Move utilization week #6-Jab

Black_Heretic · Jan 11, 2009

Nair also does a pretty good job on weakening shields, a nade>nair on an opponent on a platform will basically break it if the shield isn't full

Natch said:
Yes I do.

good, keep the great info coming :D

Darxmarth23 · Jan 12, 2009

I love n-air. Chews through their percents. I don't like how it doesn't stay through the entire short hop. But then again, full hop is legit.

8AngeL8 · Jan 12, 2009

OMG, I love nair, it's so useful.

1. Full hop nair, especially when an opponent is above you on a platform. That effectively removes the landing lag problem afterwards.

2. Edgeguarding. Drop a 'nade, then full hop nair. They'll either get hit by the 'nair, or you'll have a fully cooked 'nade ready to go.

3. When you're trying to get back on stage from high up, this is a surprisingly effective move. I get out of Marth and Meta Knight juggles with this quite a bit.

4. It can actually beat out MK's glide attack if you time it right. Make sure the tip of the first hit clanks with the glide attack, then the next one will hit MK.

5. When someone is trying to get back on the ground from above you, fire a mortar and follow up with a nair. If they airdodge the mortar, they get hit by the 'nair because it last longer than an airdodge. The landing mortar covers your lag afterwards, too.

IxxI · Jan 12, 2009

8AngeL8 said:
OMG, I love nair, it's so useful.

2. Edgeguarding. Drop a 'nade, then full hop nair. They'll either get hit by the 'nair, or you'll have a fully cooked 'nade ready to go.

Never even thought about using a nade with nair to edge guard. Good stuff...

napZzz · Jan 12, 2009

do you shield drop a nade then nair? Or do you do something else to catch and cook it?

like throw up then full hop nair to catch it?

EmperorB-rad2kj · Jan 12, 2009

Dair is stronger & breaks sheilds easier, But Nair is inescapable. Dair doesn't always "stick" and you don't finish the move.

8AngeL8 · Jan 12, 2009

Shield drop the 'nade, then do the nair. You'll pick it up as the nair starts.

napZzz · Jan 12, 2009

8AngeL8 said:
Shield drop the 'nade, then do the nair. You'll pick it up as the nair starts.

lol I didn't know that.

How much time does that leave the nade left with before it explodes?

Shadow_of_Link · Jan 12, 2009

EmperorB-rad2kj said:
Dair is stronger & breaks sheilds easier, But Nair is inescapable. Dair doesn't always "stick" and you don't finish the move.

I think Nair can be smash DI'ed out of, but I've never seen anybody do it.

As for my view on it, I find it useful for edgeguarding when you have a mine or nade (or C4 for mindgames, lol) on the ledge. And the fact it does 28% is pretty **** too.

8AngeL8 · Jan 12, 2009

The nair can and will be tap DI'd out of by good players. That doesn't stop it from being a pretty good move, though. Even if you only connect the first two, it's a good damage builder and edge guard.

If you picked a 'nade up, 'nair and immediately throw it, it'll go a bit more than half the length of Smashville before exploding. It's pretty useful to have if they rolled behind or they just jumped back offstage to avoid your nair.

EmperorB-rad2kj · Jan 13, 2009

Well it can be dodged while on the edge. For say if an opponent could roll onto the stage dodging your Nair & destroy the mine or take no damage from C4, nade bcuz of invincibility frames.

magikguy · Jan 13, 2009

my favorite air attack is nair . Predicting people's jump is one of the best set ups lol . Gotta try the cooking grenade technique with nair.

IxxI · Jan 13, 2009

Shadow_of_Link said:
I think Nair can be smash DI'ed out of, but I've never seen anybody do it.

As for my view on it, I find it useful for edgeguarding when you have a mine or nade (or C4 for mindgames, lol) on the ledge. And the fact it does 28% is pretty **** too.

It can be TDI'd and SDI'd out of.

SuSa · Jan 13, 2009

I'll be back soon to update my post, sorry for being gone for so long.

Also Nair is starting to lose its effectiveness against any who know about TDI and SDI, use it once or twice and see if they DI out. If they do DI out, use it more as a suprise move.

Using against Wario's who keep SDI'ing out of it from a grab release for example, is a bad idea... you can get more damage doing something else I believe. (SH c4 stick utilt anyone? XD /untested on a real player)

DeadX · Jan 19, 2009

i use nair after a ledgedrop for edgeguarding, and i also use it when my opponent is hanging on the edge.
i usually just plant a mine so if they get up or get up attack they hit the mine, and when i see them doing their get up animation i do a full hop nair. if they jump, (which is usually the case against most of my opponents) it hits them. if they roll, you di towards them and you can still do a lot of damage.
it works a lot, especially if your opponent is experienced at fighting snakes, and expect the C4 mine combo, which is easily countered by a jump.
it kills at higher percentages too.

Tero. · Jan 20, 2009

New move please

Taeran · Jan 20, 2009

DeadX said:
It kills at higher percentages too.

As does most/all of Snake's moves.

magikguy · Jan 20, 2009

Up grab :0

Taeran · Jan 20, 2009

As in most smart one.

Tero. · Jan 20, 2009

Actually any move who isn't a throw or cypher will kill at high % iirc?
2 lazy 2 think about it lawl

magikguy said:
Up ~~grab~~ throw :0

fix'd

Black_Heretic · Jan 20, 2009

I think every move except dthrow + cypher kills

(well, cypher has been known to get pretty weird kills lol)

DeadX · Jan 20, 2009

sorry i wasn't thinking...

and btw downthrow off of the ledge can create some weird results...

SuSa · Jan 21, 2009

Tweaked "usefulness" levels.

Updated the past missed 3 weeks ^^; (remind me if I missed anything. Yes Fair is THAT useless, but I'll think of linking to posts that say it can be used. ~~when it cant~~)

Next week now pl0x?

Black_Heretic · Jan 22, 2009

so what'll be the next new move?

g-regulate · Jan 22, 2009

my favorite move! i often spam it. flicking up on the control stick and immediately pressing jump+A makes you double jump nair from the ground, letting you land with no lag! amazing!! what a beastly move!!

napZzz · Jan 22, 2009

I'll change the move now guise.

Lets start with jab. My favorite move of snakes personally.

My input on jab. This move is amazing, there is so much to do with it. It has a **** load of priority, and here are some of its uses when you cancel it.

-Jab-ftilt, this is amazing. Just cancel the jab and ftilt. It does alot of damage and looks bad ***.
-Jab-grab. This is a little tricky because there are a few different ways of doing it. If you jab someone in the air, the jab will suck them in a little bit allowing you to do a standing grab and land it. If you dont jab them when they are airborne, they will go back a little and you have to move to do the grab. people will mostly shield after a jab because they assume the jab-ftilt is coming. If you tip the jab, you can just walk a little and grab most of the time.
jab-utilt-This only works if you jab them when they air airborne.

Just remember jab is very lagless and it also clashes or beats out alot of moves. abuse it.

Note that they can shield it after the first hit if you go for all 3 if I'm correct, unless you catch them in the air.

Budget Player Cadet_ · Jan 22, 2009

^what he said. I abuse it a lot. One of the fastest "smashes" in the game, and by the time I get there, I usually have abused ftilt a little too much, and I am AWFUL with utilt (don't ask why...).

Ken Neth · Jan 22, 2009

Here's one mind game that gets people is a lot. When you're standing really close to them shield drop a grenade and then roll behind them and just hold A to do the multi jab thingy. More often than not they will roll away from the grenade right into your jab.

The multi-jab thing is also great for punishing spot dodgers, because it doesn't initiate the jab till you actually hit them. (I'm not 100% sure of this cause I just barely thought of it. I'll try it out later today.)

I'll do more later. I have to run to class XD

Hot_ArmS · Jan 25, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNYHc2419eo&fmt=18

fair ****

magikguy · Jan 25, 2009

must feel good spiking dedede out of his recover lol

EmperorB-rad2kj · Jan 28, 2009

Kool idea I main snake as a 2nd but I'll try that. My friend is a freakin monster wit snake. I use to be able to beat him easily. Now i gotta try atleast

8AngeL8 · Jan 28, 2009

Jab is easily one of Snake's best moves simply for the things it interrupts. Most aerial approaches and WoP's can be stopped with the first hit of the jab when timed right. Having trouble with DK's bair's? Shield the first then do a single jab to knock him down, then Ftilt him in hitstun. It's amazing against any aerial attack.

It works disgustingly well in close range combat, too. Someone right up in your face? First hit of the jab solves that, too. It's quick and has a bunch of hitstun, so you can lead into Ftilt or grab, or the full jab, or Dtilt, or Utilt. The hitbox even extends a little behind him, so if someone rolls right behind you, you can throw out a jab and then pivot into a tilt or a grab.

Basically, this is by far one of Snake's moves for getting people out of his face so he can continue camping.

DeadX · Jan 29, 2009

its good for racking up damage if you keep pressing a after you grab. you'll choke them and then when they break free the jab attack will (hopefully) hit them.

SamuraiPanda · Jan 29, 2009

Can anybody do some research into why/when the third hit of Snake's jab gets powershielded? The move would be far better if I know when I can safely finish the hits.

napZzz · Jan 29, 2009

SamuraiPanda said:
Can anybody do some research into why/when the third hit of Snake's jab gets powershielded? The move would be far better if I know when I can safely finish the hits.

I'm guessing no hitstun means its too slow for it to be able to hit the 3rd time since snake makes a motion where he turns his body around for a kick, and during that time they can power shield

Ken Neth · Jan 29, 2009

SamuraiPanda said:
Can anybody do some research into why/when the third hit of Snake's jab gets powershielded? The move would be far better if I know when I can safely finish the hits.

It depends on the characters size/weight and what percentage they're at. I just tested this out, and with big characters such as bowser, the third jab could be shielded pretty much every single time, until they have too much damage. But then using light characters, such as metaknight, I couldn't get the shield off once.

The reason this happens, is that light characters get popped up into the air long enough for the third one to hit before they land on the ground. But then heavy characters fall faster and so they land on the ground and have enough time to get their shield up before the third hit hits them. This happens because the third hit comes out slower than the first two.

*Once these heavy characters get up to a certain %, they get popped into the air too far to get on the ground and shield the third hit.*

Also, it is possible to smash DI out of the jab. With both MK and Bowser, I was able to smash DI far enough from the first two hits to be out of range for the third, regardless of the spacing of the jab.

I'll do more research on this later. I have to go to class.

luke_atyeo · Jan 29, 2009

I just wanna go back to nair for a sec sorry, IDK if people already know this but
I'd just like to point out that marth can up-B out of the last hit of nair, however if you SH nair
and ff it and he up-b's he'll miss you and be open for a fsmash.

Ken Neth · Jan 29, 2009

You can also footstool to nair.

I've never seen it or heard of it before, but when I was fighting in a team match at a tourney I got it off. You can imagine I was like "WTF!!" haha.

I have the vid of that match, i'll upload it soon.

Ken Neth · Feb 6, 2009

Power Shielding the Jab

Okay, I did some more testing with the Jab, and who can Power Shield it. I could not come up with anything that made sense as to why certain characters could and others couldn't. Character weight, height, and falling speed don't seem to relate to who can and who can't PS the jab. (Not counting the bottom section, which is clearly height.) So I'll just list which characters fall under the different sections.

When testing, I found that there were four areas of the jab. They aren't necessarily different hitboxes, except for the tip, but they all get different results. Here's a picture of what I found.
Note: This is not an exact replication of where the different "hit boxes" are, it is just to give you a general idea of where they are.

1. The area furthest from snake (the "tip") results in the character being popped into the air by the first two hits, and it is impossible for any character to PS the last hit.

2. The area 2nd furthest away from snake (red) is an area where all characters can avoid the third jab because (a) they get knocked too far away by the 1st or 2nd hit for remaining jabs to connect, or (b) they have more time before the third hit hits them and they are able to PS the final hit. Note: This area is really small and hard to hit with, so I wouldn't worry too much about this.

3. The next area (yellow) is where the normal jab is. This area is what the following chart applies to, because this is the only section where there is variation depending on which character you are fighting.

4. The last area (green) is when the character is pretty much directly on top of snake. This "hit box" is almost exactly the same as the yellow one, and characters are rarely ever this close to snake for it to really make a difference. The only thing that changes is that some characters who are able to PS in the yellow section are not able to PS the last hit. But since the chances of getting a character that close to you in an actual match and how small the "hit box" actually is, I didn't bother including it in here.

Characters that Cannot Power Shield your Jab
Captain Falcon
Diddy
G&W
Ganondorf
Ics
Jigglypuff
DDD
Kirby
MK
Peach
Pit
Ivysaur
ROB
Samus
Wolf
Yoshi
ZSS

Characters that Can Power Shield your Jab
Bowser
DK
Falco
Fox
Luigi
Pikachu
Snake
Sonic
Toon Link
Ike ***
Link ***
Lucario ***
Mario ***
Marth ***
Charizard ***
Sheik ***
Wario ***
Zelda ***

*** = They can only power shield if they are DI-ing away from snake. This is difficult to do if the person is not expecting the jab and is ready to DI back.

Characters that aren't even hit with the complete jab
Lucas
Ness
Olimar
Squirtle

Unless these characters get "tipped," or they are right on top of snake (the two green "hit boxes"), or they are DI-ing into snake, they get hit too far away to be hit with the remaining jabs.

Note: All characters can Smash DI out of the 1st and/or 2nd hits to avoid being hit by the third jab.

napZzz · Feb 6, 2009

that was a badass post

hmm guess since havokk's gone I'mma have to move all the move summaries to my post or something ~_~

Move utilization week #6-Jab

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Fence

Smash Hero

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Fence

Banned via Administration

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Banned via Administration

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

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