Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[VSC.D-Torr]

D-tizzle.

don't do me like that.

No you have me mistaken. I'm not hating the game in general.

I'm hating how defense overwhelmingly beats offense in this game. Applying pressure of any sort is putting yourself in danger where as other games it's not like that.

>sucks at game
>mocks it

I suck at this game?

 

[BioDG]

I'm good vs olimar.

But i ****ing

hate.

falco.

I have it the opposite. :[

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I suck at this game?

You're probably beyond terrible.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

You're probably beyond terrible.

You think so? That's unfortunate. I wonder what that says about all the players I've ever beaten.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

accidental dbl post

 

[NickRiddle]

Ramses so mean.

 

[DUB]

General tips vs. Olimar?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Jab.

 

[DeLux]

After playing Fino for like a dozen friendlies last night, we determined that all of Olimar's animations duck under grab for some reason whether or not it's intentional lol

 

[DUB]

Jab.

Full combo is guranteed on Oli right?

A more specific one I guess. How do I get Oli in the air? From the neutral position what are some good approach tactics to getting in on Oli? With most characters I have played in this matchup, I grab vs. oli alot because its extremely good at putting him into an unfavorable position and beating shields. But ZSS's grab is a lot more risky. Does dashgrab/grab have longer range then his grab range? I'd like to say yes but maybe just a little.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Run in and grab. Oli's like to Pgrab or to Try to OOS.

Grab is good mix up.
Don't nair.
landing dtilt.

 

[infiniteV115]

If you can predict the Olimar's jumping Pikmin Toss, run under him and usmash.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You should feeling out the Olimar's anti approach game by dashing at him, and planning to run past him.

Some Olimars shield (especially when you're at kill percent), hope for a DA and usmash.
Others spotdodge.
Others dash away and pivot grab.

Those are the three main anti approach thingies that Olimars do. All can be countered by just dashing past him.

Make sure to not play a noob though.

 

[BioDG]

I've realized I have gotten by in this game without too much of offensive tactics (I know the game is a defensive one, but it still seems to be an issue). I usually don't go aggro until I know I have the momentum (partially due to playstyle and the fact that ZSS isn't the greatest at close range). So once I encounter players who can consistently get around my zoning tactics, I have a lot of trouble taking the offensive. I know this is an odd question but: what do you guys generally do with zss if you have to make something happen offensively when you don't have the momentum and your zoning hasn't been working?

After playing Fino for like a dozen friendlies last night, we determined that all of Olimar's animations duck under grab for some reason whether or not it's intentional lol

And yet, using grab as a mix-up (as stated by Mink) is still viable?

What about onstage Olimar when zss is on the ledge? I feel as though he covers so many options with little effort. Or it might just be my lack of understanding.


Another thing that has confused me with this MU is that I was once told shooting paralyzer often disrupts him pretty good, and then told later that you shouldn't be camping him. Some reason I have a hard time "understanding" Olimar's strengths/weaknesses on the ground (other than why you shouldn't be above him and how purples **** zss). I think I'll have to pick him up for things to click.

 

[DeLux]

it's probably I don't understand the grab hitbox that well more so than that actually happening.

But I swear that everytime I tried to punish him either Pikmin Tossing on landing or any other laggy aerial, the grab would go over him lol

 

[.EXE]

Ok if anything I have had trouble with olimar in the past but not so much now. All I can say is that they are at a really high level of player skill then watch out!

Other than that what I do is mix it up!

Remember olimar can be gimped hard so spacing and timing is key also do not forget the grab release. Things I watch out for when playing olimar are his grabs and purple pikmin, and in my honest opinion the purple will **** you the most it's what I lose to the most when I reflect on matches, otherwise when I think about it I can only relate olimar to peach and her grab that can't kill. I take my time and if I can kill a purple one I will though it sounds stupid to do so I just do it anyways because going in then getting hit back due to purple throws my game off.

Ok so one key thing is to watch his jumps if he jumps twice just to throw pikmin it's too risky for him run and get over there D smash immediately if you can laser or whatever your choice.

Next stay out of his grab range at some points I allow pikmin to land on me just because some like to camp/throw way too much and I'll just walk over there to them. By this time and it depends on the player they will try to grab you or attack but if you are cautious enough hopefully you have stayed out of their grab range when you get there. Finally I have not tested this but I think after each grab attempt his pikmin become free and are able to be damaged, so if you are D smashing you are killing pikmin in 2 hits. Also the thing here is that the hit box has great range so I'd say you run a 50/50 chance of getting a stunned olimar or him grabbing Zss imo it's more in favor to Zss. Forgot to mention that you should be killing the pikmin because in most cases you've hit them off of you once with some sort of attack.

As for her armor pieces practice with them they usually stop mid air once they hit the pikmin so be careful when rushing in don't go in too quick and reckless like I do.

Finally if I am incorrect then correct me if you want to but I have used these tactics against some olimars and have done well with them to the point he now seems like a joke more than anything. I know I'm not as good as most players and may have not played the best olimars but it's given me help against that short piece of crap though I love him still.

 

[Dnyce]

Lol at olimar talk

 

[light-zion]

How does Salem change his aerial momentum from left to right (immediately before charging up her stun gun)?

 

[Zero]

Wavebouncing

 

[light-zion]

How do you wave bounce with zero suit samus???

 

[BioDG]

After playing a bunch of offline Olimar friendlies, I have to say this advice has helped greatly. I think all I have left to do is play him closer because my DAs don't get past him nor do my grabs reach him if he ran/fox-trotted away from me around the same time I dash-grabbed.

But then there's the times when I dead-zone miss. Do you guys know the general distance away from the opponent that causes this? I know where it is on the hit-bubbles (around the middle of the whip), but knowing when it "hits" the character during a dash grab is more difficult for me to notice. If all else fails, I'll see if I can figure it out in training mode.

 

[dettadeus]

Are there any characters that you usually want to keep a suit piece or two against?

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm assuming you mean only a piece or two. I don't think you should ever throw off all your items against any character.

Some people like to throw off 1 or 2 against characters with reflectors. I think it's very player dependent, and up to personal preference.
Obviously, throw them off if you know your opponent can handle items better than you. This may apply to people that main characters like Diddy, ROB and Peach.

 

[NickRiddle]

Item usage is 100% player based.
Better with items than your opponent?
Keep them.
Opponent better than you with items?
Keep 1.

 

[Tesh]

can you platform cancel out of a flipstool (down b footstool)?

 

[.EXE]

After playing a bunch of offline Olimar friendlies, I have to say this advice has helped greatly. I think all I have left to do is play him closer because my DAs don't get past him nor do my grabs reach him if he ran/fox-trotted away from me around the same time I dash-grabbed.

But then there's the times when I dead-zone miss. Do you guys know the general distance away from the opponent that causes this? I know where it is on the hit-bubbles (around the middle of the whip), but knowing when it "hits" the character during a dash grab is more difficult for me to notice. If all else fails, I'll see if I can figure it out in training mode.

Oh wow now I know who this is! You are Bio, Bio, BIO, BIO!

Yeah what is wavebouncing I hear about it but probably have never seen it

 

[infiniteV115]

exe, wavebouncing is what we were practicing on Brinstar at that small tourney at A&C. The thing where you change your momentum and/or turn around when doing a B-move (we were doing it with lasers)

Edit: For specificity
Turn-around B - When you change the direction of your special but don't change your momentum. eg If I run right and I jump while facing right, then shoot left while still moving right.
Inputs: Press left, then press B immediately afterwards.

B-reversal - When you change the direction of your special AND change your momentum. eg If I run right and I jump while facing right, then shoot left and start moving left.
Inputs: Press B, then press left immediately afterwards.

Wavebounce - When you don't change the direction of your special, but you change your momentum. eg If I run right and I jump while facing right, then shoot right and start moving left.

Inputs: Press left, then press B immediately afterwards, then press right immediately after pressing B.


...This would be a lot easier to understand if put in video form. Maybe I'll show you at SiD6.
A wavebounce is just a combination of a turnaround-B and a B-reversal, btw.

 

[Dakpo]

I changed my controls so i can do it really easily

 

[DeLux]

Shoulder Button C Bouncing?

 

[Cygnet]

.....What kind of controls are you using?

Also, I noticed that wavebouncing while moving forwards seems really ineffective for me because (assume I'm facing and moving right) pressing left slows me down and so I'll already have lost a lot of the momentum that would've changed during the wavebounce. (Doing it facing backwards is nice though.)

But I know that I've seen people wavebounce while moving forwards in videos and they don't totally lose their momentum.... how do they do it?

 

[Dakpo]

i have z set to special (becuase i grab with Y)
All i have to is lean forward on the control stick and press back on the C stick and z (special) to do it

 

[DeLux]

But can you do it with neutral specials?

 

[Dakpo]

Shoulder Button C Bouncing?

editing your posts I see >_>

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I want ya'll to know the main reason i beat B_Awal (sonic) yesterday, was because i remembered how good Paralyzer is against him from our MU discussion about sonic.

<3

 

[DeLux]

editing your posts I see >_>

I didn't edit my post...

You can't Ninja edit anymore

I just assumed that's what you did lol

 

[Dakpo]

I want ya'll to know the main reason i beat B_Awal (sonic) yesterday, was because i remembered how good Paralyzer is against him from our MU discussion about sonic.

<3

your welcome

and I manually do the Neutral wavebounce, if I ever even do it

 

[Tesh]

can you platform cancel out of a flipstool (down b footstool)?

Come on, I know you smart ZSS people know the answer to this question.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't know for sure but I would say yes, cause I already know she can platform cancel out of ledgehops and the trajectory she gets sent at when DDD spits her out (lol)

 

[NickRiddle]

Any upward movement that allows an air-dodge can be platform-canceled.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Dakpo]

yes you can