Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

Greenstreet · Nov 16, 2008

Or...I will end..................you.....................................
Good carry on. This one will only be around for 2 days tops ok?

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

Okay.

aeghrur said:
Kinzer, don't... say... that... >_<

Why?

infzy said:
lolol

It's not a blind spot. Because against good ICs, only one of them will be blizzarding. The other will be preparing a smash, Utilt, or whatever the heck it wants. Campy ICs are hard to approach.

Oh...that could be one reason...though I have yet to fight an ICs who can desync and punish me for that kind of behavior. Even then I was just using HA as an example, if you want you could just Dair or Spinshot to a Boxobair.

I still stand by my opinion for 60/40 advantage Sonic.

Sonic rules the air here and is decent on the ground. Have you tried to grab an evasive Sonic? It's d*** hard.

I would be more specific, but I'm going to let Infzy try and disprove me otherwise...also I have no points to work on, I still think ICs is one of my easier matchups though...

Also if we are on ICs, you want to change the title?

Greenstreet · Nov 16, 2008

ergh i was forget 1 thing lol thanks kinz. where is this guide of urs btw?

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205101

Also can you give portals to the character discussion pages? You're coming up short on R.O.B.

Greenstreet · Nov 16, 2008

true. my bad.

infomon · Nov 16, 2008

Kinzer, no offense but if you haven't fought ICs who know how to space and desync their blizzards well, that's about as problematic as a Sonic who just SDRs at you from the other end of the stage, lol.... so prolly isn't much use in a matchup discussion. That being said, I'm not sure how this matchup goes either really, I haven't fought a good Sonic as ICs or good ICs as Sonic lol. But ICs are such an amazing character, I doubt Sonic could really have the advantage here... 50:50 at very best... just personal opinion

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

...So hows your IC Game?

Edit: crap he logged off! Really, either I haven't fought any good ICs...or I am just that good.

infomon · Nov 16, 2008

... u talkin' to me?

I won't play WiFi. It's just that sadface. Especially with ICs -- there go all the chaingrabs and timing for desyncs. IMO the ICs are the most technical character, lulz.

And my ICs aren't that great anymore, I need to play with them more, but I really wanna be all-out Sonic lolol.

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

Wah, Wi-Fi sucks, buti s my only means of getting matches, what with my parents and s***...

I still think ICs are easy though...

/bait

YamiJorie · Nov 16, 2008

My opinion:

Advantages against Ice Climbers:
- Sonic is great at getting them separated
- Sonic dominates them in the air
- Sonic can run away easily from their grabs

Disadvantages against Ice Climbers
- Blizzard stops Sonic out cold (no pun intended)
- If the IC grab Sonic, he's pretty much doomed because of their chaingrabs
- They can rejoin quickly with their UpB and SideB

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

Well now I finally have something to argue.

CGs aren't so reliable on Sonic (at least not the "switchbacks"), if they leave even a little bit of room for time, Sonic can just Spring out of them. Not only that, but the D-Throw to spike doesn't work on Sonic because of his Spring again (he can just use the instant-jump and if the ICs edgehog, he can footstool/attack them out of their invincibility frames).

Blizzard only stops Sonic's DIRECT approaches, what's stopping him from just taking it to the skies and attacking from above? (sorry Infzy, until I either see a desynced Blizzard/USmash/UTilt/Uair thingy in a video or done to me in person, I will think that all ICs are either using both to frontal blizzard, or whatever)

Jim Morrison · Nov 16, 2008

Kinzer... Wanna play again

I'm bored.

Kinzer · Nov 16, 2008

Nah man, It's five in the morning, I gotta get some sleep unfortunately. I'm only going to go look around in some other threads, post if necessary, and hit the hey.

Jim Morrison · Nov 16, 2008

Rofl why dont you sleep at 5 in the morning...

aeghrur · Nov 16, 2008

When ICs punish you, it's gonna hurt like hell. I'm serious, like, space well, or your gonna get grabbed. If you get grabbed, you lose a stock.

Of course, CG can't be that much of a problem if you simply separate them. Sonic is good at this considering it is like a 2-1. However, ICs take away a major part of Sonic's games, grabs. Yes, it'll be hard using sonic's grabs here when they're together. You grab, he freaking smashes you. >_< So yeah, no grabs=bad for sonic.

That's why ICs aren't easy. :O

ShadowLink84 · Nov 16, 2008

The IC's are among the scarier opponents for Snoic to space.
Their grab game is not as much of an issue especially for Sonic who excels at maintaining spacing from the opponent. So they should rarely grab you (though if they do it can easily be a stock).

A main issue with the IC's is that they are extremely good at playing defensively.
De-synched blizzards do an excellent job at fending off opponents and make it difficult for you to get to their blind spot.

Their ice shot is pretty good too (though remember you can just jab them away) but their purpose is to bait the opponent and pressure them into close range combat where they will beat out most opponents.

Their weaknesses are very exploitable by Sonic, primarily the ability to separate Nana/Popo. Multihit moves work very well against the IC's in this respect, so using the Usmash, tilts, Fair and then using your Bairs to continously keep them away.

As Infzy said, they aren't helpless, they can teleport the IC back to them but this only occurs for a certain range (with the ^B havig the most range an d being the most risky).
Off stag they have a tough time with opponents because their recovery has so many dangers.

if Sonic has an advantage, I definitely don't see one, however, I don't see any from the IC's either.

if you are going for grabs, do so when they are separated or one of them is dead.
you can pull of an Fthrow while one is around, but its generally not worth it.

ROOOOY! · Nov 16, 2008

Ehh, on paper, 55:45/60:40 Sonic's favour.
I haven't read any previous discussion, but the only issue that's going to come our way is approaching and spacing. Blizzard is hard to deal with, and Ice Blocks aren't that bad a problem to be honest. It's pretty hard to start gaining any momentum in the game.

Fortunately, once you've got momentum, IC's don't have that many GTFO options, so you can maintain it pretty well. Also, basically all the other weaknesses that they have play into Sonic's hands. It's difficult to get grabbed, easy to seperate, easy to gimp.

I imagine everything encompassing those points has already been talked about.

thecatinthehat · Nov 16, 2008

- ASC alot.

- Spinshot > is your friend here.

- IC mains can grab out of anything. They will be looking to grab you out of the SDR/Dash attack. Fake them out. SDSC out of their range. DO NOT force an approach.

Machiavelli.CF · Nov 17, 2008

Ive always found that spin dash/charge is a move i use alot, it breaks the ice climbers away from eachother like its not problem at all, then you just kill one of them(usually nana, cuz she cant defend herself for ****) then the other is on their own for the rest of the stock. : P

Tenki · Nov 17, 2008

Mch12 said:
Ive always found that spin dash/charge is a move i use alot, it breaks the ice climbers away from eachother like its not problem at all, then you just kill one of them(usually nana, cuz she cant defend herself for ****) then the other is on their own for the rest of the stock. : P

Oh yeah, it's such a good move that's not easy to break with IC's blizzard, ice blocks, or aerials at all.

i leik sonic mainz betR

ROOOOY! · Nov 17, 2008

Tenki's right, spindash/charge is the dumbest move you can use in this match.
SH fair is ****, however.

Jim Morrison · Nov 17, 2008

I recommend Brinstar against them, only for the sake of not going to grab Sonic, and the lava which they will not escape easily.

Tenki · Nov 17, 2008

Yoshi's Island might be good too. Not just for chaingrabs, but because the edges make iSDR possible.

and you should know, that iSDR is... really useful for going through things as long as you don't clang with them. coffblizzardcoff

Jim Morrison · Nov 17, 2008

What's iSDR? Inffite Spin Dash Roll?

ShadowLink84 · Nov 17, 2008

Invincible Spindash roll

thecatinthehat · Nov 17, 2008

lol.

Infinite SDR?

I can't even comprehend that.

Boxob · Nov 17, 2008

Infant ****?

What the ****?

Jim Morrison · Nov 17, 2008

Interogation skills? huh?

Boxob · Nov 17, 2008

Lol.

Nicole · Nov 17, 2008

hmm, for counterpicking a stage against ICs, i would probably go with green greens. there are enough platforms that you can avoid ice shot/blizzard more easily, and since you're not going to be spindashing much anyway, the smallish size doesn't matter. additionally, on brinstar, the lava might save a lone ice climber, or on yoshi's, that blue guy might save a lone ice climber. green greens assures the ICs death. stagespiking/edgeguarding seems easier on this level too. plus, green greens is one of sonic's best.

Boxob · Nov 17, 2008

Ironboots33 said:
hmm, for counterpicking a stage against ICs, i would probably go with green greens.best.

You better ****ing go GREEN GREENS.

da K.I.D. · Nov 17, 2008

Ironboots33 said:
hmm, for counterpicking a stage against ICs, i would probably go with green greens. there are enough platforms that you can avoid ice shot/blizzard more easily, and since you're not going to be spindashing much anyway, the smallish size doesn't matter. additionally, on brinstar, the lava might save a lone ice climber, or on yoshi's, that blue guy might save a lone ice climber. green greens assures the ICs death. stagespiking/edgeguarding seems easier on this level too. plus, green greens is one of sonic's best.

WTH?!?!
who the eff are you?
you suck,
you dont matter...

that is so wrong in so many ways i cant even begin.
you fail
leave and never come back

lol just kidding, i had to do it... sorry it was too good of an oppurtunity

thecatinthehat · Nov 17, 2008

da K.I.D. said:
WTH?!?!
who the eff are you?
you suck,
you dont matter...

that is so wrong in so many ways i cant even begin.
you fail
leave and never come back

lol just kidding, i had to do it... sorry it was too good of an oppurtunity

I was about to say that you got really boring after the ban, KID.

But after this, <3 again.

da K.I.D. · Nov 17, 2008

you must have not seen me rip napi/puffy a new hole to crap out of...

freaking hell... which thread is it?
idk. just looks for the thread where i start talking about falco.

EDIT check MCs thread

Jim Morrison · Nov 17, 2008

I think we should all talk german for a day on Sonic boards.

da K.I.D. · Nov 17, 2008

what is shut the hell up in german?
lolololololol

Kinzer · Nov 17, 2008

I can't do that...anyway if you want another anti-IC stage, go with Rainbow Cruise.

So many platforms/small ship/bad recovery/little opprtunity to CG is teh suk for those guys.

Any OBJECTIONS!?

Jim Morrison · Nov 17, 2008

da K.I.D. said:
what is shut the hell up in german?
lolololololol

Halt den Verdammte Münde

ShadowLink84 · Nov 17, 2008

Why green greens?
Considering the IC's excel at close range and have a projectile, it seems counter intuitive to go there. For one you don't have as much room to work with and they could remain under the platforms and use blizzard to protext themselves on both sides.

it also means their small grab range doesn't mean as much since if you jump into the air, you can't place ourself in a situation to really counter attack.
So I hae to disagree with that place.
Least for them.
I would have to say RC and Yoshi's Island.
FD is also good because well, its FD. Lots of room plus no platforms really helps.

aeghrur · Nov 17, 2008

Whoops, so I was wrong, hehehe.

Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

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