Zero Suit Video Thread and Analysis

[David Viran]

I'm actually suprised that he said he is getting her tournament ready.

On another note I just realized that choco is considered one of the best in the world right now. I knew he was like the pioneer of her nair. He was in another tournament yesterday and lost to edge in the grand finals. Man he wanted the grab too much on his last stock. He whiffed 3 grabs in one stock more than he whiffed the entire tournament and probably lost because of that. Here's a link to that match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jI1msvdTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jI1msvdTU

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I'm actually suprised that he said he is getting her tournament ready.

On another note I just realized that choco is considered one of the best in the world right now. I knew he was like the pioneer of her nair. He was in another tournament yesterday and lost to edge in the grand finals. Man he wanted the grab too much on his last stock. He whiffed 3 grabs in one stock more than he whiffed the entire tournament and probably lost because of that. Here's a link to that match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jI1msvdTU

Crazy matches. I've never seen the up b from ledge move from diddy before, funny stuff.

 

[extremechiton]

ive recently uploaded some zss for glory matches, but the lag was terrible and i wasnt able to play my best because of it.
but perhaps i can show you some of the matches that were the most bearable to watch, (and play as)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xt8g-fAU3I&list=UU_f9e1YCDagJvuOV9_h1T_A

this is actually my friend playing zss, but he is also good with her. he tends to emulate my playstyle evertime he goes zero suit. it will be more evident in the ditto matches that i will upload later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLFylyeqcXY&list=UU_f9e1YCDagJvuOV9_h1T_A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlT4Mw-eAuQ&list=UU_f9e1YCDagJvuOV9_h1T_A

still not going zero suit, but the same friend is. and you can forget about the part where we derp around during the middle of the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckkfIZsdRo&list=UU_f9e1YCDagJvuOV9_h1T_A

my zss ditto with my friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrHbPt5rml0&list=UU_f9e1YCDagJvuOV9_h1T_A

 

[Conda]

ZSS vs Gunner, cool rare match-up

 

[Conda]

Zero Suit Samus vs Zero Suit Samus. One is a ZSS main, the other is a multi-character main. Interesting how differently they play her.

 

[check_mate]

Sup ZSS smashers! I'm new to ZSS and would appreciate it if I could get some advice based on my gameplay in the video below. A time stamp analysis would be super helpful, although answering the questions below would be great too!

• What kinds of things am I not doing that I should be doing as ZSS?
• What aspect(s) of my game play needs improvement?
• How do you suggest improving that/those aspect(s)?

Sorry for the poor quality vid w/o audio; was recording on a phone.

 

[KingBroly]

Is Link a bad matchup for ZSS in this game? I didn't really have a problem against Link in Brawl with ZSS, but here it seems like a lot of simultaneous attacks lead to both characters taking damage. My Lv. 50 Link amiibo destroys me as well (yes, I know amiibos hit harder, but this is the first time I've had serious trouble against one.) Maybe I don't know the matchup that well, but it seems rather tough (for me at least) after a few dozen matches.

 

[extremechiton]

Sup ZSS smashers! I'm new to ZSS and would appreciate it if I could get some advice based on my gameplay in the video below. A time stamp analysis would be super helpful, although answering the questions below would be great too!

• What kinds of things am I not doing that I should be doing as ZSS?
• What aspect(s) of my game play needs improvement?
• How do you suggest improving that/those aspect(s)?

Sorry for the poor quality vid w/o audio; was recording on a phone.

1 problem i see is your fishing for strait grabs. sometimes an uncharged paralyzer shot leaves you in cool down for just long enough for your opponent to escape before being grabbed. and btw, if you do the paralyzer to grab, do a dash grab so you whip will actually reach your opponent.

a fully charged paralyzer shot is sometimes better for getting the grab since it stuns longer. try b-reverse paralyzer into grab.
(if you dont know how to be reverse, then when moving forward in the air, press b and immediately press your control stick in the opposite direction your facing. if done correctly zss will reverse her direction and start moving in the direction you just indicated)

a couple of things you could be doing is short hop nair to space a round
and to apply pressure at a distance, short hop zair can keep your opponent at bay.

also standing paralyzer isnt really a good idea. your motionless and shiek could easily punish the ending lag with a short hop fair or bouncing fish.
(and just a tidbit, since grab takes a short while to come out, try down tilting after an uncharged paralyzer at close range and low percents, or f tilt or even strait up f smash)

another good tool is side b. the plasma whip has a lot of good knockback (but low ko power) so its good for spacing and getting opponents away from you.

this is all i have for now, maybe someone else will provide another perspective.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Is Link a bad matchup for ZSS in this game? I didn't really have a problem against Link in Brawl with ZSS, but here it seems like a lot of simultaneous attacks lead to both characters taking damage. My Lv. 50 Link amiibo destroys me as well (yes, I know amiibos hit harder, but this is the first time I've had serious trouble against one.) Maybe I don't know the matchup that well, but it seems rather tough (for me at least) after a few dozen matches.

It's hard if you are too aggressive.
Power
Shield
Everything
Try to reach him just like the terminator would and punish everything laggy.
If they get predictable with their projectile spam you can punish with down b.
He has a lot of landing lag on many moves, especially on his killmoves. Try to abuse that.

 

[Conda]

Jigglypuff vs Zero Suit Samus match I commentated:

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Jigglypuff vs Zero Suit Samus match I commentated:

This video made me aggro. Back off Jiggy! No one likes you!
Impressive Jiggs.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Some I have found:
-down throw into up b or for fair
-if you land down b and pitfall them, you can also go for the up b
-for down b you dont need to hit a button, if someone is in your line of sight (ormovement) it will automatically hit

 

[Conda]

Good villager vs ZSS match I commentated:

 

[extremechiton]

Some I have found:
-down throw into up b or for fair
-if you land down b and pitfall them, you can also go for the up b
-for down b you dont need to hit a button, if someone is in your line of sight (ormovement) it will automatically hit

for style after i down b them into the ground , down smash, and then down b again for the ko. and if done right, you can sweet spot the down b and spike them hard.

edit: another good technique, is if someone has a very linear recovery, especially vertically, you can down b from on stage, and dont do anything, and stomp them. if they happen to grab the edge before you hit them, you just boounce back unharmed and unpunished, but if you do land it, its a very satisfying spike.

 

[pichuthedk]

for style after i down b them into the ground , down smash, and then down b again for the ko. and if done right, you can sweet spot the down b and spike them hard.

edit: another good technique, is if someone has a very linear recovery, especially vertically, you can down b from on stage, and dont do anything, and stomp them. if they happen to grab the edge before you hit them, you just boounce back unharmed and unpunished, but if you do land it, its a very satisfying spike.

Yeah man I posted aboUT that in the other forum thread, I am going to have to stop being lazy and make a list about who gets murdered by that and such.

A side note if anyone has some tourney replays vs Diddy , toss a link up so I can add it to the MU thread I'd preFer we put Diddy Kong down now so that we can move onto the more pressing matters like shiek , Yoshi and so forth.

Apex is around the corner let's work together so we can "whip some fear into those who would dare oppose us." xD

 

[DeLux]

Just a question since my thread updating game is weak since I get distracted by life, anyone else want control of this thread? As a mod I'll still have powers to update the thread as well, but it would be a way to get a second person to update it when I get busy working 55 hours weeks and stuff lol

 

[hiROI]

I was playing a couple of friendlies yesterday against a Diddy and I managed to save one match. For the most part, I felt that I had to not do usual ZSS gameplay and play on reaction to Diddy. The lost stock was a mess but critiques are encouraged! Thanks

These are offline in my apartment.

 

[Demna]

Just when I thought Dsmash followup won't be half as good as Brawl's, Nairo proved me wrong.
Do you think that what Nairo did is guaranteed? Or does it mostly depend on reading your opponent then act?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Just when I thought Dsmash followup won't be half as good as Brawl's, Nairo proved me wrong.
Do you think that what Nairo did is guaranteed? Or does it mostly depend on reading your opponent then act?

Well there is still DI but the direction stays the same and he had enough hitstun to make it a true combo.
We should test how much DI messes with this.

 

[David Viran]

I've tested the DI on dsmash a bit and they can either DI to go vertical or horizontal as in no DI but you might be able to cover both with a foxtrot reverse up b but I'm not to sure. The guessing game is more 50 50 as DIing down didn't seem to change much or enough. I'm going to test it more though.

 

[Duzzzyy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAQDUWlHDnA vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAfZMpURG84 vs

Hi, I'm a new Smash Bros. player, been playing for a month and would love some guidance and pointers for my Zamus and general play. I want Zamus as my main alongside Lucina and right now it feels like I don't know what move to use when and any good combos besides downthrow upB so I tend to spam the same moves a lot, leaving me extremely predictable. I also have issues finishing people off once they get to 100%+.

 

[extremechiton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAQDUWlHDnA vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAfZMpURG84 vs

Hi, I'm a new Smash Bros. player, been playing for a month and would love some guidance and pointers for my Zamus and general play. I want Zamus as my main alongside Lucina and right now it feels like I don't know what move to use when and any good combos besides downthrow upB so I tend to spam the same moves a lot, leaving me extremely predictable. I also have issues finishing people off once they get to 100%+.

For your down throw Combos you should fair or upside at lower to mid percents, and even at higher percents. As mix ups, down throw to bair will kill at high percents. And as an alternate mix up, you can nair out of down throw.

As for other tricks, b reverse paralyzer is always good, side b can be used to space, so a run away , pivot side b can get people off you.

As for kills, if you land a fully charged paralyzer, you can get a free down b kick that will kill early.
Also down b is such a great move, it covers distance as can be used to punish lots of laggy moves, even minuscule lag if you read propperly. It can catch a lot of people off guard.

Just be wary about spamming this move too, it can become predictable and easily punished if your opponent knows how to counter it.

If you get someone off stage, you can down b from on stage and don't activate the kick to stomp them strait down. This is a great way to Gimp people with bad recoveries.

An up b out of shield is a great use.

 

[Duzzzyy]

For your down throw Combos you should fair or upside at lower to mid percents, and even at higher percents. As mix ups, down throw to bair will kill at high percents. And as an alternate mix up, you can nair out of down throw.

As for other tricks, b reverse paralyzer is always good, side b can be used to space, so a run away , pivot side b can get people off you.

As for kills, if you land a fully charged paralyzer, you can get a free down b kick that will kill early.
Also down b is such a great move, it covers distance as can be used to punish lots of laggy moves, even minuscule lag if you read propperly. It can catch a lot of people off guard.

Just be wary about spamming this move too, it can become predictable and easily punished if your opponent knows how to counter it.

If you get someone off stage, you can down b from on stage and don't activate the kick to stomp them strait down. This is a great way to Gimp people with bad recoveries.

An up b out of shield is a great use.

Thanks a ton, feels great to have some pointers to work on and incorporate into my gameplan, I do have some questions too.
What do you mean by upside? upair or fair or bair?
How would I go about using fully charged paralyzer? It feels incredibly easy to punish since it has some end lag so firing it early won't work if they jump over and fast hit me.

 

[extremechiton]

Fair= forward aerial (while airborne, pressing the control stick in the direction your character is facing and press a
Nair = neutral air ( not inputting a direction and pressing a in the air)
Bair = back air (tilting the control stick in the opposite direction your facing and pressing a)

By upside I meant up air, (i blame auto correct on my phone) (( ditto on all above except up and a)

Fully charged paralyzer is situational, but even standard paralyzer has some end lag to it.
That's where b reversing comes in. If in the air, you can press and hold b then immediatly press the control stick in the opposite way your facing. This alters your momentum while throwing out an attack at the same time.

Just standing and doing the paralyzer is not a good idea, unless your opponent has tripped, or is getting up from the ledge.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Ah, also my bad for not being clear enough and making you explain the xair moves, I meant those as options for what you meant by upside.

Is there any specific advantage for reverse paralyzer, like how a reverse falcon punch is stronger?

I've also seen many ZZ-Samus players like Officer Jenny at tournaments use the downsmash at the most random times and they rarely hit them, is it just for zoning or baiting? Because I can't think of many times where I see the other person going for an areal punish as she does the animation and is affected by the endlag.

 

[David Viran]

Dsmash is pretty safe on shield so they throw it out there to scare people most of the time but it does punish pretty hard.

 

[extremechiton]

Mind games
Movement options
Mix up landings
Approaches

I rarely use down smash by itself. It takes a short time to come out, has little range, is a bit laggy, and even if you trade, you cant follow up. And since double dsmash doesnt work any more, i have no use or it.

The only time i use it is right after i plant someone in the ground from a down b. Or maybe a ledge get up read.

 

[David Viran]

Mind games
Movement options
Mix up landings
Approaches

I rarely use down smash by itself. It takes a short time to come out, has little range, is a bit laggy, and even if you trade, you cant follow up. And since double dsmash doesnt work any more, i have no use or it.

The only time i use it is right after i plant someone in the ground from a down b. Or maybe a ledge get up read.

Little range? Dsmash has a pretty decent amount of range. Dsmash was never to trade hits with anyway and it doesn't need to double dsmash to be a very good combo starter. The follow ups are very different in this game but are still good.

 

[pichuthedk]

Down smash can not be mindlessly used you can hit it one shield and be able to jab /shield IIRC.

And down smash sets up for several things in sense of mind games if you down smash them and always do things that have knock back for a follow up they won't be expecting things you know that they don't, for example if you have them near kill %,

you could go and grab them instead of knocking them away and then just consistently pummel them. At this point they are probably just expecting to di your up b or trying to di away from you.

After like 4 pummel they realize and start to mash , from this point you can do whatever you want be it pummel till release and jab or down throw -> up air either way depending on what you've hit them in regards to your stale move queue. you probably just refreshed your kill moves in your stale move queue which Is always nice.

Bottom line how a zss main uses her down smash is a deciding factor in how well they are able to apply pressure and exploit weakness like rolls, air dodges and spot dodges.

This is also why I have a lot to work on T.T.

 

[pichuthedk]

So sorry about the double post however after the most exhilarating and halirous set I had this weekend with V115 in bracket for zss dittos which was also the closest set we have ever had, I was kinda wondering is everyone cool if we get another video thread for strictly zss dittos?

The zany things that also happen in zss ditto is sure to bring lots of smiles to faces xD.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Well, I feel like there's nothing stopping dittos from being posted in here and then being added into a separate spoiler folder on the first post or something instead, no need to separate the threads.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Well, I feel like there's nothing stopping dittos from being posted in here and then being added into a separate spoiler folder on the first post or something instead, no need to separate the threads.

seconding this

 

[extremechiton]

So sorry about the double post however after the most exhilarating and halirous set I had this weekend with V115 in bracket for zss dittos which was also the closest set we have ever had, I was kinda wondering is everyone cool if we get another video thread for strictly zss dittos?

The zany things that also happen in zss ditto is sure to bring lots of smiles to faces xD.

My friend aand i do zss dittos all the time.
Since im so good with zss, his only counter to zss is his zss.
I should have some dittos on my youtube channel. Ill post them here in a short while

I am the black zss

Edit1: a zss ditto
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=TqP0DokJadQ
(My tablet wont let me embed videos)

Edit 2: anoher zss ditto
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=f8yxmlg148M

Edit 3:
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=nrHbPt5rml0

 

[pichuthedk]

Edit* yeah Duzzzyy is right leave it bE.

Man I went over my data by 200 mb already ,so tempted to load your replays xD.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Edit* yeah Duzzzyy is right leave it bE.

Man I went over my data by 200 mb already ,so tempted to load your replays xD.

You have limited data plans? Man, I feel for you. Shouldn't be a thing in this age.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You have limited data plans? Man, I feel for you. Shouldn't be a thing in this age.

I have that **** too. Germany really is behind regarding internet stuff.

 

[pichuthedk]

Long story short , used to have random phone plan with 6 gigs shared between 2 people (the other rarely used data).

Now I'm on another random cheaper plan with a different company and they gave me 300 mb a month +5 $/100 mb extra.

Man if data plans were unlimited people would be making smashboards techs like multitab dashing or sh page shuffling.

Aka toronto sucks sometimes

@ DeLux I would be down for subcontrol of the thread since I still find a way to no life the zss boards at times.

 

[David Viran]

More choco yea!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrelc7iZr9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IS-CtsP35c

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

More choco yea!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrelc7iZr9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IS-CtsP35c

Don't remind me. Seeing him lose that hard live got me really salty.
Watched the american tourney parallel to that and a Diddly won that too.
Depressing day.

 

[David Viran]

Yeah I don't know what happened he beat him in winner finals then lost four times in a row in grand finals.