Shield Grab Tornado

[Poltergust]

Pink is not even a primary or secondary color. D:<

 

[6Mizu]

I was joking.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Only n00bish MK's get their tornado punished, I use tornado when my opponent lags from a move, or air dodges, rolls, or as a combo follow up, or tornado them in the air, you can't grab in the air. Shield grabbing tornado looks good on paper, but in practice, its very unreliable.

Thanks for the lesson man you da man. Nado = broken...rage ........

 

[Luigi player]

This would be really good. Someone figure out the timing. I tried it a few times, but always got hit.

 

[B.A.M.]

if someone is going to nado u in the air u can just footstool that ish. its ridiculously easy to due to the large hitbox . Theyre isnt any timing as far as i was concerned when it came to powershield grabbing nado. again footstool helps if they attempt to nado ur landing or something. It also aids if they try to up B too hahah footstools ftw. as far as im concerned its a spacing issue if u cant do it. try shield dashing right before u hit nado. U should powershield it then u could grab.

 

[Itakio]

I just tested it in slow-mo, and it seems like only after MK starts descending (i.e. he stops mashing), the tornado hits become less rapid, to a point where you could shield grab it, but if he hasn't started descending yet, I'm pretty sure it's impossible. I don't know though, shield grabbing it consistently at all seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Kewkky]

MKs won't be getting shieldgrabbed out of their tornados anytime soon. Smart MKs only hit your shields with the bottom parts, with the intention of popping you out the top, where they can then take the fight from below you. Grounded tornado is so bad that almost any reliable disjointed attacks can clank with it and stop it, and some others can beat it, unlike when MK is in the air which means it will never stop unless you break straight through it.

If shieldgrab works, go for it! But I'll keep to my surefire way of breaking through (character's moves), as well as waiting on their nados to end in order to punish.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Bowser's grab is too slow, but no MK is gonna tornado him that low because of fortress anyway.

I do need to practice pivot-grabbing it though.

snake is the same speed as bowser

if snake can do it bowser can too

 

[mikeHAZE]

Grounded tornado is so bad that almost any reliable disjointed attacks can clank with it and stop it, and some others can beat it, unlike when MK is in the air which means it will never stop unless you break straight through it.

what are you talking about? Grounded tornado isn't too bad. if it gets canceled by an attack, metaknight can buffer forward tilt after the cancel before you're able to shield

 

[BOB SAGET!]

well olimars love pivot grabbing grounded tornados.

 

[Pierce7d]

what are you talking about? Grounded tornado isn't too bad. if it gets canceled by an attack, metaknight can buffer forward tilt after the cancel before you're able to shield

Now THAT I didn't know. Gay.

 

[mikeHAZE]

Now THAT I didn't know. Gay.

yeah, good bait if you know you'll get utilted

 

[Flayl]

snake is the same speed as bowser

if snake can do it bowser can too

Not exactly. Snake's grab is frame 8, Bowser's is frame 9. Someone posted they had a hard time doing it with Snake, so it should be even harder for Bowser. Why risk mistiming the grab anyway when Bowser can fortress (yeah I know chaingrab).

 

[CaliburChamp]

Not true, lots of MK have their Nado punished at some point. Even M2K.
It may not happen every single match he play, but it happens.

I meant it can't get shield grabbed and if you use it at the right time it can be unpunishable.

 

[<π]

I think what is happening is the nado hit box hits something and then is gone, it probably has very little hit stun so you get enough time to just buffer grab and poof. All the six frame grabbers rejoice. MK has one less approach/pressure option.

 

[B!squick]

Not exactly. Snake's grab is frame 8, Bowser's is frame 9. Someone posted they had a hard time doing it with Snake, so it should be even harder for Bowser. Why risk mistiming the grab anyway when Bowser can fortress (yeah I know chaingrab).

As well, you gotta remember where Snake grabs compared to Bowser. Snake leans forward ever so slightly while Bowser leans forward alot. I think they grab at about the same height, but Bowser would have his big giant head sticking up to get hit.

I just angle my shield up and wait it out to try and punish. Otherwise, as said, I just Fortress that ****. Invincibility frames for the win.

 

[Attila_]

i have a question that i think is relevant here.

im sure everyone has seen the video of mk's hitboxes. looking at the hitbox for tornado, it is made up of 3 hitboxes, one placed on either side and below mk. but this video neglects to show what happens to the hitboxes when mk actually traps a character within the tornado, or when he hits a shield. presumably the hitboxes hit once and then are unable to hit again for a certain amount of frames. this number of frames is extremely relevant here. obviously, if the hitbox does not become active again in the time it takes for shield stun to disappear + 6 frames, most characters in the game could pull this off.

but then after reading prior comments, one must also ask the question of whether or not mashing B speeds up the returning of the hitboxes. if yes, then the frames available to grab become smaller. if not, then it should always be grabbable.

how much do we actually know about the tornado? has this sort of thing been tested for yet? i think it would be rather beneficial to know exact frames for things like this; at least then we could draw up a framework for counters. feasibility or not at this stage should be irrelevant, as we cant know until we try it.

in case you hadnt noticed yet, i really hate this move.

 

[<π]

As well, you gotta remember where Snake grabs compared to Bowser. Snake leans forward ever so slightly while Bowser leans forward alot. I think they grab at about the same height, but Bowser would have his big giant head sticking up to get hit.

I just angle my shield up and wait it out to try and punish. Otherwise, as said, I just Fortress that ****. Invincibility frames for the win.

I think it has nothing to do with size essentially there is no hit box there and thats why you can grab him out, but the hit box reapears after a set number of time so thats why the frame count of your grab hold value.

 

[B!squick]

I think it has nothing to do with size essentially there is no hit box there and thats why you can grab him out, but the hit box reapears after a set number of time so thats why the frame count of your grab hold value.

But again, their's this problem: MK is Tornadoing Bowser's head like he should. Bowser tries to grab way out in front of him. Hmm... But yeah, his grab is too slow anyway. Good thing we have Fortress! :D

 

[<π]

yeah that's a universal problem though.

 

[Asdioh]

I think if MKs tornado correctly you shouldn't be shield grabbing them. =/

With Kirby, I've tried many many times to shieldgrab tornado, and not once has it worked.
However, this is always on wifi so that may be the problem.

kirbys pivot grab ***** nado, i grab yaz's almost everytime

MKs won't be getting shieldgrabbed out of their tornados anytime soon. Smart MKs only hit your shields with the bottom parts

Kewkky said it before I got to. You see, I know Kirby's Fsmash can beat Tornado, but the problem is that MKs with half a brain use it so that the very bottom of the tornado touches the very top of me, meaning that my Fsmash will just go through the very bottom hitbox of Tornado, showing those little clanking animations but not canceling or beating Tornado, and I usually get punished for it.

What I'm wondering, and this is probably the case, is that MK is ungrabbable if he does it right above you. Even if you pivot grab, I'd imagine you'd only attempt to grab the bottom hitbox of the tornado, and not the hurtbox of MK.

:/

Spoiler

because he's broken

 

[<π]

It's hip because as sheik I can duck under tornado if the go high or sheild grab if the go low... should be able to do either on reaction since you can sheild instantly while crouching.

 

[6Mizu]

So are far along are we?

 

[B!squick]

On what?

10onwhats

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. of course you can pivot grab nado, mike haze brought up being able to shield grab nado. if you try to pivot grab out of shield you will just get hit by tornado.

 

[Espy Rose]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. of course you can pivot grab nado, mike haze brought up being able to shield grab nado. if you try to pivot grab out of shield you will just get hit by tornado.

I think people are just confused about timing or properties of shield grabbing it. (?)

Look at the video I posted on the first page.
After that happened, I ran a few tests that day.
At least for Sonic (who is all I tested with, sorry), there was really no timing to shield grabbing the tornado.

As long as Meta Knight's body was within Sonic's grab range, he got grabbed. Otherwise, tornado hit me. Yeah.

 

[Coffee™]

As long as Meta Knight's body was within Sonic's grab range, he got grabbed. Otherwise, tornado hit me. Yeah.

^ pretty much this. I tried it with Pit today and once Metaknight is in range of the grab he gets grabbed. Pit and Sonic have some pretty terrible grab ranges so this should work fine for most characters.

 

[WindMajor]

Link and Toon Link can't grab tornado ever. IDK about other tether grabs.

I've grabbed MK's out of their nados with TL before.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Wait how? Halp?

 

[WindMajor]

Hit the grab button.

And make sure that he's at the right height.

 

[Attila_]

i played around with this and got it to work with snake. seems to be affected by height and mashing of the B button.

 

[Orion*]

someone test with ics please......

 

[Shaya]

It would also depend on where the character grabs btw ('grab hitbox').

Dedede is probably fudged because his shield grab 'sweeps' the ground.
i.e. most likely even a low tornado would still have mk's hurtbox above it.

 

[MarKO X]

the point of this thread is that MetaKnight is overcentralizing the game.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I'm fairly certain the point of this thread is actually shield grabbing tornado.

 

[mikeHAZE]

listen for the tornado hitting your shield, right when it happens grab.

 

[Padô]

I've seen Kovarish pivotgrab with IceClimbers the MKs tornados 3 times in a tourney match and it is very easy if you predict it.

About the shield grab I gotta analyse how many frames does it take to the character to get out of the shield and than add how many frames does the grab takes to grab.

 

[Jupz]

I've seen Kovarish pivotgrab with IceClimbers the MKs tornados 3 times in a tourney match and it is very easy if you predict it.

About the shield grab I gotta analyse how many frames does it take to the character to get out of the shield and than add how many frames does the grab takes to grab.

you can grab instantly out of shield lol


for reference, shield drop is 7 frames.

 

[Padô]

you can grab instantly out of shield lol


for reference, shield drop is 7 frames.

So, gotta analyse how many frames does characters grab take to actually "grab"

Said **** btw.

Is Sonic grab that fast to "grab"? If so I shoudl start from him

 

[Pikabunz]

I don't think you can grab MK while inside the tornado if they're tapping B. Tornado hits like every 5 frames and gives 5 frame shield stun per hit. By the time your shield stun wears off tornado hits again. The only ways you can attack out of it is with Marth or Bowser UpB.