New Smash Bros for WiiU

Shortiecanbrawl said:

I think Kid Icarus, Wario, and Starfox are the only series that will supply us with a female this time around. Unless I'm missing someone major? But I don't think I am.

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Don't forget about Dixie Kong.

Forgot about us, the "Shadow Dreamers"... damn, how could I lol

Anyways, Rouge? Her theme would probably be "Fly In The Freedom" while her Down B would be Pick Nails...

I feel Drop Kick would be better

But yes "Fly In The Freedom" is actually a very good song.

Super Smash Bros. Fan said:

We should be fighting against cuts, not for cuts to make room for newcomers.

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**** yeah. I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one who wants this.



As for Females in the order IMO I see as the most likely: Palutena, Medusa, Dixie/Caeda, Krystal.

Lol Drop Kick? Haha totally

Indeed it is, I've always liked the Dry Lagoon and Mad Space tracks, too...

One thing in Sonic that never got bad was their music.

I'm interested

A new Nintendo character? Finally after all these years?

I'm okay with this.

So far we run this page.

Damn straight we do.

"Before this is over, I'll show you the true power of CHAOS CONTROL"

Like a boss

Seriously, the only female that would really add a lot would be Dixie Kong, because of how unique, versatile, and awesome she was. DKC2 being one of the best platformers ever doesn't hurt either. I still think Dixie is the only character with much of a chance, unless Kid Icarus Uprising is real popular.

Also, I think we should take a rain check on that new Nintendo franchise/main character thing. That article is about a year old...

HyperFalcon said:

The only similar I see to Shadow with Jet is using tech to try and be faster than Sonic. I'd like to know what characteristics you mean.

Sonic 2006 wasn't an "abomination". It was just below average. That speaks nothing about Silver himself other than "I came from a bad game". I tend to avoid those reasons, and it's purely subjective. Your other reason makes sense, though. He's pretty naive, but is a hero through and through.

I hate killing off characters overall. Nobody in the Sonic franchise deserves death. Not even Charmy. They just need less appearances, OR they should be the ones getting more games in general, not a new character per game. Chip was pretty annoying. We need character development for something other than the main characters. Also, Rouge needs to leave? She's the least annoying female in the games overall.

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Shadow and Jet both have the "oh, we're so tough and cool" attitude that has become overly cliche.

I get what you mean on Silver, but I don't think we need another hedgehog. Plus, I want everything involving Sonic 06' to be erased from my head.

The Sonic background characters don't need to die. They just need to disappear, or appear in every couple of games. Really, most of us actual Sonic fans from the 90's and early 2000's just want all the new characters to stop wasting our dang time. Seriously, like 20 Sonic "good guy" and "anti-hero" characters show up per game, and only about five or six of them have any impact on the overall story.

Really, Sonic was so much simpler, cooler, and fun with just Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and especially Sonic, and an appearance or important role by Shadow, Amy, Metal Sonic, or the Chaotix every couple of games.

Shortiecanbrawl said:

I think you should neither fight for, or against cuts. Let them happen, because they're going to. They aren't good, but are neccisary in time crunches. If Sakurai has to cut Lucario, or I dunno, LUCAS to make room for more newcomers, so be it. It's not a good, thing, or a bad thing it's a reality. When time runs low, veterans WILL be cut for newcomers. Newcomers sell the game.

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I would rather them try to give themselves enough time to be satisfied with their roster rather than them ending up in a situation where they're forced to do some cutting. But that's just me. I really don't like cutting characters at all, not even semi-clones.

Metal Overlord said:

@Goku- Sorry for the late response bro, had to take care of some IRL stuff.

But, yeah, basically Iblis, Chrono, asage and I had a little "disagreement" over Sonic about 12-13 pages ago...

That's all I'll say on the subject and I'll just let you go from there.

OT: My personal top three picks for a Nintendo female would be Krystal, Dixie Kong, and Captain Syrup.

I'd replace with Krystal with Misty, though, if I could.

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Ah I see, I'll look for it. Sorry I wasn't around yo

HyperFalcon said:

I changed Ganondorf to Toon Ganondorf. Also, the thing is that Young Link can also rep Majora's Mask that nobody else can. Sheik isn't in it. Zelda represents all the Zelda games better, specifically ones she's appeared in. I considered her the rep for the first three LoZ games. IMO. And remakes are showing the most popular choices. Why else remake Ocarina of Time? Because of popularity. You have a partial point, though.

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What does changing him to Toon Ganondorf do? Still, Toon Link represents what is almost a separate series of cel shaded style Zelda, unlike simple remakes. Majora's Mask is still just a sequel to OoT, who Zelda and Sheik rep whereas Wind Waker has 2 sequels, 4 Swords having a sequel and Minish Cap being considered a prequel to 4 Swords. Relevance isn't the only factor that influences inclusion.
Zelda represents all the Zelda games because they're all her legends, but her Specials being all from Ocarina and the fact that she can turn into Sheik shows her Ocarina rep.

Square Enix is a logical choice. While it doesn't necessarily mean Geno, I'll punch Sakurai's cat if it doesn't\

Edit: Isn't that the old report thing that was proven "Fake"

Sakurai tweeted about it a while ago after people flooded his twitter

That rumor was proved fake weeks ago, dude...

Just saiyan.

Shortiecanbrawl said:

SO WOULD I. I mean, Nintendo hasn't ever given Smash a five year period to develope before. They have all had three or less years. Think of what Brawl could have been with even ONE more year of development time. I'm hoping Sakurai really pushes his time limits this time. I don't care if I'm a year out of college when SSB4 comes out, so long as it's good.

I SUPPOSE

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Hopefully they're given as much time as needed this time around. I mean, this is arguably Nintendo's biggest, most anticipated project ever, they can't really afford to screw anything up...

With 2 systems to develop for now, at least we know Sakurai will have an even bigger team to work with this time around.

The only thing Sakurai ever said about Ridley was "Isn't he too big?"

Not all newcomers "sell" the game. Would anyone buy smash because a Fire Emblem character made it? Probably not. Would anyone buy smash because a Space Animal that isn't Fox made it? Probably not. Would anyone buy smash because of any retro character that isn't Mr. Game and Watch? (his series did sell about 50 million units, after all) Probably not.

Did hundreds of thousands of people buy smash because of Sonic and the related Sonic hype? YESSSSS!!!!

On top of that, veterans do sell. If Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Pikachu, Snake, or Sonic weren't in the game, I would have less interest, and people wouldn't care as much.

Cuts aren't necessarily going to happen though. Sakurai has given no indication as to what he will do with Smash Bros. Wii U or 3DS in terms of roster (other than he has some interest in Capcom). Before Brawl came out, he flat out said there would be cuts, and said at least 1 or 2 characters would be cut (he was probably thinking Pichu and Dr. Mario).

With these two new Smash Bros. games, he'll not just eventually answer whether there will be cuts (on top of newcomers), or if there are a possibility of cuts, but could any of the cut 4/5 characters return.

We really should wait until Sakurai makes any formal announcement on cuts to jump the gun. Heck, we would be lucky if the game has even started development.

Knuckles and Metal Sonic are my favorite characters.

I liked the adventure series though and all the playable characters within it

Shortiecanbrawl said:

Honestly, Dixie has more going for her than THAT. You're really selling her short there.

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She's unique, versatile, awesome, and has a major role in an incredible and popular franchise, in two of the best games in said franchise. What else do you need to say, or to make it in smash=???

Shortiecanbrawl said:

You're right. Let's pack up guys~

Seriously though, cuts are a reality that everyone just needs to understand, you can't fight the possibility. You can't. So don't. Or do, and feel stupid.

Also, newcomers sell Smash. End of story. If people didn't care about newcomers, no one would have bought Melee/Brawl.

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Cuts aren't guaranteed or not guaranteed. We have no confirmation one way or the other. Sakurai I believe has stated he was somewhat happy with the Brawl roster, so I imagine he wouldn't be inclined to change it much. That said, we don't have much else on the issue, except of course speculation (which is a okay with me).

Again, for Brawl Sakurai confirmed cuts 2 1/2 years before the game came out. We shouldn't assume one way or another. However, judging by how Sakurai seems happy with the characters he added, I don't think we should expect him to just throw out a quarter the roster or anything nuts like that. Sakurai recognizes that we cling to these characters more than other fighting game series.

For example, I grew up on Metroid. If Samus was cut, it would be like a part of my childhood that was in Smash was now no longer represented. In Street Fighter, they invent these wacky racial stereotype-prone characters out of the blue. You never hear of them with anything outside of Street Fighter. Sakurai realizes if he takes that risk,

Also, do you really think as many people would buy smash if Mario or Sonic weren't in it=???

People buy smash mostly because they like smash. It's a battle of Nintendo All-Stars! C'mon-who didn't originally buy smash to f*** up Mario as Kirby, and prove that puff balls rules=??? Who didn't get uber hyped to FINALLY see Sonic and Mario battle for REALZ=??? That is the whole premise of smash, and what makes it different. They use pre-established characters, instead of new (stale!) ones like Street Fighter. That's part of smash's appeal, and why Melee and Brawl are the best-selling fighting games of all-time.

The characters as a whole help sell the game and really in a way are the game, for sure. Although newcomers can add hype, the established veterans like the Luigis and Links also add a crap ton of hype. After all, we're all still waiting for a Link that is above average (in Smash 64 and Brawl he sucked, and in Melee he was average).

HyperFalcon said:

I've been with the games from the start. I don't have a problem with most of the secondaries that have appeared in multiple games. It's the one-offs that bother me. If they aren't going to ever get a new appearance, they're not worth it to me.

I don't like characters based solely upon nostalgia. Hell, Tails has zero characterization in the games till Sonic Adventure. Amy had more due to being kidnapped. And that's saying something. Even Knuckles had a bit. And you're overexaggerating on how character per game show up. Honestly, not even Sonic Heroes or Shadow the Hedgehog had nearly that many. But I digress.

Anyway, I still feel that Rouge is the best overall female character as she wasn't a whiny brat, and although she was mostly fanservice, she indeed was a much deeper character than Amy or Cream ever was. And that was in her first game. I think she deserves quite a lot of credit, and should be on the secondary list, as she's just as important as the Chaotix is. Cream played a pretty good role in the Sonic Rush games with Blaze, so she's important to the overall storyline too. And those weren't side games either.

And I see what you mean by Jet and Shadow being similar.

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The personality with Tails before he talked or did anything was how he played. That was his personality early on, and he had such a classic appeal. That is kinda how Amy started out. She was the woman who Sonic was a friend with who he needed to save, but she was not so secretly in love with Sonic.

As for Rouge, she just shows up and says "oh yeah!" and then someone responds "yeah!" She's a living, walking cliche. If Rouge wasn't such a furry, and had more character depth more often, and didn't have such crappy levels, I wouldn't mind her showing up.

Sonic Heroes had about what... 14 characters show up (but the characters were that game, so it gets a pass). Sonic 06' had about... oh... TOO MANY TO COUNT!

And what I mean by characters "just being there" is like all those characters that do nothing in Sonic 06', or those Sonic Rider spin-offs. That's really what a lot of the new wave Sonic fan base wants, and it is sickening.

Aww...You changed your mind just to make my vote meaningless, didn't you...

Shortiecanbrawl said:

PARTLY, and the other half of me remembered that most Pokemon (Even Mewtwo) lose early on in these debates, so I thought Arceus would give the series a fighting chance. Especially if he equips he fist plate

Does anyone know the name of the location you can find Arceus is called in DPPt?

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actually Arceus is great with the fist plate. Even though Ubers are filled with psychics, they don't often use psychic moves BECAUSE it's filled with psychics.

If you don't have to worry about psychic moves, fighting deals great damage and offers some nice resistances

Again, my pokemon knowledge is from LAST generation so this one I have no idea

HyperFalcon said:

That's not really personality as much as you think it is. He's just there for the body count and acts a potential shield. He followed. That's pretty flat. And you really had no idea why outside of the manual.

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Oh, right. Then I suppose Robotnik existed just to wince at getting beaned in his machine (lulz) or gloat at you 'cause he made you lose your rings. Knuckles existed merely to press buttons and put you in a trap while laughing his *** off at you. That is really ****ty logic.

What else did you need to know aside from the fact that Tails followed Sonic around and he flies a plane (even pulling your fat out of the fire with it at the end of Sonic 2 and 3?) Let's face it: If you sat down and played all of the old Sonic games without looking at the instruction manual, you'd hold all of the other characters to those same standards. That's characterization enough as it is.

Watch the cutscenes. She was clearly a very important character in Sonic Adventure 2. In fact, the game couldn't have worked without her. Her other big role was in Sonic Battle.

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Oh, right. Big time role stumbling upon Shadow like that. More like a plot device than actual importance to the plot if you ask me. Shadow and Sonic still took the cake for that one.

Smooth Criminal

I decided go into some details that I think are important in regards to speculation pertaining Fire Emblem in Smash Bros.

On Sakurai and Fire Emblem:
Sakurai has called himself a big fan of the Fire Emblem series. He has gone as far as to be the interviewer for the Iwata Asks feature for Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon. Sakurai has stated that his favorite character in the series is Nabarl.

On Marth in Smash Bros.:
Marth is the face of Fire Emblem in Japan. Fire Emblem Monsho no Nazo is to Fire Emblem as Ocarina of Time is to Zelda or Star Fox 64 is to Star Fox. FE3 is by far the most popular game in the series in Japan, and sold by far the most copies. Marth was also the main lord for four games in the series (two games prior to Melee). Marth was also by far the most requested character to represent the Fire Emblem series in a poll that Sakurai had prior to beginning development on Melee (by comparison, Celice got only four votes, while Sigurd and Leaf only got two votes each).

On Roy in Smash Bros.:
Contrary to popular belief, Roy was not placed in at the request of Intelligent Systems, but rather it was Sakurai's idea. Sakurai said that placing in Roy was his idea and that he did it primarily to promote "not just a new game, but the series as a whole."

On Ike in Smash Bros:
Sakurai stated in an interview with Famitsu that Ike got in Smash Bros. because he wanted Fire Emblem to have a new character from a more recent installment and he did not know who to put in. Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems for help regarding this matter, and Intelligent Systems suggest Ike to Sakurai. It is important to keep in mind that FE9 was the worst selling game in the series in Japan (yes, even selling more poorly than Thracia 776). The only three games in the series to sell below 200K in Japan were FE9, FE5, and FE10. Another interesting thing to note is that Sakurai said he originally planned for Ike to have the Ragnell's ranged attack, however, he felt this made Ike unbalance so it was scrapped.

On Roy being cut from Brawl:
Mewtwo and Roy being cut was likely the result of time constraints. Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he intended more characters to be in Brawl's roster but was not able to implement them due to time constraints.

Those who peered into the game's coding have found character folders for these characters:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dr. Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Plusle & Minun
- Toon Zelda
- Toon Sheik

They are often referred to as being the "Forbidden 7" by the Smash community. There are known reasons as to why some of these characters were dropped. For Dixie Kong, Sakurai mentioned in a Famitsu interview that he originally intended for Diddy & Dixie to be a duo when fighting, however, his team was unable to get team play mechanics to work for them, so Dixie was scrapped. This may have also been the reason that Plusle & Minun was scrapped as well, since they would have utilized a team-based moveset of some sort (however, there are many who also believe that their team play may have been more akin to the Ice Climbers than what Sakurai had planned for Diddy & Dixie). As for Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik, the probable reason as to why they were dropped were possibly Sakurai thinking they did not differentiate themselves enough to be placed on Brawl's roster (as well as for time constraint reasons).


Most Smash fans believe that Sakurai's original plan for the final roster of Brawl was to include Mewtwo and Roy included as playable characters. This is inferred from a file listing from one of Sakurai's scrapped features for Brawl, unique victory themes for every character on Brawl's roster (except Wolf).

snd_bgm_Z01_FMARIO
snd_bgm_Z02_FDONKEY
snd_bgm_Z03_FLINK
snd_bgm_Z04_FSAMUS
snd_bgm_Z05_FYOSSY
snd_bgm_Z06_FKIRBY
snd_bgm_Z07_FFOX
snd_bgm_Z08_FPIKACHU
snd_bgm_Z09_FLUIGI
snd_bgm_Z10_FCAPTAIN
snd_bgm_Z11_FNESS
snd_bgm_Z12_FKUOPA
snd_bgm_Z13_FPEACH
snd_bgm_Z14_FZELDA
snd_bgm_Z15_FSHEIK
snd_bgm_Z16_FICHICLIMBER
snd_bgm_Z17_FMARTH
snd_bgm_Z18_FGAMEWATCH
snd_bgm_Z19_FFALCO
snd_bgm_Z20_FGANON
snd_bgm_Z21_FWARIO
snd_bgm_Z22_FMETAKNIGHT
snd_bgm_Z23_FPITT
snd_bgm_Z24_FZEROSAMUS
snd_bgm_Z25_FPIKMIN
snd_bgm_Z26_FLUCAS
snd_bgm_Z27_FDIDDY
snd_bgm_Z28_FPOKETRAINER
snd_bgm_Z32_FDEDEDE
snd_bgm_Z33_FLICARIO
snd_bgm_Z34_FIKE
snd_bgm_Z35_FROBOT
snd_bgm_Z37_FPURIN
snd_bgm_Z38_FMYU2
snd_bgm_Z39_FROY
snd_bgm_Z41_FTOONLINK
snd_bgm_Z46_FSNAKE
snd_bgm_Z47_FSONIC

This listing showed that Mewtwo and Roy were kept on the roster long after the other characters for the Forbidden 7 had been dropped. The conventional wisdom is that Sonic being placed in so late in the game's development, that development resources had to be allocated from the final five characters that were in development (Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Link, and Wolf) toward Sonic (since unlike the other five, there was no prior planning for his moveset). Jigglypuff was placed on a higher priority due to her seniority in the series, while Toon Link and Wolf were kept because they were new characters, and Sakurai wanted to implement as many new characters as possible. It was thus that Mewtwo and Roy were dropped as a result of priorities and time constraints. It also shows that if Mewtwo and Roy were in Brawl, they would have had no role in the SSE (since their listing is between Jigglypuff and Toon Link).

I hope this helps clarify a few things.

What happened lol..?

Notice how Lucario and Ike are among the last newcomers listed in that file listing. I am guessing that when Sakurai initially grafted most of the roster in 2005, both Lucario and Ike's spots were placeholders, "Pokemon newcomers" and "Fire Emblem newcomer". We already know that the Pokemon Company has a heavy hand in determining Pokemon content in Smash Bros. and that Sakurai did not know who to place in as the Fire Emblem newcomer, so perhaps this theory has merit. If Brawl's first stages of development were delayed until 2006, there is a good chance we would have ended up with Darkrai and Micaiah instead of Lucario and Ike.

Did anyone ever explain what "effects" were? Because the Forbidden 7 aren't in the fighter folder, they're in the effects > fighter folder. I know that still implies they were meant to be playable in SOME FASHION, but still.

Also, one more interesting tidbit to share. Luigi and Ganondorf were both confirmed as playable characters months before Melee was released. Miyamoto (or some other Nintendo elite) confirmed that Luigi would return as a playable character a few months before Melee was released. Ganondorf's confirmation for playable status also was revealed by "insider sources" back in August (I don't remember what site had the article though back during that month). In September though, IGN did confirm that Gaondorf was indeed playable in Melee. This was a very big deal because Ganondorf was by far the most wanted character for Melee at the time.

Here is a link to IGN's pre-Melee release confirmation of Ganondorf:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/098/098563p1.html

Ganondorf was the most requested... post-trailer, right?

HMMM, I just noticed Pichu is in the Melee opening. So the characters we would have had no idea about were Marth, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy, and Young Link. IT'S TOO BAD WE DIDN'T GET SAMURAI GOROH, RIDLEY, AND WOLF INSTEAD.

There were several Brawl leakers. I noticed the similarities between their rumors and pieces them together to get the "rumored roster".