Zelda's Bread and Butter Combos

[Miryafa]

Welcome to the thread all about Zelda's combos in Project M (3.6 Beta as of this post). Zelda's strength is in punishing opponents for mistakes, rather than going in. But combos help her get as much damage on a punish as possible, or even convert it into a stock. I'm going to post the combos I know following the format of Jacuzzi, whose post in the Fox section I really liked. If you know one I don't have, please post it and I'll add it to this post.

Spoiler: Definitions

A combo is a string of moves that the opponent cannot escape from due to hit-stun. Most combos work on most characters (i.e. not Luigi), however...

• If the opponent can escape with DI, it is a DI-dependent combo. Otherwise it is a true combo.
  
• If it only works on a small section of the cast, it is a character-dependent combo.

Din's - Din's Fire (side-B)
Jazz Hands - Auto-cancelled Uair. Note Jazz Hands (and Usmash) can be SDI'd and is less effective the floatier your opponent is.
L-cancel - cancel the move by hitting L/R within a few frames before landing
Land-cancel - cancel the move by landing during specific frames of the move, eg. using Nayru's Love in the air and touching the ground on or after frame 28
LK - Lightning Kick (Fair/Bair)
Low% - about 0 - 30% (sometimes higher for heavy/fast-fallers, sometimes lower for floaties)
Med% - about 30 - 70%
Nayru's - Nayru's Love (neutral B)
Ribbon - the hitbox on Zelda's ribbon that appears when she first starts Farore's Wind (up-B)
Sweet-spot dash attack - hitting with the hitbox on Zelda's face, which sends an opponent up rather than out
Sweet-spot Ftilt - hitting with the hitbox on Zelda's palm, which sends an opponent up and behind Zelda

Basic:
True combos
Uthrow > LK
Dtilt > Dsmash
Usmash > Usmash (low-med% only, not Fox/Falco/Wolf because they can shine out of it)
Usmash > Usmash > Usmash (low%, med/fast-fallers only, not Fox/Falco/Wolf because they can shine out of it)
Uthrow > grab > repeat (low%, character-dependent: Fox, Falco, Wolf, and maybe Falcon)
Usmash > grab (character-dependent: semi-fast fallers, fast fallers, and heavy characters)

DI-dependent
Fthrow/Dthrow > LK
Ftilt > LK
Dtilt > LK
Dtilt > Utilt
Dthrow > LK
Dthrow > off stage Dair
Fthrow into Din's > grab/LK/Ftilt
Bthrow into Din's > Utilt
Sour-spot dash attack into Din's > Utilt
Jab > Ftilt
Jab > grab
LK into Din's > LK


Complex:
True combos
ZHime combo (Put a Din's near the top of the screen > wait until it's about to explode > Bthrow opponent into the explosion)
Xeldorno Combo (Usmash > Usmash > Nair > Din's to cover tech roll > LK or Grab)
Sweet-spot Ftilt > Usmash
Sweet-spot Ftilt > Xeldorno Combo
Dtilt > Xeldorno Combo (requires med+ % for most characters)
L-cancel Nair > Dsmash/Nayru's
Land-cancelled Uair > Usmash/Utilt/grab/Ribbon
Land-cancel Nayru's > Utilt (character dependent, eg. ICs and Bowser)
Jazz hands > Dair
Jazz hands > sweet-spot Ftilt > Bair
Jazz hands > Usmash (low% only)
Dthrow into Din's > Uair/Fair (mixup depending on DI)

DI-dependent
Xeldorno Combo- (Usmash > Usmash > Nair > LK)


Platform Combos:
(under platform)
Sweet-spot Ftilt > Nair (sortof DI-dependent, Nair covers landing and tech-in-place)


Useful strings (not combos):
(on shield) reverse short-hop > Bair > Bair
Platform perfect-wavedash (from under platform: full-hop/double-hop > perfect wavedash)
Perfect wavedash off a platform > LK

 

[Downdraft]

How does B-throw -> LK work without Din's?
Please add Ribbon to the list of definitions. The ribbon hitbox of Farore's has followups on multiple characters.

DI-dependent
F-tilt -> LK
D-tilt -> LK
D-tilt -> U-tilt
D-throw -> LK
D-throw -> off stage D-air
F-throw into Din's > {grab, LK, F-tilt}
B-throw into Din's > U-tilt
Dash attack into Din's > U-tilt
Jab -> F-tilt
Jab -> grab
LK into Din's -> LK

True Combos
U-throw chaingrab on Fox, Falco, Wolf, and maybe Falcon
U-smash -> U-throw on semi-fast fallers, fast fallers, and heavy characters
Land-cancelled U-air -> {U-smash, U-tilt, grab, Ribbon}

 

[Kaeldiar]

How does B-throw -> LK work without Din's?

On Smashville's traveling platform

 

[Downdraft]

On Smashville's traveling platform

So now we're including stage dependent combos?

 

[Kaeldiar]

So now we're including stage dependent combos?

I live in MD/VA. We play 4 stocks, all Smashville, no items

 

[Miryafa]

How does B-throw -> LK work without Din's?

That was a typo - should be Dthrow. Thanks for catching it. And thanks for the extra combos!

By the way, for these 2 combos:
Dash attack into Din's > U-tilt
Land-cancelled Uair > Usmash/Utilt/grab/Ribbon

Are those sweet-spotted or no?

 

[the_irish_dude]

If I wasnt such a reaction based player I could help this out, but in all honestly Ive only played 3.6 in 3 tournaments and 0 practice. Im rusty and dont wanna give out false info <3

 

[Downdraft]

That was a typo - should be Dthrow. Thanks for catching it. And thanks for the extra combos!

By the way, for these 2 combos:
Dash attack into Din's > U-tilt
Land-cancelled Uair > Usmash/Utilt/grab/Ribbon

Are those sweet-spotted or no?

Dash attack isn't sweetspotted; the idea is to launch them forwards into the mine.
Auto-cancelled U-air doesn't have a sweetspot. Zelda auto-cancels during the electric flub hitbox.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Jazz hands (auto cancelled up air) true combos into up smash, up tilt, LKs, grab, jab, nair, and f tilt at different percents against different fall speeds. A lot of Zelda's stuff "true combos" at zero percent so it's really about how much damage you can do before their out of combo range.

EDIT: How many Zelda combo threads do we absolutely need? Do these threads improve other Zelda's combo games? If we're going to make these threads shouldn't we post footage or data to support certain combos over others instead of just theory crafting?

 

[Miryafa]

How many Zelda combo threads do we absolutely need?

How many are there? I looked at the first page of threads and didn't see one, so assumed it didn't exist. I posted this to compile all the combos into one place and hopefully get it pinned. I've already learned a few combos that would improve my Zelda game if I still played her, and Zelda needs combos in order to be a functional character now that LK doesn't KO below 80%. On that note, I'll shortly post some MMs where I actually do some of the combos I posted (Xeldorno, Dtilt > Nayru, land-cancel Nayru > Utilt).

On another note, would you provide the percentages that Jazz Hands combos into each of those things (eg. I assume low% into up-smash)?

 

[WhiteCrow]

How many are there?

On another note, would you provide the percentages that Jazz Hands combos into each of those things (eg. I assume low% into up-smash)?

My questions were meant to be more rhetorical than literal. There aren't many but I don't find them very productive since no real data comes out of them. In theory, up smash>upsmash>nair should always work at 0%, but it doesn't factor SDI or platforms for teching. A lot of Zelda's "combos" need Din's to be extended because she's so slow, and there are an infinite number of Din's setups in 3.6b

I don't have much footage on jazz hands yet but http://gfycat.com/NeedyGargantuanIbex If you slow the gfy down you can see that auto cancelled up air>fair has one frame where Ganon is not in hit stun, but jazz hands>dair and jazz hands>f-tilt>bair are true combos. For jazz hands>up smash %'s
vs fast fallers: stops working at around 45% at which point you can jazz hands>f-tilt
vs mid weights: stops working closer to 40%
vs floaties: stops working closer to 30%

Jazz hands can still be SDI'd and is less effective the floatier your opponent is.

 

[Mentor]

I've been developing a spreadsheet detailing zelda's combo options against various characters and have been thinking about releasing it. It's structured as a matrix with the columns as the 1st move and the rows as the second move, & the intersection gives the % range in which the pair of moves will work. If anyone's interested in making this a group project, let me know and I'll make it public. So far, I've detailed shiek (medium ff, medium weight), ganon (high weight), and falco (fast fall).

...The only issue w/ the spreadsheet is that it assumes no DI and no platforms.

 

[Miryafa]

...The only issue w/ the spreadsheet is that it assumes no DI and no platforms.

It's necessary to account for DI (to that end, I'm thinking about removing "DI-dependent" combos from the OP), but not accounting for platforms is ok, since there are lots of places with no platforms.

 

[Miryafa]

shouldn't we post footage or data...?

As promised:
Land-cancel Nayru's > Utilt
https://youtu.be/haVmtUzH6NM?t=13s

Dtilt > Nayru's
https://youtu.be/qQNO18f74DQ?t=1m46s
https://youtu.be/qQNO18f74DQ?t=9m12s

(And this is when Dtilt > Nayru's doesn't work at low%: https://youtu.be/qQNO18f74DQ?t=9m45s)

Xeldorno (almost - this is why I don't like following up with Dins):
https://youtu.be/qQNO18f74DQ?t=9m1s

 

[Mentor]

I like d-tilt, so I'll share some info on that & cause DI-ing 1 d-tilt yields nearly no reward unless it's a crouch cancel (in which case you're screwed)

Different characters go from being forced down to being forced up at different %s. I'm confident it's entirely based on character weight & the ranges are from about 60% (jiggs) to about 85% (dk, bowser). I'll focus on shiek for now.

Sheik begins being forced up at 73%, so from 40-73%, every non-smash ground move can be used on her, except A and f-tilt which don't start working until 60%. You can even grab her from 45-73%. If you're frame perfect, shiek has to do a frame perfect spot dodge from 45-60% ie from 60-73% u have a guaranteed grab w/ d-tilt from 60-73% (unless shiek CCs). From 73-90% your only good options are d-smash (the "duuuuuh" option), tech chase (my foolish but preferred option), or hard read a mis-tech w/ charged d-smash or f-smash (the "where u at" option). After 110%, every move combos from d-tilt, except full up-air (jazz hands aren't advised in this instance either). Basically, it's a great (but somewhat risky) option for if shiek is at above 110% and expecting a random fair/bair/grab, or if shiek is between 60-72%.

 

[Getsafe]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Dthrow into Dins > Uair is true at _most_ percents all characters (and most importantly it's swag af)

Can provide video if necessary

 

[Drsms]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Dthrow into Dins > Uair is true at _most_ percents all characters (and most importantly it's swag af)

Can provide video if necessary

It's necessary haha

 

[Getsafe]

this is not really something you're likely to be fishing for or intentionally setting up, but I find myself in this situation often enough to be a useful tool. Just be aware that this exists I guess
Uair is more reliable at lower %
Fair is more reliable at higher %
Nair is probably the best option if you're not in position to get a kill/edge guard setup from it or if they're at very low %

 

[Downdraft]

this is not really something you're likely to be fishing for or intentionally setting up, but I find myself in this situation often enough to be a useful tool. Just be aware that this exists I guess
Uair is more reliable at lower %
Fair is more reliable at higher %
Nair is probably the best option if you're not in position to get a kill/edge guard setup from it or if they're at very low %

It's requesting people to sign in to view the video.

 

[Getsafe]

It's requesting people to sign in to view the video.

Oops, my bad, should be fixed now

 

[WhiteCrow]

Oops, my bad, should be fixed now

If you want to know if it's a true combo or not you should try it/record it in training mode with the help on. Most throw setups into Din's>aerial are true combos. Not because Din's carry a lot of hit stun but because they carry enough to let Zelda move and act after her long animations. Down throw is great for Din setups because you can create DI traps with it and it's knock back is set. If you were a little further away from the Din when you grabbed the Lucario (maybe a dash grab's length) you could down throw and A) Punish DI in with a bair or B) punish them DIing out into the Din with a second bair.