TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

We already explained all of this in previous posts before dude.

Its your fault for not being here to counter or discuss our points dude.

Or defend your points that were refutted by 5 different posters dude.

And everyone either agreed or gave up with what we said dude.

Don't be a sore loser dude.

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 9, 2009

adumbrodeus said:
LEARN BASIC PHYSICS!

For the love of God, GRAVITY WARPS SPACE!

Gravity effects everything that travels through space, including LIGHT. That's why light can't escape from black hole.

From there on, I will make final notes.

Nobody responded to telekenesis (in other words, how samus has a resistence), and it seems nobody has even the most basic grasp of weather, and therefore seems to think that by far the most complex system in this entire world that we have encountered is SIMPLE. Or the simple issue of how do you expect samus to aim with that amount of force able to keep the arm canon pinned in the opposite direction.

As for raw power, the equivilent of 100,000 kilowatts transfered into force is more then enough to crush samus, as I explained many times (check my back posts for where I came up with the number). But of course people don't seem willing to listen.

Popularity won that over arguments, therefore I've lost interest in being here period.

Enjoy your thread where RL peach wins over RL zelda.

[/unsubscribed]

Popularity? Do you know how hard it is to convice a thread full of Mewtwo lovers with only 3 posters?

We already explained enough, just look at previous posts.

tocador · Aug 9, 2009

I still think that

gravity would win m2 the fight

cookies arent that good, come to the light side :D, we have free shirts.

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
We already explained all of this in previous posts before dude.

Its your fault for not being here to counter or discuss our points dude.

Or defend your points that were refutted by 5 different posters dude.

And everyone either agreed or gave up with what we said dude.

Don't be a sore loser dude.

I did... people just reposted the same thing.

At the very least, nobody tried to refute that samus couldn't aim or move properly under the influence of mewtwo's telekenesis (which btw, was explicitly displayed).

Mewtwo forces samus' gun arm to her chest, what does she do?

Her only option is morph ball, and morph ball is all melee (in the sense that it can't really affect mewtwo if she can't get to mewtwo), so same basic problem.

So mewtwo can levitate her and move her to wherever she wants. Or hold her wherever she wants, forever.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

*yawns*
is it over...what happened...>.>

@.@ uh oh the spark is lighted again
*hides in corner*

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 9, 2009

Because Mewtwo cannot learn any attack that does that.

In the games psychic and confusion is nothing more than a psychic blast that flings people around as shown everywhere except the movie.

And the only 'control' move he learns is disable and the opponent recovers their memory 3 turns latter.

And please....keep the post short and without the massive gaps. It makes your post unpleasantly big for the thread.

JOE! · Aug 9, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smash

|

Interaction

|

Rock Smash

|

With Metal Burst active, Bisharp can destroy Armantle's Rock creations to create explosions like Charizard's Brawl Side B with every hit for massive damage potential.

✭✭CHOOSE YOUR RESERVE!✭✭

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
Because Mewtwo cannot learn any attack that does that.

In the games psychic and confusion is nothing more than a psychic blast that flings people around as shown everywhere except the movie.

And the only 'control' move he learns is disable and the opponent recovers their memory 3 turns latter.

And please....keep the post short and without the massive gaps. It makes your post unpleasantly big for the thread.

The anime is canon, it clearly shows that mewtwo's power's have far more versitility then that...

Again, that's it organized into moves is clearly proven as a game mechanic that doesn't actually effect the real world in any way other then the pokemon trainers use it for conveinience.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
Because Mewtwo cannot learn any attack that does that.

In the games psychic and confusion is nothing more than a psychic blast that flings people around as shown everywhere except the movie.

And the only 'control' move he learns is disable and the opponent recovers their memory 3 turns latter.

And please....keep the post short and without the massive gaps. It makes your post unpleasantly big for the thread.

tsk tsk...you can't tell that from the game because all the animation do is show psychic waves...>.> just now thought of that...

disregarding some of mewtwo's abilities shown in other sources is disregarding something perfectly legal as stated in the OP
so why are you arguing it's non existence, pokemon are not just limited to their "moves" just to let you know...

*yawns*
wow...the drive is still going...
*takes a seat on the bench*
I think everyone should take a step back and rethink everything that has been said...>.>

tocador · Aug 9, 2009

I smell REMATCH.

mewtwo is going to win round 2, i feel it.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 9, 2009

JOE! said:
it doesnt matter on attacks he can learn MRG....but on what he can do with his powers

also, i dont think samus can actually aim at herself...

Uh, yeah she can. Prop your fist up against the side of your face, Joe. Same principal. Mewtwo condenses the power of his mind around the gun-hand and places it right up against the side of her helmet. Note that this isn't hijacking her nervous system or anything like that; this is literally using the power of your mind to physically GRAB something. Kinda like an extra hand.

She doesn't necessarily have to fire upon herself but what is she going to do? Flail with the remaining three limbs?

Just expand on that concept for a moment.

(PSIONICS ARE FREAKIN' BROKEN.)

Smooth Criminal

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

No you can't. The cannon is twice as long as Samus's upper arm.

And even if he had his powers, the fight would go as JOE! said, it depends on who shoots first....but Samus still has the advantage here.

If samus shoots first she wins.

If both shoot at the same time the beam will kill mewtwo before he seriously damages the power suit.

And if Mewtwo shoots first, Mewtwo wins.

JOE! · Aug 9, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Guillotine
Whirlpool
Hone Claws

|

Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.
Full-charge Hydro Pumps will remain in the air/where they explode for 5 seconds when they hit Reflect or are Grabbed/Zair'd/Side B'd by Alakazam, and will continue to slightly push foes away from the center of the burst, but deal no damage.
When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.

|Alakazam and Feraligatr box foes in nicely here with aerial water traps, lettign them fall prey to Bisharp's impressive ground game. Even better with a Whirlpool out, foes will be hard pressed to play perfectly or else get shredded by bleed damage or worse yet, get the Guillotine! A slightly easier team to master, yet hard to jump right into, they sport some of the best KO combos of any team.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
No you can't. The cannon is twice as long as your upper arm.

Pivot at the elbow...

@the quick draw theory *point to payasofobia's edit*
That just brings the match up to 500-500 as that is all dependent on chances, probability and a something called
"who flinched"

See what a breather has done for this discussion? Heads are clear now aren't they?

JOE! · Aug 9, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Assist
(Triple Finish)
Guillotine

|

Alakazam can catch Seed Bombs with Jab/Grab/Confusion, making them behave like his Spoon Traps, and allowing Breloom to toss another.
If an opponent is under the effects of Spore's poison, Bisharp's bleed damage will extend by 1/2 a second per hit instead of 1/4 second when applicable. If the opponent is paralyzed or slept by Spore, Bisharp's attacks will do 25-50% more KB respectively.
Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.

|High offense is the name of the game, with all three combo-powerhouses sharing the stage! Alakazam is a cornerstone here, adding both spoons and Seed Bombs as both traps to work foes around, as well as extra projectiles for Bisharp to space foes with. Good for players of any level, just be wary of how fast you may end up going down due to the teams either low weight, weakness to being comboed, and/or mediocre recovery options.
|

TRIPLE FINISH

|

Alakazam teleports the trio to the foe, and proceeds to grab and Upthrow the foe, causing them to levitate slowly upwards to the height of the top Battlefield platform. While this happens, Breloom and Bisharp both jump up and the player can button mash for the both of them to beat the crap out of the foe for about a second with A (Bisharp, on the left side) or B (Breloom, on the right). Once the second is up, Alakazam will teleport the foe and the last button pressed (A/B) determines who he takes with him and in what direction (Bisharp goes right, Breloom goes left) about a platform off the stage in said direction, or just a platform from the screen if there are no edges. When this occurs, you can buffer in the attack of your choice from either Breloom or Bisharp as if they were on the ground, making for a quick death by an off-stage Fsmash! Alakazam then teleports everyone (except the foe) back on-stage.

|

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

JOE! said:
add like an extra 7 inches to your hand, then have that go perfectly on your face, which will be round, while having massive shoulder...thingies

It fits, but the face is easier.

That wasn't really the point though, any critical part of the body will do.

The point is, samus can't hurt mewtwo with them, because in order to do so, she'll need to fire through and destroy a crucial part of her body, and would die.

JOE! said:
yeah, this match is gonna get some looking at...

some thinsg were definatley overlooked

(seriously, nobody mentioned reaction time, and can her own beams hurt her suit?)

Stopping is enough.

Human reaction time is about 8/60s of a second at absolute best.

If samus gets a boost, a tenth of second should be tops, but I don't really see any particular mention of reaction time beyond human capacity.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
No you can't. The cannon is twice as long as Samus's upper arm.

And even if he had his powers, the fight would go as JOE! said, it depends on who shoots first....but Samus still has the advantage here.

If samus shoots first she wins.

If both shoot at the same time the beam will kill mewtwo before he seriously damages the power suit.

And if Mewtwo shoots first, Mewtwo wins.

JOE! said:
add like an extra 7 inches to your hand, then have that go perfectly on your face, which will be round, while having massive shoulder...thingies

Wait for it...

Marthage said:
Pivot at the elbow...

Ding ding ding!

And even if THAT fails, Mewtwo could just always aim the barrel right underneath of where her chin would be rather than at the side of her face.

Smooth Criminal

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

The fully upgraded beam is actually the only thing that could possibly pierce the Varia suit alone as shown in Metroid fusion

I am not sure if it could pierce through the fully upgraded suit though. If it just barely pierces the Varia suit, guess it won't do anything against the fully upgraded suit.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

But what about the helmet?
Is her helmet as reinforced as her suit is?

JOE! · Aug 9, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Sharpen_APP
Guillotine
Nasty Plot

|

If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.
Alakazam can choose to Teleport into Trick Rooms instead of where he entered the match by pressing Up for the center Trick Room, and Left/Right for other TR's in relation to the center one/center stage.

|Spacing is the name of the game, with Trick Rooms, Teleportation, and Metal flying about like it's going out of style. Well suited for a bait and punish type of playstyle, with some more "actiony" options available with Nasty Plot and Sharpen_App. the three should have no trouble moving about the stage and confounding foes with their various movement tools on both themselves and their projectiles.

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

Her suit is everything. Even the helmet.

The only thing that could maybe and just maybe pierce the suit is the imperialist, and its function is the same as the plasma beam (pierces through armor) and Samus only had the Varia suit at the time.

I don't think anything can pierce through her armor actually, and even if it did it would have to deplete her boss-like amounts of energy.

tocador · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
The fully upgraded beam is actually the only thing that could possibly pierce the Varia suit alone as shown in Metroid fusion

I am not sure if it could pierce through the fully upgraded suit though. If it just barely pierces the Varia suit, guess it won't do anything against the fully upgraded suit.

Guessing isnt the reality.

Proof or it pierces.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 9, 2009

Consider this:

Even if something doesn't penetrate your armor...what about the sheer force behind it?

Just some food for thought.

Edit: I honestly don't think Samus could, say, eat a missile to the chest and not go flying off of her **** feet and at the very least be somewhat disoriented.

Smooth Criminal

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

@tocador
your statement works both ways

Pro-Mewtwo's need to prove that it does pierce
and Pro-Samus's need to prove that it doesn't

Memorable_Random_Guy · Aug 9, 2009

They would also have to get through Samus's extremely tough physiology and I am pretty sure she can take that if we look at the multiple instances she has fallen at extremely great heights or has gotten crushed by rocks thrown at super high speeds and did not receie any damage herself.

And lets not forget the ultra high gravity exerted by nightmare which would have crushed her bones even if she had her power suit realisticaly, but she endured it and with a weakened suit.

The sudden stop and sheer force exerted on her body in those moments did not even damage her so no.

tocador · Aug 9, 2009

Marthage said:
@tocador
your statement works both ways

Pro-Mewtwo's need to prove that it does pierce
and Pro-Samus's need to prove that it doesn't

If it pierces through varia, it shall pierce trough the other, unless you can prove it is more RESISTANT to THAT type of shot, witch pro-samus need to prove.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 9, 2009

"Blinking" when struck in the context of a video game =/= as unmoving as a mountain.

Physiology isn't the issue. I'm not saying she isn't tough enough to take it, I'm talking about being THROWN OFF OF YOUR FEET.

In a fight like this, that can be bad.

Smooth Criminal

JOE! · Aug 9, 2009

Pokemon

|

Super Smashes

|

Interactions

|

Strategy

|

Rock Smash
Stealth Rock
Guillotine

|

With Metal Burst active, Bisharp can destroy Armantle's Rock creations to create explosions like Charizard's Brawl Side B with every hit for massive damage potential.
Alakazam can grab Fossilized foes with Confusion, despite their anti-grab armor, and throw them while pausing their "grab" timer until released from Confusion.
Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.

|Alakazam and Armantle have amazing synergy as always, and set up for Bisharp's potent finishers and traps with their various ways to manipulate the field and foe alike. A good team for any skill level, they come with a great mixed bag of aerial and ground traps, punishes, damage wracking and KO options.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

Memorable_Random_Guy said:
They would also have to get through Samus's extremely tough physiology and I am pretty sure she can take that if we look at the multiple instances she has fallen at extremely great heights or has gotten crushed by rocks thrown at super high speeds and did not receie any damage herself.

And lets not forget the ultra high gravity exerted by nightmare which would have crushed her bones even if she had her power suit realisticaly, but she endured it and with a weakened suit.

The sudden stop and sheer force exerted on her body in those moments did not even damage her so no.

^That's just it..."realistically"

We've totally thrown physics out the window...
If Samus fires a powerful shot- and Mewtwo has her cannon redirected...
Then pure physics says the speed at which the projectile is fired, times it masses, is the force that is taken...

Can Samus REALLY stay standing after a self shot?

The basic hole in a lot of the previous arguments was the absence of real world physics...according to JOE! That stayed the same >.>

@JOE!-Remember that in this instance we only stated that Mewtwo grasped her arm cannon.

tocador · Aug 9, 2009

WOOT, AND THE DISCUSSION SHALL BEGING(again).

B4 we start, some merchandising:

"Join mewtwo side, we have cool shirts and

raisins

cookies"

Plus, we get to use a white-ish+purple-ish clothing witch is awsome :D.

And we will win(joke only ok people?), so join us :D!

If physics had ANY thing to do with this fight mewtwo would have won/tied it at least.

Gravitational field > any projectile, but people say gravity isnt 1337, so we cant use it.

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

You guys are all sort of missing the point here.

Mewtwo can prevent samus from doing anything indefinately and take her anywhere she wants.

That includes preventing her from eating, replenishing air reserves, ect. Or drop her into a black hole.

If we can't find something suitable to kill samus and she has unlimited resources in the suit, it's a draw (because mewtwo can still find food and take care of other biological necessities), assuming that we hold that mewtwo cannot damage samus directly or deal kill damage through the suit.

If not, mewtwo wins, 100-0.

The other points I made are still completely valid, but I'm emphasizing mewtwo's strategy of just holding samus in a situation where she can't do anything because it easily illustrates the point that nobody was thinking about the obvious implications of psionics which were vitally important to this match-up.

Smooth Criminal · Aug 9, 2009

JOE! said:
but mewtwo is holding her still....

Lmao.

Well, what I was EVENTUALLY going to bring up was this: If in the event that her own arsenal could not penetrate her suit, what about the actual FORCE of the shot? Say if she did fire on herself, even to psyche Mewtwo out or some ****. Even the weakest shot from Samus's arm cannon has momentum behind it. I couldn't really tell you how much, but I would safely assume it has the velocity of a high-caliber bullet. Something like that isn't going to gently "ting" off of you.

XD

I like making things complicated adumbrodeus, but I side with you!

Smooth Criminal

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

Smooth Criminal said:
"Blinking" when struck in the context of a video game =/= as unmoving as a mountain.

Physiology isn't the issue. I'm not saying she isn't tough enough to take it, I'm talking about being THROWN OFF OF YOUR FEET.

In a fight like this, that can be bad.

Smooth Criminal

What then? Is he going to toss her into space and get done with it? Or throw her against a wall? or into the air?

No matter what he sends her, it is not going to do anything.

Of course, I know I missunderstood what you said so clariffy, please.

And JOE! the fight would be resolved by who shoots first. And reaction times would be meaningless considering one is a genious and the other the ultimate space warrior. Both are pretty fast and both have shown extreme precision when shooting/psyching?

Who shoots first is the answer.

Mewtwo cannot stop the beam no matter what it does, and samus wouldn't be able to do anything if mewtwo gets a hold on her.

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
WhAnd JOE! the fight would be resolved by who shoots first. And reaction times would be meaningless considering one is a genious and the other the ultimate space warrior. Both are pretty fast and both have shown extreme precision when shooting/psyching?

Who shoots first is the answer.

Mewtwo has no need to aim and will know the exact location of samus due to telepathy at all times (if only due to telepathic blind spot).

That was sort of the the main reason why mewtwo got first crack, and I mentioned it in the beginning.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
What then? Is he going to toss her into space and get done with it? Or throw her against a wall? or into the air?

No matter what he sends her, it is not going to do anything.

Of course, I know I missunderstood what you said so clariffy, please.

And JOE! the fight would be resolved by who shoots first. And reaction times would be meaningless considering one is a genious and the other the ultimate space warrior. Both are pretty fast and both have shown extreme precision when shooting/psyching?

Who shoots first is the answer.

Mewtwo cannot stop the beam no matter what it does, and samus wouldn't be able to do anything if mewtwo gets a hold on her.

^then we're nigh looking at a draw...maybe.......>.>

there's just the big IF in my mind, but I can't think of it....

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

And the beam auto homes in to the target no matter where it is. And it has a lot of other nifty abilities that lets it ignore everything in its path.

Edit: Well Marthage, there is the fact that even if he gets a hold of her, what will he do with an indestructible being? The only thing that he could do is using her as Mewtwo's personal pokewoman and conquering the universe with her.

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
And the beam auto homes in to the target no matter where it is. And it has a lot of other nifty abilities that lets it ignore everything in its path.

Which beam are you talking about? All of samus' beams have different properties.

payasofobia said:
Edit: Well Marthage, there is the fact that even if he gets a hold of her, what will he do with an indestructible being?

As I said, drop her into a black hole, or just keep her in place until she starve to death, runs out of oxygen, the suit runs out of energy, whatever.

Also, this indestructible stuff...

It's from fusion, but all we see is samus' suit being paired against Samus' weapons. That doesn't mean REAL indestructability, that just means one of two things:

1. He suit is too powerful for her non-upgraded weapons that were present IN THAT GAME.

2. X increased it's durability, rendering it immune.

3. The weakened state of samus suit rendered it unable to penetrate the varia suit.

4. 1 through 3.

The answer is probably 4, this doesn't say a thing about weapons of superior force or different properties, including other types of beam weapons not present in the game.

How precisely does samus take damage in the game if she and the suit are indestructable?

Or more importantly, HOW IS IT SURGICALLY REMOVED? This was storyline, so it can't be passed off as game mechanics.

The suit is not indestructable.

Sieguest · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
And the beam auto homes in to the target no matter where it is. And it has a lot of other nifty abilities that lets it ignore everything in its path.

If Samus has her Arm Cannon to her face...then the first thing the shot comes into contact with out of the barrel is herself...

@paysofobia's edit- *points to adumbrodeus's post*
that...I'll quote when/ if I post again...>.>

payasofobia · Aug 9, 2009

But we are assuming then that samus is on Mewtwo's control from the begining of the match, when the usual setting for these matches is of the two characters just seeing each other, knowing they are enemies and then begin the fight.

And adum, the beam has stack capabilities. Her whole suit has stack capabilities.

The only exceptions are 2 games of a 9 game series.

And the basis of the match being won by samus is the fact that samus wins 2 of the 3 possible scenarios.

Also, I like this type of discussion. Simple, without the extremely long posts that you must respond to...etc.

So please, keep it simple guys. Responding to those extremely long posts of yours is stressful.

adumbrodeus · Aug 9, 2009

payasofobia said:
But we are assuming then that samus is on Mewtwo's control from the begining of the match, when the usual setting for these matches is of the two characters just seeing each other, knowing they are enemies and then begin the fight.

The setting has been that the characters know they are enemies, and upon discovery of each other they begin the fight (the only exception being ivysaur vs. yoshi, because their intelligence wouldn't allow that reaction).

The combatants know that the other is out there, and they need to find each other.

And adum, the beam has stack capabilities. Her whole suit has stack capabilities.

The only exceptions are 2 games of a 9 game series.

CERTAIN WEAPONS had stack capabilities.

The problem with suggesting that ALL weapons have stack capabilities is that many of the weapons work on totally opposite principals, and the games where they don't have stack capabilities have the weapons included being unique from the weapons that did in a variety of ways.

Weapons can only stack if proven to be stackable.

Edit: also, see edit.

btw, this will get complex as more points are contended. We were disagreeing on many points in each post, which was why the walls of text came up.

TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Smash Champion

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Da Cheef

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Legend

Da Cheef

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Da Cheef

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Da Cheef

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Da Cheef

Smash Champion

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Legend

Information

Network