Zero Suit Video Thread and Analysis

[pichuthedk]

^ and I'm pretty sure I'm the one who taught him that hehe.

@ infiniteV115
those back throw set ups vary on several factors but once you do it to a couple of unsuspecting people via paralyzer -> pivot grabs because sometimes people anticipating something else, you'll get the feel for it.

When you get a chance to play just try and factor in things like their % your rage , slopes in the stage (like LyLat , HalbaRd or delphino) that should help you sort of piece it together.....either that or flip jump after b throw every time like me and wait for that moment I bair them away-> another flip jump at them -> a Bair--> me slamming my controller down while popping off -> foaming at the mouth ...actually scratch those last 2

Yeah I'll be getting one. I made like at least 450 from winning EXP and I also got a part time job a few weeks ago, so I don't think I'll need help. Just wanna secure my trip to smash con and some other things before getting a Wii U

Wow you won exp I half love you I half hate you stop making my life as a zss so hard in Ontario T.T <3.

I gotta look at this challonge.com and see which souls you devoured xD.

Also Senpai finally noticed me ; p.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I know some of the setups but am not entirely sure exactly when/where they work. Like I know about ff nair --> downB and bthrow --> downB but I can't get them all the time

I bet you'll have them down in no time. 45 seems to be our magic number by the way, our BnB uAir combo, FF nAir > Sex Kick and bThrow > Sex Kick work at this percent, although the last one is DIable.

@ pichuthedk @ infiniteV115 now kiss

 

[Shaya]

I know some of the setups but am not entirely sure exactly when/where they work. Like I know about ff nair --> downB and bthrow --> downB but I can't get them all the time

Down Smash or Paralyzer near ledges (or off stage) are stocks from 30%+ with a good spike from flip jump. You can attempt to chain into it from down throw, forward throw, up air or back air too; if any of them are air dodged or they don't react properly you can get kicks from that too.

 

[pichuthedk]

Down Smash or Paralyzer near ledges (or off stage) are stocks from 30%+ with a good spike from flip jump. You can attempt to chain into it from down throw, forward throw, up air or back air too; if any of them are air dodged or they don't react properly you can get kicks from that too.

Yeah I need to stop being lazy I literally lab bed the paralyzer one myself since I love using her stuns but I either got trigger happy or to far out ,however I do actually randomly land them in pools and bracket once upon a time. Also just so we're clear your talking about paralyzer -> take in the sights of Battlefield for like 2 frames -> flip jump sex kick spiking then when they are edge slipping off the stage?

@ Tobi_Whatever Samus doesn't need a man so why would I ?baaaakaaaaaaa.

Jk I still <3 you nice try though

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You guys know that feeling when you get out those laser and dSmash pokes and you land one, completely surprised that you actually landed it, and totally screw up the follow up?

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah also dsmash of course, I didn't think that needed to be stated cause it combos into literally any of our moves

I do actually go for the airdodge read downBs quite a bit (just cause I like reading people as you have probably noticed) but for some reason I was missing all of them yesterday lol

 

[NickRiddle]

ZSS doesn't have a sex kick... why are you people saying that?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

ZSS doesn't have a sex kick... why are you people saying that?

I just looked it up for the first time ever and I didn't know it's an actual thing.
I just started calling the dSpecial kick that because it's hella sexy lol, didn't know it could be misleading.

 

[David Viran]

It makes alot of sense for zss to have a sex kick. Well it's actually sexy. How about sexy kick.

 

[NickRiddle]

A Sex Kick is a term from Melee IIRC for long-lingering nair hitboxes a la Mario/Yoshi/Link/Samus
This move is called Flip Kick.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

A Sex Kick is a term from Melee IIRC for long-lingering nair hitboxes a la Mario/Yoshi/Link/Samus
This move is called Flip Kick.

"Almost always a neutral aerial, though sometimes a back aerial, the signature aspect of a sex kick is that they are stronger during the initial thrust and weaker afterwards (with the exception of Dr. Mario's sex kick, which is weaker in the first few frames)."
I know it's called flip kick, but that didn't keep Delux and co from giving our moves strange names.

I think I'll just do this

It makes alot of sense for zss to have a sex kick. Well it's actually sexy. How about sexy kick.

 

[infiniteV115]

More vids of my ZSS, though these are from a local the weekend before EXP

Me vs Meekspeedy's Sonic (with a disgusting setup into a read to finish the set)
Me vs Blacktwins' Mario

Me vs Yoh's Sheik

I think ZSS loses to Mario 45:55. Ally Nairo Xzax all seem to think ZSS wins the MU. I went up 2-0 against Ally's Mario fairly easily but have never beaten Blacktwins' (in a full set anyway), his is much harder and I feel he knows the MU much better than Ally does.

Also I feel like the Sheik MU is like 3:7 for us, but maybe I just don't know it well enough.

Any critique on how I could play the Mario/Sheik MUs better would be appreciated, cause these two players are my biggest challenges in Canada atm LOL

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

More vids of my ZSS, though these are from a local the weekend before EXP

Me vs Meekspeedy's Sonic (with a disgusting setup into a read to finish the set)
Me vs Blacktwins' Mario

Me vs Yoh's Sheik

I think ZSS loses to Mario 45:55. Ally Nairo Xzax all seem to think ZSS wins the MU. I went up 2-0 against Ally's Mario fairly easily but have never beaten Blacktwins' (in a full set anyway), his is much harder and I feel he knows the MU much better than Ally does.

Also I feel like the Sheik MU is like 3:7 for us, but maybe I just don't know it well enough.

Any critique on how I could play the Mario/Sheik MUs better would be appreciated, cause these two players are my biggest challenges in Canada atm LOL

Have you watched the CEO Grand Finals?

 

[Shaya]

V115. You go for "reads" too much, I'm in training mode for a major this weekend so I was holding my controller while watching your sets (thus far).
After Mario set the main things I felt were...
You go for grabs when I would go for forward tilts. A lot. Pivot grabs have longer cooldown btw and I don't think really any different length/size to it from what I know; shucks.
You don't have zair in your repertoire tuned well enough. That same horizontal death stare you don't/can't cross over when Mario short hop fireballs? Zair clashes and continues on and does 3 or 6% and combos into dash attack or if well timed dash grab.
Up tilt is risky but you rarely use it. Invincible legs are going to beat Mario's attacks head on. It's a much more reliable risk to take then grabbing it.
At low percent/a lot of the time against Mario if you transition into the ground you need to be raring because bair will beat mario from below well spaced while he'll punish you for almost everything else.
Nearly all of your side-b attempts could've probably been possible down-b attempts.
Match up mentality wise you need to respect the up smash, and the same respect you give to that also helps mostly all over your game as well. If you let Mario into your nair range (or slightly above) while you're rising on the jump you're going to get messed up.

-

For Sheik thus far:
Don't recover like it's Brawl with holding onto the second jump and flip jumping ASAP. You either want to hold both and side-b (if they hit you out of tether you can still jump down-b -> side-b) or use down-b's invincibility frames to get through danger.
Sheik landing into you poorly is up tilts. If you know your shield's been up long enough to instantly drop (you know about shield locking in this right?) up tilt beats ftilt/jab on shield, it'll whiff down tilt though.
Tether ledge snaps are less laggy and you can reliably with that extra time from such ledge snaps cover the buffered get up options (ledge jump forward nair or up air). You can start running off stage and instantly side-b pull for this.
You need to try to make sheik uncomfortable on the ground so you can beat her in the air (due to us outranging her). Tight CQC with Jabbing being the ticket to beating out Sheik's range/frame data combination.
Flip Jump is good for escaping traps/bad situations and you kinda pick up on this a bit as time goes on but still probably could be worked on a bit.
Flip jump kick for paralyzer/dsmash punishes over boost kick, Sheik falls out way too easily (but it tends to be fine as a dash/oos punish, from both my experiences and what I've seen thus far in your sets )
I think you were doing really well in 3rd/4th/5th matches until something snapped and you just only did defensive stances and Sheik steamrolled you after that.

For what it's worth I think you played a lot better the week later for dealing with shields/short characters and whatnot.

 

[MOM Samus]

Sorry that I don't know how to embed vids. Would you accept unlisted video links instead? And this is my first time playing in over 2 months, so please understand. Because honestly, I could go with this (first stock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UjYWeSnZrM) never happening again. Pretty much got locked down on my own stage.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Sorry that I don't know how to embed vids. Would you accept unlisted video links instead? And this is my first time playing in over 2 months, so please understand. Because honestly, I could go with this (first stock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UjYWeSnZrM) never happening again. Pretty much got locked down on my own stage.

>I was pretty much down an entire stock against the most broken character in the game
Dat salt.
It's always interesting to see those panic grabs once a ZSS player loses control, no matter the players level.
You adapted nicely though, shut him down pretty good.

 

[pichuthedk]

So this has been on my mind for I am guessing over a month now and I'd like it to be clarified because deep down in my heart I know this should have worked.

https://youtu.be/CkxGM1dbMiw?t=280

So this was at the Arcadian we hosted awhile back and while I was doing fairly well I probably started to run out of steam but still determined to try and win the whole thing.
In any case look at the rest of that first game , V115 was the ikes coach and I have no buisness johning about his buffs which happened days before this tourney.

I feel like I let paranoia (that V had told him how to DI the boost kick) and fear cloud my judgement as i had landed it but started to hold away and not adjusting accordingly.

So can some people confirm that I literally just threw G1 away?
@ Tobi_Whatever
@ David Viran
@DeLux

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So this has been on my mind for I am guessing over a month now and I'd like it to be clarified because deep down in my heart I know this should have worked.

https://youtu.be/CkxGM1dbMiw?t=280

So this was at the Arcadian we hosted awhile back and while I was doing fairly well I probably started to run out of steam but still determined to try and win the whole thing.
In any case look at the rest of that first game , V115 was the ikes coach and I have no buisness johning about his buffs which happened days before this tourney.

I feel like I let paranoia (that V had told him how to DI the boost kick) and fear cloud my judgement as i had landed it but started to hold away and not adjusting accordingly.

So can some people confirm that I literally just threw G1 away?
@ Tobi_Whatever
@ David Viran
@DeLux

Yes, you blew it. If you would have adjusted your DI on the boostkick, it would have connected properly.

 

[pichuthedk]

well the commentators tried to say it doesn't work but I knew it would have worked, So I can put that fraudulent time behind me now.

 

[MOM Samus]

That same thing happens (Boost Kick fallout) when I do it against Rosa out of a grab. Work on every other character but her. Still can be done, but it's unlike the rest.

 

[MOM Samus]

>I was pretty much down an entire stock against the most broken character in the game
Dat salt.
It's always interesting to see those panic grabs once a ZSS player loses control, no matter the players level.
You adapted nicely though, shut him down pretty good.

Oh, I just grab him a lot like that because he shields EVERY time he lands.

 

[pichuthedk]

Oh, I just grab him a lot like that because he shields EVERY time he lands.

Ugh I need to get better at punishing dumb af habits like that , just so used to the brawl "oh you missed a grab? Let me just unplug my controller plug it back in and charge f smash" mentality. Makes me feel like only grabbing when it's gaurennteed like stuns and stuff.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Ugh I need to get better at punishing dumb af habits like that , just so used to the brawl "oh you missed a grab? Let me just unplug my controller plug it back in and charge f smash" mentality. Makes me feel like only grabbing when it's gaurennteed like stuns and stuff.

I don't think any of us will ever touch Nairo's shadow if we don't at least look at the cover of his necronomicon grab manual.
I believe his SSJ3 grab game is THE reason why he can keep up with top level Sheik players.
Like holy ****balls, I can't stop fanwhoring enough how awesome his grab game is.

 

[pichuthedk]

I don't think any of us will ever touch Nairo's shadow if we don't at least look at the cover of his necronomicon grab manual.
I believe his SSJ3 grab game is THE reason why he can keep up with top level Sheik players.
Like holy ****balls, I can't stop fanwhoring enough how awesome his grab game is.

Yeah I've started to try his...well I am on a hiatus atm but when I do play,attempt those walk up to your opponent sh in place land and grab.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Yeah I've started to try his...well I am on a hiatus atm but when I do play,attempt those walk up to your opponent sh in place land and grab.

Wouldn't that be too slow? Our grab is within human reaction time.

 

[pichuthedk]

Wouldn't that be too slow? Our grab is within human reaction time.

Not when you do stupid **** that does not compute in someone's brain for what ever reason or conditioning.

There are always moments in people's lives when gaming or something where a person is effected by a "WTF was that" mental stun. (Like a high lv player losing to a low lv player because of gimmicks or the player does something so stupid that they fall for it or are shocked it actually worked).
Or so I've heard? In anycase I've had that happen to me and you can lose focus even for a second and not react like you normally should.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Not when you do stupid **** that does not compute in someone's brain for what ever reason or conditioning.

There are always moments in people's lives when gaming or something where a person is effected by a "WTF was that" mental stun. (Like a high lv player losing to a low lv player because of gimmicks or the player does something so stupid that they fall for it or are shocked it actually worked).
Or so I've heard? In anycase I've had that happen to me and you can lose focus even for a second and not react like you normally should.

It happens to me too all the time since I suck, but that is now what I am aiming for in the long run, and not how Nairo gets his grabs.

 

[MOM Samus]

I think Nairo did amazing against Mr. R that one round (quick 2 stock). Who am I to question, but it really looks like he gets too hype and starts playing unusually. Play differently under the pressure, ya know? Play differently based on who he's playing and the seriousness of the event.

It's also not that bad to whiff a grab on Sheik. All of her smash attacks are weak, and ZS (I think) has the fastest tether end lag. They'll go for a grab-kill combos instead which you should DI and jump+air dodge away. Or Flip Jump if it'll work.

 

[BatShark]

My VODs from our weekly! Analysis appreciated, though my streamed matches both went pretty well this time around.

Ness player was getting my air dodges and roll escapes pretty well that set, need to abuse flip kick escape more to get away from his generous dash attack range.

(D1 poking fun at me in between games, but the Ness player is one of my better Smash friends so I don't take a ton of pleasure in the upset.)

 

[Take 5]

My VODs from our weekly! Analysis appreciated, though my streamed matches both went pretty well this time around.

Ness player was getting my air dodges and roll escapes pretty well that set, need to abuse flip kick escape more to get away from his generous dash attack range.

(D1 poking fun at me in between games, but the Ness player is one of my better Smash friends so I don't take a ton of pleasure in the upset.)

GGs all around. Only real things I noticed were:

1) I'd avoid roll-back to d-smash (generally too slow to work, I myself need to get out of that habit).
2) General spacing awareness (e.g. if you hit an opponent with uncharged paralyzer and are ~1 character length away, go for f-tilt rather than jab).

And lol at D1.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

This one's for you!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq60PyoSj8c

 

[Take 5]

This one's for you!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq60PyoSj8c

Jab 1 -> Dash In Pivot Grab... interesting (heard about Jab 1 -> Dash Away Pivot Grab but this is new to me).

Good job reading those air dodges. Try not to over-commit (like going offstage when you have stage control, or going for too many hard read boost kicks). Although since the vid is titled "Smash 4 Casuals" I'm not sure if you were just trying to style the whole match

 

[MOM Samus]

Can someone tell me what's the optimal idea of this thread? Bragging, I can see. Critique, I can see. Help, I see it. It's just all of those at once?

Because I feel like I'd be bragging if I posted my matches here (that's kind of bragging in itself, honestly). Then again, FG isn't what you should get hype over. IF I share matches, I'll try and keep it limited to my competitive friends.

 

[BatShark]

My impression is that it is for critique and as a general resource for ZSS footage that may be worthy of discussion/analysis.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Jab 1 -> Dash In Pivot Grab... interesting (heard about Jab 1 -> Dash Away Pivot Grab but this is new to me).

Good job reading those air dodges. Try not to over-commit (like going offstage when you have stage control, or going for too many hard read boost kicks). Although since the vid is titled "Smash 4 Casuals" I'm not sure if you were just trying to style the whole match

Thanks for the critique, that's what I was looking for. Regardless of it being a "casual" match (I don't have any ZSS tournament matches at the moment...but I do pretty bad with her), I actually do (or try) to go for a lot of those things in tournament matches. Namely, Grabs. I just rely too much on reads like that and end up running to silly things. I can't seem to establish a neutral game with her...don't understand it very much. Like, does she rely pretty much on constant N-Air spacing? Other moves just seems a tad risky. But I really have a ton of fun playing her, she's an insane character.

Can someone tell me what's the optimal idea of this thread? Bragging, I can see. Critique, I can see. Help, I see it. It's just all of those at once?

Because I feel like I'd be bragging if I posted my matches here (that's kind of bragging in itself, honestly). Then again, FG isn't what you should get hype over. IF I share matches, I'll try and keep it limited to my competitive friends.

Why does he tell me I am bragging 8[, that wasn't a For Glory match...

 

[MOM Samus]

Thanks for the critique, that's what I was looking for. Regardless of it being a "casual" match (I don't have any ZSS tournament matches at the moment...but I do pretty bad with her), I actually do (or try) to go for a lot of those things in tournament matches. Namely, Grabs. I just rely too much on reads like that and end up running to silly things. I can't seem to establish a neutral game with her...don't understand it very much. Like, does she rely pretty much on constant N-Air spacing? Other moves just seems a tad risky. But I really have a ton of fun playing her, she's an insane character.


Why does he tell me I am bragging 8[, that wasn't a For Glory match...

Never once did I say anyone was bragging. Merely, it was a suggestion. People could easily come here, post vids of their ZSs, and brag about them. I don't really see anyone doing it, anyhow. Nor would I blatantly flame someone like that either. I'm not rude and ignorant like that. Sorry if I am confusing. I don't always express everything as I want it to be.

Anyways, I like your match against the Sheik. I feel ZS is one of the few characters that can put up a fight with Sheik (...and Metaknight). I always enjoy watching a Sheik get torn to bits.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

No, I am sorry for misunderstanding. You stated it well, I just assumed in context that it could have been referring to my post...
Also, why MK? He doesn't seem particularly menacing. Is this because of the recent trump of LEO over Mr.R?

 

[MOM Samus]

No, I am sorry for misunderstanding. You stated it well, I just assumed in context that it could have been referring to my post...
Also, why MK? He doesn't seem particularly menacing. Is this because of the recent trump of LEO over Mr.R?

Hey, no prob.

Kinda. I said Metaknight only for laughs. I bet with a few more rounds, Mr. R would best him. Metaknight is still good and hard to fight when you're ZSS. And that MU on Halberd or Corneria is not fun in the slightest.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I think Mr.R played like a mofo, and this is not to take away the merit of winning from LEO. He seems like a pretty capable player.
Like I said, MK isn't particularly menacing. He just manages to convert his Dash Attack/Grab into pretty great things, assuming he lands it. And these lower kill silliness happens a ton in Smash 4 (just look at Samus...it's a lot of the reason I enjoy playing her).

 

[Peahnuts]

Played like trash at last weeks tournament but still managed 4th of 40+ people. Got taken out R2 winners but had a fun ZSS ditto in my first set of losers. You can tell from the plentiful rolls and smashes (meant to be ftilt half the time) that I was on tilt but I still managed a 6 set win streak through losers. I'll post the other matches on stream if they get uploaded too.