, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epVROMvxGKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4Hsxpvecqk

Courier, are you sure this is even a social thread?

Only watched the first link - and that looked fun. Inb4SakurainerfsPalutena'scustoms