Move utilization week #6-Jab

[napZzz]

So I see every other thread, and I figure, hey, why not make one for the snake section

I want this thread to help players evolve from lmaotiltandnades into using snakes full moveset well and ownin hard At the end of every week (or shorter if you guys want) I'll compile what everyone says and make a summary on it.

WEEK #6-JAB
This move is ****ing amazing.

View havokks 3rd post for summaries of the moves, I'll note anything important about the moves as we go along myself also, like kill percentages, or anything extra that need be noted.




Plz keep this active, and maybeh a sticky

 

[CouRt]

i usually used dair right out of shield if they attacked me with a laggy move such as a fsmash or something. you can kill small characters like lucas and what not around 60% at the edge of fd without proper di very easily.

 

[SuSa]

Week #1 Dair 6/10 for Usefulness
Discussion Held Pages 1-3, up to reply 39

General Info:

• Pressuring low level shields. (If their shields a little under half, this can break it)
• OOS punisher (Jump > Dair if you powershield, or even sometimes just shield a laggy attack.)
• Best aerial for DI (Quickest Aerial + Auto Fast Falls with C-stick)
• Must be double-hopped to avoid landing lag (because who likes landing lag?)
• Relatively low priority (don't try to use this against any Usmashes....)
• Great to use from a Dthrow tech-chase if you can read your opponent
• Good edgeguard move vs certain recoveries when below stage (not all though, and others you have to get lucky)
• Good for punishing spotdodgers
• Can go from Jab to Dair to mix up "Out of Jab" *OOJ* attacks.
• First 3 hits have no knockback, only hitstun.
• Last hit has good knockback
• 4 hit move obviously

Damage Per Hit:

Training Mode:
6 damage First Hit
5 damage Second Hit
5 damage Third Hit
12 damage Fourth Hit
Total damage: 28%



Versus:
6 damage First Hit
5 damage Second Hit
5 damage Third Hit
13 damage Fourth hit
Total damage: 29%


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Week #2 Uair 5/10 for Usefulness

General Info:

• Can land without lag if done from a rising short hop
• Has a sweetspot
• Sweetspot has great knockback, and makes a good finisher.
• Disjointed hitbox makes it great for juggling when below opponent.
• Great for a followup to an explosion (mine/c4/nades)
• Second best aerial for DI
• Use this for non-fatal moves when you DI, that way you recover your ability to use specials and other aerials sooner!
• Uthrow/Utilt can lead into this

Damage Per Hit:

Training Mode:
15 damage First Hitbox (sweetspot)
14 damage First Hitbox
10 damage Second Hitbox]



Versus:
15 damage First Hitbox (sweetspot)
14 damage First Hitbox
10 damage Second Hitbox



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Week #3 Fair 1/10 for Usefulness

General Info:

• Spiking
• Being used by mistake

Damage Per Hit:
Sweetspot does 1% more then Sourspot

Who cares

Week #4 Bair 7/10 for Usefulness

General Info:

• Large hitbox (little past feet, almost to neck)
• Quick to come out
• End lag isn't horrible
• Can be a powerful move when sweetspotted
• Good edgeguarding move
• Can get you out of a juggle
• High ending lag if you end it on the ground
• Cancels out some projectiles
• Disjointed hitbox makes it good to hit people out of aerials (MK's Up-B)

Damage Per Hit:

Click Me


Week #5 Nair 8/10 for Usefulness

General Info:

• Multiple hit move
• "Sucks" people into the move unless they SDI out
• Powerful knockback
• Must be full hopped to use all kicks, with some landing lag, or double hopped to land without lag
• Great edgeguarding move
• Disjointed hitboxes
• Beats out many other aerials with good timing
• Can push people off of platforms if they try to shield it, allowing you to hit with the remainder of it.

Damage Per Hit:

Training Mode:




Versus:

Nair is 28% of ****. 'Nough said

 

[Taeran]

Might want to note that it does 28%, I don't have time for much else.

 

[napZzz]

so I have a question. How long should we spend on each move? LIke a week? I doubt it should take that long to get good results, but then again I dont wanna miss out on anything. A week also sounds too slow.

Opinions? Also keep it up, good work so far.

 

[SuSa]

Whenever we've finished discussing it.

Look at my stage thread, and the "weekly" matchup thread.

I can spend 4 hours on it, 30 minutes, or 3 weeks.

However long it takes to get the information + if we happen to miss something, we can always add it in later.

 

[magikguy]

I use this move mostly on doubles . Works great on large characters , or to punish side dodgers (pika , rob , wario , dedede )

 

[Tub]

first thing you should do is change that blue font...

 

[Taeran]

Yeah, when we finish it. Which will probably within a week due to the fact of winter break, and because our few active members are extremely active.

 

[napZzz]

O RLY

whats wrong with blue ._.

And I guess I'll change it, I just wanted to make it colorful ;D

 

[IxxI]

I use it mostly to punish roll spammers, out of the shield, and king DDD

 

[SuSa]

O RLY

whats wrong with blue ._.

And I guess I'll change it, I just wanted to make it colorful ;D

Want a list of colors that are ok to use?

The rest are just annoying to read.

Cyan
Lime
Lemon Chiffon
Pink (Bolded preferred)
Medium Turquoise
Plum
Red
Pale Turquoise (Bolded preferred)



ps:
You can just use my first post =p

 

[napZzz]

I'm using cyan cuz its the same game and watch color I use

 

[TwentyTwo]

I find Dair is best for a change up in moves for killing, but everyone else said everything except Jab -> Dair which was the change up I was talking about, and dthrow -> dair is pretty good too.

 

[napZzz]

How does jab-dair work? Is it meant as a method for breaking shields, or landing it if they spot dodge or something?

Explain more plz.

 

[SuSa]

It breaks shields, and also they normally don't expect it.

Jab > Jab Cancel > Sh Dair

It works, just not everytime obviously.

 

[Lawlmahbawls]

Yeah, Jab -> Dair works best when your opponet expects you to jab -> ftilt, since it is a very common Snake combo. They will try to sheild it and you end up destroying their sheild.

 

[Roderick]

SH dair does not do the fullattack right?

 

[SuSa]

SH dair does not do the fullattack right?

It does, so long as its a SH (rising) dair (do the dair right after you SH)

 

[Teaddiction]

I use after evading, with short hop. Evade, short hop DAIR...almost 90% of the times efective...whole damage.

 

[TwentyTwo]

It breaks shields, and also they normally don't expect it.

Jab > Jab Cancel > Sh Dair

It works, just not everytime obviously.

Yeah Havokks got it, but it's just that they won't expect it, if you've been jab -> ftilt or jab-> something else. Shield breaks, excessive spot dodgers, and then connecting jab and all 4 kicks is ****. These are all things jab -> dair is good for, but yeah a change up and something to toss out once in awhile is the main point.

 

[yellowroy]

Havokk already put every use for the Dair I know.

 

[DMG]

Dair is somewhat risky to use on people shielding; once they learn to roll in between hits it leaves Snake pretty open. Now if their shield is low enough that 1-2 kicks would break it, then you would still be better off doing something safer.

 

[napZzz]

I've faced some people before who have used it as an edge guarding method also, predicting a roll up from the ledge with a dair, and I think that I've seen it go over get up attacks ._. could anyone test this?

also how useful do you think this move is on a scale of 1-10?

 

[SuSa]

1. Did you see my Snake video guide on Edgeguarding? I mention using it for an edgeguard.
2. It's uses to punish rolls/spotdodges, so I'm not suprised.
3. A lot of moves go over getup attacks :/

7.

It's really useful, can KO, a little hard to land, kills at low %'s, 4 hits, used for DI (highly important) but has its flaws... (punishable, has to be tech-chased basically...

 

[TwentyTwo]

I've been meaning to ask about that. Havokk are you sure Dair is best for DI? I've seen a lot of Uairs to DI. Just curious if there was a thread or something on it

 

[SuSa]

I've been meaning to ask about that. Havokk are you sure Dair is best for DI? I've seen a lot of Uairs to DI. Just curious if there was a thread or something on it

I haven't had time to update frame data, but dair is the fastest + auto fast falls with c-stick.

When hit sideways: Use Uair so you don't FF yourself into a horrible position... + you're trying to DI into the corner, so uair and hold up enough to reach the corner as best as you can.

When hit up/diagnolly: Use dair, you want to FF to avoid a star KO, plus its your best aerial to use for DI, you can use dair and still aim yourself for the corner, just not when you're hit by a move like Jigglypuff's Dsmash...


If you want I can make a video of me DI'ing a Marth Fsmash (non tipped) to show exactly how much better dair is compared to the other aerials.

 

[TwentyTwo]

No, I got it. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks Havokk ^^.

 

[SuSa]

No, I got it. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks Havokk ^^.

You're welcome, and I'll be making the video anyways so I have real evidence rather then going off of theory.

So I'll be living off of insane %'s of Marth's fsmash, and maybe even Jigglypuffs dsmash to show why uair>dair in that case.

 

[TwentyTwo]

You're welcome, and I'll be making the video anyways so I have real evidence rather then going off of theory.

So I'll be living off of insane %'s of Marth's fsmash, and maybe even Jigglypuffs dsmash to show why uair>dair in that case.

That's cool. Looking forward to it.

Back on the subject of dair though, part of it's awesomeness, is that you're in the air. So if you can predict what someone is going to do you could potentially avoid their attack and coming down with a dair on them. We snakes like to avoid the air, but a good portion of our game is also predicting our opponent's movements, this is just something to think about. I know I've hopped over MK's dsmash a few times to dair him.

 

[Staco]

You said jab cancel.
With jab cancel you just mean to do the first hit only, right?
Or is there something to cancel it faster? :o

 

[SuSa]

You said jab cancel.
With jab cancel you just mean to do the first hit only, right?
Or is there something to cancel it faster? :o

Jab > Tap and release down on the analog stick to cancel Jab > SH dair

Jab cancel = tapping and releasing down (quickly) during the first or second hit of a multiple hit Jab (you can't jab cancel Meta Knights jab, that I know of )

It's slightly faster then pausing for the animation to stop.

 

[Staco]

Ah, okay.
I knew this with Ike, but I didnt know other characters can do this.
But MK can do Mach FTilt instead of Jab Cancel. ;D

Shall I just tap down, or hold down until my characters goes down?

 

[SuSa]

Ah, okay.
I knew this with Ike, but I didnt know other characters can do this.
But MK can do Mach FTilt instead of Jab Cancel. ;D

Shall I just tap down, or hold down until my characters goes down?

You do the same thing as you do with Ike, just tap down.

 

[napZzz]

Soo I feel like theres enough to finish this up already...but I just wanna know how good you guys think this is on a scale of 1-10.

 

[SuSa]

7.

10sevens

 

[TwentyTwo]

7.22

Needs more 22 around here. :D

 

[napZzz]

7 seems fine...its just a little too situational but a good move. I'm gonna summarize and update then.

 

[SuSa]

You can do your summarizing and updating, and I'll keep my post 2 posts under updated as well... lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6151956&postcount=3

weeee

 

[napZzz]

Uair Time Nao Biches Post Yo Set Ups And Uses For It

EDIT:O I C WHAT U DID THAR HAVOKK

You can put updates for it in your 2nd post I guess, And I can make short summaries then?