• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

Browny

Smash Hater
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
10,416
Location
Video Games
watchin now. sorry dj

edit: well that video seems to support a nuetral conclusion at best? there was great use of the sd and comboing. but was this a case of knowing your opponent way to well?
i'm not sure. did u find that easy to do?

and the his up b was just in its starting animations wen u baired him i'd say
thats the thing with his upb... apprently it has SA frames during start-up. Ive tested that like crazy with lucarios aura sphere and there must only be like, 2 frames MAX of SA, and its hardly as ungimpable as DK users make it out to be. My spacing of bairs was pretty **** in the third match, i screwed up often, but it is possible to sweetspot bair him out of it

and tenki yeah i know he made mistake, but i made plenty of mistakes too so i think it balances out. him using a fair in the third match and copping a bair for the KO balances out me falling into a full charge dsmash and charging the dsmash way too long in the second match etc.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
I would still like to play someone who can capture our games. me vs. a good sonic will show a much deeper game
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
Ripple, I'm in my college dorm right now, but I'll be going home for the weekend tomorrow afternoon. If my tuner feels like working I should be able to capture our games. I still am kinda scrubby with smash even if I've been playing for yeas cuz I never started seriously playing untiltill brawl, but I can play a mean Sonic.

Even if I lose the some or most of the matches, I think it would be a good experience to feel if it was really a match in DKs advantage, or if it was more your skill that led to my loss.

Btw DJ, I really love your Sonic. You seem to use alot of his moves and techniques quite effectively. And you hit alot of 30ish damage SDR/ASC combos.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Hay Ripple, we can try playing some time and (I can't record) maybe we can play 2-stocks and just send replays to someone who can.

..or you can play dNES and get recorded normally haha.
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965
LINK - Character Matchup 3



Introduction

Link is the protagonist of The Legend of Zelda series by Nintendo. He has saved Hyrule and Princess Zelda from many evils. The wielder of the Master Sword and the holder of the Triforce of Courage. He appears as a main playable fighter in all three Super Smash Bros. games. Link was confirmed for Super Smash Bros. Brawl at E3 2006. His graphics have been completely revamped from his Super Smash Bros. Melee form, since his new look is derived from the game, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.

His special moves have also been changed to fit the style of Twilight Princess.
How does this affect Sonic?



Behaviour:
Link's behaviour can be very different depending on the link. Some can spend all of their time on the ground while others will be air-happy, and mess around with projectiles up there. In regards to this matchup, it's worse of Link hangs in the air.

A good link can use bombs in every situation. Bombs can be used to force certain approaches, provoke certain reactions and provide a failsafe if the Link runs out of other options. Ledgehog bombing is jumping up from the ledge, getting out a bomb, and regrabbing that edge. Not commonly used but can get them unexpected damage if you can't see it coming.
They can also take out a bomb, hold it and defend with fsmashes and nair's, and right when done, throw out the unexpected bomb. Sometimes not effective...easy to see i guess. It gets used tho. They can drop it mid air with a catch before the hit the ground again, this can be offputting. + link can drop 2 bombs on the platforms on battlie field, limits a lot of jumping approaches.
Just double jumping and throwing one can limits links opponents approach from the arc that bomb follows.

Legan was a very aerial Link when I last played him a few weeks ago. He was continually jumping and dropping bombs on the floor, which made trying to grab his landings a painful experience, and missed grabs... problematic, since it would lead into some sort of bomb punishment combo.
-Tenki

One hit from an Fsmash and you get 35% damage. ONE MOVE (two hits) = 35% damage. That's a lot. His Dair and his DAC are deadly as well. Now one thing I do agree with is the gimping...he is very easy to gimp. Most people I think can agree with this.

Arrows will also be used alot, learn about arrow cancelling, because Link's do it. It's much faster than shooting a normal arrow.

DAC Smash: Link's sliding up-smash, pretty much. Can be pretty lethal, but very easy to avoid.

A link will probably start a matchup by spamming some arrows, maybe whipping out a bomb or even 'ranging. It's their way of applying pressure early. Links play a very smart game, they are low -tier (tiers are for queers) so the good Links are really smart players. They play a setup game. The use those projectiles to force you into situations where Link is advantageous, in this case, the air. (or just to slow you down). They like to control the match from the middle of the stage, as they are very gimpable, and like to be able to move in either direction if the situation calls for it. They are pretty darn patient, so if they think a counter-attack only has 25% of hitting, they'll probly leave it until they have a sure-fire approach.
Their hits do hurt alot tho (fmash 35% did i hear?) and their dsmash has alot of kill potential, they'll save em for u tho.
Tilts are pretty dangerous and jab canceling is really useful for Links, with a wide range of options.

Commonly Used Moves:

Bombs:
There is a bit of spiel about their use in the Behaviour section, so it'l suffice to say here that they use them for spacing purposing and forcing certain approaches
Boomerang: Similar use to the bombs, the rang will usually be thrown not to hit, but for some strategic purpose, ie restrict a part of the stage that Link is uncomfortable with.
Arrows: Arrow cancelling is good. Links do it a lot, dangerous projectile against sonics approach if you approach carelessly. arrow cancelling- This is when link shoots an arrow as soon as he hits the ground, there is a slight lag after the shot but he can short hop it and do it out of aerials, the most commonly used is to use it after a back air. This will stop sonic in his tracks when he thinks he has an easy approach.
Craq Walking-Link has this rediculous ability to slide all over the place. This momentum technique works best after using a zair or a short hopped bair/nair. Every move that link makes is a potential mindgame.
U-smash: the can DAC, slided smash - so watch out, but you will most likely see this coming
F-tilt
N-air
Zair- Used for recovering, spacing, approaching, and retreating. There is absolutely no lag after it meaning the player can follow up with any attack they want. They can also zair while holding a bomb, which means if you get hit with the zair, you're mostly likely going to get an explosive in your face immediately after. This attack is quick and can be done immidately out of an airdodge.
Jab: can be cancelled to go into other moves, like Ike/Falcon, so don't always assume it'll be jabjabjab. Also infinite jab is do-able on sonic, so yer, avoid that, don't get knocked into it
F-smash/D-smash/D-air: for kills (though, grounded Up-B and the other aerials can be used too, situationally)

How to Win:
If you are ever hanging on the ledge, link can SH dair over the edge and if you do anything except roll onto the stage, youre going to die. even so, theres still no avoiding it if he predicts a roll onto the stage and just hovers over the end of the roll to dair you. i think the safest way out is to just jump off the edge and maybe spinshot or spring/homing attack back onto the stage.
djbrowny

From fighting another Link, his N-air, though weak, can outprioritize alot of your attacks, which is a bit of a problem.

Legan was a very aerial Link when I last played him a few weeks ago. He was continually jumping and dropping bombs on the floor, which made trying to grab his landings a painful experience, and missed grabs... problematic, since it would lead into some sort of bomb punishment combo.

Other Links that I fought were either ground based trying to create an 'aura of projectiles', or aerial-based, like Legan's. The ground-based ones, possibly because I'm a very ground-based player, got pretty owned because they were more vulnerable to grabs =/

IMO it's very important to keep shielding in mind when fighting any slow-projectile user. Their movements are usually traps made so that if you dodge, you get hit, or if you get hit, you get hit by a followup. So if you're in close range and your opponent has a slow projectile, be prepared to shield and avoid a second attack.

Link D-air a good 'counterkill' for Sonics who try to U-throw > Spring > U-air if the Sonic is 60% or above. If you do it, do it so it ends by the time you land - it's severe mindgames for landing-lag-grab-happy Sonics. As for laggy D-airs, I usually just avoid and counter with F-smash or B-air `.`; It's not like it's a secret - alot of us have been aware of this stuff anyway lol.

-Tenki

Gimp and Pressure. Pressure that guy. Shield projectiles, throw em back, eat em, just get around them. Spinshot is great against Link and this is a match where you can actually use Sonic's ground speed. If the Link likes to start with an arrow run and shield. All of his moves are strong and he focuses on spacing, so use tilts and spindashes to get to him. Dash attack is a pretty decent approach too. Your main focus of this match is to control the projectiles and get him off the stage.
-Camalange

One thing I'd suggest to Sonic mains is never recover from below if you can help it. You will get D-aired and it will suck.

However, a good Link will always have bombs out, and will arrow cancel. Arrow Cancelling will be avoided if you approach cleverly, not too sure how to deal with the bombs though. Several nasty Links like to keep to the air and throw bombs down at the ground to put you off camping their landing spot and grabbing. Just remember "what comes up, must come down" (Sonic Heroes is a good song, dammit) so you will catch him on the fall if you're smart. When not approaching, you need to be not too far away, or you'll get ***** by projectiles.
Up close fighting Sonic outmatches or at least goes even with Link too. Once up close Link cannot do much other than his jabs, U tilt and Fsmash. most of which if blocked are easily punished.
-ROOOY!

. I have trouble when they SH FF nair. Kinda ruins your momentum and makes you need to restart/think your approach. Link's not TOO much or a threat in the air though, it's more his non-sword aerials oddly enough that are mostly effective, mostly because the moves involving a sword are pretty punishable (dair, anyone?)
Ultimately, it's a game where you need to be on the ball. You need to be spaced properly so you can't be spammed to death with projectiles. Screw that up, and you'll probably be dying early. I endorse it all the time, but ftilt is a good move lol.

Id agree with the matchup being in sonics favor. After playing Tenki and some other freakishly good sonics, I came to realize that sonic can have his way with link if he doesnt understand the matchup. This is assuming that the sonic has experience with link and isnt careless. Most of sonics aerials render the gale boomerang useless, Shield dash approaching and just taking your time can really screw with links bomb game. Not to mention, sonic is fast as balls. If the link knows how to use his aerials perfectly while mixing in a perfect blend of arrow cancels and down thrown bombs, Then it's in the bag for link. For the people that that it is hard to dair a recovering sonic I lol @ you. Sonics recovery is awkward and it rarely sweet spots, It is nothing to run off the stage and dair his up B or bair stage spike him.

-Legan
Recommended Stages:

LYLAT CRUISE: I am seeing a pattern here. Once again Lylat Cruise gives Sonic a bit of an advantage in this one. Not only do they curves complement Sonics playstyle but they can also be used to reduce the effectiveness of the projectiles that Link's rely on. The platforms are also all placed well so avoiding drop bombs becomes alot easier.


Matchup Summary: 60:40 Sonic
 

Browny

Smash Hater
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
10,416
Location
Video Games
I have one Link main on my FC list but im a fair amount better at brawl than he is so i dont think videos of our matches would do any justice. Link does have a few nice tricks... if you are ever hanging on the ledge, link can SH dair over the edge and if you do anything except roll onto the stage, youre going to die. even so, theres still no avoiding it if he predicts a roll onto the stage and just hovers over the end of the roll to dair you. i think the safest way out is to just jump off the edge and maybe spinshot or sping/homing attack back onto the stage.

Hes a pretty easy matchup for me, drop springs on his head and throw him off the stage often, if you can predict a zair recovery you can get an easy stage spike with dair.
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965

R4ZE

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
721
Location
Florida
gimp him...

i havent fought a good one because good links are pretty rare. never seen a link that uses arrow cancelling or jab cancelling much.

But sitll the main weakness to abuse here is bad recovery.

Given that he has pretty good range on his melee attacks, may want to try to score grabs via sheild cancelling. ASC is actually an ok approach to use on him. You will also be dealing with some spam, so just be ready to jump at the appropriate times. Please note that ASC eats boomerangs.(if i remember correctly.)
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Haay! I played against Legan!

really fun games.

Well, he's the one of the only good Links I've played, but from the looks of it, Link mains as a whole suffer from the sort of... disjoint unique playstyles that Sonic mains do. That is, I don't believe they play similarly.

He has really nice ways of using bombs to set up short-altitude aerial combos, pivot boosts, and such.

From fighting another Link, his N-air, though weak, can outprioritize alot of your attacks, which is a bit of a problem.

Well, you'll have to adapt to your specific Link's playstyle, haha.

Legan was a very aerial Link when I last played him a few weeks ago. He was continually jumping and dropping bombs on the floor, which made trying to grab his landings a painful experience, and missed grabs... problematic, since it would lead into some sort of bomb punishment combo.

Other Links that I fought were either ground based trying to create an 'aura of projectiles', or aerial-based, like Legan's. The ground-based ones, possibly because I'm a very ground-based player, got pretty owned because they were more vulnerable to grabs =/

Well, since their playstyles can be pretty different, be familiar with his projectiles' timing. I believe Link's up-smashed throw lasts for 3 seconds, tilt-throw lasts for 2 seconds, and his bombs have a 5 second timer. His smashed boomerang throw lasts for 3 seconds before it comes back, and his tilted boomerang throw lasts for 2 seconds before it comes back to him (unless he moves, that is). Someone correct me if those aren't right.

Bombs bounce off shields, so you can screw up your opponent's timing with stuff (especially bomb > grab traps) by shielding the bomb so it bounces a certain way. Works wonders with Peach Bobombs, by the way, lol. If he's taking into account your shield, then you're still free to dodge or roll to avoid the counterattack.

IMO it's very important to keep shielding in mind when fighting any slow-projectile user. Their movements are usually traps made so that if you dodge, you get hit, or if you get hit, you get hit by a followup. So if you're in close range and your opponent has a slow projectile, be prepared to shield and avoid a second attack.


edit:
ohya, so, watch out for Link's DAC. It slides a pretty far distance and has 3 hits, `.`; kinda sucked to deal with it on Battlefield lol
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
6,473
Location
San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
3DS FC
2191-8960-7738
I've never fought a Sonic as Link at all, but I can fairly see how this match-up is gonna go.

A good Link is not going to let Sonic get close. Link has three projectiles, superior spacing ability, a lot of techs (pivot sliding, jab canceling, bomb dropping, etc.) and has overall better range than Sonic. It doesn't matter if you happen to dodge an attack because that Link can use his jabs and tilts to keep Sonic back to do a rinse and repeat method.

Sonic is gonna have to do what Metaknight does and get up close and personal as quickly as possible.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
I've never fought a Sonic as Link at all, but I can fairly see how this match-up is gonna go.

A good Link is not going to let Sonic get close. Link has three projectiles, superior spacing ability, a lot of techs (pivot sliding, jab canceling, bomb dropping, etc.) and has overall better range than Sonic. It doesn't matter if you happen to dodge an attack because that Link can use his jabs and tilts to keep Sonic back to do a rinse and repeat method.

Sonic is gonna have to do what Metaknight does and get up close and personal as quickly as possible.
Theoretically.

However, trying to space with projectiles like that usually ends up with Link being on the floor, and Link being on the floor = Link getting grabbed.

Besides, as long as the boomerang's out of the way, ASC or some other diagonal approach - heck, HOMING ATTACK can get you near-in front of or actually hitting Link.

edit:
the safest way to take out items or whatever is to D-throw a boomerang or something, but even then, if the boomerang is out and Sonic avoids it, you're in his punishment range.

Don't throw this theoretical crap at me.
Just think about it this way. In the time that it takes for Link to take out a bomb, Sonic can run and grab him from across FD.

>_> In fact, that's how I open up against Link, Peach, and Diddy players who habitually take out items as soon as the game starts.

edit:
One of the safest ways for Link to take out an item or whatever is to block off the ground with a boomerang and/or arrows. Even then, the boomerang has to make its way back to Link first, and arrows can be gone over with spinshot.

Don't throw this theoretical crap at me.

Like it or not, the game WILL make it to close combat. Tilts and jabs can and will be running-shield-grabbed, or just avoided and punished.

seriously, people and the "lolrangelolpriority" argument.
=============
edit2:

IMO, this matchup neutral or slightly in Link's advantage, just to appease people who overestimate projectiles.

But really, Sonic can force the game into close range, but Link's (non-sword) aerial game can easily stop Sonic's attacks. Bomb traps and such, not a bad thing. Off-stage, or near the edge, it's not too difficult to either get a free hit on Link or gimp him altogether, since, by the edge, Link will tend to move in towards the stage, and off-stage, he's limited by his poor horizontal reach.

If I was ignorant and just put aside Link's on-stage/aerial game, I'd even say it was in Sonic's advantage, however, those are the only things that can make this matchup problematic, from my experience.
 

Crow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
1,415
Location
Columbus, OH
Link and Sonic interact strangely. Link has the tools to shut Sonic down; when Link is "off balance" (i.e. in the air, at close range, etc) Link normally has a disadvantage, but Sonic's general moveset doesn't let him capitalize on that. Without a projectile or a good air game, and with only minimal punishments to mistakes on Link's part, Sonic's disadvantages become even more painful than usual against Link.

Meanwhile, Sonic is used to performing gimp kills, and that happens to be Link's big achilles heel. Get Link off the stage, and the stock is Sonic's.

The game is therefore likely to be one of positioning more so than spacing; Sonic must focus on forcing Link to leave the center of the stage, while Link, if he's smart, will be working to remain there. If you're Sonic, pick a smaller stage. If you're Link, pick a stage on which it is easy to recover despite a lack of good running platforms (Norfair comes to mind).
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
I was chatting with Legan on the Link boards... isn't he from Sweden?! I've never bothered trying to play anyone that far away. PR is the furthest. Back on topic, Link is at the bottom of the tier list primarily because of his bad match up against characters with strong chain grabs like falco and DeDeDe. His biggest weakness is how easily he can be gimped (killed early at low percents (For those not familiar with the lingo). One of his best recoveries is the double tap Z tether. This gives him invincibility frames when he hooks the ledge.

I'm not one to depend on gimping with Sonic, but it looks like this is something that Link is weakest at. If you can do anything to force him off stage then you should keep pressure on him at all costs. Even if it's jumping out and then quickly grabbing the ledge to limit one of his recoveries. If you time it right, your invincible frames will protect you from any projectiles, similar to when ivysaur is trying to recover. His tether is no where near as long as Samus' so keep in mind that he has to be much closer to use it. He can also use it only up to 3 times before he must grab solid ground again. If you see link fast falling from the ledge and using his tether... keep track of this and you'll know when he's GOING to have to come up.

This week sucked with school so maybe I can get some matches in with Links (which I really didn't get to do with DK).

Edit: Like ^^ he said
 

Bouse

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
720
Location
MD
Oddly enough I see this match-up as neutral. Sonic is a fast character with low priority, but with proper approaches and consistent pressuring can keep Link from doing much. On the other hand, Link has the spacing and projectiles to stop Sonic from getting up in his face. If the Link is smart enough he should have a slight advantage. I've played I think Tenki and a few other good Sonics on the AiB ladder. From the Link side it's a lot about knowing Sonic's approaches and their potential outcomes. Outside of that DI properly out of things like his Uthrow, and knowing that he can Stutter-Step(?) his Fsmash help you to avoid getting hit by the #$*@storm.
 

R4ZE

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
721
Location
Florida
Sonic 60/40 Link i say


the gimping just gives sonic such an easy way to kill link.

Link takes sooooo long to kill sonic.. so many hits must be landed. and really.. sonic is one of the hardest characters to hit. PLUS link has a tether grab, which means he cant grab counter ASC, and also.. ASC eats boomerangs, and goes over arrows.
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
Spinshot anyone? Link can't really throw out projectiles in quick succession enough to stop consistently stop Sonic from appoaching. SDR goes under charged arrows if close enough, and under the boomerang. Arrows are easy enough to powershield. And they're all fairly easy to dodge if you're in the air. I'm pretty proficient at grabbing links bombs. I wouldn't say his projectiles are a major problem for Sonic.

The hardest thing about this match-up for me is Links range. It's annoying when you're trying to jab and then his jab beats out yours because of range. Dair can kill you quite early, but I'm pretty sure the second hit of Uair outprioritizes it, so space it well. A good link however can be annoying with bombs. Zair is also a pain because of its ridiculous speed and range. Link aerials overall have pretty nice range.

Don't dair into his Uair, please. Unless you want sword up your big toe.

If you are recovering from below and afar, watch out for his gale boomerang. A good link might bounce it off the edge of the stage s that thhe boomerang pushes you away from your UpB.

Can't think of much else to say. This match is even at worst.
 

IceDX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
683
Location
Tijuana, México
NNID
TheIceDX001
I say 70/30 on Sonic´s favor agaist link for the above post reasons on links spam game being too slow
 

Camalange

Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
9,420
Location
Seattle
NNID
Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208
I play against a really good Link very often so I'm going to put in my thoughts. Everyone is saying how slow Link's projectiles are. They might not be like Pit spam worthy, but those arrows fly very fast, and combine that with the arrow canceling (jump shoot arrow, shoot arrow right when landing to shoot faster), mix in some bombs, throw out a random boomerange or too, and sometimes a DAC, it can get tough if you get caught in this. SideB eats boomeranges (good to know). The main thing is working on projectile timing. True, Sonic can pressure him easily with his speed and spinshot, but don't underestmate those projectiles.
R4ZE, Link can kill faster than you think. One hit from an Fsmash and you get 35% damage. ONE MOVE (two hits) = 35% damage. That's a lot. His Dair and his DAC are deadly as well. Now one thing I do agree with is the gimping...he is very easy to gimp. Most people I think can agree with this.

Behavior: Link will be trying to control the stage whereas Sonic will be trying to get him OFF the stage. He's all about spacing and well executed attacks (Link is not a sloppy guy. Each move will be well thought out)
Commonly used moves: Arrows, Boomerangs, Bombs, DAC, Zair
How to Win: Gimp and Pressure. Pressure that guy. Shield projectiles, throw em back, eat em, just get around them. Spinshot is great against Link and this is a match where you can actually use Sonic's ground speed. If the Link likes to start with an arrow run and shield. All of his moves are strong and he focuses on spacing, so use tilts and spindashes to get to him. Dash attack is a pretty decent approach too. Your main focus of this match is to control the projectiles and get him off the stage.
Recommended Stages: Lylat Cruise, Smashville
Matchup Summary: I'd say its about even. Link seems to control the stage, and Sonic destroys off of it.

This is just my quick thoughts on the match. I'll try and get more details later.
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
Wall Of Text!!!

I was chatting with Legan on the Link boards... isn't he from Sweden?!
No my friend, he's from America. You're thinking about Izaw, the best Link main in Europe.

Tip for Link, space the hell out of Sonic. Don't let him get you off the stage. Wait, regardless, you're dead. Link's craptastic recovery will get him killed easy. All you need to do is Bthrow him. And what's a spin shot? I'm not familiar with Sonic AT's so can anyone tell? And an unexpected kill move for Link is the utilt. It is better for killing upwards than the Usmash. It's faster, and a lot more unexpected. And even if we can't kill you with a laggy smash attack, Utilt will get the job done.

I'm a more ground based Link and guy who says Link doesn't use jab canceling, you're dead wrong. Jab canceling is one of Link's most effective maneuvers. You can Jab cancel to almost anything like Dsmash (my fave) or Utilt. (Dsmash btw, is one of my favorite kill moves. It can kill in front or behind. It's amazing)

Enough about killing, here's how to win. Link's Dair is arguably (maybe not) the most laggy move in the game. It's a main killer from the air (Usmash for Sonic is not recommend if your "TOO SLOW" to get up in the air (which he's not, because of you Red Spring of Doom)). It's easily punished and and shield grabbed. (Why am I telling our secrets away to Sonics?) Shield dashing is your friend here. You can shield anything (bomb, rang, arrow) and make Link's projectile's useless on the ground. And the Zair is quite the spacer. Shield that also. And a shielded bomb will easily be faired or naired and grabbed up to throw again. And we can Fsmash with a bomb. ;) It's incredibly useful for mindgames (say like miss Fsmash, you roll away, dash back and we throw bomb :D) and it will surprise you and make you open for a Dash attack to utilt.

Recommended Stages? Anything that gimps projectiles (check out my stage discussion thread to see what stages are really bad: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183743 ) Stages like PS1 (Windmill). And anything with a walk of end of it. Castle Siege is a CP and you can do that there. Bthrow always gets me. :( Battlefield is a stage to be avoided. It's one of Link's best stages (along side Norfair :) (You should see Deva there! Dayum!!!!)).

Overall, the match up is about even. Link's got an edge with his tether grab (powershield FSMASH-> shield grab) and projectiles. Just run up to him. We've got the advantage of priority (like most of Sonic's match ups) and you've got speed. So it's about 55: 45, Sonic's favor.


That's it for me, so keep smashing.
 

IceDX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
683
Location
Tijuana, México
NNID
TheIceDX001
Get him off the stage, gimp of his bad-ish recovery, and then use side taunt. =)
my point exactly...
we need to be done with Link already... This Thread is Too Slow XD

What a Spinshot???.
a Spinshot is an AT. that we use to close in on spammers jaj, its an oval jump that covers a large distance wile moving near ground running speed...:bluejump:
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
my point exactly...
we need to be done with Link already... This Thread is Too Slow XD
I think it's moving fine, we were stuck on DK for a while, but we're moving fine now. Even if it's 3-4 days for each character, that's a fine rate... what else are we going to talk about here on the Sonic boards besides character match ups? Seriously.

Thanks for the input Blu
 

Onomanic

Heaven Piercer
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,263
Location
Westwood, NJ
I think it's moving fine, we were stuck on DK for a while, but we're moving fine now. Even if it's 3-4 days for each character, that's a fine rate... what else are we going to talk about here on the Sonic boards besides character match ups? Seriously.

Thanks for the input Blu
Anytime man. If you do Fox, PM me. :p I main Fox, know a bit about the match up. :D
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
^why yes, and also, Legan is NJ, I think.

Enough about killing, here's how to win. Link's Dair is arguably (maybe not) the most laggy move in the game. It's a main killer from the air (Usmash for Sonic is not recommend if your "TOO SLOW" to get up in the air (which he's not, because of you Red Spring of Doom)). It's easily punished and and shield grabbed. (Why am I telling our secrets away to Sonics?) Shield dashing is your friend here. You can shield anything (bomb, rang, arrow) and make Link's projectile's useless on the ground. And the Zair is quite the spacer. Shield that also. And a shielded bomb will easily be faired or naired and grabbed up to throw again. And we can Fsmash with a bomb. ;) It's incredibly useful for mindgames (say like miss Fsmash, you roll away, dash back and we throw bomb :D) and it will surprise you and make you open for a Dash attack to utilt.
at bold 1:
Link D-air a good 'counterkill' for Sonics who try to U-throw > Spring > U-air if the Sonic is 60% or above. If you do it, do it so it ends by the time you land - it's severe mindgames for landing-lag-grab-happy Sonics. As for laggy D-airs, I usually just avoid and counter with F-smash or B-air `.`; It's not like it's a secret - alot of us have been aware of this stuff anyway lol.

at bold 2:
Sonic can smash with items like caught bombs, too ;p

I did it to a Peach when I had a turnip in hand. I charged the smash for about a second and he floated around in front of me freaking out while trying to make sense of it, then got smashed to death.

'sall good.
 

Pheonix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
270
Location
San Diego
NNID
FrostboltPhoenix
Not to mention Sonics godlike glide tossing.
-Catch a bomb
-Spincharge once (just get the ground hits)
-Jump to cancel Spincharge
-Glidetoss bomb
-Link gets tossed into the air
-DI'd Usmash
-Spring Gimp (for the lulz)
-Profit!

Of course it's REALLY situational, but good to know nonetheless.

And a Bthrow -> Semi-Spike Dair can get the job done even if they are at 0%
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965
Great input so far. Sorry I haven't been around, I'vebeen writing debates.
So far we've got 50:50 or 55:45 Link from Tenki
60:40 Sonic from R4ze
70:30 Sonic from IceDX
50:50 Bouse
50:50 Napi

I think the biggest issue in this thread that'll determine the matchup will be whether the Link you play is an aerial link or a ground link ---> grab game importance ftw.
Also utilisation of Sonics larger knockback moves such as b-air, maybe d-throw?

P.S. Will put the first link update tomorrow night (my time), coz its fathers day tomorrow in the land of oz.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
-DI'd Usmash


And a Bthrow -> Semi-Spike Dair can get the job done even if they are at 0%
2 questions:

-What is DI'd Usmash...?

-Have you ever fought anyone who knows how to DI Sonic's aerials? :urg:
D-air can help your opponent recover as long as he's doing correct DI (upwards+towards stage)
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
Finally a Sonic advantage lol.
Sonic 60/40 Link i say
I've gotta agree with that. Projectiles aren't a problem if you have two functioning limbs because you can approach ala Spinshot or you know just closing him down running at him (Spinshot is the intelligent option.) If Link's throwing out projectiles he's going to get punished for it because he doesn't have something he can use in quick succession projectilewise. However, a good Link will always have bombs out, and will arrow cancel. Arrow Cancelling will be avoided if you approach cleverly, not too sure how to deal with the bombs though. Several nasty Links like to keep to the air and throw bombs down at the ground to put you off camping their landing spot and grabbing. Just remember "what comes up, must come down" (Sonic Heroes is a good song, dammit) so you will catch him on the fall if you're smart. When not approaching, you need to be not too far away, or you'll get ***** by projectiles.
Up close fighting Sonic outmatches or at least goes even with Link too. Once up close Link cannot do much other than his jabs, U tilt and Fsmash. most of which if blocked are easily punished.
Zair is an interesting one. The best way to deal with it is to bait it out and then dash in. I don't have too much problem with it myself, though I know some people do.
DAC Upsmash is a pain. Thankfully, it won't kill at low percents.
Gimping him goes without saying lol. Sonic has good horizontal airspeed, like the 6th best in the game or something, and reliable ways of getting hack to the stage. Just chase him. Bthrow at a good percent then be smart about it and you'll have a dead Link. Yes he can use bombs to recover but by the time he's got one out you should have intercepted him and he shouldn't get the chance to recover.
What Link has on us is priority, but that holds true in like every match-up bar one, and there are ways to avoid it. I have trouble when they SH FF nair. Kinda ruins your momentum and makes you need to restart/think your approach. Link's not TOO much or a threat in the air though, it's more his non-sword aerials oddly enough that are mostly effective, mostly because the moves involving a sword are pretty punishable (dair, anyone?)
Ultimately, it's a game where you need to be on the ball. You need to be spaced properly so you can't be spammed to death with projectiles. Screw that up, and you'll probably be dying early. I endorse it all the time, but ftilt is a good move lol.

On a side note, if you're playing a dair happy Link (even if they're using it intelligently) space it right and your uair will break though it (: Or do what I do, spring (or just double jump really) -> airdodge -> nair. It's more damage, but the timing has to be beautiful. It's fairly risky, but then, what isn't with Sonic?

:011:
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
I say it's 40:60 to Sonic's favour:
*Try to shield grab him from the DAC
*If you send a Link far from the stage, they will DI towards the stage, waiting for the right moment to DJ>upB, that's when you intercept.
*Down throw of the stage followed by a run off Fair is good
*Look out for his Forward tilt, it's as powerful as his forward smash and is normal fresh.
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965
I'm pretty sure Links are aware of their bad recovery, much like DK, and will use it at its best possible instance. So when D-thrown they will probably use it instanty or tether grab? I was thinking at high %'s just the d-throw would have enough knockback.
Instant-hog is a good option if you think ur fair will just get owned by his recovery.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
I'm pretty sure Links are aware of their bad recovery, much like DK, and will use it at its best possible instance. So when D-thrown they will probably use it instanty or tether grab? I was thinking at high %'s just the d-throw would have enough knockback.
Instant-hog is a good option if you think ur fair will just get owned by his recovery.
Link is one of my mains. When he tether grabs you can hit him out off it before he pulls himself to the ledge. The tether grab doesn't have good range and at the angle the Down throw sends them they don't have many options.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
Tip for Link, space the hell out of Sonic. Don't let him get you off the stage. Wait, regardless, you're dead. Link's craptastic recovery will get him killed easy. All you need to do is Bthrow him. And what's a spin shot? I'm not familiar with Sonic AT's so can anyone tell? And an unexpected kill move for Link is the utilt. It is better for killing upwards than the Usmash. It's faster, and a lot more unexpected. And even if we can't kill you with a laggy smash attack, Utilt will get the job done.
spacing against Sonic is difficult. That extremely hih ground speed as well as the fact his spindash breaks all of your projectiles except the bomb can mean problems.
Spacing with the Zair isn't recommended since spincharge/Dash go under ut.

Spinshotting allows sonic to fly in an arc moving at speed greater than yoshi.
From there he has a number of moves to follow up with as well as performing another spinshot before he lands on the ground.

I'm a more ground based Link and guy who says Link doesn't use jab canceling, you're dead wrong. Jab canceling is one of Link's most effective maneuvers. You can Jab cancel to almost anything like Dsmash (my fave) or Utilt. (Dsmash btw, is one of my favorite kill moves. It can kill in front or behind. It's amazing)
I prefer jab canceling into an Fsmash or Dsmash.
They are sexy.
Recommended Stages? Anything that gimps projectiles (check out my stage discussion thread to see what stages are really bad: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183743 ) Stages like PS1 (Windmill). And anything with a walk of end of it. Castle Siege is a CP and you can do that there. Bthrow always gets me. :( Battlefield is a stage to be avoided. It's one of Link's best stages (along side Norfair :) (You should see Deva there! Dayum!!!!)).
RC is pretty good too by the way.
Overall, the match up is about even. Link's got an edge with his tether grab (powershield FSMASH-> shield grab) and projectiles. Just run up to him. We've got the advantage of priority (like most of Sonic's match ups) and you've got speed. So it's about 55: 45, Sonic's favor.


That's it for me, so keep smashing.
While priority is always an issue Link has difficult up close. He isn't exactly vert fast and a good amount of his moves also extend his hurtbox.
I would say 60/40 in Sonic's favor.
I've been a Link mainer since 64 and I am quite sure of this one from being on both sides of thi match.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
50:50 or 45:55 Link from Tenki
60:40 Sonic from R4ze
70:30 Sonic from IceDX
50:50 Bouse
50:50 Napi
60:40 ROOOOY!
60:40 Chis
60:40 O.T.L
60:40 ShadowLink

Anyways, Link's commonly used moves and behavior, anyone?

Commonly used moves :
All projectiles really, if we're talking non match-up specific to Sonic. Bombs are vital and most important, though.
Zair
DAC Upsmash
Jab (cancel)
Umm...not too sure what else...
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Couldn't Link just... jab Sonic away if he gets up close? I think this match up is pretty neutral.. If Link gets Sonic off the edge at high percents and forces him to use up+b, it's an easy d-air like Kirby....
 

Finns7

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
896
I havent played that many sonics I think tenki was the best prob though (im dolphins22). It doesnt seem like sonic has killing moves over the 9000 lvls, so against link I think you should grab a little more than usual when he misses an attack or you shield grab him. I say grab because you can punch him thus refreshing your kill moves (bair, dsmash by the edge).

If your playing a good Link dont expect to get the fsmash to connect that much. When link is off the edge the spring thing really works well but it can be avoided with proper DI from the link player. I think in order to approach the sonic player must use mindgames and use sonics trademark advantage=speed.

When your playing against good Links Learn how to DI properly and Try not to get caught in a combo. You guys might be saying Link has no combos but trust me his projectiles can set up very nasty things, and if you chain this together with his sword attacks Link can be deadly. His bombs are the main combo starter imo but his rang can too so be careful when approaching.

Now all this depends on who your playing against, most Links are not at the sayain levels and most Links have there own style of play. Sonic can be very annoying to a link player with his speed and if you react to the links mistakes and not make any yourself you can come out the victor this is the same for virtually all chars imo.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
Commonly user moves:
Gale guarding
Up tilt at low percentages
Down smash for kills and for punishing rolling
Regrabing with the claw shoot for invinciblity frames
 
Top Bottom