The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

shinyspoon42 · Sep 27, 2009

OMNIKIDXXX said:
i know side-b is predictable,, u just hav to try ur best to trhow off ur oppentn but the main reaosn to use it is for pressure to eventually get the oppenent to come to zelda so she can play defensiv
and ive played pits that loop ther arrows and i figured this would b a reply but it always takes the pits too much time to loop the arrows and while he is controlling them to loop u can hit him

why would they get thrown off? they just see you trying to use Din's and laugh. It creates no pressure, because it is so easy to react to. They won't approach a zelda.
...Pit starts looping an arrow, then you come in trying to punish him for it and Pit just shanks you because he stops trying to control the arrow and just punishes you attempting to punish him.

EDIT: oh, and I think Bowser has potential to be bottom or middle of C if we got better representation.

OMNIKIDXXX · Sep 27, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
if you watch zelda's hand you can see her try to detonate it, and dodge on reaction. And why would they dodge early? they don't have to do anything until you are about to detonate it.

Pits arrows are fast, and can be used repeatedly. If you keep having to shield, they have to slow down, and their shield detoriates to the point where you can snipe their head or feet. They can be looped, aimed, and fired straight. Pits arrows are one of the single best projectiles in the game.

yes he can spam arrrows faster than zelda can spam fireballz,, i stated that,,
sniping heads or feet can b remedied by dodging instead of using ur shield
nonetheless his projectile is very good in comparison to other characters
i just dont find it to b very versatile

OMNIKIDXXX · Sep 27, 2009

Kewkky said:
Omni, Bowser is mid-low tier for a reason. Stop expecting high tier results from his attacks and speed, he just doesn't have them.

im confused ?lol sarcasim right? just incase its not i think bowser will stay the same or go down on the next list

OMNIKIDXXX · Sep 27, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
FLAME MODE ON

You're an idiot.

FLAME MODE OFF

Do more research on Bowser.

good comebak insults show maturity

PhantomX · Sep 27, 2009

OMNIKIDXXX said:
good comebak insults show maturity

So does triple posting.

Nanaki · Sep 28, 2009

Please stop double posting. You can edit your previous post if you want to add something to it.

Din's is awful. There's no way around it, it's too slow, predictable, and easy to punish to be of much use.

Pit's arrows are good, maaaaaaybe one of the top projectiles in the game. I'd give the nod to Diddy's naners though, followed by Falco's lazors, Snake's Nades, and Peach's turnips.

Edit: Apparently it was a triple post, not just double. Too epic.

Kewkky · Sep 28, 2009

OMNIKIDXXX said:
good comebak insults show maturity

Ok, Omni, this isn't sarcasm... Since you're new and all, it's only fair to tell you that posting several times repeatedly (like you did 3 times) is a violation of one of SWF's posting rules. If you really want to answer to many people at the same time, edit your last post and address them in a single post, not multiple.

You'll be infracted by the moderators if you don't, and eventually banned if it keeps up... Just a friendly warning is all. :embarrass

And the best explanation so far as to Zelda vs Bowser tier placement, is that Zelda and Sheik were made to compliment each other, not to be played alone.

OMNIKIDXXX · Sep 28, 2009

PhantomX said:
So does triple posting.

i dont see the problem with it? im just trying to state my reasoning for saying these things and reply to eveyrone
correctioon:oh i c from commetn above^^^^ ty for clerifying that triple posting is bad i didnt knwo u coudl get banned for it
yes i am new to this site but ive played the smash series since the first 1 came out so plz dont treat me like im noob
and im not gunna deny that mayb shinyspoon is right i may i hav not played a real good bowser yet but until i do im still convinced he will lower on the next list,,as of right now
anyway im done posting for today
and im srry to cause such an uproar i just feel ther is way too much bias and hate on zelda
so i wanted to stand up for her,, i know how to play her efficiently so i did my best to giv counter arguements,,i dont comment and reply to piss people off keep that in mind,,
anyway hard feelings aside if u wana talk more
myspace.com/omniemokid
http://allisbrawl.com/profile/OMNIKID.ai
omniemokid@yahoo.com
add me or e-mail me

for the comment below
"Peach is 19th on the current Brawl tier list. This is because she has high priority on her attacks, the ability to float, decent combo ability, and a very versatile projectile;"
this is a quote form smashwiki
it can b considered both an item or projectile

shinyspoon42 · Sep 28, 2009

OMNIKIDXXX said:
yes he can spam arrrows faster than zelda can spam fireballz,, i stated that,,
sniping heads or feet can b remedied by dodging instead of using ur shield
nonetheless his projectile is very good in comparison to other characters
i just dont find it to b very versatile

*loops an arrow then shoots you with a straight one* situation solved.
Peach, Diddy, Snake, the Links, and ROB have items, not projectiles. You pull out an item, and throw it. Falco's lasers, or Pits arrows are projectiles, and the two best ones at that.
They are versatile depending on the context you view them in.

FB Dj_Iskascribble · Sep 28, 2009

if your down in percent zelda is forced to approach since they can dodge dins all day. Zelda gets owned by alot of common characters, her normals are slow in comparasion to other characters, d-tilts range isnt that great. most of her attacks can be DId out of, shes vunerable to gimps, her reflector has alot of ending lag, if you sourspot your f-air, b-air or d-air the knockback you get is so bad you could be punished for connecting with it. Up-air has alot of startup lag. d-smash is an okay move.
IMO shes one of the worst characters in this game

Kitamerby · Sep 28, 2009

dj_Iskascribble said:
if your down in percent zelda is forced to approach since they can dodge dins all day. Zelda gets owned by alot of common characters, her normals are slow in comparasion to other characters, d-tilts range isnt that great. most of her attacks can be DId out of, shes vunerable to gimps, her reflector has alot of ending lag, if you sourspot your f-air, b-air or d-air the knockback you get is so bad you could be punished for connecting with it. Up-air has alot of startup lag. d-smash is an okay move.
IMO shes one of the worst characters in this game

The overall speed of her moveset actually isn't the reason she's bad. It's because she has no approach options whatsoever, combined with her slow movement speed, bad airdodge, aerials which are not very suited to approaching or any sort of air-to-air combat whatsoever, a slow grab, and a bad projectile for forcing approaches.

In reality, her ground game and her defense game is pretty dang good. She just has no reason to use it ever because she has to approach. Her Dsmash is fantastic, Fsmash is amazing as a spacing tool, her f and utilts kill very well, her Dtilt sets up for virtually anything she likes, including killers, Nayru's is actually quite useful and versatile, and her Usmash is just wonderful. She has her flaws, but it's definitely not in the ground game department.

PhantomX · Sep 28, 2009

Even her defense game is pretty mediocre at best because of how much she has to commit to each move.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 28, 2009

Enough Zelda, more Bowser.

Vex Kasrani · Sep 28, 2009

Red Ryu said:
Enough Zelda, more Bowser.

No more Bowser, nobody in this thread knows about the character and should stop claiming things about him. Unless your a Bowser player you really shouldn't be claiming things unless you want to be flamed by me because you'll probably state something wrong, and if your wrong I won't even explain why, because that person shouldn't have posted something about the character in the first place.

I'm such a mean person...or is it that this thread has made me this way.

<33333333333 everybody still.

Kitamerby · Sep 28, 2009

PhantomX said:
Even her defense game is pretty mediocre at best because of how much she has to commit to each move.

At least her moves look pretty!

(compared to a flying fat man that spins around like a top factory in a cyclone)

da K.I.D. · Sep 28, 2009

street fighter reference?

by vexs logic he shouldnt be allowed to say anything about where bowser should be since he doesnt play any of the characters that he states bowser is better than.

also the last kid that admitted he played bowser in this thread, said that he sucked.

just sayin...

Vex Kasrani · Sep 28, 2009

da K.I.D. said:
street fighter reference?

by vexs logic he shouldnt be allowed to say anything about where bowser should be since he doesnt play any of the characters that he states bowser is better than.

also the last kid that admitted he played bowser in this thread, said that he sucked.

I play many characters at a decent level, and I only talk about those characters when mentioned

The dude doesn't play bowser at all judging by his posts, I meant Bowser's on the Bowser boards. Forgive me if i seem rude, its just annoying when people make claims about my character that are false that I have proven to be false in a tournament setting.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 28, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
No more Bowser, nobody in this thread knows about the character and should stop claiming things about him. Unless your a Bowser player you really shouldn't be claiming things unless you want to be flamed by me because you'll probably state something wrong, and if your wrong I won't even explain why, because that person shouldn't have posted something about the character in the first place.

Fine then, more Yoshi talk.

Vex Kasrani said:
I'm such a mean person...or is it that this thread has made me this way.

<33333333333 everybody still.

shinyspoon42 · Sep 28, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
No more Bowser, nobody in this thread knows about the character and should stop claiming things about him.

Sad face. D:

Vex Kasrani · Sep 28, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
Sad face. D:

I also mentioned Bowser players in the post.

Either way I'm unsubscribing to this thread, it makes me mad lol.

adumbrodeus · Sep 28, 2009

OMNIKIDXXX said:
i know side-b is predictable,, u just hav to try ur best to trhow off ur oppentn but the main reaosn to use it is for pressure to eventually get the oppenent to come to zelda so she can play defensiv

You're missing the point, it's predictable to the point where your opponent will NEVER EVER GET HIT BY IT.

In other words, there's no need for them to approach.

To add insult to injury, if they're close enough (pretty much always not close enough for you to take advantage), your opponent will use invincibility frames or outprioritization to not get hit by Din's, then hit you during the lag.

and ive played pits that loop ther arrows and i figured this would b a reply but it always takes the pits too much time to loop the arrows and while he is controlling them to loop u can hit him

Remember, pit can do other stuff while controlling the arrows, you try to approach then, and he's gonna keep controlling the arrows if he can... but his first priority will be to punish you for attempting to approach. Zelda has no real options against a shield opponent because her grab is slower then reaction time.

and about my bad grammer,,i get that from texting and aim,,i dotn take the time for periods adn capitalization,,,im srry if its diffciult to read sumtimes

It's ok, just remember this is a forum, take some time and care for your posts, if they're difficult to read, it hurts your image.

Vex Kasrani said:
No more Bowser, nobody in this thread knows about the character and should stop claiming things about him. Unless your a Bowser player you really shouldn't be claiming things unless you want to be flamed by me because you'll probably state something wrong, and if your wrong I won't even explain why, because that person shouldn't have posted something about the character in the first place.

I'm such a mean person...or is it that this thread has made me this way.

<33333333333 everybody still.

I lurk bowser boards, is that enough?

bigman40 · Sep 28, 2009

Red Ryu said:
Fine then, more Yoshi talk.

Yoshi talk? Sure. I'll give you all you need to know:

Bwett and burntsocks quit yoshi.

Ace is the main rep for yoshi.

Yoshi sucks and is low tier.

That's all you need to know.

shinyspoon42 · Sep 28, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
I also mentioned Bowser players in the post.

Either way I'm unsubscribing to this thread, it makes me mad lol.

Oh well, the first page is really all you need.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 28, 2009

bigman40 said:
Yoshi talk? Sure. I'll give you all you need to know:

Awesome.

bigman40 said:
Bwett and burntsocks quit yoshi.

=O

Let me guess, they main Metaknight now?

bigman40 said:
Ace is the main rep for yoshi.

Cool.

bigman40 said:
Yoshi sucks and is low tier.

His MU's still look better than some of the people above him.

bigman40 said:
That's all you need to know.

That all?

shinyspoon42 · Sep 28, 2009

I've always thought yoshi had more potential to rise- does he really suck?

da K.I.D. · Sep 28, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
I play many characters at a decent level, and I only talk about those characters when mentioned

The dude doesn't play bowser at all judging by his posts, I meant Bowser's on the Bowser boards. Forgive me if i seem rude, its just annoying when people make claims about my character that are false that I have proven to be false in a tournament setting.

lol at this comment being directed at a sonic main

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 28, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
I've always thought yoshi had more potential to rise- does he really suck?

He's better than everyone in E tier.

Tier wise bottom of D.

shinyspoon42 · Sep 28, 2009

I was about to make a tier list of my own, and started to do so, but I stopped. I stopped because I realized I wasn't knowledge enough to think I could summarize the entire rankings of the cast, while knowing little of their metagame, matchups, and etc. To think I was that capable would be both arrogant and wholly wrong, and would lead to an embarrassing situation when people who did know their characters saw how flawed my list was.

And I would just like people who are discussing things here to realize; you do not know everything, and to assume you do is beyond foolish. So when a person more versed and more educated makes a statement, try to understand the reasoning behind it before declaring opposition to it. Quite often, you will be wrong and they will prove so.

TL;DR- shut up and listen to the smart guys, and stop thinking you are a smart guy.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 28, 2009

I argued a while back with Onishiba about why Link is better than Falcon and provided evidence.

He's still smarter than me about this game.

If you know what your talking about, you have every right to argue with someone who you think is giving off incorrect information.

If people make a list and people prove you wrong, just fix accordingly and move on.

da K.I.D. · Sep 28, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
TL;DR- shut up and listen to the smart guys, and stop thinking you are a smart guy.

this applys to the smart guys as well

Col. Stauffenberg · Sep 28, 2009

Red Ryu said:
=O

Let me guess, they main Metaknight now?

Burntsocks mentioned a desire to main Captain Falcon now.

Try not to think about it, it hurts.

Nefarious B · Sep 28, 2009

Col. Stauffenberg said:
Burntsocks mentioned a desire to main Captain Falcon now.

Try not to think about it, it hurts.

He was actually asking me who he should main, he's looking at the high/top tiers right now so I was trying to steer him in the right direction (AKA nohomo)

Nanaki · Sep 28, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
*loops an arrow then shoots you with a straight one* situation solved.
Peach, Diddy, Snake, the Links, and ROB have items, not projectiles. You pull out an item, and throw it. Falco's lasers, or Pits arrows are projectiles, and the two best ones at that.
They are versatile depending on the context you view them in.

...

Pulling out an item and throwing it makes that item NOT a projectile?

A projectile is any object propelled through space by the exertion of a force which ceases after launch.

Just because you have to pull it out and THEN chuck it doesn't mean it's not a projectile.

adumbrodeus · Sep 28, 2009

shinyspoon42 said:
*loops an arrow then shoots you with a straight one* situation solved.
Peach, Diddy, Snake, the Links, and ROB have items, not projectiles. You pull out an item, and throw it. Falco's lasers, or Pits arrows are projectiles, and the two best ones at that.
They are versatile depending on the context you view them in.

Didn't really notice this...

Being an item doesn't make something not a projectile, in fact the opposite is really true, being an item means you are always a projectile.

Projectiles are things with hitboxes independent of the character, and items always have hitboxes independent of the character when thrown.

Therefore, they items are universally a projectile when thrown.

bigman40 · Sep 28, 2009

Red Ryu said:
=O

Let me guess, they main Metaknight now?

That all?

That's all that I felt like saying (wasn't in a cheerful mood that time). Too many ignorant people jump into the conversation to express their "experience" with this or that character.

Bwett mains Diddy now, and Burnt is looking for another main.

shinyspoon42 said:
I've always thought yoshi had more potential to rise- does he really suck?

He's bad, but he's not "lol" bad compared to others. Practically every MU he has against the cast is an uphill battle. He has potentially some ugly MUs (35:65) that would make him better (falco/marth/samus and possible TL/snake). Everyone else is from even to 40:60 (this is mainly from D tier and up).

shinyspoon42 said:
TL;DR- shut up and listen to the guys who know what they're talking about, and stop thinking you are a know-it-all.

fixed and QFT.

Tien2500 · Sep 28, 2009

Yoshi's strengths (eggs, decent weight, SA frames, CG on some characters, pivot grab) are just outweighed by his weaknesses (eggs can be easily outcamped, nearly non-existant OOS game, below average KO ability).

I think Yoshi is below the characters in D tier by a little bit. E tier seems right although the order of Etier is a little off. I'd put Yoshi above Lucas and maybe Mario.

Pierce7d · Sep 28, 2009

Yoshi is not better than Mario

adumbrodeus · Sep 28, 2009

Pierce7d said:
Yoshi is not better than Mario

Quoted for truth.

Mario is one of the most underrated characters in the metagame today, he's a mid tier character.

AfroTwist ShadowPie · Sep 28, 2009

Tien2500 said:
I'd put Yoshi above Lucas and maybe Mario.

Lucas is really underrepresented...

bigman40 · Sep 28, 2009

If Mario is that much better, then where's the rep for him?

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