Advancing the Metagame - Little Facts We Need To test!

[Ken Neth]

Test:Can we utilt people off the ledge?

I've uptilted my friend off the edge on PS1 and it stage spiked him.

13 seconds -- The amount of time a C4 remains stuck to an opponent when stuck, NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, they can jump, attack, run around, do nothing, doesn't matter.

On the c4 sticking, I've found that if I hit them hard, usually a ftilt or an utilt, immediately after sticking them it falls off, and I end up blowing myself up because I didn't notice lol.

 

[SuSa]

There is a damage or knockback equation I need to test. It might actually be based off of knockback speed ( the whole 'max knockback xx mph thing ) and I need to test it.


A strong bair can knock it off, but sometimes a weak bair won't. So I would assume its with launch speed, or damage.


I'll be testing that when I work it all out (how I'll be testing, what the variables are, and what moves to use) in my head.

 

[AvoiD]

Not sure if it was found, but I was just messing around in Training yesterday.

You can stick a C4 to basically any character, yeah. Well, I was in Training, CPU was a Marth. Stick a C4 on them. Stand close, and hit Down B. Right after you hit it though, hold Shield. It will explode, but you will perfect shield it no matter what.

Try it. Dunno how it will help the metagame though. :x

 

[SuSa]

I wish people would read our stickies.


Sorry Kuro, but we've known that for ages....

 

[Tub]

Sweet spot of fair does more (1% more) than sour spot.
utilt will hit any character off the ledge at any percent.

 

[SuSa]

OP Updated, I'll get around to adding the more recent questions soon, I'm doing frame data for Falcon, then might (REDO) all of Snake's data, or finish what I have.

(BY REDO I mean redo the thread <_> and fix things, take things out, etc. Make it like how I have the Falcon one)

 

[Tub]

characters that can be hit off the ledge with a dash attack:
mario
luigi
bowser
donkey kong
yoshi
ice climbers
meta knight
king dedede
olimar
pikachu
ivysaur
charizard
jiggs
ness
lucas
GaW
characters that cant:
everyone else

ps. luigi, d3, ivy, and GaW have to be hit with the ending of the dash with snake's fingertips. this is very strict for luigi, and GaW

 

[SuSa]

That also happens to be the "hangs above the ledge a bit" it seems.

That should help someone with their research

Thanks for the list, OP updated.

 

[SuSa]

I heard people were interested in testing.

/this needs a bump

I'll have new information soon, finally have a testing partner, I get my wii back in 1-2 weeks.

 

[SuSa]

It's been 2 weeks.

Come on people

*Next time I'll PM someone else to bump it for me, but personally... does it matter who bumps it?*

THIS STILL HAS UNANSWERED QUESTIONS, therefore its still useful..

 

[Tub]

I wish to test the "which attacks snake can crouch under", but it says "in testing" i need to know which parts have been (or are in the process of testing) so that i can finish it off.

 

[SuSa]

I was going to start testing on it, but never did.

Feel free to start wherever.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

That CG that Snake has,(on the ledge),
What characters does it work on?

 

[Hot_ArmS]

o_0 what cg

 

[SuSa]

@Hot

We have an infinite dthrow chaingrab on anyone with slow reaction time...

Most players can get out of it with nair/bair...... some with dair/uair

Others just trade damage

 

[spudzalot]

I believe I have a theory for the disapearing C4. When I get home today I will test it. :]

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I've noticed that there are 2 different animations when the opponent gets hit by the first hit of the Ftilt (other than a trip), as pointed out in the Ftilt data thread. I was wondering if there is any difference in hitstun for these 2 animations. One of the animations is more rare than the other, so I figured it may have more hitstun, and could possibly lead to real combos on the opponent, like Ftilt -> jab -> Ftilt or Ftilt -> grab whenever you see the second hitstun animation.

This is probably best tested through checking the frames, and holding down the shield button with the character getting hit to see at what frame they can begin to shield.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

what are these 2 animations

 

[Oniboy]

Aren't 2 animations how we get one ftilt that does 21% and the other that does 18%?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Rather, I meant the first hit of the Ftilt gives 2 different animations. Although, it seems that some characters may not have a second animation (not counting the trip and the hit from the trip), because I tried it on Marth for a few minutes but only saw one animation.

The character I was doing this on was MK. Hit him over and over again with the first ftilt only, and look at his animations. His most common animation is when his head goes backwards, but there is an animation where his head goes forwards instead. I'm just wondering if these two different animations have a different amount of hitstun.

 

[Neb]

The animation could be dependent on distance, and what portion of the hitbox the opponent eats, like a sour spot?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I saw this thread and tested your theory. I used Meta Knight for this one.

Counting starts from the frame after the hitbox hits the Meta Knight.

First animation has 37 frames until shield appears

Second animation has 35 frames until shield appears.

It's not dependent on distance.

Having him trip is better.

sigh.....

 

[SuSa]

Rather, I meant the first hit of the Ftilt gives 2 different animations. Although, it seems that some characters may not have a second animation (not counting the trip and the hit from the trip), because I tried it on Marth for a few minutes but only saw one animation.

The character I was doing this on was MK. Hit him over and over again with the first ftilt only, and look at his animations. His most common animation is when his head goes backwards, but there is an animation where his head goes forwards instead. I'm just wondering if these two different animations have a different amount of hitstun.

I noticed this ages ago, mentioned it, and got ignored.

The trip animation gives you JUST enough time to c4 stick them if you're close by, and if they are relatively slow at reacting (aka: aren't holding shield) you can hit them with utilt.

Not 100% sure, but I've pulled it off several times in matches.

The area you hit makes no difference.

The trip is just barely longer.

Edit:

Like the 4-6th on the list... at least READ it.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6161850&postcount=61

 

[spudzalot]

My theory was wrong. Nevermind. :/

 

[ShiFu]

Do we know how a C4 sticky falls off sometimes? :S

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

Do we know how a C4 sticky falls off sometimes? :S

The amount of time it is stuck to the person determines when it falls off. IIRC it falls off after 13 seconds? Or was it 7...

 

[Black_Heretic]

I believe its 13 seconds and it every time it switches player, the timer resets

 

[SuSa]

I believe its 13 seconds and it every time it switches player, the timer resets

This.

13.25 seconds to be precise.

The c4 lasts 26.5 seconds before it explodes, it sticks fo rhalf of that.

 

[Tub]

The following is a list of all of the grounded A-button attacks (except d-tilt) that dont hit snake while he is crouching.
ps. (back) means in order not to get hit, the characters back must be to snake, and the oppisite for (front). (close) means you have to be as close as possible, whereas (near) simply means you have to be close, but not extremely. (far) means about a half-kirby away.
Mario: u-tilt (back)
Luigi: u-smash (front)
Peach: Jab (close), u-smash (far)
Bowser: u-smash (front)
DK: u-smash
Diddy: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)
Yoshi: u-smash, u-tilt
Wario: u-smash, u-tilt
Link: u-tilt (facing), f-smash (2nd hit)
Zelda: u-smash, u-tilt, f-tilt, jab
Shiek: u-tilt (back), jab (close, 1st hit)
Ganon: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab, f-tilt, f-smash
Tlink: u-smash (back)
Samus: u-smash, u-tilt (back), jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash
ZSS: u-smash (back), u-tilt, jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash (near)
Pit: u-tilt (back)
IC: u-smash (back), u-tilt
ROB: all except for 2nd hit of jab
Kirby: u-tilt (front)
MK: u-smash
D3: u-tilt
Olimar: none (all hit)
Fox: u-smash (back)
Falco: u-smash (back), f-tilt (back)
Wolf: u-tilt (back)
CF: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab (1st and 2nd hit), f-tilt, f-smash
Pikachu: u-smash (back)
Ivysaur: u-smash (back)
Charizard: u-tilt
Squirtle: none (all hit)
Lucario: u-smash
Jiggs: u-smash (back), u-tilt (front)
Martha: u-tilt
Ike: jab (1st hit)
Ness: u-tilt
Lucas: none (all hit)
GaW: u-tilt
Snake: u-tilt (back), jab (1st, 2nd, and 3rd)
Sonic: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)

Since this information is (imo), very unorganized, it would be greatly appreciated if someone could organize this into a chart. For example; the attacks could be placed at the top horizontally, and the characters down the left side vertically, then the intersecting boxes could be filled in with symbols denoting if snake is safe or not, and what positions they need to be in.
(I would do this myself, but I have no computer)

 

[CELTiiC]

The following is a list of all of the grounded A-button attacks (except d-tilt) that dont hit snake while he is crouching.
ps. (back) means in order not to get hit, the characters back must be to snake, and the oppisite for (front). (close) means you have to be as close as possible, whereas (near) simply means you have to be close, but not extremely. (far) means about a half-kirby away.
Mario: u-tilt (back)
Luigi: u-smash (front)
Peach: Jab (close), u-smash (far)
Bowser: u-smash (front)
DK: u-smash
Diddy: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)
Yoshi: u-smash, u-tilt
Wario: u-smash, u-tilt
Link: u-tilt (facing), f-smash (2nd hit)
Zelda: u-smash, u-tilt, f-tilt, jab
Shiek: u-tilt (back), jab (close, 1st hit)
Ganon: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab, f-tilt, f-smash
Tlink: u-smash (back)
Samus: u-smash, u-tilt (back), jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash
ZSS: u-smash (back), u-tilt, jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash (near)
Pit: u-tilt (back)
IC: u-smash (back), u-tilt
ROB: all except for 2nd hit of jab
Kirby: u-tilt (front)
MK: u-smash
D3: u-tilt
Olimar: none (all hit)
Fox: u-smash (back)
Falco: u-smash (back), f-tilt (back)
Wolf: u-tilt (back)
CF: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab (1st and 2nd hit), f-tilt, f-smash
Pikachu: u-smash (back)
Ivysaur: u-smash (back)
Charizard: u-tilt
Squirtle: none (all hit)
Lucario: u-smash
Jiggs: u-smash (back), u-tilt (front)
Martha: u-tilt
Ike: jab (1st hit)
Ness: u-tilt
Lucas: none (all hit)
GaW: u-tilt
Snake: u-tilt (back), jab (1st, 2nd, and 3rd)
Sonic: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)

Since this information is (imo), very unorganized, it would be greatly appreciated if someone could organize this into a chart. For example; the attacks could be placed at the top horizontally, and the characters down the left side vertically, then the intersecting boxes could be filled in with symbols denoting if snake is safe or not, and whay positions they need to be in.
(I would do this myself, but I have no computer)

Good job on this, this is really helpful.

 

[Tub]

thanks ^_^

 

[Ussi]

You might want to blow yourselves up to the % where Pika's dthrow won't work...:

New Snake cg!

Fthrow x 2 > pummel > Dthrow x 3 > pummel > Dthrow x 5 + regrab - 83%

Snake cannot nade or footstool out of this one.

frame by frame tested..

 

[Hot_ArmS]

whats a pummel

 

[Ussi]

pummel = grab attack

 

[Tero.]

You might want to blow yourselves up to the % where Pika's dthrow won't work...:



frame by frame tested..

Better camp on platform and don't get grabbed.
Same as for Falco/IC's.

 

[Ken Neth]

Hey, I did a bunch of research on powershielding snake's jab, if you want to add that to the OP. It's really helpful to know who you're going to/can't be punished by if you try to do the full 3 jabs on them, and I feel a lot more people will view this thread than the one where this is posted.

Here's the link to my post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

 

[Tub]

The following is a list of all of the grounded A-button attacks (except d-tilt) that dont hit snake while he is crouching.
ps. (back) means in order not to get hit, the characters back must be to snake, and the oppisite for (front). (close) means you have to be as close as possible, whereas (near) simply means you have to be close, but not extremely. (far) means about a half-kirby away.
Mario: u-tilt (back)
Luigi: u-smash (front)
Peach: Jab (close), u-smash (far)
Bowser: u-smash (front)
DK: u-smash
Diddy: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)
Yoshi: u-smash, u-tilt
Wario: u-smash, u-tilt
Link: u-tilt (facing), f-smash (2nd hit)
Zelda: u-smash, u-tilt, f-tilt, jab
Shiek: u-tilt (back), jab (close, 1st hit)
Ganon: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab, f-tilt, f-smash
Tlink: u-smash (back)
Samus: u-smash, u-tilt (back), jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash
ZSS: u-smash (back), u-tilt, jab (1st hit), f-tilt, f-smash (near)
Pit: u-tilt (back)
IC: u-smash (back), u-tilt
ROB: all except for 2nd hit of jab
Kirby: u-tilt (front)
MK: u-smash
D3: u-tilt
Olimar: none (all hit)
Fox: u-smash (back)
Falco: u-smash (back), f-tilt (back)
Wolf: u-tilt (back)
CF: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back), jab (1st and 2nd hit), f-tilt, f-smash
Pikachu: u-smash (back)
Ivysaur: u-smash (back)
Charizard: u-tilt
Squirtle: none (all hit)
Lucario: u-smash
Jiggs: u-smash (back), u-tilt (front)
Martha: u-tilt
Ike: jab (1st hit)
Ness: u-tilt
Lucas: none (all hit)
GaW: u-tilt
Snake: u-tilt (back), jab (1st, 2nd, and 3rd)
Sonic: u-smash (back), u-tilt (back)

Since this information is (imo), very unorganized, it would be greatly appreciated if someone could organize this into a chart. For example; the attacks could be placed at the top horizontally, and the characters down the left side vertically, then the intersecting boxes could be filled in with symbols denoting if snake is safe or not, and whay positions they need to be in.
(I would do this myself, but I have no computer)

Hey, I did a bunch of research on powershielding snake's jab, if you want to add that to the OP. It's really helpful to know who you're going to/can't be punished by if you try to do the full 3 jabs on them, and I feel a lot more people will view this thread than the one where this is posted.

Here's the link to my post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6574674&postcount=159

Well it seems like Havokk is going to be busy with the link boards for a while... if someone could possibly see if they can somehow find a way to update this (not sure how it's done, but it happened for the list of AT's thread) then maybe we can get this thread moving along again.

 

[SuSa]

Well it seems like Havokk is going to be busy with the link boards for a while... if someone could possibly see if they can somehow find a way to update this (not sure how it's done, but it happened for the list of AT's thread) then maybe we can get this thread moving along again.

I generally update every 3-4 things that I find out unless I'm not busy at all and have time to kill.

Updating it now, thanks for the bump. ---- But don't go shoving off my position

Also it's by merging threads, so that the old thread gets merged and has the information with the first, or just by quoting and making a new thread and removing the quote tags.

 

[Tub]

Updating it now, thanks for the bump. ---- But don't go shoving off my position

lol, I thought you stopped caring about this thread.

Also it's by merging threads, so that the old thread gets merged and has the information with the first, or just by quoting and making a new thread and removing the quote tags.

OH! this has always made me so curious!

 

[SuSa]

New thing to test:

After 90%, Ganon's up-b launch gets... weird... supposedly Falco can dair spike him right out of it!

Can Snake uair/bair at 91%+ against Ganon's up-B? If so, while it may not happen often, its a useful fact.

^ PS: Everything in this thread can be put into the "100 tips & tricks" handbook if anyone decides to make it


____

I will always care for MY threads on this board. My threads come before updating for anyone else, even if those threads are "more" important.

PS: I moved, so new computer, so I don't even have T*H*O*R or abit_rusty's info anymore =p so even if I could/wanted to I couldn't update their threads.