AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
You can grab him when he nados, it's hard as **** like almost impossible durng a match.
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Shield Grab Tornado
- Thread starter mikeHAZE
- Start date
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Me too!
*high five for awesome jobs*
This is basically a parlor trick if we can't find something that we can do when they are in the air.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Okay, I did some testing...
If the MK is tapping B fast (about 3-4 times per second), then it's impossible to shield grab because you only have a 5 frame OoS advantage and most grabs take 6 frames. If he's going slower than that, then it is possible because the advantage becomes 6-7 frames. Also, MK's tornado must be staled at least once because for some reason a fresh tornado has a 5 frame shield stun while a staled tornado has a 1 frame shield stun. You can also grab tornado while it's ending (during it's last two hits?) with a 10-13 frame advantage.
If the MK is tapping B fast (about 3-4 times per second), then it's impossible to shield grab because you only have a 5 frame OoS advantage and most grabs take 6 frames. If he's going slower than that, then it is possible because the advantage becomes 6-7 frames. Also, MK's tornado must be staled at least once because for some reason a fresh tornado has a 5 frame shield stun while a staled tornado has a 1 frame shield stun. You can also grab tornado while it's ending (during it's last two hits?) with a 10-13 frame advantage.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
you're amazing.
_OraNoS_
Smash Ace
thanks for the helpful info, K Prime!
If you had the full(?) 13 frame advantage, would Dedede be able to up-tilt him OoS?
If you had the full(?) 13 frame advantage, would Dedede be able to up-tilt him OoS?
sounds like most characters could attempt out of shield aerials as well.
CO18
Smash Hero
Naw shield drop is 7 frames and ddds up tilt is like 11 wouldnt work.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
Grabbing MK out of nado is one of the ways us oli's deal with the matchup. Shieldgrabbing can work too. This is old news.
doing this with ice climbers is actually pretty easy, perhaps because of the fact that there is two of them.
playing around with snake, i got it occasionally, but its seriously difficult. perhaps dair Oos would be better?
playing around with snake, i got it occasionally, but its seriously difficult. perhaps dair Oos would be better?
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
So if Snake can grab, doesn't that mean that some other characters can usmash out of shield if they are frame perfect?
I looked around, and here are some potentially practical solutions OoS that come out in 8 frames or less-
Falco - Usmash (hitbox said to be out on frame 8)
Fox - Usmash (frame 8)
MK - Up B (invincible on frames 5-8, hit on 8), jump neutral air (in air on 5, nair out in 3, jump nair should hit on 7), jump uair (frame 6), usmash (frame 8)
Luigi - Usmash (frame 8), up B? (frame 6)
Olimar - Usmash (frame 8)
Mario - Up B (frame 3)
Sheik - Usmash (top hit at frame 4)
Zelda - Usmash (frame 6)
Pikachu - Jump nair, uair (air frame 5, aerials both on frame 3, out on frame 7 combined)
I'm sure a lot of characters can jump nair, but a lot of frame data threads don't have jump data. I'll try looking some more and updating this post.
I looked around, and here are some potentially practical solutions OoS that come out in 8 frames or less-
Falco - Usmash (hitbox said to be out on frame 8)
Fox - Usmash (frame 8)
MK - Up B (invincible on frames 5-8, hit on 8), jump neutral air (in air on 5, nair out in 3, jump nair should hit on 7), jump uair (frame 6), usmash (frame 8)
Luigi - Usmash (frame 8), up B? (frame 6)
Olimar - Usmash (frame 8)
Mario - Up B (frame 3)
Sheik - Usmash (top hit at frame 4)
Zelda - Usmash (frame 6)
Pikachu - Jump nair, uair (air frame 5, aerials both on frame 3, out on frame 7 combined)
I'm sure a lot of characters can jump nair, but a lot of frame data threads don't have jump data. I'll try looking some more and updating this post.
Valdens
Smash Ace
Wow, Luigi being able to up-b the tornado would be radically matchup changing.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Fox's reflector and Jigg's rest OoS work, lol. I wouldn't rely on those moves though.
Too bad his sweetspot is near his feet and won't connect unless MK was doing a grounded tornado. :\
But, this DOES mean that if MK does do a grounded tornado, MK is **** out of luck lol.
Still, nice food for thought.
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
Yes, but the range is very limited, and the fact that he slides so much makes it pretty impractical, and that's assuming that it will straight up beat the tornado in the first place. There's also the fact that it is very possible that a human will lose a few frames trying to press up and b at the same time.
Valdens
Smash Ace
If he's already tilting the stick up to make his shield less vulnerable to the tornado, human frame loss because of needing to push up shouldn't or wouldn't be an issue.
Itakio
Smash Journeyman
It probably makes it even worse in that case, honestly.
Also, Shoryuken WILL beat the Mach Tornado at point blank. According to any and all priority laws, Shoryuken will beat out the Mach Tornado in a direct hitbox confrontation. Whether you'll actually be able to land it in time is a different story.
Also, the Mach Tornado hit will NOT cause Luigi to slide all that much if at all due to the nature of the hitboxes lol. It'll work if he's grounded.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
You guys are thinking about this the wrong way though, the whole point of grabs being good for this is that they are a. fast and b. have super armor frames. So you'll be able to take the small hit from nado if you time it right giving you a larger window in the first place. I don't see many moves outside of invincible up bs and grabs being useful for punishing a nado, because they either don't have the priority or they aren't fast enough
thespymachine
Smash Ace
I know for a fact that I have nair'd oos to hit MK in tornado before.
Guys I should point out that you can press jump and B at the same time and you will not have any jump frames before your character Up B's out of shield.
That's why Bowser is completely invulnerable from shield to the 6th frame of fortress.
That's why Bowser is completely invulnerable from shield to the 6th frame of fortress.
you can cancel a jump with upB upsmash or an item throw.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Hmm, canceling a tornado is easier than it sounds, meta knight's mach tornado
has crude priority, but it can still be grabbed if timed right. this is much better than trying to think of an attack with enough priority to stop its animation, grounded or aerial, but like he said, its easier to grab them from the air, since less skill is needed....
But ness players are given the most advantage, they have the tail of Pk Thunder
(Infinite Priority)
But many other players have more advantages, the advantage of the pivot grab, to counter out the lag
that grabs would normally have, dash or standing. people with Z airs of knockback can have a advantage over luigis cyclone, for it hits his head, above the tornado hitbox.
has crude priority, but it can still be grabbed if timed right. this is much better than trying to think of an attack with enough priority to stop its animation, grounded or aerial, but like he said, its easier to grab them from the air, since less skill is needed....
But ness players are given the most advantage, they have the tail of Pk Thunder
(Infinite Priority)
But many other players have more advantages, the advantage of the pivot grab, to counter out the lag
that grabs would normally have, dash or standing. people with Z airs of knockback can have a advantage over luigis cyclone, for it hits his head, above the tornado hitbox.
gallax
Smash Hero
im a snake player and i want to know if this works when mk is using the bottom part of the tornado to shield poke? what about if you shield is diminished a lot?
AllyKnight
Banned via Administration
this is kinda useless, MK can just mindgame u and hold still and then **** you when u attempt to grab. me and my bro tried this like 4-5 months ago but it didnt seem useful at all.
6Mizu
Smash Champion
Well, you can still go for a Pivot grab.