TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

_clinton · Jun 25, 2009

smashbot226 said:
1. SKILL- Both are tactical geniuses in war; Snake is a master of CQC and Submission Combat, whereas Wolf has his claws, teeth, and agility. Adding firearms into the mix changes things up though. Even though Wolf has more advanced technology, Snake has more experience with his own selection of tools, as Wolf's true power comes from his Wolfen- which, clearly, is not in the fight. So Snake wins in terms of skill; he's the super soldier, while Wolf is more of a mercenary pilot.

ADVANTAGE: SNAKE

Does Snake have a mark on his head for 3 million or so? Wolf is able to avoid being picked off by the most powerful government in the Star Fox universe...saying Snake has the advantage in skill may or may not be true...but if it is...it isn't by far...

smashbot226 said:
2. WEAPONS- Well, since things were evened out, I guess it'd be Wolf. Even with the bonuses given to Snake's weaponry, save grenades, technology wins the day against outdated weaponry. Even Octocamo is worthless: last I checked, Wolf is a canine, and is capable of detecting Snake by smell, sound, or EVEN sight- being a dog has its benefits.

ADVANTAGE: WOLF

Here is my problem with the Star Fox universe...the characters being animal has never really been talked about...just pointing that out for when people bring up Wolf being well...a wolf...

Still...Wolf have tracking stuff as well...

smashbot226 said:
3. PHYSIQUE- Given, Wolf is buff and tough, being a merc and all. But Snake... it's no exaggeration to say that Snake epitomizes physical perfection. He's the genetic super-soldier, born from the greatest soldier alive at the time. He managed to kill hundreds of enhanced, cybernetic monsters and thousands of trained soldiers, been through torturous conditions, and has saved the world at least four times. All while flaunting his headband and still in one piece. He's been hardened to the point of complete apathy. No question.

ADVANTAGE: SNAKE

Wolf is more than buff and tough...he is bigger and shown to be faster and stronger phys. than the rest of the Star Fox team as far as SFA's character bio goes (Wolf runs faster than all of them and has more health)

So you saying Snake is better phys. than Wolf again sounds like bull when Wolf is perfect when it comes to his phys. scores as well...

smashbot226 said:
4. ARMOR- Snake is a stealth soldier. He doesn't wear heavy armor, but has enough to block a few bullets. Wolf, however, has that freaky iron vest that adds spikes to the equation; not useful against the CQC master, but still useful to get him off balance. Even then, Snake's light armor can't really defend against Wolf's energy blasts, but Wolf can shrug off bullets with ease. Explosives are the deciding factor here, and since Snake has multiple types, like Smoke and EMP grenades, he could work around Wolf's technological advantage. Otherwise, Wolf has this.

ADVANTAGE: WOLF

I like how people don't bring up the barriers that are in SFA...oh and again I should bring up a reminder from another post I saw on here...EMP stuff wouldn't work on Wolf's gear...

smashbot226 said:
All in all, its skill vs. weaponry. Most of the time, it's weaponry that wins it, but Snake is different from your everyday Private Joe Dude. He's technically the strongest soldier who ever lived. Wolf is just a rebel mercenary that works for money. Morals might keep Snake from killing Wolf, but the greedy canine will happily rip Snake's throat out in a heartbeat for some cash.

Wolf's story for SFC and how his character has changed over the games shows that Wolf has more story to him than a "bad guy" role (like it or not)

Oh and to the person that said those with a futuristic tech. advantage are top tier...yeah...sorry but things that are gifted in a high level psychic power and such beat that...

TwentyTwo said:
Btw, I didn't read any rules on this thread whatsoever.

They are pretty dumb...so it doesn't matter ^_^

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

_clinton said:
Does Snake have a mark on his head for 3 million or so? Wolf is able to avoid being picked off by the most powerful government in the Star Fox universe...saying Snake has the advantage in skill may or may not be true...but if it is...it isn't by far...

Did Wolf save the world several times? Was Wolf genetically engineered to be a super soldier? Snake is able to pick off some of the biggest criminals in history... Snake has an advantage. Not super far from Wolf, but definitely enough to be better.

Here is my problem with the Star Fox universe...the characters being animal has never really been talked about...just pointing that out for when people bring up Wolf being well...a wolf...

Still...Wolf have tracking stuff as well...

Wolf being a wolf is most likely going to give him wolf-like senses... it's only common sense putting two things together.

Wolf is more than buff and tough...he is bigger and shown to be faster and stronger phys. than the rest of the Star Fox team as far as SFA's character bio goes (Wolf runs faster than all of them and has more health)

So you saying Snake is better phys. than Wolf again sounds like bull when Wolf is perfect when it comes to his phys. scores as well...

Right. Wolf is top in his games. But Wolf still wasn't created to be the perfect soldier...

I like how people don't bring up the barriers that are in SFA...oh and again I should bring up a reminder from another post I saw on here...EMP stuff wouldn't work on Wolf's gear...

EMP thing has kinda been abandoned already.

Wolf's story for SFC and how his character has changed over the games shows that Wolf has more story to him than a "bad guy" role (like it or not)

Oh and to the person that said those with a futuristic tech. advantage are top tier...yeah...sorry but things that are gifted in a high level psychic power and such beat that...

Yeah, but this is technically a fight in real life, making magic impossible. So that's out.

But that rule doesn't seem to apply, seeing as Ness and Lucas were able to keep their psychic powers in their fights.

This is an extremely close fight, so I'm gonna stick with it being pretty much even for now.

❀W.E.M.P.❀ · Jun 25, 2009

This reminds me of the character tier thing from a while ago (is that still around?)

I am not going to lie though, I know NOTHING about the SF games, so I can not say. Here is a relevant question though which everyone should ask themselves before chosing a winner; Did Wolf ever eat a pack a cigarettes then vomit them up. Also did the person who voiced Wolf ever star in the movie Guyver?

Badass points: Snake 1-Wolf 0

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

Zajice said:
Geez, I leave for a couple hours and the thread turns to Wolf again.

The thing here is that a lot of weapons people are giving Snake are kind of gimped.

I think it should be

Wolf: Grenades
Snake: Grenades (all types to make up for Wolf's stronger type)

Wolf: Blaster
Snake: SOCOM or whatever main gun he wants to use. Snake should also get a knife for the blade on Wolf's gun.

Wolf: Heat seeking rockets
Snake: Stinger Missile (heat seeking and junk, now it's even)

Wolf: Reflector
Snake: Octocamo (The best thing that he can hide behind without giving him complete invisibility, which is kinda cheap)

Something like that anyway... It seems a lot more balanced. Two basic weapons, with Wolf's being better with infinite ammo. Diverse grenades vs strong grenades, heat seeking rockets vs heat seeking rockets, and each of them have a unique device that they can hide behind.

It's still who the better soldier is, and that's obviously Snake. Wolf just can't pass up Snake in terms of skill.

Wolf should get that user guided missile if Snake gets the nikita, since they're more similar, and a cloaking device is lame if he already has a reflector to hide behind. And why does wolf get the ghost launcher? That's the overpowered weapon you get if you're getting owned. Regular rockets are just fine. :/ Same for sniper rifle... just use the regular one rather than the overpowered one...

Why does Snake get regular weapons but Wolf gets to have the super awesome version of all of his weapons?

Because then we are overly gimping one character so that another character can make up for his lack of options.

Happened with Falco and Falcon. It was not 'fair' that Falco could use all of his weapons so we gave him only a blaster. And that was bullsh*t. He would have definetly won if he had used his full power, or even half of it.

It's the same as a scrub saying that ' I can use all of my attacks because I use Ike, but since you are using Metaknight, you are not allowed to gimp me, to use the whorenado, to stall, to use the shuttleloop, to grab me, do aerials or combo me. So it's a fair fight'.

If we took away Wolf weaponry advantage we may as well say that Snake beated a weak Wolf at 1/3 of his power. And IMO that would be an empty victory.

_clinton · Jun 25, 2009

Zajice said:
Did Wolf save the world several times? Was Wolf genetically engineered to be a super soldier? Snake is able to pick off some of the biggest criminals in history... Snake has an advantage. Not super far from Wolf, but definitely enough to be better. Right, Wolf is top in his games. But Wolf still wasn't created to be the perfect soldier...

Wolf has had a hand in saving the Lylat galaxy (as in not world) more than one time...as well as a hand in it almost being destroyed just because of his hate for Fox...hell one of those events where he saved everyone made them think he was dead until Peppy showed up somehow (because Star Fox won't kill off major characters)

Also...I'm getting kind of sick of Snake being "a perfect soldier" getting him more credit in a fight then he truly has...

For one thing...he has the worse genes out of all of those 3 clones of Big Boss or so and of course isn't a perfect copy of him because only one of the clones was a perfect copy...and adding on to that its not like Big Boss was a super human anyway...

The definition of him being the world's best soldier, what is it anyway? From what I can tell from Big Boss...the guy was just a normal human anyway...who has had a very large military background...

That is given to a lot of fictional characters...including Wolf...and adding on to what Wolf is like...he saved Fox's life in SFA just because he is the one that wants to kill him and won't let anyone else do it...

Adding on to certain things that show off his personality...
"Don't hesitate. When the time comes, just act,"
If that is how he truly lives and thinks...than I can't see how he is not close to being seen as a perfect soldier as well...because he has one of Snake's traits that defines him...

So by default...Snake was a less then perfect clone with a lot of history in the military from before age 10 or so...which shows off his personality pretty well...and has a man made virus in him that kills at random in the end due to him being a clone or so and was the reason for him aging...

Wolf isn't a clone...but he is pretty darn fit and has the personality down...So if Snake is better by skill...I really don't see it as much...which makes me feel Wolf is more than a match for him as far as skill goes...

Zajice said:
Wolf being a wolf is most likely going to give him wolf-like senses... it's only common sense putting two things together.

I'm aware of your guys reason for Wolf having wolf-like senses...however, I'm just pointing out how the Star Fox series doesn't really view its characters as animal like (adding onto it I should point out that the number of "humans" that have been in that series is 0)

Zajice said:
EMP thing has kinda been abandoned already.

Good...just making sure

Zajice said:
Yeah, but this is technically a fight in real life, making magic impossible. So that's out.

But that rule doesn't seem to apply, seeing as Ness and Lucas were able to keep their psychic powers in their fights.

This is an extremely close fight, so I'm gonna stick with it being pretty much even for now.

I'm aware of what the rules are...however I just see it as being ****ing stupid to try and justify a real world fight in a bunch of things that aren't real (I'd like to point out that if this is truly real...I'm fairly certain we don't have Landmasters, Demon Sniper weapons in our time...and Snake himself isn't real as well because of what he is...but whatever)

Oh and the outcome for the Ness and Lucas evened out their PSI anyway...however, that fight was bad and quite pointless (They are pretty much the same character as far as role goes...think of how many Links are in the Zelda series...however overall they are seen as the same role as well)

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

payasofobia said:
Because then we are overly gimping one character so that another character can make up for his lack of options.

Happened with Falco and Falcon. It was not 'fair' that Falco could use all of his weapons so we gave him only a blaster. And that was bullsh*t. He would have definetly won if he had used his full power, or even half of it.

It's the same as a scrub saying that ' I can use all of my attacks because I use Ike, but since you are using Metaknight, you are not allowed to gimp me, to use the whorenado, to stall, to use the shuttleloop, to grab me, do aerials or combo me. So it's a fair fight'.

If we took away Wolf weaponry advantage we may as well say that Snake beated a weak Wolf at 1/3 of his power. And IMO that would be an empty victory.

You misunderstood what I was saying. Snake was being given a lame selection of weapons when he has much better ones. Wolf was given the better versions of his weapons when there are worse versions. Snake has better weapons but isn't allowed to use them, but Wolf is allowed to use his best weapons. That's what's unfair.

You basically described what was going on, only in reverse.

_clinton said:
Also...I'm getting kind of sick of Snake being "a perfect soldier" getting him more credit in a fight then he truly has...

Maybe not THE perfect soldier because, yes, he was the worst clone of the three (yet still beat his superior clone), but he is still arguably the best soldier on the planet...

The definition of him being the world's best soldier, what is it anyway? From what I can tell from Big Boss...the guy was just a normal human anyway...who has had a very large military background...

He was considered the best soldier genetically as well, which is why he was cloned in the first place. Definitely no "normal" human.

So by default...Snake was a less then perfect clone with a lot of history in the military from before age 10 or so...which shows off his personality pretty well...and has a man made virus in him that kills at random in the end due to him being a clone or so and was the reason for him aging...

The rapid aging was to terminate him early so that if he was ever forced to do anything for another country, he wouldn't last long because he would die prematurely. The Foxdie virus was overwritten with another strain that prevented the mutation that kills at random.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

I'm aware of your guys reason for Wolf having wolf-like senses...however, I'm just pointing out how the Star Fox series doesn't really view its characters as animal like (adding onto it I should point out that the number of "humans" that have been in that series is 0)

If Wolf doesn't have wolf-like senses, then Snake gets a huge sneaking advantage because he's nowhere near as easy to detect anymore.

I'm aware of what the rules are...however I just see it as being ****ing stupid to try and justify a real world fight in a bunch of things that aren't real (I'd like to point out that if this is truly real...I'm fairly certain we don't have Landmasters, Demon Sniper weapons in our time...and Snake himself isn't real as well because of what he is...but whatever)

Oh and the outcome for the Ness and Lucas evened out their PSI anyway...however, that fight was bad and quite pointless (They are pretty much the same character as far as role goes...think of how many Links are in the Zelda series...however overall they are seen as the same role as well)

I agree. The rules are kinda dumb. It should just be character vs character. If we followed real life only rules, Snake wouldn't exist because clones don't exist, and Wolf wouldn't exist because furries from space don't exist.

But jeebus people, I've already called the matchup even, and I think a lot of people would agree. There's a lot of things that make Wolf good, and a lot of things that make Snake good, but there's nothing that makes one completely superior over the other. It's just too close.

I see the battle as both of them just fighting it out until they're forced to end it, with no winner being decided.

JOE! · Jun 25, 2009

Zajice said:
I agree. The rules are kinda dumb. It should just be character vs character. If we followed real life only rules, Snake wouldn't exist because clones don't exist, and Wolf wouldn't exist because furries from space don't exist.

But jeebus people, I've already called the matchup even, and I think a lot of people would agree. There's a lot of things that make Wolf good, and a lot of things that make Snake good, but there's nothing that makes one completely superior over the other. It's just too close.

I see the battle as both of them just fighting it out until they're forced to end it, with no winner being decided.

The rules are like this because there is allready a character debate thread, where they are "true" to their games.

The Lucas vs Ness fight included their PSI in order to have it be interesting, instead of just 2 kids with sticks/bats. Also giving the fact that the PSI gave neither a ******** strong advantaage.

We can bend the rules a little bit here, we are just tryign to present the fights in a "realistic as possible" scene

Im also gonna call it after like, 7 pages of discussion?

500 / 500

The fight is even, Snake is much more skilled, yet has comparativley worse weaponary. Wolf has worse skill, but better weaponary.

Each has a tactic or weapon to counter each other, be it stealth or reflecting, claws and spikes or CQC and Strength, lasers or bullets.

The fight really comes down to the environment; the more confusing: snake wins, the more defined: Wolf wins.

When each fighter comes down to the environment, it's a draw as far as the fight is concerned, especially in the scenario I gave, where there are elements of both openess and enclosed.

The way I picture it, they would be fighting, each weapon being gone through, chasing each other, wolf's sense foiling snake's attempts at stealth, and teh reflector saving his hide from snake from time to time, while snake applys pressure via gunfire and traps. Then they inevitably go to melee, they scuffle, then end up in a stale mate, Snake having a bayonet (blade) at his throat while Wolf is in a kind of position where he can be taken down...but will slash snake if he tried.

Then, Slippy shows up and they both kill ......it? They realize each other's skill and respectfully pat each other on the back before parting ways, and explode moments later into little bits from the small detonators placed on each other.

~~~~

The end is probably not gonna happen, but I found it in good taste for a draw

If anyone finds problems with this, please say so before I finalize it

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

PERFECT AWESOME ENDING.

Everybody dies.

daisho · Jun 25, 2009

lol... i love it when everyone dies...

I think you should have given a judgement call and said like 507-493 but whatever...

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

Well, I think because of this thread, I have to go play Metal Gear AND Starfox again.

majora_787 · Jun 25, 2009

Slippy dies at the hands of two badass characters: One with weaker weapons, one with weaker skill. I actually expected a tie, even if I preferred Wolf.

Blitzmidfielder · Jun 25, 2009

No one can say they lost here. It's probably for the best; this was the biggest ****storm I've seen in a long time.

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

JOE! said:
The rules are like this because there is allready a character debate thread, where they are "true" to their games.

The Lucas vs Ness fight included their PSI in order to have it be interesting, instead of just 2 kids with sticks/bats. Also giving the fact that the PSI gave neither a ******** strong advantaage.

We can bend the rules a little bit here, we are just tryign to present the fights in a "realistic as possible" scene

Im also gonna call it after like, 7 pages of discussion?

400-600

The fight is even, Snake is much more skilled, yet has comparativley worse weaponary. Wolf has worse skill, but better weaponary.

Each has a tactic or weapon to counter each other, be it stealth or reflecting, claws and spikes or CQC and Strength, lasers or bullets.

The fight really comes down to the environment; the more confusing: snake wins, the more defined: Wolf wins.

When each fighter comes down to the environment, it's a draw as far as the fight is concerned, especially in the scenario I gave, where there are elements of both openess and enclosed.

The way I picture it, they would be fighting, each weapon being gone through, chasing each other, wolf's sense foiling snake's attempts at stealth, and teh reflector saving his hide from snake from time to time, while snake applys pressure via gunfire and traps. Then they inevitably go to melee, they scuffle, then end up in a stale mate, Snake having a bayonet (blade) at his throat while Wolf is in a kind of position where he can be taken down...but will slash snake if he tried.

Then, Slippy shows up and they both kill ......it? They realize each other's skill and respectfully pat each other on the back before parting ways, and explode moments later into little bits from the small detonators placed on each other.

~~~~

The end is probably not gonna happen, but I found it in good taste for a draw

If anyone finds problems with this, please say so before I finalize it

Like I said, Snake may have better skill, but wolf does not simply cancel out the other's weaponry, he surprasses it. If both use their weakest weapons then Wolf's weakest weapons are still more useful and powerful than Snake's. And if we are giving them the best of the best, then Wolf heavily surprasses Snake. And if we give them full arsenal...boom, snake is dead.

Snake is more skilled and smart, but Wolf has better physiology, stamina, speed, armor, weapons, gadgets, has superior detecting abilities than him (radar+ senses) and has as much sneaking ability as Snake.

And Wolf has the best abbility to change the battlefield. His weapons can destroy metal easily, and he could:

Throw a few grenades on the crates to destroy them if weak.
Rocket the crates if average.
Or nuke them if strong.

TL;DR: Skill and smarts alone may win battles in anime and in your favorite video games, but in realistic fights, if your weaponry does not match-up, you are screwed. Just ask a genious with a knife, who fought a ****** with a shotgun.

But I see what you did there. Everyone wins so noone feels bad.

Anyway, now I seriously say that we pit the 2 speedsters ( except both won't be as fast as usual) in the game now.

Steak vs Meatknight!Sonic vs Metaknight...

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

payasofobia said:
-large post-

Anyway, now I seriously say that we pit the 2 speedsters ( except both won't be as fast as usual) in the game now.

Steak vs Meatknight!Sonic vs Metaknight...

It's even. Stop fighting the already finished battle. 9_6

I think Captain Falcon vs Sonic would be better, since they're both speed demons. But then again, Captain Falcon already got a fight in this thread.

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

JOE!-''If anyone finds problems with this, please say so before I finalize it.''

Anyway, I did not consider The Captain because ONE: he already fought TWO: because canonicaly, he is just an athletic guy, not a speedster and THREE: fast ground movement vs fast aerial attacks.

Zajice · Jun 25, 2009

Well what's the point of trying to barely push it in Wolf's favor? Your particular rating is close enough to even, and the rest of us see it as being even. So why can't we just except it as even? You're just making things more difficult by creating more arguments, the majority of which have already been covered over our 7+ pages as JOE said.

Right now, I could be talking about more reasons why Snake is better, but I'm not. :/

And I guess I could do Sonic vs MK. I don't have any objections to it. >_>

Edit: And I just noticed you pushed the rating even more in Wolf's favor... :dizzy:

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

Because an idiot with a shotgun has even chances of winning a fight as a genious with a knife. Or a smart kid can beat a muscular bully.

But you said it, let's stop arguing and lets begin the next fight. We just have to see if JOE! approves of the match-up.

smashbot226 · Jun 25, 2009

_clinton's comments on the previous match-up cannot be regarded as right in ANY sense. But that was yesterday.

However, I object to one thing: those numbers seem WAAAAAY off. They should be closer together. No matter the environment, Snake and Wolf would be one hell of a fight.

Okay, THIS one! Seems a little one-sided, but Sonic COULD keep up. I'd prefer if it were Ice Climbers Vs. Sonic: two people vs. one speed-demon.

------------------

1. WEAPONS- Err... Meta Knight has a sword and is a master of Star Warrior Style (made up lolz), while Sonic has his fists and spiky back, but no true style whatsoever. However, Sonic's TRUE weapon is speed, so he can run circles around Meta Knight, who may be able to keep up for a bit, but would fall behind.

ADVANTAGE: Sonic; with speed on his side, Sonic will run circles around Meta Knight's, while equally fast, sword attacks.

2. SKILL- Well, no question, Meta Knight is a master of his art. Sonic has no master fighting style. In fact, I'm pretty sure he only relies on speed to win. And Homing Attacks. But Meta Knight is smarter than the average emo puffball, and has his cape and speedy attacks as well. Though Sonic can close in easily, Meta Knight has the easier time of attacking with his rapid-speed sword slices.

ADVANTAGE: Meta Knight; He's just got the mastery, plain and simple.

3. ARMOR- Well, as I'm typing this, I realized how much of a difference THIS makes. Meta Knight wears armor (DURR) and punching him would probably hurt a bit. It could stun him at best, but Meta Knight's composure would allow him to recover. Sonic has no armor whatsoever and could die from two or three of MK's quick attacks.

ADVANTAGE: Meta Knight; Sonic just can't effectively get past armor of MK's to damage him.

4. PHYSIQUE- MK is small, fast, and very agile. He can also fly, which helps. Sonic, however, is fast, fast, fast, fast, and also VERY fast. Otherwise, he's pretty weak, light, and slow in the air. He could try to home-attack on MK, but the bat-ball could just slash at Sonic to keep him at bay.

ADVANTAGE: Meta Knight; the smaller, more agile, and aerially inclined combatant beats the grounded, yet speedy hedgehog.

------------------

So while Sonic could run circles around MK, MK can just keep Sonic at bay with equally fast sword slashes. Worse yet for Sonic, even if he DOES manage to land attacks, MK is small and most of his body is armored, causing little scratches from Sonic's punches and spins. To make matters even more lopsided, MK has wings, and can glide swiftly through midair, while Sonic can only home-attack when in this position. MK can just swipe Sonic to the side.

Poor hedgehog. Maybe if he drank more milk than chili dog shakes he could be better.

daisho · Jun 25, 2009

How can you do and why would you think of doing sonic vs MK... MK has a sword...

smashbot226 · Jun 25, 2009

Sonic is fast. Your point?

EDIT: Maybe I could help out with match-ups...

Next one could be any of the following:

Ice Climbers Vs. Olimar (Can the Dynamic Duo defeat the diminutive dynamo?!?)

Toon Link Vs. MK (Can the Mysterious Masked Meta defeat the Cel Elf?!?)

Zelda Vs. Lucario (Will the Princess of Pain fall to the Blue Bomb Bombardier?!?)

Sonic Vs. Fox (Can the fastest 'hog alive outrun lasers?!?)

Jigglypuff Vs. Peach (Two pink, ditzy, wide eyed cuties duke it out like men!)

Power Suit Samus Vs. Pit (Future vs. heaven; the battle of the millennia!)

Mr. Game & Watch Vs. Squirtle. (Is this LCD hero gonna be washed away by the reptilian rumbler?!?)

R.O.B. Vs. Wario (What happens when the glutton finds the indigestible?!?)

Yoshi Vs. Ivysaur (Lean mean green machines!)

Kirby Vs. Random (A battle of unknowns!)

_clinton · Jun 25, 2009

Zajice said:
Maybe not THE perfect soldier because, yes, he was the worst clone of the three (yet still beat his superior clone), but he is still arguably the best soldier on the planet...

Which could be more to do with how he was raised...

Zajice said:
He was considered the best soldier genetically as well, which is why he was cloned in the first place. Definitely no "normal" human.

Psycho Mantis was no normal human...tell me...what did Big Boss do again that made him more than human?

Hell I'd like to point out that Wolf and Big Boss have a lot in common...
1. They both have a bone to pick with some government...Big Boss' history has been talked about...but Wolf's is a mystery that seems to date back to Fox's father
2. They both lead a large group of people...for whatever reason
3. They both have an eye patch

Zajice said:
The rapid aging was to terminate him early so that if he was ever forced to do anything for another country, he wouldn't last long because he would die prematurely. The Foxdie virus was overwritten with another strain that prevented the mutation that kills at random.

I'm aware of what the virus was...thank you though

Zajice said:
If Wolf doesn't have wolf-like senses, then Snake gets a huge sneaking advantage because he's nowhere near as easy to detect anymore.

Except he has radar and stuff like that...

Zajice said:
But jeebus people, I've already called the matchup even, and I think a lot of people would agree. There's a lot of things that make Wolf good, and a lot of things that make Snake good, but there's nothing that makes one completely superior over the other. It's just too close.

I see the battle as both of them just fighting it out until they're forced to end it, with no winner being decided.

I think they have a lot in common...however I don't really see the match as even...

smashbot226 said:
_clinton's comments on the previous match-up cannot be regarded as right in ANY sense. But that was yesterday.

I like how people don't understand Mother's story...

smashbot226 said:
1. WEAPONS- Err... Meta Knight has a sword and is a master of Star Warrior Style (made up lolz), while Sonic has his fists and spiky back, but no true style whatsoever. However, Sonic's TRUE weapon is speed, so he can run circles around Meta Knight, who may be able to keep up for a bit, but would fall behind.

How can people think MK would win vs. Sonic...

Oh and saying Sonic has no style to his fighting and then saying he uses his speed is his main weapon is funny...but whatever...

Sonic has the chaos emeralds for a weapon as well as many other various power ups...

smashbot226 said:
3. ARMOR- Well, as I'm typing this, I realized how much of a difference THIS makes. Meta Knight wears armor (DURR) and punching him would probably hurt a bit. It could stun him at best, but Meta Knight's composure would allow him to recover. Sonic has no armor whatsoever and could die from two or three of MK's quick attacks.

Right...Sonic just has various barriers and such...

smashbot226 said:
ADVANTAGE: Meta Knight; Sonic just can't effectively get past armor of MK's to damage him.

Sonic gets past armor all the time though...however, I do question how Sonic would use his tornado making skills to remove armor from a fighter who has the skill to make tornado moves as well

smashbot226 said:
4. PHYSIQUE- MK is small, fast, and very agile. He can also fly, which helps. Sonic, however, is fast, fast, fast, fast, and also VERY fast. Otherwise, he's pretty weak, light, and slow in the air. He could try to home-attack on MK, but the bat-ball could just slash at Sonic to keep him at bay.

The Light Speed attack says hit to MK just smacking Sonic away...oh and how is Sonic slow in the air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Zjw8NW_UU

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

MK is canonicaly only 20 centimeters tall, but not in this fight. Otherwise, the fight would not be fun.

Also, I think it would be more realistic if we gave Sonic his sonic adventure 2 speed and acceleration. He is fast, and he has the potential to do mad hit and run rushes and tactics, but not on the level of the comics and the like. Also, his speed should make his attacks quite powerful, 3 times as strong as his Brawl attacks.

Also, the speed of light attacks have no place here. Unless Sonic's fur is fire-proof, he is going to burn because of the friction. And sonic should have low stamina too.

Metaknight should have his canon speed, which have bigger cooldown than Brawl's attacks, but are definetly much stronger. He could create small scale tornadoes and shoot beams, and he should have a good defense because of his armor and rubbery body.

He should have low, replendishable stamina. So if Sonic lands a good hit on him, he won't be alive to use his recovery magic.

So Sonic must kill Metaknight in one hit, otherwise he will just keep recovering a lot, but considering his fast attacks boost his strenght and makes him hard to hit, it may be easier than what it looks like.

Metaknight, on the other hand, must try not to get hit hard and try to counterattack with a sword strike, and since Galaxia is a very sharp sword and Sonic is somewhat weak...a single strike has the chance of crippling him if hit on the right spot. (Hint: his fragile, thin legs)

HEAVEN OR HOME FOR INFINITE LOSERS, LET'S ROCK!

smashbot226 · Jun 25, 2009

_clinton said:
Which could be more to do with how he was raised...

Psycho Mantis was no normal human...tell me...what did Big Boss do again that made him more than human?

Hell I'd like to point out that Wolf and Big Boss have a lot in common...
1. They both have a bone to pick with some government...Big Boss' history has been talked about...but Wolf's is a mystery that seems to date back to Fox's father
2. They both lead a large group of people...for whatever reason
3. They both have an eye patch

Click to expand...

1. Except Big Boss actually DID something about it. In fact, he did it twice. And he STILL lived through a fire and being exploded. Wolf always has his sissy eject button in his Wolfen. Big Boss needs none.

2. Big Boss led a revolution against the government, wishing to see his mentor and former lover's dreams come to fruition, but being misguided along the way by his own anarchic beliefs, leading to his ultimate demise at the hands of the Patriot's agent Solid Snake, who then lived and supposedly "died" by SS's hand again. He then returns at the last moment to Old Snake before he kills himself and tells him to not make the same mistakes he did and tells Old Snake to live a full life despite FoxDie. Then Big Boss dies by inhaling Old Snake's FoxDie.

Wolf is just a rebel.

3. Big Boss got his eyepatch from being shot in the face. Wolf probably thinks it looks cool.

I'm aware of what the virus was...thank you though

Except he has radar and stuff like that...

I think they have a lot in common...however I don't really see the match as even...

Click to expand...

And Snake has camo. AND radar.

I like how people don't understand Mother's story...

Click to expand...

Err, not that. I disagree with your opinion on Wolf Vs. Snake. YOU are telling me some ruff-rider in a biker suit is more physically adept than the super-soldier cloned from a man named "Big Boss?" I can't even insult you for such ignorance.

How can people think MK would win vs. Sonic...

Oh and saying Sonic has no style to his fighting and then saying he uses his speed is his main weapon is funny...but whatever...

Click to expand...

Sonic has no weapon save his greatest strength, his speed. Unless you count his sword in Sonic & The Black Knight, but that game sucked Donkey Kock.

Sonic has the chaos emeralds for a weapon as well as many other various power ups...

Right...Sonic just has various barriers and such...

Click to expand...

You don't read rules do you? That's like giving MK the ability to use the Halberd in this fight. In other words: chaos emeralds and power-ups will NOT be taken into account. nub

Sonic gets past armor all the time though...however, I do question how Sonic would use his tornado making skills to remove armor from a fighter who has the skill to make tornado moves as well

Click to expand...

Keep in mind the tornado is also containing a RAZOR SHARP OBJECT.

The Light Speed attack says hit to MK just smacking Sonic away...oh and how is Sonic slow in the air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Zjw8NW_UU

Click to expand...

Sonic needs RINGS to perform the Light Speed attack. And he's slow while he ascends, so MK can just swoop down and slice his stomach open.

payasofobia · Jun 25, 2009

And Wolf has a cloaking device, a radar and super-senses.

Anyway, I went ahead of myself this time. JOE! has not even returned yet.

smashbot226 · Jun 25, 2009

No arguing about that anymore. Now arguing over the APPARENT fight between MK and Sonic.

uhmuzing · Jun 25, 2009

This discussion has ultimately led me to change my vote to Wolf; mostly that pic of his knee and shoulder pads...

smashbot226 · Jun 25, 2009

dragonblooded said:
This discussion has ultimately led me to change my vote to Wolf; mostly that pic of his knee and shoulder pads...

Choosing a victor based on accessory clothing is ridiculous.

pizzapie7 · Jun 26, 2009

smashbot226 said:
1. WEAPONS- Err... Meta Knight has a sword and is a master of Star Warrior Style (made up lolz), while Sonic has his fists and spiky back, but no true style whatsoever. However, Sonic's TRUE weapon is speed, so he can run circles around Meta Knight, who may be able to keep up for a bit, but would fall behind.

ADVANTAGE: Sonic; with speed on his side, Sonic will run circles around Meta Knight's, while equally fast, sword attacks.

You admit that Sonic has no actual weapons, yet you say he has the advantage in weaponry? What what whaaaat?

uhmuzing · Jun 26, 2009

@Smashbot I didn't say I voted for him for his style. People have been saying that Snake could easily snap Wolf in half. Looking at the pic shows that that may not be true.

Sonic on the Rocks · Jun 26, 2009

If we're going by the 'each character gets equal stuff rule'...
Since Metal Knight has a golden sword and armor then Sonic has this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJMi0I-m5qo&feature=related

EDIT: In all seriousness, Sonic should at least get Caliburn to defend himself.
Also, is Meta Knight Brawl-sized or his real height of 20 cm? Not that being 1/5th of Sonic's size would be much of a big deal...

Eternal Yoshi · Jun 26, 2009

I'd like to point out that Snake could snap the neck of any character who has one exposed.

He can also disarm people's weapons through CQC. And break their arm.

JOE! · Jun 26, 2009

Iiiiiiiiimmmmmm BAaaAAAAAaaaaccckkk!!!

had a fun day at universal studios orlando....now back to work on this <.<

As for what pasywhosit said a while back after he dared change the post of the almighty JOE!

Being smart =/= i cans do maths betereerer

It means he has tactical smarts, such as abusing the fact wolf has his reflector on so he can pressure him to stay in it while he approaches to do CQC, etc, etc

Now that that is settled, new match shortly!

kr3wman · Jun 26, 2009

Don't the spacies like, only have the reflectors in Smash?

____

Lucario pretty much has this.

uhmuzing · Jun 26, 2009

This'll be a good match-up, Joe! I'm going to give this more thought later and vote Diddy for right now.

JOE! · Jun 26, 2009

kr3wman said:
Don't the spacies like, only have the reflectors in Smash?

____

Lucario pretty much has this.

In SFA they can get shields, which is why im just simplfying it to their Smash reflectors

as for the current match, realize diddy has his own unique fighting style, its different, but can it match-up to a fighting type?

Crazy_mofo213 · Jun 26, 2009

Lucario has a clear advantage over DidDy because he has his Aura. Diddy just has a peanut pop gun.

MXblaze · Jun 26, 2009

Lucario. Real life speaking, what can a banana and a peanut do to someone that can shoot big balls of aura and ****. No contest.

_clinton · Jun 26, 2009

smashbot226 said:
1. Except Big Boss actually DID something about it. In fact, he did it twice. And he STILL lived through a fire and being exploded. Wolf always has his sissy eject button in his Wolfen. Big Boss needs none.

Wolf lived through this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jcmm7r4Zog

I guess it isn't as bad though...I mean dealing with the subpar game's story and acting was far worse than a world going boom (please note...I don't really like Star Fox that much anymore and Metal Gear is sort of pending as for how much I like it)

Of course...thinking the Aparoids are a weak foe would be stupid...they are sort of based off of Star Treck's borg race

smashbot226 said:
2. Big Boss led a revolution against the government, wishing to see his mentor and former lover's dreams come to fruition, but being misguided along the way by his own anarchic beliefs, leading to his ultimate demise at the hands of the Patriot's agent Solid Snake, who then lived and supposedly "died" by SS's hand again. He then returns at the last moment to Old Snake before he kills himself and tells him to not make the same mistakes he did and tells Old Snake to live a full life despite FoxDie. Then Big Boss dies by inhaling Old Snake's FoxDie.

Wolf is just a rebel.

A rebel who's history with the thing he hates is unknown so far...

smashbot226 said:
3. Big Boss got his eyepatch from being shot in the face. Wolf probably thinks it looks cool.

Yes...please go ahead and think that...that price on his head and him being seen as Lord o' Donald by his troops is very real though...and the fact that his history with Star Fox dates back to Fox's dad is real as well...

smashbot226 said:
And Snake has camo. AND radar.

A clocking device isn't camo?

Really you seem to miss my point...in that Wolf has better gear than Snake and is even or very close to him as far as skill goes...

smashbot226 said:
Err, not that. I disagree with your opinion on Wolf Vs. Snake. YOU are telling me some ruff-rider in a biker suit is more physically adept than the super-soldier cloned from a man named "Big Boss?" I can't even insult you for such ignorance.

He is a mercenary who is trained to fly in almost suicidal missions...He clearly has a Military background in his job...The requirements needed to what his job is are set pretty high if you wanted to look at a real world example...

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Become-A-Fighter-Pilot&id=837462

smashbot226 said:
Sonic has no weapon save his greatest strength, his speed. Unless you count his sword in Sonic & The Black Knight, but that game sucked Donkey Kock.

Right...him being faster than the speed of sound is a low strength...oh and he has plenty of weapons actually if you look into just what his power ups happen to be in various games...unless you think you can use fire as a weapon normally...but whatever...why don't you just look at his various skills he has...

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Character)

smashbot226 said:
You don't read rules do you? That's like giving MK the ability to use the Halberd in this fight. In other words: chaos emeralds and power-ups will NOT be taken into account. nub

Yes...I certainly don't read the rules...btw have you not read my posts at all where I was *****ing about the rules?

Oh and let MK use his Halberd in the fight...do you know just how many giant war machines Sonic has taken down in his history?

Granted I guess you don't because his games have this habit of being very bad even before the 3-D ones...but still...

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDmkrCX9OI0
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jDboVozx40
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRaly9tk8v0 / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yw9resQolc&feature=related

Just 3 examples...let MK use his ship if he wants...

smashbot226 said:
Keep in mind the tornado is also containing a RAZOR SHARP OBJECT.

You know...it is also a razor sharp object that is "holy" if you look at what the anime is...but whatever...

I like how you think Sonic is going to lose to someone with a sword

smashbot226 said:
Sonic needs RINGS to perform the Light Speed attack. And he's slow while he ascends, so MK can just swoop down and slice his stomach open.

He doesn't need rings to perform the light speed attack...you are thinking about the light speed dash...

Plus the requirements for Sonic's light speed moves change each game as well as what they do...

Sonic adventure 1=charge time for both light speed dash and attack
Sonic adventure 2=charge time for only light speed dash
Sonic Heroes=He only uses it after his teams super attack for a limited amount of time

There...just 3 examples of his light moves being different

Oh and if Sonic used the Light Speed attack...he usually doesn't stop his attack unless there are no foes around his general area (but several of the stats for this move could be seen as just game mechs really)

However, I should point out that Sonic is faster than the speed of sound...however...who cares right now...

_clinton · Jun 26, 2009

Sorry for the double post...however this is for the new topic

Lucario vs. Diddy=Lucario

Diamond-It has the ability to sense the Auras of all things. It understands human speech.
Pearl-By catching the Aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements.
Platinum-A well-trained one can sense auras to identify and take in the feelings of creatures over half a mile away.

Looking at the younger form of a Lucario...you can see how strong it appears to be physical sense
Diamond-The aura that emanates from its body intensifies to alert others if it is afraid or sad.
Pearl-Its body is lithe yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons
in one night.
Platinum-It has the peculiar power of being able to see emotions such as joy and rage in the form of waves.

I should point out that Lucario is one of only two pokemon that are able to learn Aura Sphere naturally...the other is Togekiss...btw...Lucario and Togekiss are very ****ing rare and have very special traits about them as well besides being rare...

Here is a list of the others that use Aura Sphere...
Mewtwo
Mew
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina (both forms)

So put simply...Lucario uses a move that is used only by pokemon that can screw with time, space, death, or have extermely high levels of psychic energy...

Also...check the stats of Lucario...
525 is their total if put together...things like Mewtwo, Palkia, and Dialga have 680 for that total...

So if I was to use Lucario's BST as a measure of his power...he is about 3/4th as strong as Mewtwo...

Diddy Kong is ****ed looking into Lucario's power

payasofobia · Jun 26, 2009

What _clinton said is an overstatement.

While he is 3/4 as strong as Mewtwo, other pokemons are as well (exeggutor, cloyster, umbreon and a lot more) And pokemons aren't really as strong as people in the games usualy make them seem ( you cancatch 'god' for christ sake) and their attacks, while strong, are usualy no diffrent from your average RPG tier 1 attacks. And Lucario has a low defense and stamina. He is also smaller thn a 10 year old.

Diddy, while he may not seem strong, is a freaking chimpanzee. Chimpanzees can easily overpoweer and kill a human if they feel like it because of how freaking strong they are. Still, Diddy's weapons are ****.

It may seem a one-sided match at first, but look a little further and it becomes a little more even.

Lucario still wins though...

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