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Ness should be banned
- Thread starter da K.I.D.
- Start date
Crystanium
Smash Hero
Ness mains and people who have heard of how FOW is a great Ness main like me are quite happy for FOW. See, people already knew about M2K and Ally. Big deal. Then FOW, a number of people who were aware of him, but not that he was such a big name like Ally, comes around and beats Tyrant, who is well-known and has been mentioned many times before in the past, gets beat by a Ness main who shines like the sun after Smash in Nevada. A Ness main in fourth place!
Yeah, and Meta Knight and Snake are 55:45. Wonderful.
Which is still a significant difference. If it's not, then I'll be beating Diddy Kongs all day with my Samus.
You're more than welcome to leave. No one is forcing you to return here like a dog returns to its vomit. You're the one who came in here and started johning for Tyrant. You didnt have to do that. You didn't have to come around this thread and try to ruin the fun for every Ness main.
Yeah, and Tyrant would probably get *****. It's not like FOW doesn't know how Marth works. I mean, after all, I've heard about how he fought Mike Haze's Marth and was trashing him, and the only reason why FOW lost was because he thought he was going to land safely on the stage, and thus did not use his PK Thunder properly. Not to mention, FOW has experience against Marths. This kid knows what he's doing.
lain
Smash Master
Ness is low tier Susa, why are you so adamant about leaving that painfully obvious fact out?
Ness is a bad character. That's just how it is. To see FOW doing well at a tourney is nice and all, but people obviously didn't know the matchup.
Inexperience in the matchup can make a huge difference. For example, Anther plays Pikachu. Now, he is obviously one of the top players in the nation, but a driving force behind him ****** a lot of people is due to their unfamiliarity with the Pikachu matchup. He still ***** people with skill, but them not knowing the matchup makes it a hell of a lot easier.
FOW did well. Kudos to him, no doubt. You obviously can't deny what happened, a BAD character beating the BEST character. Two smart players playing each. However, FOW knew the matchup EXTENSIVELY (as does most of world), while Tyrant knew of Ness and his capabilities, but was unclear as to what exactly a smart player would do with Ness.
Ness is a bad character. That's just how it is. To see FOW doing well at a tourney is nice and all, but people obviously didn't know the matchup.
Inexperience in the matchup can make a huge difference. For example, Anther plays Pikachu. Now, he is obviously one of the top players in the nation, but a driving force behind him ****** a lot of people is due to their unfamiliarity with the Pikachu matchup. He still ***** people with skill, but them not knowing the matchup makes it a hell of a lot easier.
FOW did well. Kudos to him, no doubt. You obviously can't deny what happened, a BAD character beating the BEST character. Two smart players playing each. However, FOW knew the matchup EXTENSIVELY (as does most of world), while Tyrant knew of Ness and his capabilities, but was unclear as to what exactly a smart player would do with Ness.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
you, sir, are quite skilled in the art of integrating similies into your arguements to get your points across.
There are a few things that FOW has proven by almost winning a set against M2K and beating Tyrant:
1. Low tier characters, such as Ness, are deadly due to the mystery that surrounds them. You MIGHT play one Ness at a tournament, but you'll play about 10-15 MKs/Snakes/DDDs/G&Ws. As it has been said before, low tiers have an advantage in this respect.
2. Ness can be good if he is used correctly. Since the beginning of competitive Melee, there have been "character heroes" that play low tier characters but consistently place well in tournaments. Deva, a brawl Washington Link main, almost beat DSF at a Washington tournament and created a similar amount of hype that we see today with FOW. There will always be that one or two people who are incredible with a particular low tier character. If those one or two people are the only ones who place well with "X character" in low tier, it cannot be assumed that said character should move up in the tier list.
There are a few other points that FOW has not yet proven:
1. Consistency will tell if FOW can compete with pros like Tyrant and M2K. If FOW places in the top 4 at genesis and sends M2K to losers bracket, then it will be safe to say that FOW (Ness) can go against top tier characters such as MK. M2K says he was "off" in the game he played with FOW, so I doubt he'll make the same mistake again and chances are that he will demolish FOW the next time that they play.
2. If FOW manages to beat another top MK at an important tourney and the community is actually given videos, then we can talk about match-ups and such. As it stands now, the main reason why FOW beat Tyrant and M2K is match-up ignorance.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
The ONLY exceptable thing to say after a match like that is,
"I got outplayed and he was better than me at the time. but I will get better and beat him the next time we cross paths"
I dont want to hear no crap aobut who hasnt played who, and who doesnt have experience, and who got gayed by who in the match before.
It sounds like tyrant needs to talk to my boy Kage about the Warrior's philosophy, cus if hes trying to say that some that happened entirely before and completely independant from his match with FOW, had any effect on the match, than he seriously needs to step his game up
"I got outplayed and he was better than me at the time. but I will get better and beat him the next time we cross paths"
I dont want to hear no crap aobut who hasnt played who, and who doesnt have experience, and who got gayed by who in the match before.
It sounds like tyrant needs to talk to my boy Kage about the Warrior's philosophy, cus if hes trying to say that some that happened entirely before and completely independant from his match with FOW, had any effect on the match, than he seriously needs to step his game up
Bartolon
Smash Lord
This guy is saying the truth
*JuriHan*
Smash Master
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It is fair to say that Tyrant and M2K hadn't played a Ness of that caliber before but it seems a bit daft to think that they didn't know the match-up or had never played at least a decent Ness before. They just weren't well prepared for a Ness that good.
Now, wouldn't it also be fair to say that since M2K is the best MK and U.S. brawler and Tyrant is certainly up there that it is unlikely that FOW had played MKs of this caliber before (unless he has some secret 11 year-old brother who plays MK and is about to start dominating tournaments). He could know the match-up well and have played good MKs before but he hadn't played guys this good unless he had actually played M2K and Tyrant before (which would have given them experience with him as well).
I just think it is a weak argument to say that they hadn't run into a Ness this good before as it is also unlikely that FOW had run into MKs as good as them before.
Anyways, I am very happy for FOW. The Ness mains (like myself) are loving this because it gives us hope in our character that many of us had been losing hope in. I was starting to use Marth and Wario more lately but always loved Ness best and this gives me resolve to not give up on my true main. I think this is big news for Ness mains and FOW and really not for just about everyone else. I hope FOW continues to dominate and maybe proves himself worthy of being mentioned among the best smashers. That would make it big news for the community but he is not there yet.
Now, wouldn't it also be fair to say that since M2K is the best MK and U.S. brawler and Tyrant is certainly up there that it is unlikely that FOW had played MKs of this caliber before (unless he has some secret 11 year-old brother who plays MK and is about to start dominating tournaments). He could know the match-up well and have played good MKs before but he hadn't played guys this good unless he had actually played M2K and Tyrant before (which would have given them experience with him as well).
I just think it is a weak argument to say that they hadn't run into a Ness this good before as it is also unlikely that FOW had run into MKs as good as them before.
Anyways, I am very happy for FOW. The Ness mains (like myself) are loving this because it gives us hope in our character that many of us had been losing hope in. I was starting to use Marth and Wario more lately but always loved Ness best and this gives me resolve to not give up on my true main. I think this is big news for Ness mains and FOW and really not for just about everyone else. I hope FOW continues to dominate and maybe proves himself worthy of being mentioned among the best smashers. That would make it big news for the community but he is not there yet.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
You didn't catch my sarcasm with the LOLOLOLOLOL?
Talk about failing.
Because, it's cool FOW got that far but that's not really what they are going YEE-HAW! about. Ness is low tier but tiers != matchups. Ness could be high tier, mid tier, bottom tier, ****ing non-existant and hacked into the game tier, and it would make no difference so long as the matchup was 40:60 against him.
Overall ranked against the entire roster Ness is a "bad character" but ranked against only Meta Knight (which is what this Ness vs MK ordeal is about) Ness is the "slightly disadvantaged" character.
@TRAMD
Yes, but FOW has ran into many Meta Knights. I doubt Tyrant has run into even half that number of Ness's. (M2K may have but even then even he may have not.
M2K adapted and beat FOW in tournament. Tyrant did not, he lost.
I'd love to see a rematch sometime in the future simply to either prove FOW can constantly beat Tyrant or if Tyrant truly was matchup deprived.
Could somebody lock this ****ing topic? The talk about Tyrant not knowing **** about Ness and FOW knowing a lot about MK is becoming a bother. Hell, we can't be happy without other people who don't main MK or Ness getting butt hurt. I mean God forbid someone like lain beat M2K and people got really happy! But when it comes to this kid who deserves this recognition because he's always been good and nobody ever bothered saying anything, it's suddenly a brush off! Good job!
What's done is done. If you don't care about FOW, then get the hell out. And if I get infracted for this, it was well worth it.
What's done is done. If you don't care about FOW, then get the hell out. And if I get infracted for this, it was well worth it.
Crystanium
Smash Hero
Grow up, SuSa.
1. Sarcasm isn't as effective online as it is offline. 2. It wasn't funny.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I thought with how serious I was being the sudden LOLOLOLOLOL would be a give away for that sentence.
Even online, that should've been pretty obvious.
2. Sarcastic things don't need to be funny.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
My response to him was, because he isn't deserving of a better response.
I don't give a **** if I'm being rude. A lot of honesty could be taken as extremely rude.
"Do I like fat in this dress?"
"Yes"
*Slapped*
It's life, get over it.
I've argued my points and many people are agreeing with them or simply backing up what I said without agreeing to me directly. Those who aren't are taking this thread for the fun of it (which I probably should have, repeating myself 10,000 times just isn't as fun as saying LOL BAN NESS HES TO GOOD!).
People keep bringing up the fact that MK is top tier and Ness is low tier. The thing that pisses me off the most is that their spots in the tier list have absolutely nothing to do with the 2 characters fighting.
I don't give a **** if I'm being rude. A lot of honesty could be taken as extremely rude.
"Do I like fat in this dress?"
"Yes"
*Slapped*
It's life, get over it.
I've argued my points and many people are agreeing with them or simply backing up what I said without agreeing to me directly. Those who aren't are taking this thread for the fun of it (which I probably should have, repeating myself 10,000 times just isn't as fun as saying LOL BAN NESS HES TO GOOD!).
People keep bringing up the fact that MK is top tier and Ness is low tier. The thing that pisses me off the most is that their spots in the tier list have absolutely nothing to do with the 2 characters fighting.
Ness won't be banned ever :DNess should not be banned.
End of story.
Only character that has potential to be banned is mk and it's highly unlikely that they will ban him.
Fear The Force
Smash Cadet
I agree with Uffe's point; FOW and Ness deserve recognition from this. Not only did he defeat a player who is very good with Metaknight, but he also got 4th place at SIN.
Everything else is irrelevent. All this crap about Tyrant not knowing the matchup is johning. All this crap about "I would like to see this kid play him again" is johning.
Give FOW credit where credit is due. He is A FREAKING BEAST with Ness. 'Nuff said.
kennypu
Smash Journeyman
I agree. FOW beat Tyrant. fact. Why? doesn't matter, he beat Tyrant. get over it.I agree with Uffe's point; FOW and Ness deserve recognition from this. Not only did he defeat a player who is very good with Metaknight, but he also got 4th place at SIN.
Everything else is irrelevent. All this crap about Tyrant not knowing the matchup is johning. All this crap about "I would like to see this kid play him again" is johning.
Give FOW credit where credit is due. He is A FREAKING BEAST with Ness. 'Nuff said.
I seriously don't see the point of this thread -.-. people are just talking about tiers, and complaining for M2K and Tyrant. Uffe, I think you're totally right
SmashBro99
Smash Champion
Wow, no ****ing johns kids.
MK get ***** *****.
"Maybe he didn't know how to gimp Ness!?" rofl xDDDD
MK get ***** *****.
"Maybe he didn't know how to gimp Ness!?" rofl xDDDD
CarVac
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone know where to get the match? I don't quite know how to use the livestream.
The livestream is over. It ended about a day or two ago. Someone might have recorded every single match while on livestream, but I don't think anything has been posted up on YouTube. Even if it is posted up on YouTube, it'll probably look really crappy since YouTube kills the quality and since the livestream itself wasn't exactly HD quality.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
if you wanna know everything I'll just say it now
Foe is a really good player, although he's mostly really good vs MK compared to his other matchups. The first match I had with him he beat me last stock 150% on smashville and I was at 90%. He said he accidentally F smashed, but I accidentally drill rushed in front of him when I was trying to do up B. I counterpicked Delphino, won 2 stock high %, then he went FD, and I won 2 stock high %. That's the only match of the tourney I lost, since I 2-0d tyrant, 3-0d dsf, and 3-0d SK92, and 2-0d everyone else.
I beat Tyrant in a last-hit game on Battlefield, but I wouldn't say I got lucky because I did do 30 more damage than he did and I did get off the ledge instead of planking when I was up 2 stock to 1. He tried to plank in the last like ... I forget like... 20 seconds or so of the game but then I drill rushed to the edge then followed him to the bottom of the stage to Dair him. I guess it's kinda lucky, and the match was very even overall, but I defintiely think I deserved to win with the **** I had to pull outta my *** at the last second. He got frustrated from that, and then I ***** him badly on Yoshis Story and he quit out of it. It did not go to last game, he should not have won @ Bardull, I won both games fair and square. Just because it's close it means I should have lost? Seriously? No that's stupid.
Anyway from that point on he (Tyrant) was frustrated. He fought Foe on smashville, and had a good like 70 or 80% lead but then went for a glide attack and missed and then got spiked by Ness's Dair and got gimped. He went Delphino, and won a last hit game. On FD 3rd game, Foe Jv 2 stocked Tyrant, although I do think Tyrant was messing up more than usual.
Then later I played foe in 1 friendly and I was winning 30% to 50%, about to Dair his recovery and gimp him, but then I accidentally glided cuz I was holding X or something by accident and I got edge hogged and I ended up losing some random friendly because of that but who cares.
Foe also beat DSF in a close crew battle game, 3 stock to 3 Ness vs MK on FD, although it was last stock 100%+
Foe is a really good player, and definitely the best Ness (as well as only Ness that I know of)
that's everything you could want to know I think.
Foe is a really good player, although he's mostly really good vs MK compared to his other matchups. The first match I had with him he beat me last stock 150% on smashville and I was at 90%. He said he accidentally F smashed, but I accidentally drill rushed in front of him when I was trying to do up B. I counterpicked Delphino, won 2 stock high %, then he went FD, and I won 2 stock high %. That's the only match of the tourney I lost, since I 2-0d tyrant, 3-0d dsf, and 3-0d SK92, and 2-0d everyone else.
I beat Tyrant in a last-hit game on Battlefield, but I wouldn't say I got lucky because I did do 30 more damage than he did and I did get off the ledge instead of planking when I was up 2 stock to 1. He tried to plank in the last like ... I forget like... 20 seconds or so of the game but then I drill rushed to the edge then followed him to the bottom of the stage to Dair him. I guess it's kinda lucky, and the match was very even overall, but I defintiely think I deserved to win with the **** I had to pull outta my *** at the last second. He got frustrated from that, and then I ***** him badly on Yoshis Story and he quit out of it. It did not go to last game, he should not have won @ Bardull, I won both games fair and square. Just because it's close it means I should have lost? Seriously? No that's stupid.
Anyway from that point on he (Tyrant) was frustrated. He fought Foe on smashville, and had a good like 70 or 80% lead but then went for a glide attack and missed and then got spiked by Ness's Dair and got gimped. He went Delphino, and won a last hit game. On FD 3rd game, Foe Jv 2 stocked Tyrant, although I do think Tyrant was messing up more than usual.
Then later I played foe in 1 friendly and I was winning 30% to 50%, about to Dair his recovery and gimp him, but then I accidentally glided cuz I was holding X or something by accident and I got edge hogged and I ended up losing some random friendly because of that but who cares.
Foe also beat DSF in a close crew battle game, 3 stock to 3 Ness vs MK on FD, although it was last stock 100%+
Foe is a really good player, and definitely the best Ness (as well as only Ness that I know of)
that's everything you could want to know I think.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Hey look, it's what I thought.
It's Fow.
M2K speaks the truth. The end.
Levitas
the moon
So I leave, and credible people start posting here? weird.
Eagleye893
Smash Champion
Actually, Ness doesn't do extraordinarily poorly against anyone... just check the matchup thread. nobody makes his matchup less than 40:60. Averaged out with everyone's individual matchup it would seem that his matchups are nearly 50:50. I've always wondered why ness is a low tier if each matchup is winnable with skill, but i know it's because we need more of our ness mains to be like FOW and own those awesome ppls.
Levitas
the moon
That thread has some... questionable numbers...
For example, marth hard-counters ness at a 40-60?
For example, marth hard-counters ness at a 40-60?
Because people over estimate a character that's pk fire, dash grab, and WHATS THIS, JUMPING IN THE AIR AND TRYING TO HIT YOU WITH HIS PK THUNDER WAIT A SECOND ITS COMING AROUND BACK TO NESS! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
And by people I mean the Ness boards.
He has reasonable bases and reasonable options, a reasonable contender for lower mid tier.
And by people I mean the Ness boards.
He has reasonable bases and reasonable options, a reasonable contender for lower mid tier.
Crystanium
Smash Hero
I thought it was because you couldn't give a proper response.
I think you should care. You are a moderator, after all. Let's show how others are supposed to behave. I've had my bit of share with problems in the past, and I wasn't really all that kind. The people from my room would like me to set an example. You're a moderator. Try to do the same.
Meta Knight is tourney viable. Ness is not, or at least said not to be. That's why I've brought up top-tier and low-tier here. If you have a problem with that, you're more than welcome to leave. Apparently this thread doesn't annoy you enough to drive you away from it. And really, the only reason you were in here was to john for Tyrant. You've johned for him. There's nothing else to be said.
thesage
Smash Hero
The ness vs. Mk matchup isn't as bad as the majority of his other top tier matchups...
Chu was amazing with pichu in melee, but it doesn't matter cuz it's pichu lol. Maybe the guy did figure something out. IDK, I didn't watch the vids nor do I care about vbrawl.
Chu was amazing with pichu in melee, but it doesn't matter cuz it's pichu lol. Maybe the guy did figure something out. IDK, I didn't watch the vids nor do I care about vbrawl.
Man of Popsicle
Smash Lord
HE JOHNS!
Something I noticed about FOW that's interesting is he really stales up his bthrow.
This is like the revival of the ness boards.
I love all of your guys' bull**** opinions and hate on Ness' as a character.
Between this and the backroom character discussion...
I'm not surprised they don't put him below ganondorf out of spite.
FOW got fourth.
He beat good MK's.
He probably had to plow through good G&W's and good Marth's too. 30:70 match-ups IIRC, so look beyod these two or three matches.
On a side note, I'd like to note that Vegas has no Meta Knights not named Eagle, Trendsetter, or SK92.
On a side note, attempting to evoke hype is fun.
Kinzer
Mammy
Learn about/get @ the unsung heroes status.
There is a saying; "give credit where credit is due", silly though many people don't so much give recognition as they just bandwagon the hype.
...Hehe, how I have learned not to care about so many trivial things, I don't think FOW really cares about it either, he's a good player and it's not like this won't happen again so there's no need to make a big deal out of one little ordeal.
I Wonder how this hasn't locked yet, with so many mods, you woulda thought this would've gotten closed much sooner, but I guess something must've changed about "no threads about specific players."
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
FOW is just that amazing...
that kid is just breaking rules all over the place.
Ness does beat MK
Low tier doesnt beat high tier.
No threads about specific people.
lol
but this thread isnt about FOW actually, this thread is about banning an obviously broken character, with FOW being the main reasoning behind such a decision
that kid is just breaking rules all over the place.
Ness does beat MK
Low tier doesnt beat high tier.
No threads about specific people.
lol
but this thread isnt about FOW actually, this thread is about banning an obviously broken character, with FOW being the main reasoning behind such a decision
Browny
Smash Hater
theres enough johns in this thread to last an entire smash career