Advancing the Metagame - Little Facts We Need To test!

mdmfromdaridge · Dec 18, 2008

Havokk, I saw in the Q&A thread that you said you've seen CPU's use their second jump out of the cypher. I've been watching all CPU matches to see if I can catch a glimpse of this. If so, I wanted to do some work to see if it's doable. You're sure they were using a jump after?

napZzz · Dec 18, 2008

Havokk I like how you mentioned the nade to nair, I usually try to uair outta my grenades or bair depending on their DI and the percent.

C4->uair/bair is 2gud

If we're gonna talk about ftilt, you should try learning the first hit in depth. Depending on what it does you can get different follow ups to it. Ftilt might trip occasionally, which leads you to re starting your ftilt (double knee) for a little damage, or jab to ftilt, or even grab, maybe utilt if their in ko range.

Other times they just lurch over where your best bet is to just hit with the 2nd part.

If they fly away with the hard knockback, use this time to try and set up a trap of some sort and control the stage.

mdmfromdaridge · Dec 18, 2008

Just thought this was interesting, I'm sure others have used it but I figured I would mention it. Generally the C4 drop recovery is pretty effective. Unfortunately your small plastic explosive can sometimes blow you right into the roof and you could end up killing yourself. If you are away from the edge and already have a considerably large percent of damage racked up, pull a grenade, short throw it, and immediately use your cypher, as you cross paths with your grenade (DI required of course) then you must use an air dodge to catch it. If done properly, this will give you your extra cypher, without risking your C4 blowing you to hell. Not to mention it looks cool.

EDIT: I went and did some testing to make this a little more than useless. C4 will generally kill you once you are around 120% damage. If you detonate the C4 at the VERY BOTTOM of final destination, you can squeeze up until 150%. If you begin using grenades at 120%, you should be able to recover without risking falling so low, and will be able to continue using grenades to recover, even when your hit percent is around 180%. This number varies of course with the height at which you start. Nonetheless, I plan on using this, could give me an extra 60 potential damage I can sustain on a single stock.

8AngeL8 · Dec 18, 2008

Does the grenade thing work only when normal falling, or will it work with a fast fall as well? No Wii atm, otherwise I'd go do it myself.

mdmfromdaridge · Dec 18, 2008

It should work regardless, so long as you can intersect it's path on your cypher and make sure to catch it with your air dodge. I just tried to verify and the only thing I can caution against is that the grenade trick takes a bit longer to do then the c4. Because of the nature of the trick, you would need to be at a pretty good height to fast fall it, but other then that, it really isnt any more difficult than a normal fall.

EDIT: Ok, it would appear that if you start the fast fall AFTER the grenade has been thrown, then you should not air dodge and should instead just allow it to explode on you while you pass by. If you fast fall before the grenade, then you should be able to throw it, cypher, and catch it as you would normally.

Panix · Dec 18, 2008

I think ( I might be wrong but this is from what I've seen ) the First hit on the Ftlit can knock someone on there back if the move has been staled from hit 2-4 [usually when I see them drop is around 3]) It could be that staling his f tilt could give different results on how the opponent reacts to the move, or I might just be making up a bunch of crap, but usually its around the 2nd to third knee that I see knocks them on their back. If im wrong then sorry, just trying to get the trial and error out of the way to learn snake a little better.

~ Gheb ~ · Dec 18, 2008

I've been doing some testing with the uthrow -> utilt against Fox and MK...

It works vs MK only @0% and you have to buffer a turnaround utilt in order to make it inescapable. I also don't know if you could add something explosive to make the combo longer but these conditions must be fulfilled to make the combo work.
Against Fox it seems to work up to 15%...
It should be noted that at 0% you can just do a regular utilt (probably buffered) but once the % rises (no number yet) you have to turnaround utilt (buffered again...) against Fox

It has something to do with fall speed...the closer the opponent is vertically to Snake the easier it is to follow up with the utilt. The higher he flies away the more likely you have to do a turnaround utilt. If he flies as high as MK you always have to turnaround utilt. If he drops as fast as Fox you don't need to.

Since it works on MK it should also work vs Fox (confirmed), Falco, Sheik, Wolf and everybody who falls faster than MK. It's also very likely that it works vs big characters like DK, D3 and Bowser. If I knew the fall speeds of each character I could see better how it works but it seems like MK is knocked just high enough...if a character flies even higher it's unlikely that the utilt will hit...

...I'll do some more exact testings.

napZzz · Dec 18, 2008

mdmfromdaridge said:
Just thought this was interesting, I'm sure others have used it but I figured I would mention it. Generally the C4 drop recovery is pretty effective. Unfortunately your small plastic explosive can sometimes blow you right into the roof and you could end up killing yourself. If you are away from the edge and already have a considerably large percent of damage racked up, pull a grenade, short throw it, and immediately use your cypher, as you cross paths with your grenade (DI required of course) then you must use an air dodge to catch it. If done properly, this will give you your extra cypher, without risking your C4 blowing you to hell. Not to mention it looks cool.

EDIT: I went and did some testing to make this a little more than useless. C4 will generally kill you once you are around 120% damage. If you detonate the C4 at the VERY BOTTOM of final destination, you can squeeze up until 150%. If you begin using grenades at 120%, you should be able to recover without risking falling so low, and will be able to continue using grenades to recover, even when your hit percent is around 180%. This number varies of course with the height at which you start. Nonetheless, I plan on using this, could give me an extra 60 potential damage I can sustain on a single stock.

you do know that you can tech the stage after c4'in yourself.

If I'm gonna c4 recovery past 140% (smash DI dair usually saves me otherwise) I try to DI towards the stage and risk the tech, which allows you to recover with your cypher yet again and keep on truckin

@Gheb-utilt juggles fatty's and fast fallers at low percents once or twice, maybe three if you read an air dodge but its not worth it, I try to keep utilt as fresh as possible for the kills.

SuSa · Dec 18, 2008

Panix said:
I think ( I might be wrong but this is from what I've seen ) the First hit on the Ftlit can knock someone on there back if the move has been staled from hit 2-4 [usually when I see them drop is around 3]) It could be that staling his f tilt could give different results on how the opponent reacts to the move, or I might just be making up a bunch of crap, but usually its around the 2nd to third knee that I see knocks them on their back. If im wrong then sorry, just trying to get the trial and error out of the way to learn snake a little better.

It's actually random, I've gotten it after 1 try, then after 30.... :laugh:

When it does that trip animation, if you're close enough you can down-b sticky > utilt > c4

Good combo, works at any % your opponent trips at

napZzz · Dec 18, 2008

Havokk said:
It's actually random, I've gotten it after 1 try, then after 30....

When it does that trip animation, if you're close enough you can down-b sticky > utilt > c4

Good combo, works at any % your opponent trips at

Are you sure theres not different hitboxes on the knee? It seems like the invisible one is the one that has knockback, while the trip is simply random at higher percentages

I'd rather go jab-Ftilt again and hope it double trips for knee-jab-knee (another trip)jab-full ftilt lmao

Its happened before XD

Lawlmahbawls · Dec 18, 2008

The move must have a set % chance for tripping when used, like any d-tilts that trip. But it is probably a LOT lower chance than the d-tilts.

SuSa · Dec 18, 2008

-NaPPy said:
Are you sure theres not different hitboxes on the knee? It seems like the invisible one is the one that has knockback, while the trip is simply random at higher percentages

I'd rather go jab-Ftilt again and hope it double trips for knee-jab-knee (another trip)jab-full ftilt lmao

Its happened before XD

I'm almost certain it's not different hitboxes.

Anyways

Jab > Ftilt > C4 Stick > Utilt > C4 Explosion - Death

is far more epic. :laugh:

Eternal Yoshi · Dec 18, 2008

Lawlmahbawls said:
Snake Jab Kill % (Only last hit)

Mario: 137
Luigi: 136
Peach: 132
Bowser: 148
DK: 146
Diddy: 132
Yoshi: 141
Wario: 141
Link: 138
Zelda: 128
Sheik: 123
Ganondorf: 142
Toon Link: 133
Samus: 144
Zero Suit Samus: 123
Pit: 133
Ice Climbers: 131
R.O.B.: 142
Kirby: 123
Meta Knight: 122
King Dedede: 145
Olimar: 126
Fox: 117
Falco: 123
Wolf: 126
Captain Falcon: 139
Pikachu: 122
Squirtle: 118
Ivysaur: 138
Charizard: 145
Lucario: 137
Jigglypuff: 117
Marth: 129
Ike: 141
Ness: 132
Lucas: 132
Mr. Game and Watch: 119
Snake: 146
Sonic: 133

All tested in the middle of Final Destination, CPU was set to control so there would be no DI. I'm rather iffy about some of the numbers (Olimar O.o) But it seems to be very accurate.

You shouldn't use training mode for this stuff because
kill % in training mode =/= actual kill % in versus mode.

In general, moves in training mode kill about 5% later than they do in actual modes when fresh.

SuSa · Dec 18, 2008

Eternal Yoshi said:
You shouldn't use training mode for this stuff because
kill % in training mode =/= actual kill % in versus mode.

In general, moves in training mode kill about 5% later than they do in actual modes when fresh.

Where's your evidence of this?

I know the %'s are rounded down in training mode, hence why in a real battle you may do 1% more then when you are in training mode.

But do you know how much harder this is to train in versus mode? Getting a person to an EXACT %, without staling your moves?

-Ran · Dec 18, 2008

Handicap mode + Mr. Saturn.

SuSa · Dec 20, 2008

New thing to test:

What can we go prone under? I noticed a few fsmashes here and there have missed.

Things to test about this:
1. Angle of move (mario angled down should hit us, while angled up it won't)
2. Will distance make a difference?
3. How about direction? (maybe Snake's feet will miss, but his head will get hit? lol)

Note: for 2 and 3, you can test a few and come to a conclusion.... if it misses his feet and head for 6-7 characters, it's safe to assume it doesn't make a difference.

I'll edit the OP when I'm not using my mom's laptop + babysitting.

(update it with current 'test this' and answers.

SuSa · Dec 20, 2008

Sorry for double post so quickly.

OP has been updated with new results, and some answers.

I am currently updating 'fully answered', 'partly answered' and 'untested' categories for quicker findings. This will probably occur 5-15 minutes from this post.

Terodactyl Yelnats · Dec 20, 2008

The Dair is strongest of the aerials and the fastest, but it also has the smallest range of any of his aerials. It's the best DI aerial he has and can survive with it up to ( with some luck and major skill of spacing ) 220%. But this barely ever happens and your opponent would have to be an idiot not to K.O him rather than blindly throwing out a smash attack.

cycon365 · Dec 20, 2008

Havokk said:
Test:Out of 100 tests (so we can have a %) (or more if you like) how many ftilt's (first hit only) does it take to trip?
Test variables:
1. Test ranges of 0-30%, 31-70% and 71+% (low, medium, high)
2. Test to see if there really is a 'special' hitbox on the ftilt to see if that affects tripping ( try close up and far away for a small while at any %, if it doesn't make a difference then you can stop testing)
3. Does it trip heavyweights more then lightweights? (from the small testing I did, it seemed to trip Bowser more then Meta Knight)

Are we testing in general or is this character specific?

EDIT: oh wow, sorry, I should read harder

SuSa · Dec 20, 2008

cycon365 said:
Are we testing in general or is this character specific?

EDIT: oh wow, sorry, I should read harder

lol

25 on heavyweight x2
25 on lightweight x2

Take both averages (so 25 vs 25, then again 25 vs 25, DONT ADD THEM)

Is there a difference?

If it's RELATIVELY CLOSE for both cases (like 5 or closer) then safe to assume there is no difference, or if there is it's minimal.

If that is the case, just add all 25+25+25+25, then find the average.

If that isn't the case, and it seems heavyweights trip more/less then lightweights, then do 3 seperate tests.

1. King D3 (heaviest I believe)
2. Jigglypuff (lightest I believe, or is that G&W?)
3. Mario (Mid Weight, and he's the "average" for most everything, rofl)

SuSa · Dec 21, 2008

OP Updated with 2 more questions.

Please people, I need testers... doing this all by myself would take forever.

~~_____________________________~~

Ftilt Trip Data

There appears to be no 'special hitbox' that trips more, guarantees a trip, or anything. It's pretty random.
It seems weight does not affect trip ratio, which is around 14% rounded+average.
It appears each character has 3 animations when hit. 1 Stun, a 2nd Stun, and a Trip.
If your hurtbox is over an enemy hurtbox and you do the first ftilt, it actually has knockack! So that means your opponent doesn't have to be in the air to suffer knockback from the first tilt! (This however, is useless, it's doubtful you can get close enough to your opponent to do this)
It seems % makes no difference, sometimes I just got a little unlucky, and other times I got lucky. All %'s are within 10-17% with the average at 13.76%

Havokk said:
G&W:
Starting at 0% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

3/25 Or 12%

#/*/25 (How many attempts per trip 25 times)

One. 15
Two. 4
Three. 6
Four. 7
Five. 10

Six. 5
Seven. 12
Eight. 6
Nine. 1
Ten. 12

Eleven. 7
Twelve. 42
Thirteen. 17
Fourteen. 11
Fifteen. 8

Sixteen. 5
Seventeen. 24
Eighteen. 4
Nineteen. 9
Twenty. 2

Twenty-one. 5
Twenty-two. 4
Twenty-three. 13
Twenty-four. 1
Twenty-five. 5

Data in order of lowest to greatest:
1 1
2
4 4 4
5 5 5 5
6 6
7 7
8
9
10
11
12 12
13
15
17
24
42

Average: 25/235 total attempts or 10.6382%
Median: 7
Mode: 5
Range: 41

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 30% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

2/25 8%

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 1
Two. 3
Three. 6
Four. 1
Five. 7

Six. 8
Seven. 7
Eight. 9
Nine. 11
Ten. 3

Eleven. 4
Twelve. 11
Thirteen. 9
Fourteen. 25
Fifteen. 3

Sixteen. 5
Seventeen. 11
Eighteen. 4
Nineteen. 1
Twenty. 3

Twenty-one. 1
Twenty-two. 5
Twenty-three. 3
Twenty-four. 3
Twenty-five. 1

Data in order from least to greatest:
1 1 1 1 1
3 3 3 3 3 3
4 4
5 5
6
7 7
9 9
11 11 11
25

Average: 25/145 or 17.2413%
Median: 4
Mode: 3
Range: 24

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 70% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

2/25 or 8%

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 19
Two. 6
Three. 9
Four. 1
Five. 17

Six. 1
Seven. 1
Eight. 3
Nine. 16
Ten. 2

Eleven. 4
Twelve. 11
Thirteen. 15
Fourteen. 12
Fifteen. 3

Sixteen. 2
Seventeen. 38
Eighteen. 12
Nineteen. 1
Twenty. 6

Twenty-one. 5
Twenty-two. 6
Twenty-three. 3
Twenty-four. 2
Twenty-five. 4

Data from least to greatest:
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 3 3
4 4
5
6 6
11
12 12
15
16
38

Average: 25/199 or 12.5628%
Median: 4
Mode:1, 2
Range:37

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 100% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

4/25 or 16%

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 2
Two. 3
Three. 1
Four. 5
Five. 13

Six. 1
Seven. 24
Eight. 5
Nine. 6
Ten. 7

Eleven. 12
Twelve. 1
Thirteen. 3
Fourteen. 19
Fifteen. 2

Sixteen. 30
Seventeen. 5
Eighteen. 2
Nineteen. 5
Twenty. 1

Twenty-one. 9
Twenty-two. 8
Twenty-three. 7
Twenty-four. 9
Twenty-five. 2

Data from least to greatest:
1 1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 3
5 5 5 5
6
7 7
8
9 9
12
13
19
24
30

Average: 25/173 or 14.4508%
Median: 5
Mode:1, 2, 5
Range:29

~~___________________________________________~~

Game and Watch Total Average

100/732 or 13.2978%

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Havokk said:
King DeDeDe:
Starting at 0% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

6/25 or 24%

#/*/25 (How many attempts per trip 25 times)

One. 8
Two. 11
Three. 13
Four. 8
Five. 1

Six. 9
Seven. 6
Eight. 7
Nine. 1
Ten. 2

Eleven. 5
Twelve. 1
Thirteen. 1
Fourteen. 5
Fifteen. 4

Sixteen. 3
Seventeen. 17
Eighteen. 2
Nineteen. 6
Twenty. 4

Twenty-one. 6
Twenty-two. 13
Twenty-three. 2
Twenty-four. 11
Twenty-five. 9

Data in order from least to greatest:

1 1 1 1
2 2 2
3
4 4
5 5
6 6 6
7
8 8
9 9
11 11
13 13
17

Average: 25/155 total attempts or 16.1290%
Median: 6
Mode: 1
Range: 16

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 30% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

3/25 or 12% *strange*

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 12
Two. 12
Three. 3
Four. 2
Five. 1

Six. 4
Seven. 2
Eight. 1
Nine. 14
Ten. 17

Eleven. 6
Twelve. 30
Thirteen. 5
Fourteen. 5
Fifteen. 7

Sixteen. 4
Seventeen. 3
Eighteen. 5
Nineteen. 16
Twenty. 11

Twenty-one. 3
Twenty-two. 12
Twenty-three. 3
Twenty-four. 2
Twenty-five. 5

Data in order from least to greatest:
1 1
2 2 2
3 3 3 3
4 4
5 5 5 5
6
7
11
12 12 12
14
16
17
30

Average: 25/185 or 13.5135%
Median: 5
Mode: 3, 5
Range: 29

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 70% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

4/25 or 16%

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 12
Two. 4
Three. 8
Four. 5
Five. 11

Six. 3
Seven. 1
Eight. 8
Nine. 9
Ten. 2

Eleven. 2
Twelve. 5
Thirteen. 17
Fourteen. 3
Fifteen. 17

Sixteen. 10
Seventeen. 2
Eighteen. 1
Nineteen. 2
Twenty. 5

Twenty-one. 15
Twenty-two. 1
Twenty-three. 5
Twenty-four. 5
Twenty-five. 20

Data from least to greatest:
1 1 1
2 2 2 2
3 3
4
5 5 5 5 5
8 8
9
10
11
12
15
17 17
20

Average:25/173 or 14.4508%
Median: 5
Mode:5
Range:19

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Starting at 100% each knee. (Paused after each hit to reset %)

#/25 (# of 'trip's out of 25)

3/25 or 12%

#/*/25 (# of 'trip's per attempts 25 times)

One. 14
Two. 17
Three. 4
Four. 2
Five. 11

Six. 6
Seven. 6
Eight. 12
Nine. 1
Ten. 6

Eleven. 2
Twelve. 7
Thirteen. 8
Fourteen. 3
Fifteen. 1

Sixteen. 1
Seventeen. 14
Eighteen. 40
Nineteen. 4
Twenty. 2

Twenty-one. 24
Twenty-two. 1
Twenty-three. 4
Twenty-four. 9
Twenty-five. 9

Data from least to greatest:
1 1 1 1
2 2 2
3
4 4 4
6 6 6
7
8
9 9
11
12
14 14
17
24
40

Average: 25/208 or 12.0923%
Median:6
Mode:1
Range:39

~~___________________________________________~~

King DeDeDe Total Average

100/721 or 13.8696%

~~___________________________________________~~
~~___________________________________________~~

Havokk said:
Total between all 8 tests:

Average: 200/1453 or 13.7646%
Median/Mode/Range (screw this, if you really want it you do it :|

abit_rusty · Dec 21, 2008

A note on dtilt:

It's not entirely "useless" per say. Not only does a fresh one have KO potential, the fact that it sweeps outward a good distance away from Snake's head when crouching allows this move to serve as a great spacing tool. You'd be surprised how deceptively far the tip can hit, especially if you space it while hitting a landing opponent. Due to how the move is executed, the opponent may not expect a perfectly spaced dtilt to hit them.

In addition, if you're in range with the dtilt, you're in range with the ftilt, so more options there. Finally, when prone, if you dtilt and immediately hold the opposite direction, Snake will turn and face that direction while remaining crouched. As far as I know, this is the only way to turn snake around while still in prone position.

As for the test, I'll see what I can do but it's safe to say that at 0% this can work. Now that I think of it, another aspect we can potentially test is up-throw and follow-ups from it. I'm pretty sure you can re-grab at least once after upthrow, especially on heavies. Or you can utilt or uair or who knows maybe nair?

Hot_ArmS · Dec 24, 2008

Test: Whats the best aerial to use for DI? Bair, Uair, or Dair? (Remember, you want the quickest aerial, then you want to fastfall)
Answered: Dair, it is not only your fastest aerial but it automatically fastfalls the second time you do it (otherwise manually fastfall)

really? i used to use dair and then someone told me uair is better for momentum canceling, and i think it is cause even though you dont fastfall as much it really does break your momentum so you dont go flying off the screen's edge

8AngeL8 · Dec 24, 2008

Dtilt works as a fast surprise out of Dthrow if you predict they'll stay in place. I use it against the space animals as well.

I'm pretty sure Dair is the best DI aerial, it seems to slow your momentum incredibly well.

abit_rusty · Dec 24, 2008

It's not the aerial that slows your momentum, it's the action after the aerial. The aerial just interrupts the hitstun animation, allowing you to perform another action immediately after the aerial ends. This action could be fast falling. It can also be immediately doing your second jump.

If you're debating on optimum aerials to use to survive, you're both somewhat correct.

Vertically, it's dair. Since it fast falls, you counteract the upward momentum immediately, no need for any action after the aerial.

Horizontally, especially at higher percents, you'll want to uair, then immediately do your second jump. The second jump is what will slow your momentum down, and since uair ends quickest out of all the aerials, you'll want to use it to get out of stun animation quicker.

Of course proper DI is required at all times.

SuSa · Dec 24, 2008

He went off of something I tested a while ago, making my DI video I came to the same conclusion as abit_rusty.

:mewtwo:

SuSa · Dec 29, 2008

New thing to test:

What exactly makes grenades blow up? *I think certain moves, like Jab's, can't blow it up*

Because sometimes it halts, other times it blows up.

This needed a bump.

Lawlmahbawls · Dec 29, 2008

I think with grenades, its the first hit stops the grenade and the second blows it up. So if you jab it after you get hit, it blows up, but if you jab it first it will stop?

Not reallllllly sure on that one, but just throwing it out there. <___<;

SuSa · Dec 29, 2008

Lawlmahbawls said:
I think with grenades, its the first hit stops the grenade and the second blows it up. So if you jab it after you get hit, it blows up, but if you jab it first it will stop?

Not reallllllly sure on that one, but just throwing it out there. <___<;

The point of this thread is to test.

Not to assume.

New thing to test:

Does the spike of Fair deal more damage then the non-spike (sourspot)?

Test pl0x.

SuSa · Jan 14, 2009

I need testers.

more things to test-

When falling (not fast falling) will dropping a nikita immediatly after using it cause a safe 'wall' from anyone who tries to grab you? (meaning, person b is falling as snake, and person a grabs them on landing, will the nikita be perfectly spaced to break the grab? If so, who can throw before getting hit? (MK fthrow comes to mind))

what causes a c4 to be 'unstickied' or 'drop off' of a character? besides brushing against an opponent....sometimes I can dash back and forward and it falls off, other times it doesn't.... we need to find the pattern, maybe its by x seconds? but that can't be true, because I've been blown up by my own c4 after 27 seconds, mabye its random? I need testers....

I'll be testing a lot of this stuff tomorrow when I get home from school, but still =p there has to be someone who can do some testing for me..

Shadow_of_Link · Jan 14, 2009

I found out that Ftilt clanks with Lucas's Fsmash. I'll be working on it some more tomorrow.

SuSa · Jan 15, 2009

I have a list somewhere, just need to find it.

If you can, try to read pages 4-5 for anything NOT in the OP and test those =p

Shadow_of_Link · Jan 15, 2009

Did some testing on what attacks can hit from the ledge.

Utilt, dtilt, dash attack, dair, bair, and fair (it can even spike!). I only tested this on Mario, but I'll see if these work on other chars as well (I'm pretty sure they should)

SuSa · Jan 15, 2009

Theres a list somewhere of characters that hang above the edge a bit when they hold onto the edge. (normally big characters, ness, mario, lucas, and a few others) then ones who's head isn't over the edge.

I'll try to find that list (same list as 'who you can grab on the edge, and who you can't' basically.... but that should help you.

(testing people who hang over, and people who don't. that way it only requires you to test 4 characters or so rather then 10+)

Shadow_of_Link · Jan 15, 2009

Havokk said:
Theres a list somewhere of characters that hang above the edge a bit when they hold onto the edge. (normally big characters, ness, mario, lucas, and a few others) then ones who's head isn't over the edge.

I'll try to find that list (same list as 'who you can grab on the edge, and who you can't' basically.... but that should help you.

(testing people who hang over, and people who don't. that way it only requires you to test 4 characters or so rather then 10+)

I've found that dtilt doesn't always hit, so that list would very helpful. And dair for some reason is weird, the number of hits it gets in seems different for every char >_< (more testing for me

)

SuSa · Jan 15, 2009

Test your spacing?

oh, and boo-hoo, have you seen the amount of testing I've done for some things? *looks at first post of this page*

T_T that took hours...organizing it, doing the math, counting, retesting once because I fudged up one number (somehow ended with 24 when I could have sworn I had 25, only to see "9" to be empty...)

Use the search function and search 'grab from edge' and you should find the thread. The search function seems to not be working for me :/

Shadow_of_Link · Jan 16, 2009

Havokk said:
Test your spacing?

oh, and boo-hoo, have you seen the amount of testing I've done for some things? *looks at first post of this page*

T_T that took hours...organizing it, doing the math, counting, retesting once because I fudged up one number (somehow ended with 24 when I could have sworn I had 25, only to see "9" to be empty...)

Use the search function and search 'grab from edge' and you should find the thread. The search function seems to not be working for me :/

Testing my spacing was one of the first things I did. And I procrastinate alot, so testing longer than 30 minutes is hard.

<insert more john's here>

SuSa · Jan 16, 2009

I have some new information, when I get ungrounded I'll show the results and stuff, but for now just believe me.

13 seconds -- The amount of time a C4 remains stuck to an opponent when stuck, NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, they can jump, attack, run around, do nothing, doesn't matter.

Til Explosion -- If you and your opponent keep resticking eachother, the 13 second timer resets itself. The C4 will remain transferring and sticking between the two (within 13 seconds) and eventually blow up after the 26.5 (explanation coming soon) seconds of the C4 timer.

C4 Timer is 26.5, NOT 27. -- I retested this when I found that the stick seemed to last 13.25 seconds (I rounded to 13 to be more practical since .25 seconds is almost neglible) and retested my c4 timer. It turns out it would blow up at around 26.5 seconds later, NOT a full 27 seconds. (started at around xx:xx:00 and it would end at xx:43:50, NOT xx:43:00.... so my first testing was wrong.

1.5 or 2 seconds (to hard to be exact) before a c4 can transfer from one player to another. This includes after a stick, and after a transfer. So you cannot immediatly transfer the c4 to an opponent, you must wait roughly 2 seconds.

I also have a few more things I'll be testing, but first comes some Link testing.

Tero. · Jan 16, 2009

*subscribes*

Also:

Air grab release to mine (mine on a platform obv) is a sure hit, isn't that sexy ?

SuSa · Jan 16, 2009

I'll be adding that soon, thanks.

updates coming when I'm not using a ****ty laptop...

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