Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

Nicholas1024 said:

If anyone wants quotes and full details for my case on name, it's in my two walls at 702 and 785.

Anyway, there's a reason the case is so long and drawn out (PBPA style), and that's because it actually can't be done any other way. The root of my case against Nabe can be summarized in two phrases. Safe actions, and fake contributing.

Looking over Nabe's early game play, a lot of people had him as town, but for what? His asking questions style. Now I will admit that many of the questions he asked were good, and pointed out a flaw in someone else's logic at times. However, when I read his posts with the intention of trying to get his thought process... I couldn't. The ONLY time he gives reads are when they're expected from him (and usually outright asked by another person), and even then he won't give reasons for said reads. It's unusual for him to even make a normal statement.

Because of this pattern, no one post of his is actually scummy on it's own. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, I do plenty of that myself. However, when you connect the dots, you realize that just about every move he makes is safe. It's hard to argue with a question, and although possible, people also don't usually argue with reads without knowing the reasoning behind them. By never bringing up his scumpicks, Nabe essentially has unknown reads on 70% of the game at any given time. This means that if someone asks him "What do you think of X", Nabe can usually pick his answer to whatever would be safest. (Look, I understand this is a bit difficult to translate, it's something you more or less need to see for yourself. So please, read through 702 or go through his posts yourself, trying to look at Nabe's thought process.) This means that regardless of what happens, even if someone goes back and does a reread, it's extremely unlikely they'll latch onto him UNLESS they're looking for that pattern.

Now to address the elephant in the room and the one thing that doesn't fit that pattern, his case on me. My argument regarding this is simple, it was necessary because of activity reasons.

Let's take a look at the situation before the case. Nabe's been inactive for a few days. Consider what would happen if he just went back to asking random questions and the occasional stance (when asked). He'd get blasted for having no new content, right? So, to avoid suspicion, he had to get some kind of new content for everyone, and the easiest way to do that was to make a case.

Now keep in mind, who's easily been the most-attacked target in this game? Me. I've been attacked by many different people, and though a lot of the attacks contained dumb points, in the end there WERE several decent points left standing after my defense, and one of those was only first raised after Nabe fell behind activity-wise. So, Nabe just says Reyth's case was excellent, particularly that one point (the "slip" he's been pushing all this time), and bam. Suddenly he's back in people's brownie townie categories, despite not actually doing anything new (even the "case" he pushed is completely unoriginal!), and it has the bonus of raising a bit more pressure on a townie. So despite appearances, this was actually a pretty safe move.

This post alone isn't meant to prove anything (and in fact can't prove anything without being a PBPA due to the nature of the scumtell), it just lays out Nabe-scum's general strategy. The full details and proof is (again) in #702 and #785. Please just take a look at those two posts (or if you don't trust me, take a look at Nabe's posts yourselves, focusing on the stances and content that HE has actually provided.)

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Reyth said:

Ran's reads are so off all of a sudden. He is being downgraded to Good from Town. Maybe when one of his "scum" flips pop town he will re-adjust but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is something wrong with him (alignment wise).

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July said:

Kk fair enough, I do remember you saying once before that you leave reading Ryker to others.

I didn't remember that post specifically, so I went back and looked it up:



At the time I remember still being frustrated that he only addressed Swiss and his concerns, and that it wasn't surprising that he also left this note to Kuz/Laundry because I know he's hydra'd with them before. Honestly I was confused as to why he liked his position in this game at this point. Usually when Ryker expresses satisfaction in a game, at least when I've played with him, it's because he thinks he has found scum and he takes a lot of pride in his scumhunting skills. Here he had yet to do any scumhunting, the most notable thing he had done was "help" Nich and start that whole situation.

In reference to what you've quoted from me above, this quote would mean that what he has done since then by staying in the shadows has been very deliberate to maintain that position that he was comfortable with. It means that he's also comfortable with not scumhunting this game which definitely fits his play so far.




Yes, I did see Nich's 155 and Reyth's take on it in his catch-up post, and T-Block and I had a discussion about this because it is where I questioned my read on Nich as just bad town and considered the possibility that he is scum. That post is still scummy and I still think it is a legit point, but taking everything into account, I still don't think that the scum motivation is there but there were attempts to scumhunt, and I'm giving that precedence when it comes to my read on him.

Also while I was looking up quotes I found these. The first being DeGrey's reasoning for not voting Vanderzant (KK):








DeGrey has a lot of excuses for not voting that really don't add up. The first one he says that he doesn't want to vote without speaking to Raziek first, but in the second one he seems perfectly willing to put his vote on KK if he gets halfway to a lynch, and I don't think he discussed that with Raziek before he posted. Finally in the last one he says he's given up on waiting to get together with his other head so he has no reason not to be acting on his own scum reads and getting into the discussions here instead of hanging in the background.

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Ranmaru said:

For you Nabe. I didn't quote anything though. Numbers for you all!

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1. SK says Kuz Is town then says it was really null? #601
2. SK posts more content. #623
3. SK: Why Tblock? Already see DGrey scumminess. #623
4. So, what do you care of who I ask PL, Tblock? #630
5. He obv hasn’t, nabe. *regarding Zen reading #631
6. Nabe, expand on this slip from Nich. #631
7. I didn’t assume how he came to KK scum, I agreed that he was also slightly suspicious. Although I mentioned earlier it was based on connections, and based on their self play I am liking them. #636
8. Still the same, I did like their new stances. Didn’t like the Kuz Town thing gambit though. Read is still the same. (Regarding recent thoughts on SK) #643
9. I wasn’t whiteknighting Reyth. I was just peeved that he’d come in to direct lynches when he hasn’t even pushed his own. Reyth can defend himself. #643
10. Nabe, not liking your Nich vote bro. #654
11. Reyth, wtf are you doing? Why are you voting Nich? #719
12. Reyth, I’m not tunneling. And I’m fine on lynching Jpg TODAy. #734
13. Lmao at Zen being able to read me well. Tell me where you have done that correctly.

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Ranmaru said:

STUPID CRASH BOARDS I HATE UUUU.

Anyways

Please describe how SK is fine to you, his recent play.

I am not misrepping, you know your reasons for Gray = protown are bad. You are even using wifom to determine that.

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Nabe said:

I'd support SK and possibly July, I'd join in on lynches of July, VG, Zen and PTSD obviously, maybe your slot if Swiss ever posts again and has decent enough reasoning.

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SoupaKatamari said:

KK, hold me and katerpies hand.

Also, I agree to disagree on vg.jpg, this is classic asdioh and most of the content generated by him is either small fluff or consistent scumhunting, although a vote would be sex, asdioh.

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SoupaKatamari said:

Also, are my meta reads ever wrong? :3

Srs question, they're usually dead set right, but that comes with how much experience I have with the player.

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