Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Jim Morrison]

choosed

I am 100% sure you have 100% more expierence than me fighting Ness, so yea. We need as much input to make it an accurate summary.

 

[SonicX580]

Sure I do my best I'll post my experience on Ness in a few minutes.

 

[Tenki]

Chis, I'd settle with 40:60.

And yea SonicX, it not much of intercepted. If your hit, PKT2 just continues. Rather use your PEEKAY spring on his PEEKAY thunder. I don't know what moves clank with PKT2 yet. We'll have to find out.

I'd say moar 70:30 ;/

if PKT2 hits something, it slows down.

However, good Ness mains tend to be smart about their DI so they avoid having to PKT2 as much as possible.

Yup and I can help with this discussion because my rival is a mainer of Ness and I have some knowlegde from brawling him but bad news he moved out in a week after I joined Smash Boards but I still remember how he played it was back then when I was confused on which character I should main that was when during my losing streak or "Steak" but when I choosed Sonic I started a winning steak so can I help?

You don't ask to help, you just do.

But be forewarned, we'll shun you if you bring up some tactic that only works on nooby/careless players /computers.

 

[SonicX580]

Yeah I know Tenki and believe this Ness rival is a real person not a cpu anyways: bascially my rival tried to use his Pk projectiles at me then tried to follow up with a hard attack he would use his PK fire to rack up damage and use his F-smash it worked for the first time but then I dodged it.
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I still got more info to post I will post it in a few minutes.

 

[Tenki]

PK fire is so easy to avoid `.`;

Did he use PK thunder tailwhips to counter aerial approaches? Did he use PKT1 (projectile pk thunder) tailwhip > PKT2 combos? Did he uses Yoyos to stop your approaches? F-airs to take advantage of Ness's aerial priority, N-air's speed and priority to stop your attacks? Was he good about DI and floating to the stage as much as possible without having to waste double jumps or having to use PK thunder to recover?

In the same way I don't want people basing their matchup contributions off of crappy Sonic players, I don't want people bringing up crappy ______ players either.

 

[SonicX580]

PK fire is so easy to avoid `.`;

Did he use PK thunder tailwhips to counter aerial approaches? Did he use PKT1 (projectile pk thunder) tailwhip > PKT2 combos? Did he uses Yoyos to stop your approaches? F-airs to take advantage of Ness's aerial priority, N-air's speed and priority to stop your attacks? Was he good about DI and floating to the stage as much as possible without having to waste double jumps or having to use PK thunder to recover?

In the same way I don't want people basing their matchup contributions off of crappy Sonic players, I don't want people bringing up crappy ______ players either.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up and also when projectiles don't work he relys on close combat to get the job done which works like 20% of the time and also I use my speed to dodge his pk fire, thunder, and his flash attacks also I grab Ness during his Pk flash.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ness uses PK flash while your on ground? What Ness have you been playing.

 

[SonicX580]

Ness uses PK flash while your on ground? What Ness have you been playing.

No he uses it when I'am recovering or after he keeps me busy with his attacks.
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He was the best brawler in my old middle school we left our score a tie do to him moving.

 

[Chis]

I'm going to do something soon...

:something:

 

[SonicX580]

I'm going to do something soon...

:something:

Is it going to help with the disscussion on Ness?

 

[Chis]

No. Not because of this thread.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Whatever you do, DO NOT TALK ABOUT PK THUNDER IN FRONT OF NESS MAINERS.

They WILL go on and on about how good PK Thunder is.

 

[Tenki]

it IS good.

It's sooo funnn offline. Tailwhip PKT is amazing. I played a somewhat laggy game against Simna months ago, and it was amazing what he could pull off with INPUT lag.

Then I borrowed Ness and copied his cooltrix and lold at my brother.

 

[SonicX580]

No. Not because of this thread.

Oh okay and also back to Ness he used to also uses PK flash when I'am in the air but sometimes I took advantage of it pretty much when Ness uses PK flash you can hit Ness any way you want but be warned you only have a few seconds or so if you don't get the hit get out of the way before you get hit.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Oh okay and also back to Ness he used to also uses PK flash when I'am in the air but sometimes I took advantage of it pretty much when Ness uses PK flash you can hit Ness any way you want but be warned you only have a few seconds or so if you don't get the hit get out of the way before you get hit.

How long have you been playing Smash?

 

[SonicX580]

How long have you been playing Smash?

If you talking about the series since the first smash game created if you're talking about Brawl I been playing it since the midnight release.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

If you talking about the series since the nintendo 64 if you're talking about Brawl I been playing it since the midnight release.

And how many times have you landed Ness' big PK explosion attack?

 

[cutter]

What do you guys think on matchup numbers for G&W/Sonic?

7:3 in favor of G&W IMO. I don't see it being either 6:4 or 8:2, so yeah.

As for Ness, don't be surprised if Simna bans one of you guys if you disagree with PKT. He actually did that in the Lucario boards. Good thing the admins reversed everything thanks to his mod abuse. LMFAO.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nah, 6:4 more. I am Sonic biased. You make it 7:3 on GaW boards.

 

[Tenki]

I'd go 7:3

How long have you been playing Smash?

If you talking about the series since the first smash game created if you're talking about Brawl I been playing it since the midnight release.

Take it to the Sonic Chat thread.

Stop spamming here until Greenstreet takes the page.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Ok, I have a question. there a few good G&Ws here, and I need some tips on handling G&W with Sonic and kirby. What can Sonic and kirby do to outsmart or outplay G&W guys?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh. Something I should mention. I don't know if it was said or not but GaW has this weird property on his UpB. One time I daired and he Up b'ed INTO it and the trampoline he made shot me sideways. It was **** near a spike.

 

[cutter]

Oh. Something I should mention. I don't know if it was said or not but GaW has this weird property on his UpB. One time I daired and he Up b'ed INTO it and the trampoline he made shot me sideways. It was **** near a spike.

Yeah; the initial startup frames of G&W's Up B is a wind-like hitbox. Sometimes it functions like a vortex and you get pulled into the attack.

 

[Chis]

So do we consider G&W a hard counter to Sonic like Meta, Peach and Wario or just a tough match up?

 

[cutter]

I like to define 7:3 has a counter.

6:4 means an advantage, but the inferior side can definately win.

8:2 and above = hopeless for the inferior side (usually reserved for characters that get victimized by DDD's infinite or something like that)

 

[Chis]

I would define a hard counter 3:7 or 35:65 :/

 

[aeghrur]

Well, then it's a definitely a counter.
I doubt it'd be 60:40 because that seems too little, 65:35 seems more appropriate, but 70:30 seems best to me. =/
Just a question, does Ness's Down-B suck in Sonic's spring?

 

[Chis]

I don't think it would as it's not a normal projectile. Unless G&W can bucket it?

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[Jim Morrison]

Lol is a spring made out of energy?

 

[SonicX580]

I don't think it would as it's not a normal projectile. Unless G&W can bucket it?

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I don't think that's possible with Sonic he doesn't have a projectile but I think the spring counts as a projectile.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can Sonic not do the same thing? And Sonic does have some effective ways to approach you know (none of them are unstoppable, but they require different counters for the most part so you'd have to predict which one he's using in order to counter it).

G&W's B-air > Shieldcamping.

Sonic only has hope for a grab if G&W is shieldcamping.

Grab? Sonic's grab game is actually good, and he may not have G&W's amazing juggling, but he is still pretty good at it (he's beating all of your aerials with uair afterall, and he's fast enough to grab you after a dair and throw you up again).

You're only going to beat G&W's aerials with U-air if he's really bad at spacing.

Up-Bing away with G&W is not as safe as you'd think (just like up Bing with Sonic is situational), since Sonic can actually juggle G&W too.

Y'know, you would be surprised how safe it is, since you need pretty good timing to effectively juggle G&W with anything due to his D-air having extremely good range and the ability to DI horizontally. Not to mention you're not actually going to hit him out of his Up-B.

Anyhow, as for matchup numbers, just to give some number references, I think Sonic does worse than Ganondorf in this matchup, and IMO, Ganondorf loses about 6/4 against G&W or at worst 7/3. Basically, I think the matchup number is somewhere greater than 6/4 G&W.

 

[aeghrur]

Lol is a spring made out of energy?

Well... scientifically, sort of considering energy cannot be destroyed and only have its form changed thus mass=energy as Einstein stated with his famous theorem of E=MC^2. This means that mass and energy can be switched so Sonic's spring can be called energy, just like very condensed and it's energy level is really (mass of spring)*3,000,000mps^2 giving it (mass of spring)*9,000,000,000,000 amounts of energy if converted into pure energy. So... yeah.

In smash, no.

 

[Chis]

You forgot to mention the elastic potential energy in a spring.

Anyways 65:35 to G&W overall, agreed?

 

[SonicX580]

You forgot to mention the elastic potential energy in a spring.

Anyways 65:35 to G&W overall, agreed?

With all of the info of G&W and Sonic I agree.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Fair enough, it's settled between 70:30 and 60:40. 65:35 is good. But it'd look sweet if there was a black spot under GaW too. Someone would look at Sonics matchups, and he's like wtf 18 red, 8 black, 10 gray and 2 blue? **** Sonic im off to another board.

 

[Kinzer]

I agree with 65:35, it's not a hard counter for Sonic, but it's not easily winnable either... So is Mr. G&W going to be soemthing like Red?

Also no Mr. G&W wants to have any Brawls excluding A2, and I don't want to force him into the friendly if he doesn't like this matchup, I've already stated earlier why it's not necessary for him to Brawl me if he didn't want to.

Finally is it possible to save the Ness discussion for when Greens posts it?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yes it is very possible.

 

[Napilopez]

1) G&W's B-air > Shieldcamping.

2) Sonic only has hope for a grab if G&W is shieldcamping.

3) You're only going to beat G&W's aerials with U-air if he's really bad at spacing.

Y'know, you would be surprised how safe it is, since you need pretty good timing to effectively juggle G&W with anything due to his D-air having extremely good range and the ability to DI horizontally. Not to mention you're not actually going to hit him out of his Up-B.

Anyhow, as for matchup numbers, just to give some number references, I think Sonic does worse than Ganondorf in this matchup, and IMO, Ganondorf loses about 6/4 against G&W or at worst 7/3. Basically, I think the matchup number is somewhere greater than 6/4 G&W.

1)Lulz true

2) Well Sonic can shieldpoke with a few of his moves, ftilt, fair, and usmash namely, and they all work pretty effectily. Sonics shield pressure game is decent too, since ASC combos kill shields pretty well. As for the grab thing, that is Sonics best option, but you make it sound like its that hard; don't forget you're facing the quickest character in the game. Still G&W has the advantage in Shieldcamping because of his OoS options.

3) Or if the sonic is really good at spacing. Obviously G&W has the better overall aerials, but being above Sonic is the worst place you can be in the air relative to Sonic, since again, uair is too good. The same could be argued about G&W however.


65:35 is fine. I wouldn't call him a hard counter though. Matchup numbers are what the are, but I don't think this matchup is that close to unwinnable in real life play. I personally wouldn't call a counter simply by matchup number unless the numbers are like 80:20 and above. But the clear advantage for G&W definately?

 

[Kinzer]

Agreed.

14th page post, one more and then we should wait until Greens can get Ness up.

 

[Greenstreet]

Oi. Someone has to let me know before we move on... so I can decide whether the posts I've been reading can be turned into intelligible speech.
Just so you know for the future.