"common knowledge" that a lot of people don't know

LumpyCPU... · Jul 6, 2010

i wish there was a condensed version of this thread that only had the facts/corrections.

i just found this and i'm too lazy to read through all the debates and what not.

The Good Doctor · Jul 6, 2010

LumpyCPU... said:
i wish there was a condensed version of this thread that only had the facts/corrections.

i just found this and i'm too lazy to read through all the debates and what not.

for real?
This thread has beem on the first page forever...

LumpyCPU... · Jul 8, 2010

i rarely look at threads that aren't in my subscriptions folder.
mybad...

when i'm bored one of these days, i'll prolly read through this whole thread.

Phoenix~Lament · Jul 10, 2010

ihavespaceballs said:
No. You press down on the d-pad only, and release it really fast. That was the only input I did just now, and it activated the taunt.

Oh, I thought it was up.

Looks like I'm wrong too lol

Ripple · Jul 10, 2010

shine does not reflect anything on frames 2 and 3.

INSANE CARZY GUY · Jul 10, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0J1fF_yXuk

then watch this is the most fitting thing in all of smash look at name tags and stuff to understand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3gjNYaqedc&feature=related

Signia · Jul 11, 2010

for the love of god ICG

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/TheWarMachine74/StopPosting1.gif

INSANE CARZY GUY · Jul 11, 2010

signia is a grumpy pants because he/she didn't get a hg it's alright we love you

<3

Silent Wolf · Jul 12, 2010

you can do an invisible shine land if you shine while going through a platform from a certain height. this can only be done from full jump and walljump. the walljump has to be spaced perfectly and the height has to be exactly right for the full jump. if you do it from a double jump, which is possible on pretty much any platform, youll end up doing a shine that doesnt show up until the 4th frame and it wont have a hit box. as seen in revolution

Nø Ca$h · Jul 13, 2010

ohhh i was wondering about the invisable shine.

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

can someone explain to me what happened here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLF2tBttSE#t=2m03s

normally fox's bair doesn't work like roy's counter. mango just did a downsmash so he could have still been holding down on the c-stick, so that could have effected his DI... but i really don't know what the hell happened.

there are comments on youtube that try to explain it as the invisible ceiling glitch and it occurred because they both tried to hit each other at the same time... but that is total garbage.

X1-12 · Jul 13, 2010

Mokumo said:
can someone explain to me what happened here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLF2tBttSE#t=2m03s

normally fox's bair doesn't work like roy's counter. mango just did a downsmash so he could have still been holding down on the c-stick, so that could have effected his DI... but i really don't know what the hell happened.

there are comments on youtube that try to explain it as the invisible ceiling glitch and it occurred because they both tried to hit each other at the same time... but that is total garbage.

it is the invisible ceiling glitch which occurs if you are hit by an attack just after getting one of your attacks blocked.

if you do it on brinstar you fall through the lava downwards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WAZCVkox3I

ihavespaceblondes · Jul 13, 2010

Mokumo said:
can someone explain to me what happened here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLF2tBttSE#t=2m03s

normally fox's bair doesn't work like roy's counter. mango just did a downsmash so he could have still been holding down on the c-stick, so that could have effected his DI... but i really don't know what the hell happened.

there are comments on youtube that try to explain it as the invisible ceiling glitch and it occurred because they both tried to hit each other at the same time... but that is total garbage.

...it's the invisible ceiling glitch. It occurs sometimes when you get hit as you perform an attack. You are correct; it is total garbage.

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

so he hit theinvisible ceiling because he was still in the wind-down frames of his down smash? yeah that does sound like total garbage =P

X1-12 · Jul 13, 2010

it has NOTHING to do with getting hit as you perform an attack, its due to one of your own attacks being blocked, see the vid I linked

X1-12 · Jul 13, 2010

Mokumo said:
so he hit theinvisible ceiling because he was still in the wind-down frames of his down smash? yeah that does sound like total garbage =P

nope thats total bull****, read my posts dammit

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

but theres no invisible ceiling in the video you just shared (pretty cool though); mango didn't even fall through the platform after theshiawia blocked his downsmash. and if that were true why wouldn't i hit an invisible ceiling everytime i get shine-baired oos?

Magus420 · Jul 13, 2010

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9484837

ihavespaceblondes · Jul 13, 2010

X1-12 said:
it has NOTHING to do with getting hit as you perform an attack, its due to one of your own attacks being blocked, see the vid I linked

That's one way for it to happen, but it can also occur without a shield in the way I described. I'll see if I can find a vid later, the one I was looking for (a really old Ken/Isai teams vid on Onett) I can't seem to find.

Magus420 · Jul 13, 2010

Pretty sure that match on Onett was after his attack hitting a shield actually.

ihavespaceblondes · Jul 13, 2010

I remember it being Ken's Marth fsmash just starting as he got running upsmashed by a Fox. I'd like to find the vid and check, but I'm willing to bet that it was on sweetxignorance's channel and is therefore lost to the ages unless someone saved it.

But, anyway, are you saying that the ICG can only occur after an attack is shielded, Magus?

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

thanks magus!

so my understanding so far: your attack gets blocked, and your character moves a little because he hit a shield. if you get hit during these very few frames while your character is moving away from the shield (like what happened in mango vs dashizwiz) = invisible ceiling?

L/A/W · Jul 13, 2010

ihavespaceballs said:
I remember it being Ken's Marth fsmash just starting as he got running upsmashed by a Fox. I'd like to find the vid and check, but I'm willing to bet that it was on sweetxignorance's channel and is therefore lost to the ages unless someone saved it.

But, anyway, are you saying that the ICG can only occur after an attack is shielded, Magus?

when you said the ICG i immediately though insane carzy guy haha

Magus420 · Jul 13, 2010

ihavespaceballs said:
I remember it being Ken's Marth fsmash just starting as he got running upsmashed by a Fox. I'd like to find the vid and check, but I'm willing to bet that it was on sweetxignorance's channel and is therefore lost to the ages unless someone saved it.

But, anyway, are you saying that the ICG can only occur after an attack is shielded, Magus?

He was Marth? The one I was thinking of on Onett was Fox getting u-smash by another Fox iirc. Maybe a different vid then.

I won't say that it's impossible, but I've only seen it happen after hitting a defensive bubble (happens when hitting counter bubbles), and when the momentum reset gets triggered seems to be based on when the shield pushback would end so hitting a shield seems like it'd be a requirement.

Mokumo said:
so my understanding so far: your attack gets blocked, and your character moves a little because he hit a shield. if you get hit during these very few frames while your character is moving away from the shield (like what happened in mango vs dashizwiz) = invisible ceiling?

Pretty much. If the pushback ends before you leave the ground everything is normal, but if you leave the ground (knocked into the air, up-b, fall off, jump, etc) before it would end then all vertical movement from knockback becomes 0 at the time it would end and will always be 0 until you land again (maybe other stuff too like grab the edge). If you get hit right before it'd end you'll "hit the ceiling" very early into the knockback, and if hit earlier out of it it happens later into the knockback.

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

Magus420 said:
Pretty much. If the pushback ends before you leave the ground everything is normal, but if you leave the ground (knocked into the air, up-b, fall off, jump, etc) before it would end then all vertical movement from knockback becomes 0 at the time it would end and will always be 0 until you land again (maybe other stuff too like grab the edge). If you get hit right before it'd end you'll "hit the ceiling" very early into the knockback, and if hit earlier out of it it happens later into the knockback.

so the moment that magno hit the invisible ceiling was the exact same time he would have stopped getting pushed back from hitting the shield?

Magus420 · Jul 13, 2010

From the way I understand it yes. It explains why characters that slide very far have much longer windows until it triggers than high traction ones (Luigi's are lol).

Mokumo · Jul 13, 2010

word thanks magus i might play around with this tonight

Wobbles · Jul 13, 2010

Maybe this will help? You can force invisible ceiling glitches on Luigi and Mewtwo with Fox. Push one of them onto the edge and have the Luigi or Mewtwo do their get-up attack. Then up-smash from your shield with Fox; you get a ceiling glitch every time if you do it right.

They might have to be doing their 100%+ attack, I can't remember. Pretty laugh-worthy because if they DI off the stage, they will just fall all the way to the bottom.

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D5Eu_EMrr0#t=2m48s

Winston · Jul 13, 2010

Why does pivot grabbing work in some percents when they would be able to jump/shine out of a normal grab?

NubTactics · Jul 13, 2010

Ripple said:
shine does not reflect anything on frames 2 and 3.

Wrong, shine doesn't reflect anything on frames 1 (the only attack frame) and 2, reflector activates on 3

NubTactics · Jul 14, 2010

roy's counter takes substantially longer to activate and lasts for a much shorter time, having a much longer attack delay afterwards. It got made worse in every way possible except for its potential profit

mers · Jul 14, 2010

Gustav Wind said:
Why does pivot grabbing work in some percents when they would be able to jump/shine out of a normal grab?

They actually wouldn't be able to jump out. Assuming you're talking about Marth's chaingrab on spacies, the pivot grab simply spaces you out of range of the shine. They can shine before you can grab, but the timing is so close that their jump actually wouldn't carry them far enough away before you grab. If you aren't super quick about the pivot grab, however, it can allow them to jump away.

NubTactics · Jul 14, 2010

just about every one of roy's attacks that comes out at a different speed than marth's is slower (all of their smashes, nair, counter, dolphin slash), except for roy's grabs, which comes out sooner, but the animation lasts the same amount of time

Fortress | Sveet · Jul 14, 2010

ihsb is this the clip you're talking about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1ZLf6AZXQc#t=3m54s

Winston · Jul 14, 2010

ReverendGadgetBoy said:
They actually wouldn't be able to jump out. Assuming you're talking about Marth's chaingrab on spacies, the pivot grab simply spaces you out of range of the shine. They can shine before you can grab, but the timing is so close that their jump actually wouldn't carry them far enough away before you grab. If you aren't super quick about the pivot grab, however, it can allow them to jump away.

that's what I thought too, but then I came across this post:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2933012&postcount=2

apparently pivot grabbing extends peach's CG as well.

NubTactics · Jul 14, 2010

-Triggering the animation that occurs when you touch the edge gets rid of all delay and is the basis for edge canceling that no one ever really does. Touching the edge while in a neutral state also gets rid of all momentum, but the edge animation will not trigger if you're facing away from the edge, holding forward towards the edge when you touch it, or in the middle of any other animation besides standing or landing lag
-If you touch a platform at the very top of your jump you will awkwardly land on the platform, shifting your body into a standing position, but there is 0 lag time and this can be canceled into anything. This is especially useful with fox and falco because they can cancel landing lag while using blaster in this way.
If you use a special attack and land on the platform while you're using it no landing lag occurs, but the attack delay of the special attack changes to the way it is in the air to the way it is on the ground. In this way you can "shine land" with fox and falco by using reflector near the platform/stage and get back your jumps when you touch the floor.

Ripple · Jul 14, 2010

Ripple said:
shine does not reflect anything on frames 2 and 3.

NubTactics said:
Wrong, shine doesn't reflect anything on frames 1 (the only attack frame) and 2, reflector activates on 3

MAGUS!

I meant vulnerable actually. shine is vulnerable on 2 and 3. shine doesn't reflect on 1-3. I remember season's hitbox guide.

-ShadowPhoenix- · Jul 14, 2010

Most people dont know this.

but Isai got banned from playing melee for r@ping everyone even when he sandbagged...
TOO GOOD

Kyu Puff · Jul 14, 2010

In 1.0/1.1, is it true that you can't sdi moves that deal less than 1%, or do they just have less hitlag? If it is, can you shield sdi them?

Fletch · Jul 15, 2010

Kyu Puff said:
In 1.0/1.1, is it true that you can't sdi moves that deal less than 1%, or do they just have less hitlag? If it is, can you shield sdi them?

There's no hit lag on moves that do less than 1% in 1.0/1.1, so you can't sdi them. This changes in 1.2.

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