Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Coney]

Coney it's actually really even in my experience, but every ZSS I've seen gets stomped their first couple times playing the matchup.

As for credentials, I played with Choice all summer. I've played AC's wolf a couple times. There are also quite a few lesser Wolf mains in norcal so I feel like I had a pretty good feel for the matchup. The matchup is tricky though and I can't really think of an easy way to explain it. Any specific questions?

nah, i obviously won't be using her for him when i main ddd. it's just that it felt gross and my crewmate, a zss, has expressed problems with the MU in the past

but thanks for the offer!

i'm looking at using zss as a novelty/semiCP character...she certainly has a better MU with MK than ddd does :<

if you guys care though here's a match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97TjcHEW9QE

a few things:

- i hate playing a character that gets gimped
- i usmash way too much when i try to do a quick uair
- i never use sideb which i guess is bad but it makes it a great kill move
- i HATE PLAYING A CHARACTER THAT GETS GIMPED
- i always lol when i catch people in dsmash because i panic and don't know what to do and just bair even though it's like stale times seven

tbh zero suit feels like cheating on my wife; i love ddd but his jab is slow, he HIMSELF is slow, and i can't have fun playing with items with him. obviously i'm still trying but don't take these matches too seriously, she's like my playground to do everything i want to do with ddd but can't.

but if there's anything i'm doing that's hilariously awful don't hesitate to tell me

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

LOL Coney..I know exactly how you feel and I've been having a great time with Zamus also. LOL I find it really funny you made it here also. Better keep this a secret from the other D3s though

I do think I'm starting to get the hang of her but I still have many questions.

My questions for now:

Are there viable situations where Up-Smash is a better anti-air option than Up-air?

When is it okay to F-Smash (if such a scenario exists)?

How does Zamus do against Olimar? (Its like impossible for me to beat L_Cancel using my current characters)

What are the sexy lady's best Counterpick stages?

 

[Coney]

lmfao oh yeah forgot to mention

i sometimes charge an fsmash if i think someone is going to spotdodge

why? i have no ****ing clue

 

[Zero]

Are there viable situations where Up-Smash is a better anti-air option than Up-air?

Meaty punish to a landing on a platform, or Sonic dair (it's just easier to time the usmash);

When is it okay to F-Smash (if such a scenario exists)?

NEVER. (unless you catch an airdodge into you at like 150%, just charge it and it'll probably kill)

How does Zamus do against Olimar? (Its like impossible for me to beat L_Cancel using my current characters)

Apparently 6:4, I have no exp though.

What are the sexy lady's best Counterpick stages?

BRINSTOR

 

[FEAR977]

Why is Brinstar good for zss?

 

[Light-Kratos]

Well I think her kill potential is just a **** there, she can trick people with lava, shark under stage and still recover safely.
I suck with that chick thought, so please correct me if I'm wrong .
Btw, thanks for your answer NickRiddle .

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So when is Dash attack > Up-Tilt generally guaranteed? Are there any other steups from Dash attack?

Also I can't really find many uses for Fair other than using it out of D-Smash. It just seems..straightforward lol

 

[Coney]

from what i've experienced fair is good offstage or as a surprise fastfall attack, aiming to connect with the second hit...her other aerials are better on-stage though

zss', i am never, ever using sideb

should i use it more? i always remember to use it when the opponent's in kill range, which i guess is a good idea since by then it's fresh and is a fantastic kill move, but you guys would've considered that...is there a reason to use it over and over until stale? i remember hearing it was her main spacing move but she seems good enough at spacing without it...

 

[Dakpo]

I depends on the type of play style you want to use. I personally use bair at the start of a stock then save it so it kills nice and low at the end (spamming Side all the Way) But if you prefer Side B to Kill People Go for it. Its just a lot harder to land and can outspace so many people.

Edit: also i watched your video and i can see the natural style of your zss fitting right in. Just what the back rolling. Its not near as good as DDD's

 

[Nefarious B]

from what i've experienced fair is good offstage or as a surprise fastfall attack, aiming to connect with the second hit...her other aerials are better on-stage though

zss', i am never, ever using sideb

should i use it more? i always remember to use it when the opponent's in kill range, which i guess is a good idea since by then it's fresh and is a fantastic kill move, but you guys would've considered that...is there a reason to use it over and over until stale? i remember hearing it was her main spacing move but she seems good enough at spacing without it...

I think of it kind of like MK's tornado, in that some opponents will have no idea how to handle it. On those people, it gives you a really easy win.

It also is really good at edgeguarding people imo, because no one has attacks that can outrange so if you space to hit them they are forced to airdodge offstage which is obviously bad, and then it frame traps them so you can aerial as they come out of the invincibility.

It is a good poke, there are only a few characters that can really punish you for spamming it. It takes a fat chunk out of their shield which lets your bair poke a shield very reliably.

It's also a good option when you're holding suitpieces

 

[Nefarious B]

My questions for now:

Are there viable situations where Up-Smash is a better anti-air option than Up-air?

So many hits that it will usually poke someone shielding on a platform. It's good for really obvious dairs like sonics, GaWs, as well as for powering through things like olimars down b

When is it okay to F-Smash (if such a scenario exists)?

When you're in troll mode

How does Zamus do against Olimar? (Its like impossible for me to beat L_Cancel using my current characters)

45:55 IMO, catch me on IRC if you want to talk about it cause I am not about to type that **** out for the zillionth time lol

What are the sexy lady's best Counterpick stages?

Totally matchup dependent

 

[Z1GMA]

About Fair..
When someone's standing on the top platform of BF,
and you're on either sides of the Base Platform,
run + rising fulhop Fair is awesome.

It hits them with the 2'nd kick if they're still on the top platform,
and it hits them with the 1'st kick if they just ledge dropped.
So you can't get Ledge Drop Attacked thx to your 1'st kick covering it up.

This is more useful that it seems.
None of her other aerials covers a potential Ledge Drop as good as fullhop Fair.

 

[Coney]

It's also a good option when you're holding suitpieces

wow really? why? :O

Edit: also i watched your video and i can see the natural style of your zss fitting right in. Just what the back rolling. Its not near as good as DDD's

lmfao wow i'm shocked you noticed, good eye

that's one of my biggest problems, i'm back rolling way too much with zss...i got out of most of my habits but that's one that remains

 

[Dakpo]

lmfao wow i'm shocked you noticed, good eye

that's one of my biggest problems, i'm back rolling way too much with zss...i got out of most of my habits but that's one that remains

Thanks , I have been training everyone in my area and rolling is the biggest habit I see in them. I guess I'm just used to looking for roll roll habits.

 

[Nefarious B]

wow really? why? :O

Suitpieces are a presence, they force people to play a certain way just because you are holding them. The ways that people generally try and deal with the pieces are (IME): shield, holding an attack to clank and cancel the piece, jumping, or dodging/rolling.

Dodging and rolling get absolutely ***** by pieces. You can throw them on reaction very easily upon seeing either.

Jumping for most characters is a terrible idea against the pieces, you can dthrow them to create walls of priority that will force airdodges, making for easy juggles.

Shield and trying to cancel the pieces are the best options against them. Suitpieces travel fast enough that I don't really think you can powershield them on reaction, so people will generally be holding shield. Side b is **** on normal shields, and it will also outrange any attack an opponent tries to cancel the pieces with

Basically, you're in power when you have the piece in your hand, side b forces a reaction out of them which you can then punish

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Suitpieces travel fast enough that I don't really think you can powershield them on reaction, so people will generally be holding shield.

This is the only part of your statement I dont entirely agree with. I would consider myself to have average reaction time and Ive never really had a problem PSing the pieces if I were in a stationary position. Now if you're being pressured though thats a different story. I often times use a mix of the Plasma Whip and two pieces for a lot of characters. I like using one piece as a distraction of sorts, the other as the one I want to **** you up with and the whip for pressure. It works out well for me. And yes the sheer threat of them (same concept of ICs infinite) makes people play differently..which is exploitable

 

[FEAR977]

What would you say is the best approach on fox?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Crawl under his sideB and cancel his lasers with ur jab

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Don't fear the lasers. Seriously I see so many people **** up in this MU because theyre so scurred about taking laser damage. Its gonna happen. You gotta rush the *****.

Oh and who knows stuff about how to team with a Snake?

 

[Sharky]

does tethering the ledge without snapping count as a ledge grab?

 

[Dakpo]

yes, it does ^

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Hey guys. Ive got a crew battle on Saturday and i'm going ZSS for sure. I'm up against Wario/IC who i have bad past experiences with. I've read the matchup alot, do you guys have advice? Obviously don't get grabbed (IC) but i need tips for wario without a doubt.

Like, not frame data and stuff i'm looking for stretegic help.
I'm up against Wario, MK, IC. and two characters i know how to fight well (Pit/Snake).

Any tips would be great.
Thanks team!
-Mink

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I played Lain's IC's this weekend in tourney and I learned:

You absolutely need platforms in this MU. I mean they will try to Up-Air you but if you can totally punish it if you know its coming. Once you get that first Up-air off its so easy to get nana off the stage. Just focus on getting her in the air above all things. Popo really doesn't have any tools to chase ZSS in the air once she's started. I think we dominate them in the air personally but I'm new so don't take my word on it.I play very safe on the ground vs ICs and you pretty much have to. Plasma Whip helps a great deal and can hit Nana sometimes if they shield it too late. Play retardedly safe but when you get Nana in a bad situation..hunt her down lol

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

So basically don't approach? Just out camp? lol. What do i do in response to Neutral B (icebergs) and other such attacks.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Shield or jump over it?
Other such attacks? lol

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

What do you guys think about Hyphen Up Smash. It seems like its easier to sweetspot it like that. I also like that every hit counts on the attack refresh queue. I tried using it out it sheild but frame 8 and the fact that the move doesn't quite sweetspot if the opponent is say..in U-Tilt range. But I like using this move as a mix up sometimes so I can build up to refreshing my Up-air or Bair since its like 8 or more hits if you get it right.

Oh and against Ice desynch Ice Blocks I either wait for an opening to use Plasma Whip or just move to a platform so that they have to chase you. It worked for me. I mean you can get hit with an Ice Block but if you hit even one ICs with the whip..thats like 12-18% (you'll be using this move a lot in this MU) and they go flying..you dont.

 

[Nefarious B]

What do you guys think about Hyphen Up Smash. It seems like its easier to sweetspot it like that. I also like that every hit counts on the attack refresh queue. I tried using it out it sheild but frame 8 and the fact that the move doesn't quite sweetspot if the opponent is say..in U-Tilt range. But I like using this move as a mix up sometimes so I can build up to refreshing my Up-air or Bair since its like 8 or more hits if you get it right.

Hyphen is just running usmash right? I need to look into it more, I think it could be useful to poke shields depending on how many hits are low enough to hit a standing opponent. However it's pretty bad if you whiff, which makes it very limited in utility

Frame 8 is actually very good OOS, that's how fast MK's nair and shuttle loop are, and it's also the fastest attack we have OOS. That being said, its hitbox is kinda awkward.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't refresh that many times either, it's probably just one time for the entire move. Attacks that chain that quickly together like jab infinites count for one stale move, otherwise it'd go from doing 12 damage to like 5 after hitting once

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I read somewhere here that the hits refresh but I'm just going by what I've read (hence the reason I'm asking questions) thus far. I guess I'm just using to slightly faster moves out of shield from Snake. But I have had some luck using it as a shield poke also. I can see it feasible with ZSS's ability to poke people and her quick ground attack game. It just seems like the spreading hitboxes work best when you Hyphen Smash rather than just use plainly Up-Smashing. I tried using it like that and the first hitbox that hit from that distance hits much later than when you Hyphen it and doesn't hit it into the latter hitboxes.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Approaching with Usmash is actually pretty lulzy, Zelda's do it and it works for them, it should semi-work for us too, lol.

 

[-LzR-]

I hate glitched threads!

 

[Nefarious B]

I read somewhere here that the hits refresh but I'm just going by what I've read (hence the reason I'm asking questions) thus far. I guess I'm just using to slightly faster moves out of shield from Snake. But I have had some luck using it as a shield poke also. I can see it feasible with ZSS's ability to poke people and her quick ground attack game. It just seems like the spreading hitboxes work best when you Hyphen Smash rather than just use plainly Up-Smashing. I tried using it like that and the first hitbox that hit from that distance hits much later than when you Hyphen it and doesn't hit it into the latter hitboxes.

The only move Snake has out of shield frame 8 is grab, and I guess technically shield drop pull a nade. Ftilt is 11 frames, to put this all into perspective.

The problem with usmash OOS is that it if you get crossed over you're ****ed, or if they spaced outside its range (which they should be doing because it doesn't have great range) you're ****ed. I can see it being useful in a few situations though. I know MKs like to glide attack us because without a grab it frame traps us really well. You could use Usmash to punish

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

It's all situational but I just want to explore all my options. Thanks for the advice. I'll probably have a million more questions.

 

[Hist]

Hey, I second Zero Suit Samus whenever my opponents use 35-65 or lower match ups against my main , Ike.
My question is, is it better to have tap jump on for ZSS it seems to help make quick up-airs that are close to the ground more land-able.
Also, good stages for ZSS.
Please and thank you.

 

[Deathfox30]

Hey, I second Zero Suit Samus whenever my opponents use 35-65 or lower match ups against my main , Ike.
My question is, is it better to have tap jump on for ZSS it seems to help make quick up-airs that are close to the ground more land-able.
Also, good stages for ZSS.
Please and thank you.

Tap jump is about preference. It doesn't really benefit ZSS much, especially since she isn't going to be U smashing or ^Bing OoS much. It makes meteor canceling easy, but it's already really easy.

As for Uair, you'd be better off learning to buffer it. It hits A LOT lower than a normal rising Uair and can be done without Tap Jump.

As for stages, they're kind of Match Up specific and what you're comfortable with.

 

[Nefarious B]

I prefer up b off only because when recovering or juggling there are a lot of situations where you don't want an accidental boost jump

 

[-LzR-]

So I played quite a lot with my ZSS against a Wario. How the hell do you guys kill with her?
All of her moves appear to be quite slow or impractical for killing.

 

[Zero]

Be patient.

Downsmash.

GR > Fair works well since it's almost always fresh.

 

[NickRiddle]

Be patient.

Downsmash.

GR > Fair works well since it's almost always fresh.

SDI that fair *****!


Just hit him until he dies. Pretend you're playing Peach.
Don't look for kill moves. One of your moves will kill eventually.

 

[Z1GMA]

So I played quite a lot with my ZSS against a Wario. How the hell do you guys kill with her?
All of her moves appear to be quite slow or impractical for killing.

I had the same problem with Wario when I first started using ZSS.

Get him off stage, wait for him to airdodge, Bair.

Or GR -> Uair -> Bair (Try refreshing them with pummeling / Jabs)

Side+B... Again: (Try refreshing it with pummeling / Jabs)

Of course, don't brainlessly try to grab him just to get the pummeling on him.

 

[FEAR977]

Is Oos up tilt useful, if so how do you do it?