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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers
- Thread starter phanna
- Start date
Snakeee
Smash Master
Yes, and no. That can work, but it seems harder to catch someone with that mostly because they DI out of the last hit more in that situation. If you're going to try to tech chase, I'd say go for a grab, up smash, or even just dash attack
I've noticed you've said this a lot. My question is, what's the point of this? You get like, 2% on them.
jibbyjaont
Smash Journeyman
2% means everything to us.
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
I know nothing about ZSS
Why is ZSS in a pretty low tier though her matchup with the top tier chars are equal or at slight advantage?
Why is ZSS in a pretty low tier though her matchup with the top tier chars are equal or at slight advantage?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Does character popularity factor into the tier list?
I'm just asking, because I don't know for sure. I also don't agree with tier lists because I don't think they often tell the whole story. The game is just a huge web of matchups. So what if everyone has a 40:60 against Meta Knight? He's no harder than any other 40:60 and we go up against those all the time.
With that said, the good tournament results from ZSS mains combined with an overall solid lineup of match-ups, the new ROB infinite, the chain grabs, and a subtle increase in ZSS' popularity are the ingredients for a ZSS-goes-up-5-more-spots cocktail. I just don't think that in the end, those spots are worth anything unless you derive pleasure from seeing DeliciousCake smack down noobs that ask dumb questions in new threads. I guarantee that if ZSS cracks the top 10 like I think she could, we'll be seeing a lot of that.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
That's hard to answer, on one hand, it factors in tournament data, and you could argue that tournament data is in large part affected by a users popularity.
And Metaknight is high in the tier list not because of **** matchups, as Dededee is, but because of having no bad matchups. This gives him the ability to breeze through a tournament with out many head aches. However, that may soon change, as Diddy has found a new lock, and Falco found something else (can't remember what).
And Metaknight is high in the tier list not because of **** matchups, as Dededee is, but because of having no bad matchups. This gives him the ability to breeze through a tournament with out many head aches. However, that may soon change, as Diddy has found a new lock, and Falco found something else (can't remember what).
How I wish this were the case....
*kicks stupid 20:80 Link matchup*
Another reason to love ZSS though ^_^
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Was speaking a little too generally, sorry.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Breaks out the whipping stick.I just don't think that in the end, those spots are worth anything unless you derive pleasure from seeing DeliciousCake smack down noobs that ask dumb questions in new threads. I guarantee that if ZSS cracks the top 10 like I think she could, we'll be seeing a lot of that.
jibbyjaont
Smash Journeyman
Breaks out the whipping whip.
Ah, thanks for that! Much appreciated!
I dunno. I kinda look at ZSS as being very much like the Falcon of Brawl. Not so much in her moveset, but that it takes a lot of time, smarts, and dedication to really learn her. When you've learned her, however, she's a powerful weapon. She's also a really streaky character, and if you can't establish a tempo that suits you in a match, it'll be really tough.With that said, the good tournament results from ZSS mains combined with an overall solid lineup of match-ups, the new ROB infinite, the chain grabs, and a subtle increase in ZSS' popularity are the ingredients for a ZSS-goes-up-5-more-spots cocktail. I just don't think that in the end, those spots are worth anything unless you derive pleasure from seeing DeliciousCake smack down noobs that ask dumb questions in new threads. I guarantee that if ZSS cracks the top 10 like I think she could, we'll be seeing a lot of that.
All in all, I can really only see her being well-represented by a few people. I think she'll get more popular, but her tier placement will be due more to good people being able to do well with her than to the fact that she's an easy win (because she's not).
noradseven
Smash Lord
I think ZSS is the Anji of brawl, mostly straight slightly bad matchups really hard to learn how to play well, but tournament viable once you do so.
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
sorry, ignore this post
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
During hitstun
When trying to DI and momentum cancel, first you do your proper DI then uair and if you then do a quick down-B does it cancel all of your momentum from hitstun like GW's bucket does?
When trying to DI and momentum cancel, first you do your proper DI then uair and if you then do a quick down-B does it cancel all of your momentum from hitstun like GW's bucket does?
noradseven
Smash Lord
I couldn't get it too work, plus if you used your down B and are far away you are pretty much dead.
Adapt
Smash Lord
it has a small effect, but it's only a few percent sideways (Not upwards, it can kill you earlier upwards)
You are normally better off to save it like sasook said
You are normally better off to save it like sasook said
hdrevolution123
Smash Ace
I know. I was just asking. I knew it's more disadvantageous than beneficial
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229508
It doesn't deserve it's own thread, but ZSS can Weak Glide Toss as described in this thread.
The item doesn't move as far. There aren't many uses for this because she can't catch the item after throwing it like the other item-creating characters can, but it's good to know anyway.
It doesn't deserve it's own thread, but ZSS can Weak Glide Toss as described in this thread.
The item doesn't move as far. There aren't many uses for this because she can't catch the item after throwing it like the other item-creating characters can, but it's good to know anyway.
Xiahou Dun
Smash Ace
Simple question. When I've been knocked a hell of a long way away from the stage is my best bet to use the Jump followed by the Down B or the Down B followed by the jump? I had been going with option 1 hoping for the flipstool to ease recovery attempts but it seems the long lag after Down B during which I can't tether is killing me more then the flipstool is saving me.
And generally any non-obvious recovery tips at all would be nice. :/
And generally any non-obvious recovery tips at all would be nice. :/
Airgemini
Chansey
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After you jump you should Up B instead of Down B, you'll get a pretty nice verticlal boost.
I would personally depending on where I am try to DI as close to the stage as I can, then use jump+Up B and hope that gets me to the stage. If it doesn't then I'll Down B.
Imo, if you waste your Down B too early before you reach the stage, it makes you more vulnerable to ledge hogs since her Up B doesnt give any kind of horizontal or vertical boost (unless combined with Up B). With Down B you can footstool characters grabbing the ledge, or attack/spike them with the kick. But ZSS has a pretty nice set of options to recover with, so don't take my word as 'THE' thing to do.
I would personally depending on where I am try to DI as close to the stage as I can, then use jump+Up B and hope that gets me to the stage. If it doesn't then I'll Down B.
Imo, if you waste your Down B too early before you reach the stage, it makes you more vulnerable to ledge hogs since her Up B doesnt give any kind of horizontal or vertical boost (unless combined with Up B). With Down B you can footstool characters grabbing the ledge, or attack/spike them with the kick. But ZSS has a pretty nice set of options to recover with, so don't take my word as 'THE' thing to do.
CRASHiC
Smash Hero
Can some reasearch something I was messing around with?
Piviot walk Ftilt lock.
You set the opponent up for the lock, Ftilt, piviotwalk (metaknight goes to far to walk in time) ftilt, repeat.
Piviot walk Ftilt lock.
You set the opponent up for the lock, Ftilt, piviotwalk (metaknight goes to far to walk in time) ftilt, repeat.
I actually did some testing, and if you're DIing properly, you don't want to jump or down b, because both will give you way too much of a vertical boost and send you flying off the top.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Correct. I usually just spam uair until it comes out, hit it once or twice and then fast fall.
Xiahou Dun
Smash Ace
You've got the wrong idea. I'm talking after Ive stopped my launch and now I'm trying to use my jump, Down B and Up B to get back to the stage to recover.
Snakeee
Smash Master
If you're going more horizontally though, it seems to be pretty useful. I'm not sure about jumping, but it looks like that might help too. If it does as much as Down B, then that would be the better option. Down B is best saved for last
noradseven
Smash Lord
I u-air with C-stick Ding down while u-airing pro strat
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Here's a question for you (have a feeling I'm going to feel stupid...):
Is it known (or well-known) that you can can cancel the last few frames of a foxtrot by buffering a crouch? So you can foxtrot->crouch->jab? You can also foxtrot->crouch->dsmash which I've started to use a lot.
EDIT: You know, ZSS has IASA frames on a lot of things people don't talk about much...
Is it known (or well-known) that you can can cancel the last few frames of a foxtrot by buffering a crouch? So you can foxtrot->crouch->jab? You can also foxtrot->crouch->dsmash which I've started to use a lot.
EDIT: You know, ZSS has IASA frames on a lot of things people don't talk about much...
My testing showed that Down B, especially with kicking towards the stage, is more useful than jump, and in fact jumping sends you off the top sooner than Flip Jump.
Note that Flip Jump does in fact boost your kb momentum, but you only see it happening in the upwards direction because the Flip Jump significantly counteracts its own lateral momentum boost. This means that Flip Jump is only used when knocked significantly more to the side than up. But be aware that after this, you only have your second jump and your tethers, so this is a very risky maneuver. Use caution.
jibbyjaont
Smash Journeyman
So using the kick in the flip jump helps?
A little bit. Maybe a percent difference, depending on how far you are from the kill zone. It's kinda 50/50.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
I think saving the down-b / jump is a match-up thing.
If you're worried about someone running off and edge-guarding, I would save the down-b. You can use the down-b's invincibility frames to avoid any attacks off the edge and still move to avoid anything else they've got coming.
However, if you're looking at characters that like to predict landings or just edgehog in general, I would save the jump. It's a lot easier to knock someone off the edge when you can control your character through the jumping motion. Also, if you are landing on stage, you have more control on where you land.
If you're worried about someone running off and edge-guarding, I would save the down-b. You can use the down-b's invincibility frames to avoid any attacks off the edge and still move to avoid anything else they've got coming.
However, if you're looking at characters that like to predict landings or just edgehog in general, I would save the jump. It's a lot easier to knock someone off the edge when you can control your character through the jumping motion. Also, if you are landing on stage, you have more control on where you land.
*shrug* when someone's edgehogging, I prefer to use a Flipstool if I can. I really try not to Flip Jump onstage unless my opponent is off stage. And if they're on stage, and not too close to the ledge, I just tether. Generally, waiting for the momentum to die down, then using a second jump has been enough to get me comfortably in range of either one. And if I stick the DI, then I don't really need to use either.
Jupz
Smash Master
from snakeee's thread
Snakeee
Smash Master
Hmm I must not have seen that one sorry. I'd mix it up with playing wifi and playing the CPU. You should play the CPU after a session just to be comfortable with the normal gameplay. Usually bad habits develop from wifi, but some people have proven that if you're smart enough you can adjust rather easilyfrom snakeee's thread
Jupz
Smash Master
Ok, thanks snakee. It was a new post so don't worry, thanks for the help