-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!
- Thread starter Kewkky
- Start date
- Status
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ You didn't feel like quoting all my post peace by peace huh? Because of that, you make me feel sad. D= ☆
☆ If you read all what I said in this thread, "I don't have much info of Sonic yet, but I'll have some in a few days", only Sonic main I faced that was good offline was my friend GT, but he's not pro level so that doesn't count. It's not about facing the top level Sonic to deside the match up, it's the character's meta game and strategy that does. ☆
☆ **** N-Air because it's not one of Kirby's best moves, LMAO. Also, no D-Air to grab as well, shame on you. ☆
☆ Yes, I caught your error. No where in that sentence where I said Sonic is all about ground game, his ground game is very strong, stronger than his air game that's for sure. ☆
☆ You got me here. ☆
☆ You shouldn't be on the ground shielding then, Final Cutter has some good distance and the most underrated Kirby move ever, come on Kirby mains, it reaches nearly 2/4 of Final Destination. Since most Kirby mains use this move only to come back, the skills of this move is very little but who cares, I'll leave this to the Kirby meta game talk. Also, I'm experimenting and see if D-Air can stop all of Sonic Spin Dash attacks, or his Homing Attack, if this works, than Sonic's Spin Dash with Kirby will be less of a bother. But other than that, you got me... sort of. ☆
☆ Aww, your making my ego grow higher than it's own good, lol. Only online I've ever got grabbed from a fake Spin Dash, offline I've basically dodged it nearly all the time. ☆
☆ Well, you said it, not me. I didn't think you were a typical average Kirby main until you said it on this sentence. O_o ☆
☆ Also, yes, we do need to improve Kirby's meta game. ☆
☆ Your thinking too average, you got to think crazy with more mind games on top. You will never know until you tried it right. I mean, no Final Cuttle near the edge to ruin the end lag time, or get at a good distance with Sonic to stop his Spin Dash even when he stops or switch to another attack. But try it on friendlies to see if your comfortable with it. =P ☆
☆ Zero Suit Samus isn't a good partner for Kirby. Peach is way better if to be Kirby's partner in Melee and Brawl. Well, I say this because Zero Suit Samus isn't a good damage builder, also Lucas and Mr. Game & Watch is her best partners. ☆
☆ My thought's don't matter in this match up because I don't have a good answer on the Sonic match up, only results that I have from Brawling every Sonic main I Brawled till today. Since I'm in the MI, they use verity of characters that's not only Meta Knight. ☆
RoflWafflez
Smash Apprentice
Like i always say...n00b Sonics are jokes. Great Sonics are nightmares. Online Sonics are just a pain in our pink @sses overall.
Just play smart and don't commit to something too fast, cuz chances are, that opportunity will be gone in a second, considering Sonic's speed. Silly mistakes will make ur % go up unneccesarily, and can cost u the game. Pay attention.
Just play smart and don't commit to something too fast, cuz chances are, that opportunity will be gone in a second, considering Sonic's speed. Silly mistakes will make ur % go up unneccesarily, and can cost u the game. Pay attention.
Nihongo-ookami
Smash Journeyman
Heh, I used to main Sonic.
Sonic's approaches: Dash/grab, SHDair, Jump, Up-B, and the Various spin-attacks.
Kirby's approaches: RAR Bair, Up-B repeat(I don't like the word spam), Drill Kick to Grab, Hammer, Dash - Gonzo.
Most of Kirby's beat Sonic's.
How you open is pretty big...
Kirby's Bair, Fair, UTilt, and Gonzo are Sonic's biggest weaknesses here.
B-AIR: Comes out much faster than any of Sonic's attacks, and, can WoP if used correctly.
F-AIR: Multi-hit, with the last hit having KO potential.
UTilt:Good damage-racker, and at low %s, can be used repeatedly to rack up damage.
Gonzo:Sonic's a relatively light character, so Gono will only work for so long. However, I can easily get a Sonic to 30-40 percent with gonzo, if I do it right. DThrow to UTilt, to SHBair really helps.
Just don't let the Sonic player pressure you. The moment that you let yourself be pressured by his speed, BAM. You've lost. Sonic has a decent pressure game, so you might want to be on your toes.
Sonic's approaches: Dash/grab, SHDair, Jump, Up-B, and the Various spin-attacks.
Kirby's approaches: RAR Bair, Up-B repeat(I don't like the word spam), Drill Kick to Grab, Hammer, Dash - Gonzo.
Most of Kirby's beat Sonic's.
How you open is pretty big...
Kirby's Bair, Fair, UTilt, and Gonzo are Sonic's biggest weaknesses here.
B-AIR: Comes out much faster than any of Sonic's attacks, and, can WoP if used correctly.
F-AIR: Multi-hit, with the last hit having KO potential.
UTilt:Good damage-racker, and at low %s, can be used repeatedly to rack up damage.
Gonzo:Sonic's a relatively light character, so Gono will only work for so long. However, I can easily get a Sonic to 30-40 percent with gonzo, if I do it right. DThrow to UTilt, to SHBair really helps.
Just don't let the Sonic player pressure you. The moment that you let yourself be pressured by his speed, BAM. You've lost. Sonic has a decent pressure game, so you might want to be on your toes.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Just for you...
Yet you make some pretty harsh assumptions based off of what Allied said about the matchup, where he actually DOES have experience...
Neither of those are in that list because they don't stop Sonic's approach. He could spin under you and Uair right through our Dair. (And please watch those videos, he does do a lot of what you talk about in his matches. The reason he doesn't mention them in this discussion is because generally speaking, these things don't work on good Sonics.)
No, actually, it's not. Sonic's air game is what he will rely on the most, using his ground game mainly for cancels, spinshots which then propel you into the air for combos, or grabs, which themselves either lead to techchases or aerial combos. Sure, I'm oversimplifying it, but most often, a Sonic player won't use a large portion of his ground moves except for when trying to get a KO or to mindgame you into them.
Again, as true as that is, Sonic can punish this more easily than most, since he can just do that springshot jump thing (I forget all the names. I just know to do it I hit SideB then down on the Cstick as I release) to get behind you before you even land.
And ehhh... it is a good move, and has some interesting glitches we need to figure out then make use of.
Online is very different. Hell, I have trouble landing my grabs online with Kirby, let alone with Sonic while trying to cancel spindashes. Offline, I'm sorry to say Viper, but it honestly sounds like you play against a scrubby Sonic...
Because it is a good option in this matchup? Hell, I use Bair a lot vs G&W too, because in certain matchups, it's just the best way to go. Not using the best move for a particular situation to not be branded an average Bair spamming Kirby main is just stupid.
But.... Sonic can do the springjump shot from a farther distance than our shockwave covers...
Also, hitting him with it as he recovers, while not a bad idea, isn't as good as grabbing/inhaling him out of his UpB, since it acts like Snake's.
Meh, I've done better with ZSS than with Peach, though to be fair the Peaches I've teamed with haven't been too great at playing in teams.
Kirby is known for a pretty bad approach and by bad i mean how hard it is to approach so sonic is the one who will be approach all the time almost guarenteed
Even if Bair does come out faster what does it matter if sonic can litterally just run away from it with his amazing speed and various tactics
No offense but i use Fair all the time and unless the sonic is at 140% fair is not gonna kill lol it will get him off the stage but definitally not kill XD
You can Utilt twice at 0% on sonic and its good out of spotdoge / shield thats about it other than that if the sonic wants to escape ANY kind of kirby combo all sonic has to do is UP B
and the gonzo combo doesn't work on sonic the most you can get off against him is F-thrown to Uair then he can UB out of it
Sonic has amazing pressure game against kirby simply because kirby is too slow with limited approach options and quick stale moves making sonic a TANK in the matchup
right now your basically listing the facts
but now apply it vs a good sonic
It may look good on paper
but in game its way different.
basically i'm just gonna agree with everything said it because its what i would of said
and the only reason i teamed with a ZSS is because its Snakeee, the best zero suit samus main
in the world at this moment...
0_o
and we still placed high beating even double metaknight teams
and i'm not trying to attack you personally i'm just giving you the facts
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ It still hurts. =P ☆
]Yet you make some pretty harsh assumptions based off of what Allied said about the matchup said:
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 9,420
- Location
- Seattle
- NNID
- Camalange
- 3DS FC
- 1160-9836-5007
- Switch FC
- SW-4197-1438-9208
Rawr. I have to go to work. I'll be here later...
But just to wake you guys up, Sonic's aerial attacks come out faster than Kirby's. Sonic's Fair is an extremely fast aerial punisher, and Uair/Bair are disjointed as hell. Kirby's best bet is to generally spam Bair...Kirby wins on the ground, so Sonic will be using grabs to get Kirby back in the air.
moooar laterrr.
But just to wake you guys up, Sonic's aerial attacks come out faster than Kirby's. Sonic's Fair is an extremely fast aerial punisher, and Uair/Bair are disjointed as hell. Kirby's best bet is to generally spam Bair...Kirby wins on the ground, so Sonic will be using grabs to get Kirby back in the air.
moooar laterrr.
Lovely
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2007
- Messages
- 1,461
That is one crazily good Sonic main. O.o 
I don't know what happen on your first match, you had many opportunities to kill with Up Throw around 130ish percent since Battlefield is perfect place to kill with Up Throw. I don't know Viper, Allied might be right on this info. Though under your level of skills, he's good enough to know this match up. To be honest i think this is why we need character rediscusssion
Because imo i think Olimar has a advantage over kirby BUT WAIT BEFORE WE GET INTO IT LETS WAIT FOR THE DISCUSSION!!!
anyway if you didnt know viper Sonic when he UB's at the apex of the jump if he down airs it has no lag on landing
and sure final cutter may not have that much lag but you forget how quick sonic is at punishing
my final arguement stands
55-45 Imo
Because imo i think Olimar has a advantage over kirby BUT WAIT BEFORE WE GET INTO IT LETS WAIT FOR THE DISCUSSION!!!
anyway if you didnt know viper Sonic when he UB's at the apex of the jump if he down airs it has no lag on landing
and sure final cutter may not have that much lag but you forget how quick sonic is at punishing
my final arguement stands
55-45 Imo
Oh no no no
i meant 55-45 Sonic
50-50 at best
sorry 0_o
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2006
- Messages
- 3,118
- Location
- Lincolnshire, England.
- NNID
- Gengite
- 3DS FC
- 5456-0280-5804
I'm gonna clear up some misconceptions that I've seen.
Any Sonic worth their salt does not approach via a spin (unless it's for punishment) more than probably once a stock, twice at a push. I also saw some comment abour SHDair being an approach. If I'd been drinking milk right there, that woulda been a perfect moment for it to shoot out of my nose in laughter/astoundedness. SHDair has never ever been considered and option for approach.
The way to beat Sonic with any character is just to sit back and be patient. Don't panic and throw attacks out, that way you get beaten down hard. We mostly don't go for direct attacks, just bait for something to punish, so I'd pretend Sonic wasn't there, and once he actually decides to attack react accordingly.
Like I said, Sonic doesn't REALLY approach. Generally if he does, it'll be out of the air from a spinshot I find, which covers like 3/4s of FD in less than a second, so pretty fast. For those who don't know what one is, check back a page and look at the first Allied v Cam match, there's one during the first stock there, where he's seemingly propelled through the air out of a spincharge. Other options are ASC's (aerial spincharges) which are double hit if you're doing it right and do a fair bit of damage and lead onto other things. SH fair, bair and even the trusty grab work pretty well too.
Sonic's aerials are pretty fast too, I'm not sure the speed in relation to Kirby's though. All but dair and bair come out in 5 frames or under though, whilst uair I'm going to say is one of the most disjoint aerials in the game, so his air game shouldn't be laughed at really.
I've seen a few things about Kirby's Up B snuffing out Sonic's approaches? I can see it working from time to time, but I really wouldn't use it too often. That thing is pretty punishable, and people seem to forget just how fast Sonic is. Crossing Final Destination in 57 frames (1 second = 60 frames) is lol.
My main thought is how Kirby is going to rack up damage on Sonic.Combos successive hits aren't too much of a problem for Sonic in his get out of jail free card in the spring.
I don't know about this match-up really. It seems on paper that Kirby should be pretty dominant here, but in reality it does play quite a lot differently. I couldn't give either side the advantage.
Any Sonic worth their salt does not approach via a spin (unless it's for punishment) more than probably once a stock, twice at a push. I also saw some comment abour SHDair being an approach. If I'd been drinking milk right there, that woulda been a perfect moment for it to shoot out of my nose in laughter/astoundedness. SHDair has never ever been considered and option for approach.
The way to beat Sonic with any character is just to sit back and be patient. Don't panic and throw attacks out, that way you get beaten down hard. We mostly don't go for direct attacks, just bait for something to punish, so I'd pretend Sonic wasn't there, and once he actually decides to attack react accordingly.
Like I said, Sonic doesn't REALLY approach. Generally if he does, it'll be out of the air from a spinshot I find, which covers like 3/4s of FD in less than a second, so pretty fast. For those who don't know what one is, check back a page and look at the first Allied v Cam match, there's one during the first stock there, where he's seemingly propelled through the air out of a spincharge. Other options are ASC's (aerial spincharges) which are double hit if you're doing it right and do a fair bit of damage and lead onto other things. SH fair, bair and even the trusty grab work pretty well too.
Sonic's aerials are pretty fast too, I'm not sure the speed in relation to Kirby's though. All but dair and bair come out in 5 frames or under though, whilst uair I'm going to say is one of the most disjoint aerials in the game, so his air game shouldn't be laughed at really.
I've seen a few things about Kirby's Up B snuffing out Sonic's approaches? I can see it working from time to time, but I really wouldn't use it too often. That thing is pretty punishable, and people seem to forget just how fast Sonic is. Crossing Final Destination in 57 frames (1 second = 60 frames) is lol.
My main thought is how Kirby is going to rack up damage on Sonic.
I don't know about this match-up really. It seems on paper that Kirby should be pretty dominant here, but in reality it does play quite a lot differently. I couldn't give either side the advantage.
ROOOOY!
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2006
- Messages
- 3,118
- Location
- Lincolnshire, England.
- NNID
- Gengite
- 3DS FC
- 5456-0280-5804
It's a shame we don't really have anything on the Kirby write up to help out. We've got it as Kirby advantage though, as generally if there was any sort of doubt in numbers we'd concede. This was one of the first match-ups we looked at though over half a year ago so it probably needs revising.
I can't really recommend any stages to go on, as Sonic doesn't really have any bad stages. I'd just pick stages that boost Kirby's performance and don't worry too much about the opponent, as Sonic doesn't really have many good stages either lol. One that most Sonic's don't like is Yoshi's Island (Brawl). I personally think Sonic suffers really badly on Brinstar too, but no ones really spoken up about it before.
I can't really recommend any stages to go on, as Sonic doesn't really have any bad stages. I'd just pick stages that boost Kirby's performance and don't worry too much about the opponent, as Sonic doesn't really have many good stages either lol. One that most Sonic's don't like is Yoshi's Island (Brawl). I personally think Sonic suffers really badly on Brinstar too, but no ones really spoken up about it before.
Lovely
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2007
- Messages
- 1,461
Sonic's meta game rose up very quick, too quick in the matter in fact. I didn't even know any Sonic stood a chance on Kirby until a year later after the game came out. If Sonic had a bigger hit box and better finishing blows, I'll give Sonic the hand, but still say it's Kirby's game 55-45. 
I have played Phoenix_Dark (allisbrawl Sonic/ladder ref) many times in ladder matches, and I have lost EVERY time. My most recent attempt, after a long hiatus, was close to a win, but I still lost. Unfortunately, he's like, the only good Sonic main I've played consistently, and it's wifi. I realize that Sonic is hard to play as on wifi, but at the same time, my god it's impossible to play against him on wifi (at least as Kirby.) The simple truth is that he controls the match. He can gtfo your reach, and charge a spinny attack forever. Now, since wifi sucks, if he were to release that attack and go straight at you with it, you wouldn't be able to react in time. It would hit you. Therefore, your only option (besides like..planking?) is to predict when he'll attack and try to punish it.
Obviously, he can wait until you do something, and then HE will punish. I always figured that this would be less of a pain offline, because you can just relax until Sonic decides to attack you, but I have little Sonic experience. Hopefully on June 20th I'll be able to play Shugo/ithrowthings/whoever else plays Sonic.
Obviously, he can wait until you do something, and then HE will punish. I always figured that this would be less of a pain offline, because you can just relax until Sonic decides to attack you, but I have little Sonic experience. Hopefully on June 20th I'll be able to play Shugo/ithrowthings/whoever else plays Sonic.
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 9,420
- Location
- Seattle
- NNID
- Camalange
- 3DS FC
- 1160-9836-5007
- Switch FC
- SW-4197-1438-9208
Well, I saw someone comment my skills with Sonic, so if you think I'm good, Allied knows his ****.
I agree that it's either 50-50 or 55-45 Sonic. Those last two matches between Allied and I were kinda rushed, since we were asked to get off for tournament matches. Allied is a very good player no doubt, and I don't mean this personally, but I probably could've won that set, considering the first match was a 2 stock. Kirby isn't as hard as some think for Sonic :/
Since ROOOOY covered up the common Sonic misconceptions (thanks bro
) let me cover what Sonic WILL be doing (Allied did this very well, but I just want to post my thoughts without any direct quoting of anyone else, or correcting anyone else)
On the ground, Sonic will generally use ASC (aerial spin charge) to poke at Kirby's shield and get him in the air (ASC hits people up). I also find that RAR Bair works very well against Kirby. For those of you who don't know, Sonic's bair has a sourspot, and a giant hitbox. It covers his whole body, extends past the tip of his foot, and actually has a whole hitbox UNDERNEATH his leg, that's not even connected to his body >_> very, vey disjointed...don't underestimate.
From what I can tell, Kirby can't handle shield pressure very well from ASC and RAR Bair. Kirby's best bet is to try and grab Sonic, but even then, Kirby's follow ups don't generally work very well since Sonic can just spring away.
On the ground, I'd say it's an even matchup. Mostly since Kirby's grab range is so beast, and he has enough tools to make it harder for Sonic to get close, but even then Sonic has a great shield pressure game thanks to his ASC.
In the air, I think Sonic really excels. This matchup generally consists of Sonic getting Kirby in the air and abusing him. All of Kirby's aerials are outranged by Sonic's bair (except for maybe Kirby's bair) and Sonic's fair makes for an awesome aerial punisher. It comes out quicker than all of Kirby's aerials (I may be wrong on this, but I believe this is right) Sonic's uair is also MAD disjointed. It hits much farther than it appears to above him, and outranges almost any dair in the game (except for like...Link and G&W)
Kirby may have multiple jumps and his final cutter, but he generally moves too slowly in the air to handle Sonic. His UpB is also very prone to Bair stage spiking if not done smartly (this is pretty basic, but just a reminder). The only troublesome thing really to this matchup for Sonic is Bair, Grabgame, but most especially Kirby's ability to kill so early with Fsmash and Usmash. I honestly think Kirby's ability to kill so well keeps it from being a 60:40 matchup in Sonic's favor...
Kirby's fsmash is scary as ****, lol. Kirby's bair won't be killing in this matchup, cuz it'll probably be too stale from just trying to ward off Sonic. Kirby's hammer is suprisingly good, lol. Allied showed me that the hard way XD
So that's basically it. Kirby needs to get more grabs than Sonic, spam bair, and save his Fsmash or Usmash for a GUARANTEED kill. Sonic can live to surprisingly high percents. He's right above Mario in terms of weight, and his Fair + DownB momentum cancel is GREAT. Sonic's shouldn't be dieing till at least 140% (I'd say use Kirby's Fsmash/Usmash around 100-110%) Add that along with Sonic's amazing recovery in general, and you got yourself a tough matchup.
Inhale is a joke.
My final verdict is 55-45, Sonic. Any matchup where Sonic has near total control over the stage is a disadvantage.
I agree that it's either 50-50 or 55-45 Sonic. Those last two matches between Allied and I were kinda rushed, since we were asked to get off for tournament matches. Allied is a very good player no doubt, and I don't mean this personally, but I probably could've won that set, considering the first match was a 2 stock. Kirby isn't as hard as some think for Sonic :/
Since ROOOOY covered up the common Sonic misconceptions (thanks bro
) let me cover what Sonic WILL be doing (Allied did this very well, but I just want to post my thoughts without any direct quoting of anyone else, or correcting anyone else)On the ground, Sonic will generally use ASC (aerial spin charge) to poke at Kirby's shield and get him in the air (ASC hits people up). I also find that RAR Bair works very well against Kirby. For those of you who don't know, Sonic's bair has a sourspot, and a giant hitbox. It covers his whole body, extends past the tip of his foot, and actually has a whole hitbox UNDERNEATH his leg, that's not even connected to his body >_> very, vey disjointed...don't underestimate.
From what I can tell, Kirby can't handle shield pressure very well from ASC and RAR Bair. Kirby's best bet is to try and grab Sonic, but even then, Kirby's follow ups don't generally work very well since Sonic can just spring away.
On the ground, I'd say it's an even matchup. Mostly since Kirby's grab range is so beast, and he has enough tools to make it harder for Sonic to get close, but even then Sonic has a great shield pressure game thanks to his ASC.
In the air, I think Sonic really excels. This matchup generally consists of Sonic getting Kirby in the air and abusing him. All of Kirby's aerials are outranged by Sonic's bair (except for maybe Kirby's bair) and Sonic's fair makes for an awesome aerial punisher. It comes out quicker than all of Kirby's aerials (I may be wrong on this, but I believe this is right) Sonic's uair is also MAD disjointed. It hits much farther than it appears to above him, and outranges almost any dair in the game (except for like...Link and G&W)
Kirby may have multiple jumps and his final cutter, but he generally moves too slowly in the air to handle Sonic. His UpB is also very prone to Bair stage spiking if not done smartly (this is pretty basic, but just a reminder). The only troublesome thing really to this matchup for Sonic is Bair, Grabgame, but most especially Kirby's ability to kill so early with Fsmash and Usmash. I honestly think Kirby's ability to kill so well keeps it from being a 60:40 matchup in Sonic's favor...
Kirby's fsmash is scary as ****, lol. Kirby's bair won't be killing in this matchup, cuz it'll probably be too stale from just trying to ward off Sonic. Kirby's hammer is suprisingly good, lol. Allied showed me that the hard way XD
So that's basically it. Kirby needs to get more grabs than Sonic, spam bair, and save his Fsmash or Usmash for a GUARANTEED kill. Sonic can live to surprisingly high percents. He's right above Mario in terms of weight, and his Fair + DownB momentum cancel is GREAT. Sonic's shouldn't be dieing till at least 140% (I'd say use Kirby's Fsmash/Usmash around 100-110%) Add that along with Sonic's amazing recovery in general, and you got yourself a tough matchup.
Inhale is a joke.
My final verdict is 55-45, Sonic. Any matchup where Sonic has near total control over the stage is a disadvantage.
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 9,420
- Location
- Seattle
- NNID
- Camalange
- 3DS FC
- 1160-9836-5007
- Switch FC
- SW-4197-1438-9208
Thanks Straked. After reading over some comments, let me reiterate a few things.
Sonic doesn't charge DownB from the opposite end of the stage as a direct approach.
LOLSHDAIRLOL
Sonic's air game is better than his ground game. You may be confusing his ground game with his GRAB game, which is amazing. Most Sonic's ground games really rely on grabs, and getting people back in the air. Sonic is a VERY aerial based character. IMO, his best moves are Uthrow, Fair, Bair, Uair, and ASC >_>
So yeah, Sonic's grab game is godly, his aerial game is solid, his ground game is meh.
You know a character's ground game is weak when he relies on running shield/grab and SH/RAR aerials as an approach.
OH YEAH, also want to reiterate that his spring is amazing. It basically gets him out of any combo. If you grab Sonic at 0% and try your Gonzo combo shenans, you'll probably only get the Uair followup...
Sonic doesn't charge DownB from the opposite end of the stage as a direct approach.
LOLSHDAIRLOL
Sonic's air game is better than his ground game. You may be confusing his ground game with his GRAB game, which is amazing. Most Sonic's ground games really rely on grabs, and getting people back in the air. Sonic is a VERY aerial based character. IMO, his best moves are Uthrow, Fair, Bair, Uair, and ASC >_>
So yeah, Sonic's grab game is godly, his aerial game is solid, his ground game is meh.
You know a character's ground game is weak when he relies on running shield/grab and SH/RAR aerials as an approach.
OH YEAH, also want to reiterate that his spring is amazing. It basically gets him out of any combo. If you grab Sonic at 0% and try your Gonzo combo shenans, you'll probably only get the Uair followup...
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Traitor from my own gaming group, lol. Well, it's not my fault I'm use to Brawl Meta Knight's, Snake's, Mr. Game & Watch's, and Marth's all day everyday and not Sonic mains. =P ☆
☆ By the time you take that tourney, the match up thread would have moved to another character. And due to our lack of experience there might be mix up number again like there was on the Zero Suit Samus match up or Zelda one. ☆
Let me correct some of your naive statements, pal.
I SAW A SONIC CHARGE downb SO UR RONG.
Mario approaches with SHDair. HOW IS THAT FUNNY?!
Sonic's are game is decent.
And thanks to Spring's lack of a hitbox, you still lose because you were comboed at least once. Unlike Mario or Marth's combo braka.
The only serious thing I said was that thing above. Now we just have to wait for A1loins to update this ****.
I SAW A SONIC CHARGE downb SO UR RONG.
Mario approaches with SHDair. HOW IS THAT FUNNY?!
Sonic's are game is decent.
And thanks to Spring's lack of a hitbox, you still lose because you were comboed at least once. Unlike Mario or Marth's combo braka.
The only serious thing I said was that thing above. Now we just have to wait for A1loins to update this ****.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ No pure Kirby mains is going to debate anymore? Did a few month's back Sonic mains just made everyone run away? >.> ☆
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 9,420
- Location
- Seattle
- NNID
- Camalange
- 3DS FC
- 1160-9836-5007
- Switch FC
- SW-4197-1438-9208
What's left to debate? Is it really hard to believe Sonic could possibly have a slightly favorable matchup against a high tier?
?_?
EDIT:
Also, the new tier list placing has absolutley nothing to do with it. I've been saying this for days now, Sonic's consistently placed on the Character Rankings list around 16-20 for a solid YEAR now. He's been technically a low mid tier character for a year, people are just finally realizing it.
?_?
EDIT:
Also, the new tier list placing has absolutley nothing to do with it. I've been saying this for days now, Sonic's consistently placed on the Character Rankings list around 16-20 for a solid YEAR now. He's been technically a low mid tier character for a year, people are just finally realizing it.
Triple R
Smash Lord
I'm not totally sold on sonic having the advantage, but I'm not sure what to say.
What would a sonic do if they played a really crouch happy kirby?
What would a sonic do if they played a really crouch happy kirby?
Lord Viper
SS Rank
☆ Oh, I know the meta game doesn't really have to do with the tier list. I'm saying from my experience, I have never met a Kirby main that lost to a Sonic main... until I today from the video I saw. I still don't believe Sonic has the advantage over Kirby on this match up until I'll experience it for myself and see if I have to try to win, or just chill and relax and hold back all day long. And so far, Sonic is not one of those characters that I have to try to win with Kirby. The reason, they must not be good Sonic mains, lol. ☆
What could Kirby do out of a crouch? Utilt? Dtilt? It'd be a stalemate, and the Sonic could just Ftilt, hope to land a spring, or bait a reaction.
fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
Heh, I personally think Sonic's actually easier to deal with on Wifi, but that's just me.I have played Phoenix_Dark (allisbrawl Sonic/ladder ref) many times in ladder matches, and I have lost EVERY time. My most recent attempt, after a long hiatus, was close to a win, but I still lost. Unfortunately, he's like, the only good Sonic main I've played consistently, and it's wifi. I realize that Sonic is hard to play as on wifi, but at the same time, my god it's impossible to play against him on wifi (at least as Kirby.) The simple truth is that he controls the match. He can gtfo your reach, and charge a spinny attack forever. Now, since wifi sucks, if he were to release that attack and go straight at you with it, you wouldn't be able to react in time. It would hit you. Therefore, your only option (besides like..planking?) is to predict when he'll attack and try to punish it.
Obviously, he can wait until you do something, and then HE will punish. I always figured that this would be less of a pain offline, because you can just relax until Sonic decides to attack you, but I have little Sonic experience. Hopefully on June 20th I'll be able to play Shugo/ithrowthings/whoever else plays Sonic.
I agree with the rest of your statement though.
How would crouching help us here?
While I agree with the entire post, this is what I want to highlight. The difference in speed, especially air speed, is what allows Sonic total stage control, the ability to punish practically anything, the ability to combo us the way we usually combo others, and generally dips this into his favor.
Also, isn't Halberd considered a good Sonic stage? (I know ITT goes there alot since the ship can actually help him get KOs, especially the claw, which he has come to consider to be one of Sonic's kill moves lol.)
Basically i would like to especially thank mah nugga camalange for saving the day
and by general reading
I would dub this matchup
55:45 in Sonics Favor
imo onward to the next character that i can B*tch about XDDDDD
also thanks to fellow kirby mains for adding your input too
just remember just because thier low tier doesnt mean they aren't a threat
Captain falcon did well against high tiers in melee
But can be counter'd by low tiers
for example my friend plays roy and i play captain falcon and we go virtually even tho i know hes low tier but it doesnt matter he has a excellent matchup vs captain falcon
hopfully this matchup thread will go into the nitty griddys about each matchup so we can definitally get a true sight at where kirby is at
I think another matchup we should start because someone mentioned earlier is
ZELDA!!!
and boy will i deliver the facts if we talk about her
and by general reading
I would dub this matchup
55:45 in Sonics Favor
imo onward to the next character that i can B*tch about XDDDDD
also thanks to fellow kirby mains for adding your input too
just remember just because thier low tier doesnt mean they aren't a threat
Captain falcon did well against high tiers in melee
But can be counter'd by low tiers
for example my friend plays roy and i play captain falcon and we go virtually even tho i know hes low tier but it doesnt matter he has a excellent matchup vs captain falcon
hopfully this matchup thread will go into the nitty griddys about each matchup so we can definitally get a true sight at where kirby is at
I think another matchup we should start because someone mentioned earlier is
ZELDA!!!
and boy will i deliver the facts if we talk about her
Browny
Smash Hater
Oh em gee
well its good to see that this is true... but i never thought it would extend to high tier characters suddenly deciding a matchup goes from 60:40 their favour to a Sonic advantage >_< Sonic hasnt changed a single bit, just a number next to his name lol, I sure hope that didnt affect peoples decisions.
I totally dont agree with a Sonic advantage btw lol
well its good to see that this is true... but i never thought it would extend to high tier characters suddenly deciding a matchup goes from 60:40 their favour to a Sonic advantage >_< Sonic hasnt changed a single bit, just a number next to his name lol, I sure hope that didnt affect peoples decisions.
I totally dont agree with a Sonic advantage btw lol
Dj, would you rather we go back to underestimating Sonic and having him have no advantages?
This is pretty even...
And there's fewer and fewer people saying jab/dtilt ***** Sonic's approach, so there you go. Good stuff already.
This is pretty even...
And there's fewer and fewer people saying jab/dtilt ***** Sonic's approach, so there you go. Good stuff already.
The only reason it changed to durasticly is because now we acually have the experience and knowledge against very notable sonic pros that would wipe the floor with any us in here that means yes
even chudat would have a hard time against a sonic
XD
No one prolly bothered to acaully debate in the last matchup thread thats why it was prolly dubbed 60:40
"Yo guyz how bout dis sawnic matchup for kirbz"
"wait isnt he low tires!?"
"Yur"
"Itz gotz to be in hour favor right?"
"i guessz lets put it 60:40 lulz our favor"
"Ight it looks good on paperz"
sure if you look at the general pros + cons on paper with sonic
It looks like kirby would wipe the F*cking floor with him
But in reality they can turn out to be the most insane uphill battle for kirby
which proves also by information stated in the previous pages
that sawnic won the match
and AT ITS BEST
i would say the matchup CAN be 50:50 but even THAT is taking it too far
if you still disagree please give us some well supported information
i mean if you can do that you can sway the matchup whatever which way you want
hell we can even make it 70:30 Kirby if you want XD
i mean with the right information and backup anything can happen
but no one is really arguing with any facts but "yeah... but sawnic is low tire"
XD
<3
btw heres a interesting thing i thought about vs sonic
Stone Edgeguard
sonic's Up B doesn't automaticly grab the edge when used
which means take advantage of it and Stone near the edge
almost guarenteed to take every sonic main off guard
for an easy kill via stage spike
XD
Stone Edgeguard
sonic's Up B doesn't automaticly grab the edge when used
which means take advantage of it and Stone near the edge
almost guarenteed to take every sonic main off guard
for an easy kill via stage spike
XD
Impossible.
Kirby Stone is too good
- Status