Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

Don't forget to link all the past match up threads A1loin, it's important to compare the current match up to the past. Also, I hope you don't give up like the last two people that did match up threads, lol.

Straked said:
I'm like, the only Kirby that isn't a stoner.

Although I do like that idea.

If you don't count Stoning someone when their coming back from under the stage, then your not the only one that don't use Stone. I only Stone on some stage's that have good slants or when someone is coming back.

Next match up we should start on Diddy Kong, I find Diddy Kong not easy when playing Kirby now, or was it because I played him on Final Destination? I heard that was a nightmare to take Diddy Kong but I risked it.

A1lion835 · Jun 8, 2009

What would you guys say the rating is? Some people are saying 55-45 sonic, some say 55-45 kirby...should we put it at 50-50?

Edit: Lovely, I'll link to the past matchup threads. However, I wanted to discuss m2k next because of the confusion (some say it's about even, some say 65-35 him).

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

the people who are saying its 55:45 Kirby aren't really giving details or well presented facts

we even got sonic mains to give us confirmation that its 55:45 sonic

and sure lets start MK i personally think its a solid 60:40 MK now instead of 55:45MK and i can support that but lets wait ^_^

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

A1lion835 said:
Lovely, I'll link to the past matchup threads. However, I wanted to discuss m2k next because of the confusion (some say it's about even, some say 65-35 him).

65-35 Meta Knight is all error, lol. I think we should start on Meta Knight after looking at that. I would go as low as 60-40 Meta Knight and no higher than 45-55 Meta Knight. As for the Sonic match up... eh I'll call it even for now and start again on it later since I don't see much high level Kirby mains debate because of the lack of Sonic gameplay or many high level Sonic main debate for the same reason.

Laijin · Jun 8, 2009

I'd like to say this. Can someone please give me a good explanation for this:
Kirby vs Ice Climbers.
Simply the dumbest match up I have ever played in brawl. I was getting back into brawl after a near year hiatus of not being into it, so I went to a tournament today to see how I would do. I advanced pretty well since I'm a pretty competent player and I know my match ups pretty well. So I'm doing alright and I make it all the way to semi finals where I have to face some Ice Climbers player.
(Appearently he is the second best ICs player in the state. o_0)
So I'm not really familiar with the match up, so as I'm playing it I quickly realize a few things:
1. 1 grab == 1 stock from me.
2. Kirby has only 1 option. ONLY ONE OPTION. Literally. The only thing that was safest and worked was wall of pain back air. REALLY? Thats Kirby's only option in the entire match up for approaching, attacking, and killing too. If you do anything else you run a high risk of getting grabbed and there goes your stock.
3. Because Kirby only has one option, my set took over 20 minutes to complete. The time almost ran out in every match. I've never in my life played a fighting game where 1 set took over 10 minutes. 20 minutes is an absurd amount of time. Seriously.

This match up alone has completely turned me off from brawl. How do you guys even have the patience to sit there and b-air the entire match because literally you have no other options or choice. I've never once played a fighting game(even the worst ones) where I only had one option. Don't usually good games allow you to have multiple options to try and trick the opponent and keep them guessing? Well..all that goes out the window when it comes to this match up.

Anyways I'm ranting a lot. I'm asking this: Is that really all Kirby can do in this match up? Everything else will get him grabbed and killed immediately and he has no hope of winning unless you b-airs all day long.

fromundaman · Jun 8, 2009

djbrowny said:
Oh em gee

well its good to see that this is true... but i never thought it would extend to high tier characters suddenly deciding a matchup goes from 60:40 their favour to a Sonic advantage >_< Sonic hasnt changed a single bit, just a number next to his name lol, I sure hope that didnt affect peoples decisions.

I totally dont agree with a Sonic advantage btw lol

To be fair, very few of us have good Sonic experience. Also, if you look at our last matchup thread, you'll notice it was all about what moves beat what, not what will actually happen in a match.

As for MK, I still say it's 45-55. We just have to play it defensively and carefully.

Lovely... why did you bring Diddy to arguably his best stage? WHY?

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

Laijin said:
I'd like to say this. Can someone please give me a good explanation for this:
Kirby vs Ice Climbers.

Kirby does bad against Ice Climbers my other main 60/40 Ice Climbers. Also I'll clam that Kirby is one of the easiest to chain grab in Brawl, I think the other match up threads explained the match up since this match up thread just started.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032

fromundaman said:
Lovely... why did you bring Diddy to arguably his best stage? WHY?

I risked it and I'm young of knowing what Diddy's best stages is. ;p

I got banana to death for two of my stocks and all I could do is watch. Sadly, I won because the person I was fighting fell for the Kirbycides three times in a row. I couldn't help but look at his face when I just beat him like that.

fromundaman · Jun 8, 2009

Haha, I got a Pika player like that yesterday. He fell for an inhale footstool, then a Kirbicide the next stock.

But yeah, for Diddy, don't bring him to FD or LM.

laijin, ICs suck. Hard. I suggest getting a secondary. Otherwise, try to seperate and kill Nana ASAP. She's stupid and will fall for inhale>Starshot under the stage, forcing Popo to go offstage if he wants to save her (I think, though I've seen them manage to call them back from the ledge once or twice, though most of the time she's out of range for that it seems.).

Also, counterpick a stage with hazards or slants against ICs.

Laijin · Jun 8, 2009

Yea. the only round I won was on delfino plaza. I'll pick up Snake I guess. :|

aeghrur · Jun 8, 2009

Dang, is it over?
Ahhhhhhhh, I wanted to speak on sonic v. Kirby, lol.
Personally, I don't think it's 55:45 sonic, that's like 10-20 points off.
It's probably 55:45 kirby.
Kirby seems to have better counterpick stages that can benefit him like maybe brinstar, halberd, or delfino?
Kirby also has better strings than sonic. While sonic can escape quickly, kirby can still rack up damage pretty quickly.
Also, kirby kills easier than sonic, especially on stages like BF or delfino where there's a high platform. Kirby's hammer also kills sonic quite early, and Kirby's f-smash has AMAZING range along with very good power. Sonic, meanwhile, has to rely on bair, f-smash, or d-smash. while bair and f-smash are disjointed, they also have some start-up lag, and cannot always reliably kill, especially with momentum canceling.
Speaking of which, I do believe sonic has a better momentum cancel than kirby, but both are good.

And while recovering to the stage, Kirby can WoP right? Well, that could help rack up damage sometimes against sonic, but there won't be any gimps. Both characters have really good recoveries, and if kirby recovers high, there's only so much sonic can do without putting himself at risk. =/

However, sonic does have the upper hand in mindgame potential to me.
For example, if neither side decides to approach, sonic has much more options to try and bait than kirby, with his spin cancels and dash dancing and stuff. Then, upon said approach, I find that sonic can punish a lot easier than kirby due to his speed, but kirby can often times punish harder as sonic's moves do tend to have a bit of lag if done incorrectly. Ex. SHDAIR!

Overall, pretty even, but 55:45-60:40 kirby. Somewhere in there. =/
Please correct me if I'm wrong on stuff, lol. It's better I look like a ******* that can learn than simply a *******.

Camalange · Jun 8, 2009

aeghrur said:
It's probably 55:45 kirby.
Kirby seems to have better counterpick stages that can benefit him like maybe brinstar, halberd, or delfino?
Kirby also has better strings than sonic. While sonic can escape quickly, kirby can still rack up damage pretty quickly.

Those are all also good Sonic cps, except for say Delfino (that's just personal prefernce) but Halberd increases the chances of Sonic getting vertical kills very greatly, along with kills in general.

Also, kirby kills easier than sonic, especially on stages like BF or delfino where there's a high platform.

I actually think that platforms make it easier for Sonic since he beats Kirby in the air, platforms would just help. Kirby is good because of his air game generally, and since Sonic beats him there, it gives Sonic that much of an advantage. I also said that Kirby does generally kill better than Kirby, and he's still a good damage racker, but it's going to be mad hard for Kirby to gain stage conrol...

Kirby's hammer also kills sonic quite early, and Kirby's f-smash has AMAZING range along with very good power. Sonic, meanwhile, has to rely on bair, f-smash, or d-smash. while bair and f-smash are disjointed, they also have some start-up lag, and cannot always reliably kill, especially with momentum canceling.
Speaking of which, I do believe sonic has a better momentum cancel than kirby, but both are good.

Sonic beats out Kirby with momentum canceling, but Sonic will have no problem racking up damage and saving the Fsmash/Dsmash, but yes. Kirby still has an easier time killing. Bair won't kill.

And while recovering to the stage, Kirby can WoP right? Well, that could help rack up damage sometimes against sonic, but there won't be any gimps.

Nah, just DI away from the bair to avoid followup...

Both characters have really good recoveries, and if kirby recovers high, there's only so much sonic can do without putting himself at risk. =/

Kirby's UpB is average, it makes it a little difficult to gimp, but not all intimidating.

However, sonic does have the upper hand in mindgame potential to me.
For example, if neither side decides to approach, sonic has much more options to try and bait than kirby, with his spin cancels and dash dancing and stuff. Then, upon said approach, I find that sonic can punish a lot easier than kirby due to his speed, but kirby can often times punish harder as sonic's moves do tend to have a bit of lag if done incorrectly. Ex. SHDAIR!

Agreed.

Overall, pretty even, but 55:45-60:40 kirby. Somewhere in there. =/

I'm still feelin' 55:45 Sonic, or 50:50.

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

thank you cam for explaining this i was about to go on a rant again hahaha
if you dont believe the 55:45 sonic ratio
heres some videos so you can see for yourself how much of a uphill battle it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid0FZYxwZ0 match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiO9H3AmYk match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KaEdRJm4A match 3

tell me what you would do differently

Triple R · Jun 8, 2009

Allied said:
thank you cam for explaining this i was about to go on a rant again hahaha
if you dont believe the 55:45 sonic ratio
heres some videos so you can see for yourself how much of a uphill battle it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid0FZYxwZ0 match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiO9H3AmYk match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KaEdRJm4A match 3

tell me what you would do differently

I thought you said yourself you weren't playing the best in these videos? maybe it was someone else. Does anyone know of any other videos with good sonics in them.

Chis · Jun 8, 2009

Can we both just say even? lol

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

Chis said:
Can we both just say even? lol

Well, I'll say even because there isn't enough Kirby mains that know the Sonic match up, only like two of them or maybe even one. I sure don't know because every Sonic I Brawled I picked Wario, or Samus, before I wasn't good enough with Kirby to play him in any tourney's.

RoflWafflez · Jun 8, 2009

Allied said:
thank you cam for explaining this i was about to go on a rant again hahaha
if you dont believe the 55:45 sonic ratio
heres some videos so you can see for yourself how much of a uphill battle it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid0FZYxwZ0 match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiO9H3AmYk match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KaEdRJm4A match 3

tell me what you would do differently

I just watched the 1st video, so...yea.

I dont know if this is known or not, but Sonic can be shield-grabbed out of his rolls. All the times he sat at one side of the stage and charged up his rolling ball attack or whatever it is, it was basically a free grab, especially when he actually lets it loose. You did a good job grabbing alot, but u coulda avoided most of those roll-ball combos by grabbing him out of it.

Also, u need to b-air camp ALOT more. B-air beats all/most of Sonic's moves, and will keep him at bay, and keep u in control of the match. B-air is ur friend.

And try to not stay hovering around the edge like u did on ur 2nd stock, sonics are fast and can get an easy stage-spike, just like what happened to u with ur 2nd death. Either grab the edge fast (AND DONT STAY THERE TOO LONG) or just stay really high and away from him.

|RK| · Jun 8, 2009

fromundaman said:
Haha, I got a Pika player like that yesterday. He fell for an inhale footstool, then a Kirbicide the next stock.

But yeah, for Diddy, don't bring him to FD or LM.

lol, Kirbycides work on Straked far too often. I normally lose, yes, but they work. Recently, I Kirycide less and less, since Straked hates 'em.

ROOOOY! · Jun 8, 2009

Just call Sonic v Kirby 50:50. No one can agree, and the 5 points either way are going to make very little difference as that's considered neutral anyway.

Case closed?

I'm also finding that SHDair as an approach comment and sigging it for great justice.

Camalange · Jun 8, 2009

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7555676&postcount=83

There's the post XD lmao

And I'm fine with 50:50 if people REALLY can't give Sonic the 5 point advantage

This matchup is not at all in anyway unwinnable for Kirby, but it definitley breaks them out of their comfort zones. I just believe Sonic has a slight edge due to his stage control.

Allied is a BEASTLY Kirby by the way. I was re-watching our matches and there were so many mindgames between us XD It was hawt. Allied, hope to see you again at RtVC for our rematch :D

fromundaman · Jun 8, 2009

Camalange, I agree with you, but I think more Kirby mains need to play good Sonics before that will be agreed on.
Might as well just call it 50-50.

|RK| · Jun 8, 2009

Then make the export thread, correct?

A1lion835 · Jun 8, 2009

fromundaman said:
Haha, I got a Pika player like that yesterday. He fell for an inhale footstool, then a Kirbicide the next stock.

I got something almost exactly the same as 1:41 in this vid in a ladder match vs a pika and won (I had 2 stocks, he had 1). Also, I have found what may be the funniest vid ever: kirby right back at ya intro. In German.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OwICnrVjOE&feature=related

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

even tho i completely disagree with the matchup being 50:50 i can deal with it

I just faced Kai And Ophelia both insanely skilled sonic mains today
(even tho ophelia really isnt XD LMAO)

anyway we did a mini tournament and i faced kai in the grand finals

First match i got 3 stocked
2nd match i 2 stocked him
and 3rd match it was so insanely close but he had more killing options thus he won
and 4th match it was just about the same

once again you really can't see this matchup being 55:45 SOnic unless you see it for yourself
i know i would of been like "well thats impossible" but i've faced like all the sonics on the east coast XD

so i guess i can stay with 50:50

A1lion835 · Jun 8, 2009

Alright, talk on Sonic is now closed. Feel free to give me more info on sonic via visitor message/pm and I ~~will readily take credit for it~~ will add it into my summary of the matchup. I'm thinking of doing mk next, but I bet a bunch of board will be asking the mks to discuss with them. What are everybody's thoughts?

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

lets talk about zelda so i can school all of you in that discussion ^_^!!!
<3!
i love debating

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

So far the match up that doesn't make since is the Zelda match up, Wario match up, some how Meta Knight match up since I just heard 35/65 Meta Knight on the Meta Knight boards and that's just, lol. That's all I can think of. I choose Meta Knight.

RoflWafflez · Jun 8, 2009

I vote for Meat Knight as well. Put that crap back to 40-60 pl0x or even 45-55.

Lovely · Jun 8, 2009

Wait, they have it as 45-55 Meta Knight, never mind, I change my vote. I'll vote Zelda as well.

A1lion835 · Jun 8, 2009

Hrm, so 3 for Zelda (including my vote), 1 for mk, 1 for yoshi/peach, . I'll have the Sonic matchup summary up some time this week (probably) and we'll start our next matchup tomorrow. Thx for the good discussion guys; if we can get 9 pages on every matchup, this'll be an awesome thread. <3

Edit:

fromundaman said:
Nah, it's a few Kirby mains who can't deal with MK who said that. MK's agreed on the 45-55 ratio before we did.

Then I take back about discussing mk. I'd like to have the discussion fine-tuned (duh, I want all matchup discussions like that), but that can wait if we're agreed on the same ratio.

Who are you voting for?

fromundaman · Jun 8, 2009

Nah, it's a few Kirby mains who can't deal with MK who said that. MK's agreed on the 45-55 ratio before we did.

Ladybug · Jun 8, 2009

I vote Yoshi or Peach. Yoshi cause I'm stuck playing Bwett and I'd like to beat him at least once or peach because that's a matchup I actually know pretty well.

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

near moar zelda votez <3

A1lion835 · Jun 8, 2009

We seem to be leaning towards Zelda, with 1 for mk, 1 for yoshi/peach and 3 for zelda (I voted for her).

Edit:

Lovely said:
Wait, they have it as 45-55 Meta Knight, never mind, I change my vote. I'll vote Zelda as well.

Allied said:
i count as two votes XD

*coughs repeatedly*

Allied · Jun 8, 2009

i count as two votes XD

Retroend · Jun 9, 2009

well all this sonic talk has me wondering since i face a couple of good sonics. but i got my own way to deal with them. anyway, i'd say meta knight should be next. the fact that someone stated that the matchup is 60-40 is ludicrous. ive been getting a lot of mk experience and i would like to discuss him. so for me, i vote for meta.

Lord Viper · Jun 9, 2009

☆ I think that was T!mmy that said that. Thought I don't know why he said that. I'll vote Meta Knight as well. ☆

Retroend · Jun 9, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
☆ I think that was T!mmy that said that. Thought I don't know why he said that. I'll vote Meta Knight as well. ☆

WHAT?! no way! he can't be serious! i know meta's broken and gay as hell, but that matchup is not 60-40. kirby has some things that help him hold his own against meta, but i'll wait until the next character is decided to discuss that paticular matter. still, its sounds ridiculous...

Lord Viper · Jun 9, 2009

retro gamer said:
WHAT?! no way! he can't be serious! i know meta's broken and gay as hell, but that matchup is not 60-40. kirby has some things that help him hold his own against meta, but i'll wait until the next character is decided to discuss that paticular matter. still, its sounds ridiculous...

☆ Sorces. =/ ☆

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7390492&postcount=519

Kewkky · Jun 9, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
☆ Sorces. =/ ☆

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7390492&postcount=519

See? That's why I suck at MU's. Some people say it's about character's movesets, others say it's about player skills, and a select few point out to the in-between. And everytime I type something, I'm wrong and get corrected in the sense that "You must be CRAZY! You obviously have no idea how this works, blah blah blah MU's aren't like that"

Retroend · Jun 9, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
☆ Sorces. =/ ☆

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7390492&postcount=519

then i'm more convinced to discuss meta knight. and i think maybe t!mmy may be givivng meta too much credit, but thats just my opinion. man, no wonder i hate this game...

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