Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

Also....suck my double post.

NESS - Character Matchup 12

Introduction

Behaviour:

Commonly Used Moves:

How to Win:

Recommended Stages:

Matchup Summary:

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Hey greenstreet can we move on and also I contributed a bit on Ness did you see it and also I'am freeso can I help you?

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

That's ok mate. Leave the updatin up to me. If you really want something to do go make a thread in the Ness boards informing them that we are now discussing them in our matchup discussion thread. Something to that effect, and that it would be helpful if they came and discussed it with us. Put a link to this page in it as well...

Terios the Hedgehog · Oct 31, 2008

Heh. This oughtta be fun.

ROOOOY! · Oct 31, 2008

Ehhh..
"Sonic has no mindgame potential."
I dunno if you were around then, but this should be...interesting..

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

Possibly not. Is that the Ness's quote I assume?

Napilopez · Oct 31, 2008

Hmm... Ness. It used to be one of my annoying matchups, mostly because of Fair walls. Umm, dont get hit by UpB tailwips? Haha. I think you should be able to outrun them anyways if they use it on the ground.

Sprin gimp Ness.

ASC shield cancelling, SideB shieldcancelling and other feints are particularly useful in this matchup imo. I dunno why, lol, but yea.

Umm, is uair is a pain.

Can't think of much right now.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

It's easily worth running out and hitting that pkthunder yourself. Just incase you suck with spring placement.
Also as SonicX580 is offline anyone wanna go make a thread in the ness boards?

ROOOOY! · Oct 31, 2008

I'll go do it.

Anyway, as for Ness, I don't find him that hard.

Sonic is one of the few characters that when Ness uses his Yoyo doesn't get hit twice for some reason.

But anyway, lets not dance around the issue of gimping Ness. It's far too easy to do for obvious reasons. Stick with your ground game here, you outrange Ness on the ground. If he fairs though...o_0.

I'll write more once I've appealed to some Ness'.

Napilopez · Oct 31, 2008

I'd just like to point out that Im not saying gimping ness is necesarily that easy... Magnet stalls are annoying XD. But yea, if he's forced to use PK Thunder, make sure you try to gimp it...

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

I cant express enough the useful of the running --> spotdodge against a f-air happy Ness. But yer go make the thread so we can discuss it all yay.

ROOOOY! · Oct 31, 2008

Thread made, I might not stick round much to debate tonight, I'm tired.

PKNintendo · Oct 31, 2008

Sonic has a chaingrab on Ness. But you can Super Gbab break it to deal minimal damage. In fact. Sonic's THROW will deal more damage.

Roy is partially right. Ness Downsmash misses sonic, but his Upsmash still hits twice. Fair outprioritizes ALOT of sonic's moves. And Ness CAN grab Sonic out of his Spin dash for a backthrow.

Don't know about the numbers, but it's pretty even.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Greenstreet said:
It's easily worth running out and hitting that pkthunder yourself. Just incase you suck with spring placement.
Also as SonicX580 is offline anyone wanna go make a thread in the ness boards?

Hey I'am online now did somebody already told the Ness's about our disscusion also I have experience fighting Ness he is my rival it's a real person not a cpu I'll post about my expericence in a few minutes.
_____________________________________________________________________
I'am going to be a smash aprentice next post I'am going to make my next post good.

Napilopez · Oct 31, 2008

PKNintendo said:
Sonic has a chaingrab on Ness. But you can Super Gbab break it to deal minimal damage. In fact. Sonic's THROW will deal more damage.

Roy is partially right. Ness Downsmash misses sonic, but his Upsmash still hits twice. Fair outprioritizes ALOT of sonic's moves. And Ness CAN grab Sonic out of his Spin dash for a backthrow.

Don't know about the numbers, but it's pretty even.

Omg omg omg.

Can I just say how much I despise Ness's back throw?

Ok.

I Despise Ness' bthrow. ALOT.

Just because its so easy to land...

And yea, just about any char can grab Sonic out of an SDR(Spin Dash Roll) with good enough timing, but don't forger we have all these fancy feints and whatnot.

Weaved fairs and bairs are much too annoying. Like, very. Running past ness might actually be recommended. use SideB shield cancels. Like most chars, Ness has better aerial mobility. Sonic outtranges Ness on just about everything in the air, but this doesn't mean as much When ness has such better mobility and his aerials come out quicker. Although spiking isn't an issue for Sonic, I know ness' dair is extremely powerful even at low percentages, so I don't know how well Sonic can recover from it. Seriously, do NOT get in the water if you are playing on pirate ship or Delfino. Ness like, owns pirate ship, or so I hear.

Even sounds right. For me this matchup is a bit tough personally, Probably because I tend to have trouble with smasller targets with good aerial acceleration, but I think the community consensus would be about even.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Hey I'am back also here is my expericence with my rival Ness he bascially tries rack up my damage with moves like PK thunder or PK fire, he also used PK flash when I'am recovering also he does that after getting me with stalling attacks Pk attacks, yo-yo and that's when he uses PK flash when the projectile game doesn't work for him he uses close combat that's pretty much all I know oh and before I forget when he uses PK flash if you get close to him attack quick or else or hit if can't hit him in time run well that's all I know from my expericence well I hope this post helps with Ness.

ROOOOY! · Oct 31, 2008

Even sounds about right to me.
Fair is a horrible aerial. You can't really attack it, you've only got a few choices. One is running away, which isn't very manly, the second is shieldgrabbing, which works fairly well, even though it eats your shield a bit, and third is using the invincibility frames on spindash, which is the option I seem to abuse most often.

Ness' PK Fire isn't really that much of a problem to Sonic. He's got too many ways to reach Ness before he can safetly do it; spinshot, just running, either's good.

Commonly Used Moves : (I play a little Ness so here goes)

Uncharged PK Flash for edgeguarding. It can force mistakes just down to the fear factor of it, or it can just damage the opponent, it doesn't really gimp.

Fair, which is basically Ness' only approach. It's good though, big range, hurts shields, hard to counter.

Nair, very fast, high priority aerial. A good GTFO move in the air, with high knockback.

PK Fire, used for spacing mostly, but also as a general damage racker, it can be followed up out of if opponent doesn't DI out of it, and can hold people in position for KO's.

Fsmash. Ness' best killer. A little on the slow side, but pretty strong, especially when sweetspotted.

Utilt, for juggling at low percentages.

Bthrow as a broken piece of **** of a kill move, lol.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Hey Rooooy did you tell the Ness's to come over yet? If not I'll do that.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

Cool. Yeah Pk Fire isnt too much of a theat. Ness's is shocking in the air, aim has to be dead on and Sonic moves to fast to be left in its path anyway.

@ SonicX: Yeah he did.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Greenstreet said:
It's easily worth running out and hitting that pkthunder yourself. Just incase you suck with spring placement.
Also as SonicX580 is offline anyone wanna go make a thread in the ness boards?

Greenstreet said:
Cool. Yeah Pk Fire isnt too much of a theat. Ness's is shocking in the air, aim has to be dead on and Sonic moves to fast to be left in its path anyway.

@ SonicX: Yeah he did.

Oh okay but I'am going to be here about the debate is that okay?

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

I'm surprised nobody mentioned how beast of a move Ness's bair is. It's so easy to sweetspot and deals good damage and knockback. Fair is a great approach but bair will be mixed in there. PK Thunder will usually be used just to punish you for being too far away, or will be used to rack up damage with PKT2 (just incase you don't know, thats the damage dealt by the tail of PKT) I mained Ness forever untill Sonic, but ROOOOY! pretty much hit everything on the nail.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Camalange said:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned how beast of a move Ness's bair is. It's so easy to sweetspot and deals good damage and knockback. Fair is a great approach but bair will be mixed in there. PK Thunder will usually be used just to punish you for being too far away, or will be used to rack up damage with PKT2 (just incase you don't know, thats the damage dealt by the tail of PKT) I mained Ness forever untill Sonic, but ROOOOY! pretty much hit everything on the nail.

You can dodge the bair easliy just sheild, sheild dash when he starts bair by suprise , or run away from it.

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

SonicX580 said:
You can dodge the bair easliy just sheild, sheild dash when he starts bair by suprise , or run away from it.

You could say that about any move now could you?

Bair actually has some starting lag and odd timing so a good bair could catch you offguard. Not only that his jumps are so bizzare that all of his aerials just flow out so magnificently.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

SonicX...if you are recovering you have no shield or dash or running..
Thats where the Bair becomes annoying. And realisticly you cant not get hit everytime.

GAH!

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Camalange said:
You could say that about any move now could you?

Bair actually has some starting lag and odd timing so a good bair could catch you offguard. Not only that his jumps are so bizzare that all of his aerials just flow out so magnificently.

Well yeah pretty much but you probably counter Ness's attacks with a stronger one it worked for me when I faced my rival and Greeenstreet why not use the air dodge then use HA to recover and counter.

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

greenstreet said:
sonicx...if You Are Recovering You Have No Shield Or Dash Or Running..
Thats Where The Bair Becomes Annoying. And Realisticly You Cant Not Get Hit Everytime.

Gah!

Brilliant!

Bonus info, Ness's DThrow is great for racking up damage and can usually be followed up with either fair or uair

edit@X580-I'm starting to think this rival doesn't exists...

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Camalange said:
Brilliant!

Also, Ness's DThrow is great for racking up damage and can usually be followed up with either fair or uair

edit@X580-I'm starting to think this rival doesn't exists...

Actually he used to go to my middle school and he does exist I don't lie about something this serious (I kinda miss my rival) and Greenstreet you can air dodge and then use HA to counter.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

SonicX580 said:
Well yeah pretty much but you probably counter Ness's attacks with a stronger one it worked for me when I faced my rival and Greeenstreet why not use the air dodge then use HA to recover and counter.

I kinda saw this argument coming.

Counter Attack: Sonic has hella-bad priority on most his moves. You may be able to space a B-air yourself, the range is about the same, but recovering backwards? When are you in that situation? Any other aerial (fair-uair-dair? lol) is pretty much beat out. Nair hasnt got the range or priotity either.

Air-dodge: Yeah this'll work fine as long as you are certain the hit is coming and he doesn't fake, but as I've stated, you aren't realistically going to dodge perfect everytime. Ness's can change their timing or wait til you try and be offensive and then punish you in the lag. Or just let you dodge past them and get you with a Fair? I'm not sure how Ness tactics go but there is often more than one option.

Also is Ness one of the characters that makes HA go nuts and miss all the time?

Even if he isn't, you don't want to be dealing with the consequences of Ness spotdodging your HA, causing it to miss completely (no target)... and leaving you under Ness (spike).

There are options to deal with it, you just need to be careful. I'd suggest timing a SDH (spin dash hop) over it, not only will the invincibility frames possibly get you out of a tough spot but it'll also get out out of range fairly quick (assuming you within reach of the stage lol).

_clinton · Oct 31, 2008

I play as Ness and dabble in the dark arts of Sonic...I'm ok with calling this match up even for the most part...canon wise it is a different story (Ness>Sonic ^_^) but for SSBB...even for the most part...anyway..

Would any of you 15 year old 3'3, 77 lbs anamorphic blue hedgehogs like a battle with the 13 year old nerdy psychic kid who looks like he is only 5 and has bed wetting issues?

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

_clinton said:
IWould any of you 15 year old 3'3, 77 lbs anamorphic blue hedgehogs like a battle with the 13 year old nerdy psychic kid who looks like he is only 5 and has bed wetting issues?

That was a great statement.

I'd accept this challenge but I won't have my WiFi up till Monday so I doubt you'll want to wait. I'm sure someone else won't mind.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

_clinton said:
I play as Ness and dabble in the dark arts of Sonic...I'm ok with calling this match up even for the most part...canon wise it is a different story (Ness>Sonic ^_^) but for SSBB...even for the most part...anyway..

Would any of you 15 year old 3'3, 77 lbs anamorphic blue hedgehogs like a battle with the 13 year old nerdy psychic kid who looks like he is only 5 and has bed wetting issues?

Can I battle you in two weeks I'am getting WI-FI then.

ROOOOY! · Oct 31, 2008

Bairs a good move, yeah. I just didn't put it under commonly used moves.
Because it's not commonly used, as you said, it's used pretty sparingly.
That, and there's enough moves there as it is. I didn't want to write down like every move Ness has lol.

Also, that chart on OP needs a Zelda/Sheik bit added to it.

Also, I'd play, but I'm English so it'd be lagtastic.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

On my OP? as in the chart I fill the colours in on?

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Can we get back on the topic?

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

ROOOOY! said:
Bairs a good move, yeah. I just didn't put it under commonly used moves.
Because it's not commonly used, as you said, it's used pretty sparingly.
That, and there's enough moves there as it is. I didn't want to write down like every move Ness has lol.

Ah, of course! How silly of me! I just had to mention it though cuz it's just that good.

Also, that chart on OP needs a Zelda/Sheik bit added to it.

You mean like Zelda/Shiek combo deal?

SonicX580 said:
Can we get back on the topic?

??
STFU
We ARE on topic.

Greenstreet · Oct 31, 2008

SonicX580 said:
Can we get back on the topic?

My thread, I'll say what the topic is.

SonicX580 · Oct 31, 2008

Yeah Camalange I was talking about Zelda/Shiek.
_____________________________
It was a suggestion not a command.

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

SonicX580 said:
Yeah Camalange I was talking about Zelda/Shiek.

Yeah, it's a MATCHUP DISCUSSION THREAD. If the THREAD needs to be updated on a missing MATCHUP then it will be DISCUSSED. So yeah, I'd say we're right on track.

And what Greenstreet said, lol [/argument]

Chis · Oct 31, 2008

_clinton said:
I play as Ness and dabble in the dark arts of Sonic...I'm ok with calling this match up even for the most part...canon wise it is a different story (Ness>Sonic ^_^)

.....

Erm....

Camalange · Oct 31, 2008

Chis said:
.....

Erm....

O yah forgot about that.

Explain plz, Clinton?

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