The game does not care for how you feel. Either a stage is broken or it is not. Is it overcentralizing? Yes? Ban it, its broken. Does it consistently yield random results? Yes, ban it, its broken. Can someone abuse the stage in a non overcentralizing fashion? Yes? Don't ban, learn2adapt. How is your example any different than if he beat you because he is kirby and you are ganon? Ban kirby, he abused that characters strenght!
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Creation of BBR Ruleset Committee; Brawl Nationals Agree to Same Stagelist! New TO's!
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
why can't the ultra what was it "open" ruleset people just accept the fact this isn't about what they think or even what is "potentially" the best.
This isn't about logic.
What if someone was able to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that a stage is fit/unfit for competitive play? Would you accept his reasonning or not? Because either its all about logic, or there is no logic involved and this is 100% subjective. In which point I don't see why we should even care about what ruleset we are using, all rulesets are equal.
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Wow, this guy really feels strongly about something. His paragraph was super dramatic and almost touched my heart. I feel such....emotion, like I have never known before.
Life
Smash Hero
I'm aware you counterpick Japes and RC as Snake. +1 respect. However, I ask, why should you not have won on those stages? Why'd the Kirby let you abuse Norfair, and not abuse it himself (for the record, Norfair is Ganon's best stage specifically because Ganon wins when people are forced to approach him)? Why didn't the opponent abuse the stage as you did? In short, what is so wrong about "abusing" the stage? For that matter, if you're so worried about "facing your opponent", why do you main Snake, who spends lots of the game trying NOT to face the opponent, instead of someone more aggro like... heck, what character in this game works best when trying to face the opponent head-on?
jowii: I LOL'd. But speaking as... shall I say... most-certainly-NOT-a-veteran, I have to do something to attract attention, no?
Teh Future
Smash Master
ya prob right i never read those though
if you start posting in color your going on my ignore list LMAO ****s so annoying everyone that dies that just needs to get slaped like a *****
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Sperglord, calm down.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I was ****ing Ganon dude.
That's how it'd be different than if he beat me. Have you even seen Ganon's frame data? He's the most unviable piece of trash in this entire game. Anyone who argues otherwise has a reaction speed nearly twice as slow as average. 1) The game does not care how you feel. If you feel a stage is "broken" too ****ing bad. Oh wait... that's just drawing a line because YOU DONT WANT THE GAME TO BE "who's best at circle camping on Temple with Sonic".
You're just choosing to draw the line earlier. When it becomes "Do this or you WILL lose."
There is also a very distinct difference between abusing a characters strengths, and abusing the living hell out of a stage design. Just because Norfair can't be circle camped for an entire 8 minutes due to the lava - is that what... 2 minutes? of time that I CAN'T circle camp really making it any less harmful? Wario's still consistently time out on this stage, I'm sure Sonic can as well. I know for a fact Diddy can on all whom aren't faster when airborne then him. It's an aerial circle - whereas Temple is more of a grounded circle. Still a circle.
I find it funny that, when as a winner, I don't feel I actually "won". Seems rather uncompetitive to me when the winner cannot even be proud of their "accomplishment".
Like dude. I totally abused this stage so hard rather than actually fighting you.
"When the lava wall spawns on my opponents side instead of mine, that is by no awesome power of mine. That was PURE LUCK. Kirby cannot abuse Norfair when a lava wall is forcing HIM to approach instead of ME. That is the ONLY reason I won that match. He was forced to approach, I hit him into the lava wall, suicided into lava, he dies I live. THE ONLY REASON I WON WAS DUE TO 100% LUCK. If I had been the one to approach, I know I'd have lost then. I'm POSITIVE of this, simply due to my character choice.
At least Halberd doesn't force you to APPROACH. It just forces you to MOVE, and it gives AMPLE WARNING.
Camping is facing my opponent by forcing an approach by using my own character. Not some lucky stroke of chance.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Um,....no? You + the Stage Rage Gang need to cool your jets and shut the **** up. >.> I'm not actively saying this though because I need material to troll and you guys are spinning your wheels while randomly saying troll-able stuff. Jeez, they haven't even posted a ruleset and the high and mighty toolbots are already vehement.
But that's just my buddy buddy talk.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
It's a compromise between 5 people with the thoughts of their community in mind. (Come on... you can count to 5 right? All the names are in the OP)
Also guess what:
Without TO's. There would be no community. Powers in their hands, not yours. They are influenced by the community - this is true. However when the only people who want change make up less than 10% of the community, who do you side with when you care about attendance and the growth of your community?
Also guess what:
Without TO's. There would be no community. Powers in their hands, not yours. They are influenced by the community - this is true. However when the only people who want change make up less than 10% of the community, who do you side with when you care about attendance and the growth of your community?
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
I main marth so to you I'm not, however yes I suck balls at this game like everyone who isn't ranked top 3 on a PRthis LOOOOL
but youre free
my philosphy is that
ranked players=ok
top 1-3 on a PR =good
everyone else=utter garbage including myself.
of course this theory has flaws because not all PRs are created equal
for example raziek despite being ranked 3rd belongs in the "utter garbage" category.
In general your only good compared to other bad players.
@ swordguard
whats best is subjective so you can't.
Teh Future
Smash Master
Ive noticed after reading this thread that the credibility of a user is inversely related to how long and colorful their posts are.
aka, large bodies of text that are colored like a pumpkin someone took a dump on are quickly passed over
aka, large bodies of text that are colored like a pumpkin someone took a dump on are quickly passed over
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
I agree. Colorful posts that are long just means you're long-winded and need to be trolled.
Life
Smash Hero
Ah, but the game is still competitive on an open list. So what is wrong with it? Again: you abuse your character AND stage, or you just abuse your character. More options makes for a deeper, and thus ultimately a more competitive game. And I'd still like to see some vids regarding Norfair's "circle". And Norfair, with the exception of the plumes, gives you a CRAPLOAD of warning (for the walls, it's a rumbling, followed by a camera movement towards the side the wall is coming from) which gives you plenty of time to get to a safer area or better yet, outplay your opponent into the lava. And you don't have to approach with the walls at least, it's possible to powershield the lava repeatedly and camp inside it (Marths and Ikes do it with counter all the time). But of course, the Kirby didn't know that, and so he lost.I was ****ing Ganon dude.
1) The game does not care how you feel. If you feel a stage is "broken" too ****ing bad. Oh wait... that's just drawing a line because YOU DONT WANT THE GAME TO BE "who's best at circle camping on Temple with Sonic".
You're just choosing to draw the line earlier. When it becomes "Do this or you WILL lose."
There is also a very distinct difference between abusing a characters strengths, and abusing the living hell out of a stage design. Just because Norfair can't be circle camped for an entire 8 minutes due to the lava - is that what... 2 minutes? of time that I CAN'T circle camp really making it any less harmful? Wario's still consistently time out on this stage, I'm sure Sonic can as well. I know for a fact Diddy can on all whom aren't faster when airborne then him. It's an aerial circle - whereas Temple is more of a grounded circle. Still a circle.
I find it funny that, when as a winner, I don't feel I actually "won". Seems rather uncompetitive to me when the winner cannot even be proud of their "accomplishment".
Like dude. I totally abused this stage so hard rather than actually fighting you.
When the lava wall spawns on my opponents side instead of mine, that is by no awesome power of mine. That was PURE LUCK. Kirby cannot abuse Norfair when a lava wall is forcing HIM to approach instead of ME. That is the ONLY reason I won that match. He was forced to approach, I hit him into the lava wall, suicided into lava, he dies I live. THE ONLY REASON I WON WAS DUE TO 100% LUCK. If I had been the one to approach, I know I'd have lost then. I'm POSITIVE of this, simply due to my character choice.
At least Halberd doesn't force you to APPROACH. It just forces you to MOVE, and it gives AMPLE WARNING.
Camping is facing my opponent by forcing an approach by using my own character. Not some lucky stroke of chance.
@jowii: Or you could, you know, refute what we have to say instead of trolling and raging?
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
your assuming that character depth and stage depth are created equal, most tournament players particularly among the successful ones will tell you otherwise
that being said there isn't any way to measure it we we are back at square one.
its still subjective
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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Oh sorry, let me be more clear.
Let's say the results weren't clear banworthy like the results were seen by some to be far but not too far, but to others in the group it was banworthy.
Imo, I wouldn't place a questionable stage on a national stagelist because of the chance if we were wrong and some does fully break it, players who spent a lot of money and work to prepare for that national lose out when they lose to that tactic.
That is what I would do, just curious what think about it.
Life
Smash Hero
Yay appeal to popularity.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
See.... this is the problem a lot of people have. This idea that you "don't feel like you earned your win" may seem sensible, but it's utter nonsense. First of all, as demonstrated, any stage element (or lack thereof) is to be equally valued. Therefore, any and all stages are equal in that regard. Furthermore, in regards to norfair, it is probably ganon's best counterpick (lavacides, can't get walled effectively, can abuse his amazing uair...). Whereas going to a "neutral" would lead to the matchup being ridiculously skewed in Kirby's favor. The only way it's possible that you didn't "earn" your win is if you got abused by random effects; possible on norfair, but not on RC.
But the basic point here is that your intuition is wrong.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
or maybe they are just right?
you can't prove they aren't, your just an individual unwilling to accept a compromise because your head is in your *** thinking my way must be the only way.
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
Lawl. You guys are a bunch of bigots w/ mental complexes, <---cool plural. It'd be pointless for a simple Joe, <---cool because my name is JoWii, like myself to argue w/ y'all because anything I say would probably be chalked up to the billion fallacies or lack of infinite amounts of stage knowledge over 75m.
Besiiiiiiiiiide, I don't have a cool txt color
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Things are going well in our new group. We have added bigblue as a neutral and set the LGL at 5 for every character.
ENJOY!
ENJOY!
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
teh **** xyro
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
Life
Smash Hero
Listen to yourself talk sometime.
I feel my way is the BEST way. That's why I argue for it. Obviously there are other ways--restrictive-list tournaments regularly bring in scores of attendees. Yet if a tactic isn't overpowering, for what reason should it be banned? The game is far deeper with more options, the learning curve higher with each stage you need to learn.
jowii: umad? :mad070:
Xyro: Your trolling is not helping.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Soren, not only am I probably better than you, because most of the videos that exist of me are 5+ months old, but I could be an 80-year old paraplegic with horrendous arthritis and vision problems, play Zelda and be AWFUL at this game, and my opinion would still matter just as much as yours, if it was supported by logic.
Appeal to experience is lol.
Appeal to experience is lol.
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
But y u mad tho
SuSa
Banned via Administration
So in other words. EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!
I've earned my win if I can circle camp for 8 minutes on Temple with NO RANDOM FACTORS than if I had won on Norfair because a lava wall spawned on the left side, not the right side.
Teh Future
Smash Master
WHY THE **** ISN'T FLATZOZE 2 LEGAL!?!?!?!??!?!?
Y0u guys just sit here in your ivyleague equivalent towers of extraordinary bull**** illogically constructed ruleset and don't even realize that what you are all construsting is illogically the dumbest and stupidest thing that anybody has ever done since the creation of time
JUST SO YOU CAN GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK, UNREASONABLY ILLOGICAL HEADS
All of the stage hazards on flatzone 2 are on a predetermined timer that is easily memorized IF YOU AREn"T A COMPLETE IDIOT within a couple days.
FURTHRMOAR, none of the stage hazards even kill you until AT LEAST 35% with proper DI. Not to mention the stage combos are easily escapable through mr. doom SDI (here is a video for reference if you dumb ****s don't know what im talking about)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
THIS RIDICULOUS NOTION THAT THE STAGE KILLS YOU AT 0 IS UTTER NONSENSE
SERIOUSLY WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY RUN TOURNAMENTS? I clearly know more than people that actually play the game because my posts are in pretty colors and i get angry for no reason.
ANYWAYS clearly Hanenbow should be legal because it helps some characters that need a counterpick. For instance, Peach cannot kills normally on certain stages. She also has problems recovering. Flatzone is therefore a good CP for her against characters like mk who **** her off the ledge and plus she can kill them earlier
Anyways I really hope this rule commitee stops being retardedly illogical and considers making Distant Planet legal because it really hasn't proven to be broken and it promotes characters diversity
Y0u guys just sit here in your ivyleague equivalent towers of extraordinary bull**** illogically constructed ruleset and don't even realize that what you are all construsting is illogically the dumbest and stupidest thing that anybody has ever done since the creation of time
JUST SO YOU CAN GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK, UNREASONABLY ILLOGICAL HEADS
All of the stage hazards on flatzone 2 are on a predetermined timer that is easily memorized IF YOU AREn"T A COMPLETE IDIOT within a couple days.
FURTHRMOAR, none of the stage hazards even kill you until AT LEAST 35% with proper DI. Not to mention the stage combos are easily escapable through mr. doom SDI (here is a video for reference if you dumb ****s don't know what im talking about)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyEa_zUXjp8
THIS RIDICULOUS NOTION THAT THE STAGE KILLS YOU AT 0 IS UTTER NONSENSE
SERIOUSLY WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY RUN TOURNAMENTS? I clearly know more than people that actually play the game because my posts are in pretty colors and i get angry for no reason.
ANYWAYS clearly Hanenbow should be legal because it helps some characters that need a counterpick. For instance, Peach cannot kills normally on certain stages. She also has problems recovering. Flatzone is therefore a good CP for her against characters like mk who **** her off the ledge and plus she can kill them earlier
Anyways I really hope this rule commitee stops being retardedly illogical and considers making Distant Planet legal because it really hasn't proven to be broken and it promotes characters diversity
ADHD
Smash Hero
The most metaknight dominated regions have also been with the best players.
Just sayin'.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
all thats fine and dandy
but once you actually step into the tournament and you have to play it means utter crap until you win. That day, that exact moment, with infinite amount of factors is who is better right then and now, and nothing else matters.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Life
Smash Hero
But y u mad tho
Maybe that's why? And that's just directed at me in this thread. I'm sure BPC, if he cared to, could compose a list far longer than this. (And I'm actually not that mad, I'm more likeUm,....no? You + the Stage Rage Gang need to cool your jets and shut the **** up. >.> I'm not actively saying this though because I need material to troll and you guys are spinning your wheels while randomly saying troll-able stuff. Jeez, they haven't even posted a ruleset and the high and mighty toolbots are already vehement.
+
.)Teh_Future: DP is fine. Flatzone has walkoffs and is tiny. Hanenbow (apparently) has a circle. /trollbait
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
raziek I don't call myself good and then lose to table.
you have repeatedly shown to be a mediocre player at best, I don't label myself as talented because I have nothing to show for it and I don't believe I'm significantly above average.
you have repeatedly shown to be a mediocre player at best, I don't label myself as talented because I have nothing to show for it and I don't believe I'm significantly above average.
Life
Smash Hero
Sage JoWii
Smash Champion
But but but......y u mad tho?Maybe that's why? And that's just directed at me in this thread. I'm sure BPC, if he cared to, could compose a list far longer than this. (And I'm actually not that mad, I'm more like
Teh_Future: DP is fine. Flatzone has walkoffs and is tiny. Hanenbow (apparently) has a circle. /trollbait
Btw, you should see SuSa, Jack K., BPC_, and Fino's personal attack list. Those are like...volumes.
Btw guys, I hope they have SOMETHING about suicides in their ruleset when they finally post one. Kirby,D3,Ganon,Wario all need to have some clarity.
Life
Smash Hero
@jowii: Believe me, I've seen some of it. It's probably comparable to American's income tax code in length.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
K, then why did you include RC in the equation?
Okay, this is a good point... But it can apply just as well to FD. I don't feel like I earned my win if all I did was stand in one place and upBOOS/ftilt after shield drop everything my opponent threw at me (my opponent probably being ganon or G&W); after all he had no platforms to retreat to and no hazards to help him along.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
All suicides should result in a draw or lose.
No all suicides should result in a win.
Nah, they should all be determined by the game results screen.
The answer most likely to be chosen (because it's poplar):
Bowsercide/Ganoncide suicides will result in a win.
If it's something else I'll be shocked.
Also my personal attack list has an entire chapter dedicated just to Omni's posts.
Also that's your opponents poor character choice. No matter WHAT MATCHUP on Norfair, I may win regardless of my opponents character choice. Simply because the lava forced them to approach.
Nothing is forcing them to approach on FD... unless its you...
No all suicides should result in a win.
Nah, they should all be determined by the game results screen.
The answer most likely to be chosen (because it's poplar):
Bowsercide/Ganoncide suicides will result in a win.
If it's something else I'll be shocked.
Also my personal attack list has an entire chapter dedicated just to Omni's posts.
It's a "janky" stage.
Also that's your opponents poor character choice. No matter WHAT MATCHUP on Norfair, I may win regardless of my opponents character choice. Simply because the lava forced them to approach.
Nothing is forcing them to approach on FD... unless its you...
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I have practically no MK experience. (Yes, I know this is because we banned him, and yes, we are unbanning him.)
Your point? People make mistakes.
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